Board 8 > Iceman Ranks Every Tales Series Party Member w/Writeups & Prediction Prizes

(+) Yeah! (+)

Every party member from a game thats been released in the US, anyway.

Despite being a regular visitor of Board 8 for more than five years now and following umpteen ranking topics during that time, Ive never done one myself. But that changes now! And to ease myself in, I decided on a subject that necessitated playing through 14 JRPGs that bottom out at 40 hours for a thorough run and that are so famously polarizing in pretty much every way that every single spot on this list, positive or negative, is inevitably going to piss somebody off. So to make sure everyone still has some fun with it no matter what, Im gonna throw in a prediction contest - with a prize!

To join, just make your guess at the Top 10. You can do that here in the topic or through a PM if you dont want others to meta-pick; either way is fine with me, but if you do go the PM route Id recommend you to make a post and let me know about it anyway because PMs seem to be getting eaten sometimes on GFAQs these days. Scoring will work based on how far off you are for the individual 10 characters. If you put Character A in the #5 spot and his actual spot ends up being #2, youll get 3 points. If youre way off and his actual spot is, say, #46, youll get 41 points. Lowest total score wins. In the unlikely event of a tie, whoever got the higher number of Top 10 characters correct will take it, and if that still doesnt solve it, well go to whoever got the most positions exactly right.

The winner gets a $25 Steam gift card. If you somehow manage to get every Top 10 character, Ill bump it to $40. If youve hacked into my computer and have the whole Top 10 in the exact correct order, Ill go to $50. What do you have to lose, right?

The ranking will start next Tuesday, so predictions will close on Monday, February 24th at 11:59 PM EST. I will post the complete list of the 95 characters youre working with in the next post just to make sure theres no confusion about who may or may not qualify.

Just a couple other things to note:

• Yes, I really did do a fresh playthrough of every one of these with this list in mind. I did every sidequest, saw every scene, watched every skit, even read the damn in-game synopses where applicable. If theres a line of dialogue in a game, I saw it. So while I can almost guarantee everyone reading is going to disagree strongly with at least one thing on this ranking, trust me, its not because I didnt do my due diligence in putting it together. I also did the writeups immediately after finishing the respective games to make sure everything was fresh in my mind. That also means this project has no chance of joining the long ranks of unfinished ones on this board; everythings done, I just have to post it. Hooray!
• I tried to avoid talking about spoilers as best I could, but theyre sometimes necessary. So I will try to use spoiler tags for specific plot events when theyre needed - you can still follow along with the ranking even if theres games you plan to get to in the future. Plus, as these writeups are generally fairly long, Im including a TL;DR at the end of all of them, and all of those will essentially be spoiler-free.
• I know theres fan translations out there for some of the other games in the series, but I wanted to keep things official or else Id be opening up a whole can of worms with translation differences (both in fan works and in official releases) and so forth. The exception is that I used the PSX version of Phantasia for reasons that are probably obvious to series fans and that I dont feel the need to go over unless someones really confused by the decision.
• I didnt take into account any supplemental material. The manga one-shots for Abyss, the Leia novel thing for Xillia, the Zestiria anime - those sorts of things werent included in my rankings. Even I have to draw the line somewhere.

That should about cover everything, but if anything about the prediction contest is unclear just ask. Hope yall enjoy.

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Phantasia (6)
Arche Klein
Chester Burklight
Claus F. Lester
Cress Albane
Mint Adenade
Suzu Fujibayashi

Destiny (9)
Bruiser Khang
Chelsea Torn
Garr Kelvin
Karyl Sheeden
Leon Magnus
Mary Argent
Philia Felice
Rutee Katrea
Stahn Aileron

Eternia (7)
Chat
Farah Oersted
Keele Zeibel
Max
Meredy
Rassius Luine
Reid Hershel

Symphonia/Symphonia 2 (11)
Colette Brunel
Emil Castagnier
Genis Sage
Kratos Aurion
Lloyd Irving
Marta Lualdi
Presea Combatir
Raine Sage
Regal Bryant
Sheena Fujibayashi
Zelos Wilder

Legendia (8)
Chloe Valens
Grune
Jay
Moses Sandor
Norma Beatty
Senel Coolidge
Shirley Fennes
Will Raynard

