Board 8 > Survivor: Winners at War Topic 2: Kill It With Fire (Tokens)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Okay here's a question I had when it first aired, then I rationalized it away but with the Yul elim I'm wondering about this again.

In episode 5, they spent a few (valuable) minutes of showtime having Yul recount the story of Penner and his wife, the ALS troubles, he cried a bit and was consoled and showed a lot of emotion recounting their struggles.

And I remember at the time thinking, ah... Jonathan Penner is one of my favourite characters of all time so it's nice to see him (at least in flashback form), and it is heartbreaking to hear about their story, but why include this in the episode? It just felt like it came out of nowhere.

So then I rationalized it as, well, winners usually get some kind of character building/emotional moments so maybe this is for Yul. Even if it's not a personal emotional moment, it was still a moment for him, so fair enough.

....and now he's gone so I'm back to wondering why it was included again!

Underleveled posted...

First, I'm beginning to wonder if there is only one EoE returnee this season, be it at the merge or endgame. The reason is that with two returnees, we'd still have to have 7 boots in the next 5 episodes, which would just be nuts, especially since we've already had one double boot episode. Also the preview didn't tease a return challenge, and since y'all like to consider that evidence that it isn't happening I guess it's not.

There are screenshots of an 8-person challenge out there, which (with Sandra gone) indicates an immediate return challenge - unless it's the final 8 IC, of course.

And there are 6 episodes left before the finale, not 5. So the usual post-merge double boot round would be enough.

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bwburke94 posted...

And there are 6 episodes left before the finale, not 5. So the usual post-merge double boot round would be enough.

Did the premiere not count as two episodes? Because that would add a fifteenth episode for the first time in many years.

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Looks like it - thefutoncritic has the finale airing May 20 which means 7 more eps before finale+reunion

Re: Yul, well it was for an important cause and they had tweets ready to ask people to donate and clips and stuff, so it wasnt necessarily for Yul, only.

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bwburke94 posted...

There are screenshots of an 8-person challenge out there, which (with Sandra gone) indicates an immediate return challenge - unless it's the final 8 IC, of course.

And there are 6 episodes left before the finale, not 5. So the usual post-merge double boot round would be enough.

Yeah, it's either the return challenge or they're doing something really weird where it's 3 teams of 2 and 5 singles in a reward challenge.

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Re: Screenshots, the 8 person challenge was in the "next time on survivor", so im guessing based on the timing of the clip (why would that be something they will mislead us on?) someones returning next week.

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I see you there peridiam

Also great quiz this week on the b&b, great topic

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I just finisher Big Brother 13. It ended better than I thought. It all kind of lived and died with how much I could stand Rachel. It was bad early on, it started getting good for the VETERAN civil war and it got MUCH better when Brendan got evicted the second time. I could stand Rachel and it was like she was a completely different player.

That being said, the player vote and the "return of the duo twist" seem reaaaaally fishy. Like this is the kind of stuff that makes people think BB rigs but nevertheless here are my rankings for anyone that cares:

Season Ranking
7 > 2 > 4 > 10 > 18 > 12 > 20 > 8 > 11 > 13 > 6 > 3 > 5 > 19 >= 9

Player Ranking (this is my order of favorite. one person/group per season)
Dr. Will (2) > Danielle (3) > Enzo (12) > Dream Team aka Three Stooges (4) > The Renegades (10) > Victor/Paul(18) > Cliff (21) > Drew (5) > Eric (8) > Kaycee (20) > Jordan(13) > Jeff/Jordan/Kevin(11) > Josh(19) > Adam(9) > Chicken George (7) > Janelle/James/Howie (6)

Winners (in terms of game, then likeable)
Will == Dan > Drew > Maggie > Jackson > Dick > Nicole > Boogey > Hayden > Jun > Kaycee > Rachel > Jordan > Adam > Josh > Lisa

Will > Dan > Drew >Hayden > Kaycee > Jordan > Boogey > Josh > Nicole > Rachel > Jackson > Adam > Dick > Lisa > Maggie > Jun
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GTM posted...

I see you there peridiam

Also great quiz this week on the b&b, great topic

thanks x2

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eaed I'm surprised to see Drew so high on both categories. I'm rewatching BB5 now and just reached the F4, and gosh... Drew is furniture in every scene. His confessionals are so basic. I also definitely wouldn't have him above Maggie, Boogie, Hayden, or Jun in the gameplay department. I think he can be above the rest though.

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Peridiam posted...

eaed I'm surprised to see Drew so high on both categories. I'm rewatching BB5 now and just reached the F4, and gosh... Drew is furniture in every scene. His confessionals are so basic. I also definitely wouldn't have him above Maggie, Boogie, Hayden, or Jun in the gameplay department. I think he can be above the rest though.

