Poll of the Day > COVID-19 ALERT: US death toll passes China's...

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Sahuagin
03/31/20 11:26:26 PM
#51:


OhhhJa posted...
The state of Texas alone can also house Italy 2 times over. And America has about 6 times the population of Italy.
I know, so when this is all said and done, USA numbers will dwarf everyone

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Sarcasthma
03/31/20 11:31:57 PM
#52:


wolfy42 posted...
I searched all over for the article I read this morning, written by an american reporter who has been stuck in Italy since this all started. He described the extreme measures, and the fact that 14 (think it was provinces he said, maybe it was cities) were quarantined and reporters could not get into them.

I can't find the stupid article, I even checked my history. It must have been through aol or something I guess.

Anyway, here is another article explaining that Italy actually has had the strongest western restrictions and response so far. It has been almost a month since they started severe SAH orders which is about 2 weeks ahead of the US.

The basic point I was trying to make is that they didn't just drop the ball or ignore things (like germany and the US have done), but actually took this seriously almost right away, about the opposite of the response in the US.
Just start linking the fucking articles, Wolfy.

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adjl
03/31/20 11:34:34 PM
#53:


OhhhJa posted...
If china is lying about it being totally contained, (they are) this is a major concern.

But is it a major concern for how the rest of the world approaches the virus? Nobody's going to be reopening their borders until well after the vast majority of their domestic cases are resolved, so it's not like we have to worry about people bringing new cases from China. Nobody has the time or resources to worry about anyone but their own victims, so it's not like we're missing out on a feasible opportunity to help out innocent Chinese victims (as nice as it might be to do so). Enough other countries have had significant numbers of cases that public health strategies can be developed based on those numbers instead of trying to emulate what China has done (which, regardless of the veracity of their numbers, wouldn't have really have been an option anyway for countries that value human rights), so there's no concern about being misled there.

At this point, COVID in China is old news. Yes, them (presumably) lying about their numbers is a problem that should be addressed in the future, but in terms of how we handle the virus right now (which is much higher priority than any punitive action), it would be hard pressed to be any less relevant. They don't matter. Yet.

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HornedLion
03/31/20 11:36:05 PM
#54:


China is full of shit!

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Smarkil
04/01/20 12:17:32 AM
#55:


Didn't someone do a report about 50k-100k urns being passed out by mortuaries in china?

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zebatov
04/01/20 2:36:41 AM
#56:


OhhhJa posted...
We still have people believing China's data lol
A lot of people believe a lot of silly crap. Like making exemptions to a travel ban to bring people to a country during a pandemic so they can fill positions when 500,000 from that country just lost their jobs is what a good leader would do.

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OniRonin
04/01/20 10:11:56 AM
#57:


this forum is so sinophobic lol. sorry your country sucks at quarantining, losers

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SunWuKung420
04/01/20 10:18:44 AM
#58:


OhhhJa posted...
SunWuKung420 posted...

What if the US numbers are also a lie?

Lmao

You won't believe one corrupt government but you'll believe another? I truly am laughing my ass off.

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OhhhJa
04/01/20 10:44:14 AM
#59:


SunWuKung420 posted...
You won't believe one corrupt government but you'll believe another? I truly am laughing my ass off.
I'm not surprised that you believe that all 50 states local governments could coordinate such a ridiculous effort. Remove the tinfoil hat. There's a reason our government doesn't have to completely censor the internet
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SunWuKung420
04/01/20 10:48:48 AM
#60:


OhhhJa posted...
I'm not surprised that you believe that all 50 states local governments could coordinate such a ridiculous effort. Remove the tinfoil hat. There's a reason our government doesn't have to completely censor the internet

Lol, you think the internet in the US isn't censored.

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OhhhJa
04/01/20 10:53:20 AM
#61:


SunWuKung420 posted...
Lol, you think the internet in the US isn't censored.
Are you comparing ours to China? You can't be that delusional. You in the craziest conspiracy theorists arent that delusional. People are at least allowed to communicate relatively freely here
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SunWuKung420
04/01/20 10:57:29 AM
#62:


OhhhJa posted...
Are you comparing ours to China? You can't be that delusional. You in the craziest conspiracy theorists arent that delusional. People are at least allowed to communicate relatively freely here

Where did I say it's as censored as China? Nowhere. But to believe that it's free of any censorship is completely naive.