Abyss (6)
Anise Tatlin
Guy Cecil
Jade Curtiss
Luke fon Fabre
Natalia Luzu Kimlasca-Lanvaldear
Tear Grants

Vesperia (9)
Estellise Sidos Heurassein
Flynn Scifo
Judith
Karol Capel
Patty Fleur
Raven
Repede
Rita Mordio
Yuri Lowell

Hearts (8)
Beryl Benito
Chalcedony Akerman
Gall Gruner
Hisui Hearts
Ines Lorenzen
Kohaku Hearts
Kor Meteor
Kunzite

Graces (7)
Asbel Lhant
Cheria Barnes
Hubert Oswell
Malik Caesar
Pascal
Richard Barona
Sophie

Xillia/Xillia 2 (10)
Alvin
Elize Lutus
Fractured Milla
Gaius
Jude Mathis
Leia Rolando
Ludger Kresnik
Milla Maxwell
Muzet
Rowen Ilbert

Zestiria (8)
Alisha Diphda
Dezel
Edna
Lailah
Mikleo
Rose
Sorey
Zaveid

Berseria (6)
Eizen
Eleanor Hume
Laphicet
Magilou
Rokurou Rangetsu
Velvet Crowe


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tag
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Ya go my Berseria crew.

Didn't like Zestiria much overall but I did like the party.

Vesperia and Symphonia are the only others I've played and it's been too long to accurately rate them.

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Did the prediction thing.

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I really want to read this but I've only played a few tales :|

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Tag!

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MegamanX posted...

I really want to read this but I've only played a few tales :|

Well, like I said, I'll be spoiler tagging whenever necessary, so if that's what you're concerned about I wouldn't say it's a big issue. A few writeups might end up looking like classified government documents, but they're the minority.

Alternatively, I figure I'll be adding to this in the future as more games in the series come out, so you could always just catch up down the line once you've played more of the entries or something if you like.

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That is a wild amount of gaming specifically for the sake of this topic. Tag, I legitimately can't wait to read through this.

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each and every one of my predictions is gonna be wrong but I did it

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Tag. Won't do any predictions and have only played 4 of the games, but I'm interested in the Berseria write-ups in particular.
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1. Jade Curtiss

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Midweek afternoon bump. Have gotten both predictions sent to me thus far.

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can i do predictions just for fun? not in it for prizes just the love of the game.

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Tag

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Oh boy.

I'm not ready for predictions so I won't try to do any of that, but I'll follow this regardless.

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xp1337 posted...

can i do predictions just for fun? not in it for prizes just the love of the game.

Sure! I just figured I'd include the prizes to encourage participation.

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1) tear grants
2) luke fon fabre

i bet

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I know nothing about you so just random guess

1. Velvet Crowe
2. Yuri Lowell
3. Tear Grants
4. Kratos Aurion
5. Jade Curtis
6. Milla Maxwell
7. Magilou
8. Zelos Wilder
9. Arche Klein (just for the memes)
10. Luke fon Fabre

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Also Shirley better be near the bottom.

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Tag

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NBIceman posted...

Sure! I just figured I'd include the prizes to encourage participation.

excellent

1. Luke fon Fabre
2. Velvet Crowe
3. Eleanor Hume
4. Jade Curtiss
5. Fractured Milla (Xillia 2)
6. Gaius
7. Yuri Lowell
8. Tear Grants
9. Zelos Wilder
10. Edna

just missing the top 10: Magilou, Guy Cecil, Eizen, Emil Castagnier, Zaveid, Future Arc!Richard Barona (okay this last one is both not serious but also completely serious)

totally ignored the games i haven't played because clearly they don't exist

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Bump for the weekend crowd.

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Berseria only has 6 party members huh? Might be a good sign for this series!

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looking at this list I really like the Xillia 1 and zestiria cast. Boy I hate the hearts cast

Sad innocence left off

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Did you leave Asch off for spoiler reasons? I really don't see any other reason to leave him off when you've got people like Alisha on the list.

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Mewtwo59 posted...

Did you leave Asch off for spoiler reasons? I really don't see any other reason to leave him off when you've got people like Alisha on the list.

He's far more important in his role as a supporting character than as a party member. Compared to his time spent in the party, he spends way more time off doing his own thing as a driving force behind some of the plot and roughly an equal amount of time being an outright enemy.