I came out of it really high on Drew. I may adjust now, at the time he felt like a beast and I felt like I related to him. I think you're right on the game play.

EDIT: I thought he did a perfect amount of floating to be effective plus I remember a challenge prowess there too. See, now I am thinking I did this too slow because I really don't remember much from that season now that we mention it.

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IIRC, Drew was pretty much never in danger all season. He was in with the Horsemen when they held power the first few weeks, but then when the house turned against them, he easily flipped into the new majority and avoided being targeted, even when Holly, Scott and Jase all went out in a row. He won challenges when he needed to at the end as well. He's not like, a mastermind player, but he still played extremely strong, despite being overlooked as BB5 is kind of the black sheep of BB2-7.

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Inviso posted...

IIRC, Drew was pretty much never in danger all season. He was in with the Horsemen when they held power the first few weeks, but then when the house turned against them, he easily flipped into the new majority and avoided being targeted, even when Holly, Scott and Jase all went out in a row. He won challenges when he needed to at the end as well. He's not like, a mastermind player, but he still played extremely strong, despite being overlooked as BB5 is kind of the black sheep of BB2-7.

That sounds right. So I probably over-hyped him in my head. So he's good but not great tier, definitely shouldn't be third behind Will and Dan. I know a lot of the people I had behind him I thought they had a "collective" issue where so many of them worked in groups that it was hard to determine who was the major driving force in their alliances. That was my big knock on Boogey and Hayden.

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From what I've been able to glean, Drew's game is a combination of skill (stringing along Diane, forming secret alliances w/ twins, knowing when to jump ship), and circumstance, a bit like Jun in a way, but imo a little less deliberate. His Holly nom was questionable, and even though it worked out for him, it buried his initial alliance and moved him closer toward getting evicted sooner than later. He legit cried and regretted his decision to nom Holly after the fact, but then correctly pivoted away from the 4H in between the veto ceremony and her eviction, eventually rallying to keep Adria. He created a situation that wasn't to his favor and then made lemonade out of that same lemon. Probably his best move, to re-align with the house and save Adria (who he would later work with at a key moment in the season).

He had an immaculate social game, that's for sure. Was picked in every veto (at a time when you had to get picked to play). Was only nominated once, at the F5. I do think he's screwed there, at F5, if he or Diane don't win veto. Thankfully for him the veto comp was incredibly easy to manipulate to his favor.

That said, unlike with the four winners I mentioned earlier, I think Drew often kinda fell backwards into a good position. Like he really struggled with his first HOH and it entirely worked to his favor, immensely so by the end of the week, but it wasn't intentional. The house looked at him like a good guy who was in with the wrong crowd, but he never seemed to desire to be seen that way. He just had a lot of trouble making a decision, was torn, struggled, and everyone felt bad for him. Which is great for him, but also doesn't leave me impressed. Drew had a mixture of being in alliances that didn't last long and then floating with the power of the house week to week. He was regularly at the bottom of the power structure but was always saved for last, until it was too late for everyone else.

I really hope I can get around to making a video about him this summer. Also Diane. BB5 is underrated.


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I also went back and listened to the RHAPpy hour BB winner rankings with Taran/Brent/etc from 2015 and they had Drew at #11 of 16 (right after BB17 aired). I think he was a little low, as I'd have him above Lisa, at the very least, and probably above the BB17 winner too.

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So, how do you split credit between Boogie and Will? That has always been my issue with Boogie's win, I thought it felt more like Will's game to lose and then Boogie picked up the pieces.

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Without the live feeds to fall back on, I mostly just rely on what's on the screen. A large majority of BB7 is both Will & Boogie maneuvering together, and when it's clear they're both working en tandem, they both get credit.

For example, during week 3, Will is nominated alongside Jase. Will asks Boogie to ensure they have the votes, and Boogie has a great scene where he's in the bathtub with Janelle and Erika working them over. Clearly it was Will's zany idea to get himself nominated to reduce his threat level, but we also see Boogie putting in the work to win over other players. Will obviously wins over Janelle hard too (though this becomes clear in week 4).

Boogie also has a great moment where he forces George to take out Howie in the double eviction on a spur-of-the-moment decision, where George was targeting Will and was securing votes to get him out. I'm not sure Will does get voted out here (I'd actually bank on him staying), but Boogie still manages to get his way all on his own. Same thing will keeping Will off the block at the F6 when Erika wins HOH. Erika wanted to nominate Will but Boogie convinced her not to, and instead she turned her sights on Janelle and Danielle. Boogie manages to both save his showmance and his bromance several times all on his own, which ultimately keep him insulated really well all season. Mind you, so does Will.