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OhhhJa
04/01/20 11:03:52 AM
#63:


SunWuKung420 posted...
Where did I say it's as censored as China? Nowhere. But to believe that it's free of any censorship is completely naive.
I don't think anyone believes that. Lay off the strawmans
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SunWuKung420
04/01/20 11:07:10 AM
#64:


OhhhJa posted...
I don't think anyone believes that. Lay off the strawmans

Lol. Claims I said US censorship of the internet is as bad as China's, then claims I'm strawmanning. Fucking hilarious.

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OhhhJa
04/01/20 11:11:13 AM
#65:


SunWuKung420 posted...
Lol. Claims I said US censorship of the internet is as bad as China's, then claims I'm strawmanning. Fucking hilarious.
Mine was a valid question responding to your ridiculous strawman and argument in general. Lay off the bottle
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SunWuKung420
04/01/20 11:19:02 AM
#66:


You need to learn the definition of strawman arguments. Your response in #61 is actually a perfect example.

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adjl
04/01/20 11:22:05 AM
#67:


I mean, Trump asking states not to release unemployment numbers is an example of censoring the US' position in the crisis, so it's obviously happening to some extent. The US doesn't have nearly the level of information control that China has, though, so it's pretty safe to say that their published numbers are more credible than China's, even if they can't be trusted 100%. Honestly, no number is ever going to be 100% accurate due to the difficult-to-track nature of the pandemic and how rapidly the situation is evolving, so not being able to trust numbers 100% is nothing new.

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Blighboy
04/01/20 12:27:45 PM
#68:


The only 100% accurate number is zero, which is how heterosexual I'm feeling towards Adjl right now

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ninja_lootz
04/01/20 4:11:36 PM
#69:


adjl posted...
I mean, Trump asking states not to release unemployment numbers is an example of censoring the US' position in the crisis, so it's obviously happening to some extent. The US doesn't have nearly the level of information control that China has, though, so it's pretty safe to say that their published numbers are more credible than China's, even if they can't be trusted 100%. Honestly, no number is ever going to be 100% accurate due to the difficult-to-track nature of the pandemic and how rapidly the situation is evolving, so not being able to trust numbers 100% is nothing new.
How much is China paying you to defend them?

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Blighboy
04/01/20 4:15:41 PM
#70:


ninja_lootz posted...
How much is China paying you to defend them?
You've obviously never seen a paid China shill.

It's way, way more transparent than that. Like they make Russian trolling look like the Mona Lisa in comparison.

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xjayguyx
04/01/20 6:46:06 PM
#71:


The CCP lies worse than the Canadian Liberals.. that means they lie a LOT. I bet their CCP Virus has infected / killed 5x to 10x or more than they say. Don't believe any state run CCP news or any leftist "media" here in the west. All fake news.
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Zeus
04/07/20 2:29:52 PM
#72:


adjl posted...


Quite simply, saying the US death toll has surpassed China's just contextualizes the number that's being presented to give it a rough sense of scale. It's not a comparison that has any useful semantic value, meaning dithering over the comparison's accuracy is foolish.

So basically you're conceding that the data is fake, but suggesting that it's important we believe a result based solely on fake data?

adjl posted...
t doesn't really matter what the exact mortality rate is. We know for certain that it's high enough that we need to keep it in check,

It could be one death and we'd try to keep it in check. Remember how strongly we responded to Ebola, SARS, and Swine Flu.

adjl posted... Nobody's going to be reopening their borders until well after the vast majority of their domestic cases are resolved, so it's not like we have to worry about people bringing new cases from China.


...however that's still going to be an issue when borders re-open because the Chinese wet-markets that started this and many other recent pandemics are going to be open for business. Until China takes measures to shut those down (which is going to take substantial pressure from the international community), this is going to be a recurring problem where every 5-7 years we'll have another international health crisis originating in China.


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Aculo
04/07/20 2:35:08 PM
#73:


the US was stupidly unprepared even though we had a huge warning, and time to react. trump royally fucked us, ok?

that being said, china is a communist dictatorship and nothing they say is the truth, ok?

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adjl
04/07/20 4:13:41 PM
#74:


Zeus posted...
So basically you're conceding that the data is fake, but suggesting that it's important we believe a result based solely on fake data?

No, I'm saying that China's numbers don't matter at all in assessing the domestic situation. A point which I've explicitly stated several times in this topic. I'm really not sure why this is so hard for people to grasp.

Zeus posted...
It could be one death and we'd try to keep it in check. Remember how strongly we responded to Ebola, SARS, and Swine Flu.

