Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 288: Ventilators! Mount Up

(+) Yeah! (+)

1600 in obits, and no one stays home
COVID is about to make some bodies turn cold
Now they coughing and wheezing; its a tad bit late
Mike Pence and Donny T didnt regulate
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cough life.


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As you can see by the body count, Ive had this one in the chamber for a couple days. Sorry for the outdated total!
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JFC fuck this lying piece of shit

https://twitter.com/NY1/status/1244384421014355969

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Trump is actually correct on that.
take NY and the ventilators.

Cuomo keeps saying he needs 30,000, that Trump can decide on the 26,600 people who will die. Trump said he has more than enough right now and more are still being sent over.

Trump was right on that.
it's not 30,000 right now, it's as the crisis continues. Cuomo eventually did admit he has a couple thousand in a warehouse right now because we don't need them yet. meaning yes, they are stocked up on that, he just didn't want to admit it. if their numbers stopped, would NY be in two weeks? no. but more are coming in as well. there is no telling 26,600 who die, it's a gradual build up being worked on at the same time more are being made.

Trump needs to focus on do you have capacity now because resources are still limited. states are focusing on if they'll have capacity in a month.

PPE is likely going the same way. i hope there's nothing in a warehouse but it should be something governors get checked. if it's locked away blame the governor. and check him.

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Having ventilators in a central warehouse makes sense; you don't know which hospitals are going to run out of them first, and need to be able to distribute them as needed. Hospitals are running out of PPE right now.

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that's not the point of why i mentioned that case specifically: it was Cuomo who said Trump's gonna kill 26,600 people first. he was the one going on about not having enough, going "what am i gonna do with 400 when I need 30,000?", went on about Trump is killing people by not providing enough, when the reality was... he did, was consistently providing enough, and the amount necessary was surpassed. yet Cuomo never stopped saying the same thing until he got called out on the warehouse, which he didn't want to admit to. he had stock, he pretended he didn't.

so the qustion becomes is PPE the same way? are there supplies not being used right now that should be getting used? let's take what he said today as an example:
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1244392077393309699

somehow we're going from 10,000/20,000 masks a week to 300,000.
this is something that should be alarming. it makes sense to have an uptick obviously but this is a dramatic one that you do have to wonder... how much is actually being used? how much is being hoarded and stored by certain locations? obviously you're gonna ask for more than you need but just how many more are you asking for and how many more are being taken?

like it's undeniable that there's shortages occurring but the question is where in the chain is the shortage happening? it's doubtful it's only at the start and there should be pressure put further down on it to make sure that the rest of it gets examined too.

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I once caught a 30 inch pike with a cheeto.

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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/why-strategic-national-stockpile-isn-t-meant-solve-crisis-coronavirus-n1170376

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Social distancing until April 30th at least now.

Going to get real interesting, real quick.

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/trump-says-keeping-us-covid-19-deaths-to-100000-would-be-a-very-good-job

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KamikazePotato posted...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/trump-says-keeping-us-covid-19-deaths-to-100000-would-be-a-very-good-job

Remember when chuds were arguing "well 12000 people die from the flu each year and we don't shut down the economy for that"?

Now King Chud is saying "100k is good enough."

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It's called moving the goalposts!

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https://www.axios.com/poll-trump-biden-2020-presidential-race-51a6fa98-fa48-40b8-a15e-7aae1c78df55.html



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Gonna go ahead and predict that that will not hold given that it seems to be predicated on the idea that Trump's coronavirus response is good, something that will likely be extremely hard to continue to believe for most people in the near future

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Its really fascinating to see MAGA chuds on twitter still be like this is a fake panic caused by the media !!!! when the guy they worship is saying its serious and prolonging the social distancing for another month. Do they think Trump got tricked by the media?
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://www.axios.com/poll-trump-biden-2020-presidential-race-51a6fa98-fa48-40b8-a15e-7aae1c78df55.html

Looks like they didn't poll Trump vs Sanders in this one, but Biden is consistently outpolling Sanders in the matchup vs Trump.