Will plays a superior game between the two for many more reasons, and his game is the one that dominates the airtime no doubt, but Boogie deserves credit for much of what CT does too, as it was a two-man operation all season. So I don't really split the credit so much as reward them both for what they accomplish together (which is a lot).

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That's a really fair argument because that just wasn't how I saw it but it makes sense. I guess Boogie's leg work didn't stick with me.

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Also remember that CT were dominating so hard that Boogie won the coup d'etat (on his own) and was just able to sit on it.

They were pretty much the perfect reality show alliance, and covered the others' weaknesses. Plus, everyone was part of CT at some point, making secret ninja moves!

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Yeah, forgot about the coup. "I'll make sure George understands you reap what you sow."

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Now, I feel like I need to rewatch All-Stars which is fine because it was my favorite
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I have always loved George's goofy "The Chill is in the Town" catchphrase when he thinks he's in ChillTown

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eaedwards6400 posted...

Now, I feel like I need to rewatch All-Stars which is fine because it was my favorite

allstars is such an amazing season, imo it is the best of all time edging out 10 a bit

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also i am enjoying this season of survivor although the recent boots have been very disappointing after the first 3 were all not very exciting players. most of the greatest ever have been taken out while we have the dregs of the season like nick and wendell and adam left.

pulling for tony/denise/kim at this point while appreciating how sophie and jeremy are maneuvering

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What exactly has you rooting for Kim? In hindsight she was not very interesting in her first season and even less so in this one.

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The only reason Kim isn't by far the blandest winner is because Tommy won last season. It's really interesting to see people hate on Tommy last season root for Kim this season.
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I've been anti-Kim ever since her first season. That won't change now.

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Kim is like the Michael Bluth of the family. I'm here for that.

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Kim is more of a Tom than a Tommy. Kim's win was bland because she was so dominant. Tommy's was bland because he was so average.

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I find Kim a better narrator than Tommy, and her game was A+. Seeing her play from the bottom this time has been interesting since her cast connections are obviously weaker and she's been hanging from a thread, and I admit a part of me was fawning over her when she mentioned her options last episode. She was so gamebotty that in retrospect it circled around to hilarious. I'm not even ashamed to admit I have incorporated "keeping my options open" to my daily vernacular.

I think a more apt comparison to Tommy are people like WA Tyler or even Michael Yerger, although I understand the latter has fans for some reason.

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Ugh. Come ON, Amber. Why did you even come out here if you were only gonna be Rob's plus one?

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I like the merge buffs.

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Yeah, its a fun color, aka not black

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Yul didn't even have a shot at an advantage did he

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Fucking SHIT. Of course.

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Not my ideal result but better than Rob.

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Anyway the fabled F3 I saw just days after filming was done is officially dead as two of them are still on Edge, so i can officially participate in winner predix.

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Underleveled posted...

Not my ideal result but better than Rob.

This is true. But like, 7th of 8 beating out 8th of 8 for me is hardly something to be excited about.

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hell yeah, best result in someone to comeback imo aside from parvati

and kim is an amazing player and a very rational person kinda like yul, she just doesnt get the same love for whatever reason.

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how can anyone not like tyson? wtf

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Inviso posted...

This is true. But like, 7th of 8 beating out 8th of 8 for me is hardly something to be excited about.

Lmao visopinions.

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andel posted...

how can anyone not like tyson? wtf

We have Yul/Danni/Natalie, all of whom are one-time players. You have Amber/Ethan, who haven't played since All-Stars. And then you have fourth-timers Parvati/Tyson, and FIFTH-timer Rob, and I just don't want to watch them dominate the screentime again.

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Inviso posted...

We have Yul/Danni/Natalie, all of whom are one-time players. You have Amber/Ethan, who haven't played since All-Stars. And then you have fourth-timers Parvati/Tyson, and FIFTH-timer Rob, and I just don't want to watch them dominate the screentime again.

danni/amber are garbage tier though and natalie is boring. yul/parvati/tyson were the ones i really wanted back

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You think NATALIE is boring, but Yul is worth seeing a second time?

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Inviso posted...

You think NATALIE is boring, but Yul is worth seeing a second time?

yul is an amazing player who plays a very entertaining game. anyone super strategic is a boon

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Yul is boring as fuck and plays like a robot.

Natalie played a super strategic game too, and she did it with sass and personality.

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andel posted...

yul is an amazing player who plays a very entertaining game. anyone super strategic is a boon

And this is where the disconnect is and why many of you don't "get" mine and Inviso's opinions.

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augh

livid that Yul and parvati are not here for this challenge

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Inviso posted...

Yul is boring as fuck and plays like a robot.

Natalie played a super strategic game too, and she did it with sass and personality.

ehh she played a good game but not nearly the level of yul or kim tbh

i forgot you are the guy that hates good players in bb and survivor though and stans the lesser players every time

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