There's "we need to keep this in check by employing epidemiologists to track it and throwing resources into developing treatments and vaccines in case it becomes a big deal," and then there's "we need to keep this in check by arresting people that congregate unnecessarily because otherwise the disease numbers are going to explode and hundreds of thousands of people are going to die waiting for ICU beds." This is not simply "we need to react to this because somebody died," this is a massive public health crisis, which is why the response is orders of magnitude stronger than Ebola or H1N1.

Zeus posted...
...however that's still going to be an issue when borders re-open because the Chinese wet-markets that started this and many other recent pandemics are going to be open for business. Until China takes measures to shut those down (which is going to take substantial pressure from the international community), this is going to be a recurring problem where every 5-7 years we'll have another international health crisis originating in China.

None of which has anything to do with China's current number of cases, which is the context I made that statement in. The disease will be gone from China by the time most countries actually consider allowing non-essential travel again, regardless of how much China's currently fabricating numbers. As for the new diseases that will almost certainly be arising from China in the future, maybe a certain president should be reconsidering his decision to fire the team that had been keeping tabs on emergent epidemic candidates in China, since that sounds like something that could be reeeeal useful moving forward. That international pressure you refer to should also be happening, though as I've said many times, that doesn't need to happen until after the crisis has passed.

ninja_lootz posted...
How much is China paying you to defend them?

How do you read what you quoted and possibly get "defense of China" from it?

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Lokarin
04/09/20 5:26:50 PM
#75:


US citizens in Beirut refuse to leave because it's safer there

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/middleeast/us-citizens-lebanon-coronavirus-intl/index.html

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aDirtyShisno
04/09/20 5:37:05 PM
#76:


Zeus posted...
It's a pretty well-established fact that China chose to attribute many C-Virus deaths to other causes, in addition to being very widely-suspected that they've greatly downplayed other numbers. Keep in mind that this is the same government that once claimed that China doesn't have rats.

But yeah, keep posting #FakeNews

Dont forget that also US representatives are attributing any deaths of people who tested positive for the virus as being caused by the virus, so if someone died from a car crash but they tested him at the morgue and determined he had the virus they attributed his death to the virus. In other words theyre inflating the numbers here.

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BlueStormDragoN
04/09/20 6:00:58 PM
#77:


aDirtyShisno posted...
Dont forget that also US representatives are attributing any deaths of people who tested positive for the virus as being caused by the virus, so if someone died from a car crash but they tested him at the morgue and determined he had the virus they attributed his death to the virus. In other words theyre inflating the numbers here.

They don't have enough tests for living people showing symptoms, they damn well won't test victims of a car accident.

Also, there are many who do not get tested and die home and will go uncounted. In other words the official numbers will be lagging a bit behind the actual numbers of death.

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aDirtyShisno
04/09/20 6:58:56 PM
#78:


BlueStormDragoN posted...
They don't have enough tests for living people showing symptoms, they damn well won't test victims of a car accident.

Also, there are many who do not get tested and die home and will go uncounted. In other words the official numbers will be lagging a bit behind the actual numbers of death.

While my example was both a hypothetical and a hyperbole to show the most extreme possibility its completely based off of the statement by US government officials chastising Italy and other countries for not counting all deaths of anyone who tested positive for the virus as being deaths caused by the virus.

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wolfy42
04/09/20 8:03:50 PM
#79:


What is really crazy is the extreme difference in death rates from one geological area to the next, often not that far apart.

Take italy and Germany, Italy's death rate is almost 10% Germanies per person that was infected. Italy was actually far more careful, took serous precautions right away and had a full lockdown fairly fast. By the time ITaly had a full lockdown, Germany was still having large sporting events.

Yet germany has less over all cases AND almost 1/10th the death rate per case as Italy.

This has panned out in other places as well. The explination of different strains explains some of it, but not enough, especially when the areas in question are so close to each other.

I have also heard that it kills african American's at a higher rate then others, although I have not done any real research into that.

I have heard that Italy is the most genetically diverse nation in Europe (significantly) but have no clue if that could be the cause of the higher numbers.

Whatever it is, I think serious studies should be done to determine why the numbers are so much higher there, and how to prevent such numbers in the rest of the world. If it is a different strain, then that should be identified and italy should be put under a complete and total isolation until a vacine is found, as the death toll numbers there, if they spread, would cause insane amounts of death around the world.

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Krazy_Kirby
04/09/20 8:44:08 PM
#80:


you believe china?

i have this fantastic bridge to sell you...
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