Neither would win based on polling data of course despite handily winning the popular vote.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Gonna go ahead and predict that that will not hold given that it seems to be predicated on the idea that Trump's coronavirus response is good, something that will likely be extremely hard to continue to believe for most people in the near future

Incumbency advantage is very strong and people tend to support the President in a crisis regardless of how horrible his response is since they don't typically follow the news cycle but the media will always interrupt coverage for Presidential news conferences. The President basically gets to control media consumption to a significant degree.

Despite what people here would like you to believe, the average person hasn't seen much of Biden or Sanders for the last couple of weeks.

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Do you think Trump's gonna maintain this level of support if, as Fauci predicts, 100-200k people die? I can't see that. We could do better than that, but even if "only" a few tens of thousands of people die (what I think is probably the absolute best case scenario at this point), Trump is going to be rightfully hammered for wasting literally two months, punishing states for their governors not sucking up to him, etc.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Do you think Trump's gonna maintain this level of support if, as Fauci predicts, 100-200k people die? I can't see that. We could do better than that, but even if "only" a few tens of thousands of people die (what I think is probably the absolute best case scenario at this point), Trump is going to be rightfully hammered for wasting literally two months, punishing states for their governors not sucking up to him, etc.

No he isn't. And, the 100k-200k estimate is for the whole outbreak. You guys seriously have a warped idea of what this virus is.

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Well, I should amend that. Trump will be hammered by Democrats for literally anything he does. But, not by most sane nonpartisan people.

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Unless we haven't gotten the outbreak under control, the vast majority of the death will be within a month of getting it under control. If we haven't gotten it under control by November, a lot more than 200k people are probably dying.

Do you really not think it's fair to assign Trump any blame to this? Do you disagree that the testing situation was a fucking fiasco? Do you think he's somehow not responsible for that?

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Do you think Trump's gonna maintain this level of support if, as Fauci predicts, 100-200k

Maintain?

He might gain more support.

If the total deaths are less than 200K (which, you'll note, is like 1/20th of 1 percent of the total population), Trump will probably lose support for agreeing with the "experts" and intentionally causing a great depression over something so minor.

Anything less than a million deaths and "the cure was worse than the disease" will be the standard mainstream accepted view.

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not surprising to see muffin literally using the same logic antivaxxers use to argue that vaccines are unnecessary

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https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1244552865701642240

the first of many

the good news is that the economic consequences (and deaths) will probably be more equally distributed among the elites and non-elites than the deaths related to the disease

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As people I know and adore are getting this, and as people who are in my sphere die from this, I just want to remind everyone that people are stupid and you get the politicians you deserve in the end. We all, collectively, deserve Trump because a majority of Democrats can't do better than Joe fucking Biden or Hillary fucking Clinton. Just... pathetic.

I am infuriated that people are so stupid as to be talking about the economy. Here's a spoiler, the economy is made up. It's a lie. It's based on nothing. The US has more guns than everyone else, if we need to steal some gold we'll knock on someone's door.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Unless we haven't gotten the outbreak under control, the vast majority of the death will be within a month of getting it under control. If we haven't gotten it under control by November, a lot more than 200k people are probably dying.

Do you really not think it's fair to assign Trump any blame to this? Do you disagree that the testing situation was a fucking fiasco? Do you think he's somehow not responsible for that?

Well, I think we have to assign blame multiple places while people are assigning it one place.

1. Stockpile was depleted after H1N1 and not replenished. This falls onto the Obama administration and partly onto Trump's.

2. Stockpile was never intended to be a solution to a pandemic but a stopgap. We have literal confirmation of that. So, that means the stockpile was shortsighted for every administration that existed.

3. Governor Cuomo deserves some criticism for saying a federal quarantine is a declaration of war on states.

4. Various governors/past governors deserve criticism for being woefully unprepared all together. Michigan is the easiest to pick out with having only 1,000 of the nation's 200,000 ventilators. That's pretty unprepared. But, that likely falls onto past governors and not the current one.

5. China. China is not giving the most accurate information out of their nation which could have helped the world.

6. The WHO. The WHO recommended against travel bans to China. If the world had all banned travel from China, this could have died in China. The WHO chose politics in that decision to not recommend travel bans due to Chinese influence of the WHO or outright poor decision making.

7. Trump. Trump has the right idea of trying to give Americans something to look forward to. A goal. Even if it is a shifting goal. Hey! 2 weeks! We can do this! Then Hey! We already did 2 weeks! We can do it another 2! Etc. However, Trump as always is a poor communicator and sometimes has let mixed messaging seep into the public. This failure to control leaks is his administration's fault. Every president is going to spitball different ideas and behind closed doors ideas the public don't like will be spitballed. However, keeping it from the public let's the administration not get mired in that controversy.

8. Trump and Democrats. They are still playing politics. The Michigan governor is very guilty of accusing the President of purposely not sending her supplies, while the New York governor is purposely attacking him for not sending him supplies and for not doing much. Not everyone can get supplies from a stockpile that is documented as being depleted. You do nothing to calm your constituents by accusing the President of trying to kill them basically. In Michigan, it is cover for a woefully unprepared state in ventilators and attack on a President in a battleground state.

To this point, we have less than 2,500 people in ICU across America. I think it is safe to say we shouldn't be at breaking limits yet anywhere, though it is likely coming at some point.

Democrat doctors are also a worrisome thing. They are creating panic over their Twitter and Facebook videos they are releasing. We have a video of a doctor saying we aren't supposed to be a 3rd world country and what not. Well, every country in the world is going through this or will be. Not being able to magically cure a pandemic is not something that makes someone first world or third world. These videos create panic.

Trump and Democrats in general need to create solidarity. Yes, I know, it is an election year and solidarity means a Trump re-election, but at what point is the American population worth more than an election. To both Trump and Democrats in general.

We have heard hampering over and over that not voting so and so is "blood in the streets" and costing lives. The lives are literally right here and now. When will the partisan politics end?

9. CDC. Yes, their tests were faulty. They dumped them and started anew. However, we are now hearing the Chinese tests are faulty as well with 30-50% reliability and Western nations are recalling these tests over and over. I do not think Trump though had absolutely anything to do with the developing of tests nor do I think anyone had a relatively accurate test. We dumped our tests because we have standards. The Chinese just used them regardless.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Whats the excuse for fucking up the testing to the tune of wasting two months?

Trumps not the only one with blame; but if we had gotten our shit together on testing as fast as countries like South Korea we would be in a MUCH better position.

Geography is why South Korea has done so well.

They are a peninsula. With a border to one nation that is North Korea, which has a militarized border that doesn't have crossings.

If we had the same small border landwise with a military enforced border and had small numbers of airports where we could feasibly check everyone coming in and force quarantining everyone, we would be fine too.

Stop comparing to South Korea or Japan. You are comparing vastly different things. It is much easier to control spread to these countries.

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Sorry, didnt see your edit

Trump is the head of the executive branch. He is responsible for the CDC doing its job. Obviously he doesnt have the technical knowledge to be developing the test himself, but he should have been on top of making sure that they did have an accurate test made quickly and that it was widely deployed. He didnt do that at all; in fact, he downplayed the risk, and created an incentive structure to minimize acknowledging that the coronavirus was going to be a significant problem for the US. The testing fiasco is primarily his fault.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Sorry, didnt see your edit

Trump is the head of the executive branch. He is responsible for the CDC doing its job. Obviously he doesnt have the technical knowledge to be developing the test himself, but he should have been on top of making sure that they did have an accurate test made quickly and that it was widely deployed. He didnt do that at all; in fact, he downplayed the risk, and created an incentive structure to minimize acknowledging that the coronavirus was going to be a significant problem for the US. The testing fiasco is primarily his fault.

No idea how you can assess faulty tests that we are seeing were prevalent are PRIMARILY Trump's fault.

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I don't see how you can have Trump display the crisis for months, calling it a Democrat hoax and such, and not have it be his fault that the crisis was exacerbated?

When a problem shows up, you don't just look at who started it. You look at who fixes it. Obviously he didn't create the virus, but we've come a long way from "the buck stops here," don't you think?

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Peace___Frog posted...

I don't see how you can have Trump display the crisis for months, calling it a Democrat hoax and such, and not have it be his fault that the crisis was exacerbated?

When a problem shows up, you don't just look at who started it. You look at who fixes it. Obviously he didn't create the virus, but we've come a long way from "the buck stops here," don't you think?

It's a worldwide crisis. Not an American crisis.

He called the Democrats narrative of his administration's inaction is their new hoax.

Idk though. I do know that a German company said American ordered 100k ventilators. Which they supply everyone and said that order is more than they have ever made in a single year combined to all customers. Lol.

It is a supply constrained market for sure now.

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Corrik this is the only way I know how to say this but who our leaders are matter and the decisions they make do have real impacts on people's lives. This is true when they pass bills that obviously have a direct effect on the country that is written on the bill, but it's also true when they're making the the harder-to-see but just as real decisions that go into running the massive bureaucratic machine that is the government of a modernized country.

If Trump does not instruct federal agencies to act as if they were in a crisis and then the agencies fail to adequately respond to the crisis as effectively as they could have, then Trump deserves--at a minimum--just as much blame as the agencies do. (And it's entirely possible that he specifically instructed them initially to act as if they were not in a crisis, if his own initial public response is any indication.)
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it's fun seeing Corrik be the reverse of the dumb "Trump could cure cancer and you'd all be mad!" line he's always spouted

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https://twitter.com/jeffreyatucker/status/1244632646665322496

The left-libertarian crowd has solved all our problems. Love is the answer! Particularly if set to some catchy songs.

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fda-approves-emergency-use-of-malaria-pill-for-covid-19-treatment-133908197.html

Another thing the press deliberately lied about for partisan gain. How many people died because they wanted to own Trump?

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Wait, you trust the FDA now?
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No. I trust individual doctors to prescribe as appropriate.

Which was also the law a month ago. Off-label prescribing has always been allowed. This step by the FDA was only necessary to counter the various state governors who tried to ban it because Trump said it was good, therefore it must obviously be bad.

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In a statement, HHS reiterated the drug still only has anecdotal evidence to support its efficacy.

Anecdotal reports suggest that these drugs may offer some benefit in the treatment of hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Clinical trials are needed to provide scientific evidence that these treatments are effective, according to the statement.

Earlier Sunday, Novartis CEO told a German newspaper the drug was effective, saying, Pre-clinical studies in animals as well as the first data from clinical studies show that hydroxychloroquine kills the coronavirus.

President Donald Trump touted the drugs efficacy based on the anecdotes, meanwhile Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, has cautioned against promoting unproven medical treatments.

I don't understand how this is any different than what was being said before.

Edit: Oh, didn't see post 41. That isn't the media, that is specific politicians you have an issue with, then.

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The specific politicians were reacting to media reports. The media lies about everything. They are killing us on purpose.

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SmartMuffin posted...

The media lies about everything. They are killing us on purpose.

i've seen a lot of hysterical overreactions to the virus but this must be the worst one

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i've seen a lot of hysterical overreactions to the virus but this must be the worst one

You apparently haven't seen Ron Paul's hot takes

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SmartMuffin posted...

The specific politicians were reacting to media reports. The media lies about everything. They are killing us on purpose.

killing your customers on purpose seems like a bad business model

what are they getting out of this? are they just in league with Satan or something?
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what are they getting out of this?

Gambling that if they successfully bring about a totalitarian state, they will gain more in status/prestige/wealth than everyone else.

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Can you give us a detailed fanfic of how you get from point a to point b?

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ok yes that sounds very reasonable
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How is what you're accusing the media of doing...different from what you've spent this topic doing, Smuffin? If you push for a totalitarian states (run by dictator Trump), you stand to gain wealth and power as a straight, white, Christian male (more power, since obviously you're well-off enough to whine about conspiracy theories and how the tanking stock market is hurting you). So are you just an evil sycophant, trying to kill people off?

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

We all, collectively, deserve Trump because a majority of Democrats can't do better than Joe fucking Biden or Hillary fucking Clinton. Just... pathetic.

No, I'd say it's more because some people just weren't "inspired" enough by Clinton to cast the only vote that could prevent this outcome.

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