Alisha probably gets about the same screen time as a party member as he does (although I do think she has him beat by a little bit), but the difference is that when she's not in the party she basically doesn't exist in Zestiria. Even when something happens in relation to her she rarely actually appears, she's just mentioned.

In other words, for these sorts of fringe cases, I basically made my decision based on whether their most important role story-wise was as a party member or something else. I feel like if I'd included Asch, I'd have had to include Richter too, and that definitely didn't seem right.

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Little over 9 hours left to get predictions in for those who are interested before we get going tomorrow.

Have four lists in so far and one of those isn't interested in the prize, so quantity of competition is light! Even if you're just guessing randomly you never know!

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1. Luke fon Fabre
2. Tear Grants
3. Yuri Lowell
4. Velvet Crowe
5. Zelos Wilder
6. Kratos Aurion
7. Jade Curtiss
8. Stahn Aileron
9. Guy Cecil
10. Ludger Kresnik

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NBIceman posted...

Even if you're just guessing randomly you never know!

You know I'll take you up on that!

These hot predictions brought to you by RNG:

1. Will Raynard
2. Jay
3. Chat
4. Grune
5. Hubert Oswell
6. Karol Capel
7. Edna
8. Sorey
9. Milla Maxwell
10. Genis Sage

I'd like to thank the academy.
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Alrighty, let's get this show on the road. Best of luck to everyone that predicted - if you want to follow along with how you're doing, just use the link below. I'll be updating it as characters drop.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1P2noR8HDHRRGp0f2HtfuRstIxgu8vE2LECz5QNbBrGM/edit?usp=sharing

#95 coming shortly.

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I've only played Symphonia, and that was back when it came out. What's the best Tales game to play after it?

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You got your wish, Alanna.

#95 - Shirley Fennes (Legendia)
The power to annihilate people is not something Id wish on anyone.

What a spectacularly horrible excuse for a character, let alone a main heroine.

Its hard to know where to start with Shirley. Maybe that ear-bleeding squeak that she calls a voice? Its been months since my last playthrough of this game and I can still hear her shouting Senel! in my head. And it was intentionally that way! It gets deeper when she turns evil, so the capacity to speak in a way that doesnt have me cringing every time her mouth opens is there. This was actual voice direction.

Or how about the fact that her entire role for the first three-quarters of the main story is to get kidnapped over and over and over? And then it even happens again in the Character Quests when shes supposed to not be deadweight anymore. Its like a running gag except Im quite sure it wasnt meant to be anything of the sort.

Really, though, none of that matters. What matters is that shes the only playable character in the series who tries to commit genocide. She tries to tell Senel she loves him roughly fifteen minutes after Stella dies, and when he (very reasonably) shuts her down, she decides life isnt worth living and no one cares for her, despite the fact that she had a group of close to a dozen people risking their lives repeatedly to save her. Ive seen people try to defend her by saying that the genocide part doesnt come until later, because she didnt really remember what becoming the Merines meant until it was too late. And technically, yeah, thats true. The genocide part comes when Maurits, who is very obviously evil at this point given that hes had no less than three complete monologues IN HER PRESENCE explaining in great detail his desire to rid the world of Orerines, somehow manipulates her into believing Senel never cared about her in any capacity. Thats equally as stupid and I dont understand how its supposed to make her look any better. The truly amazing part comes in the Character Quests where she claims that Fenimore was her first friend. Not the guy who spent years putting his life on the line to protect her. No, the racist girl that spent most of her screentime screaming at Shirley for daring to associate with that guy. Its maddening.

They try to wrap her up in this adorable little bow by giving her a cutesy design and making her all dorky in the Character Quests and making her the Oh, I just want to be everyones friend and if we just talk through our differences Im sure well get along girl and giving her an eventual bond with the other girls, and it just doesnt work. Too much damage has been done. Sure, shes not a jilted goddess on the edge of sanity anymore, but she is still a clingy, jealous girl for no good reason. And everybody treats her like shes amazing. Like, why is she the one talking Chloe off the ledge during Chloes Quest? Chloe barely knows her at that point. Their relationship is somewhat heartwarming by the end, but the lead-up feels so forced, because everything with Shirley feels forced.

And shes not even good in battle. Casters are worse than melee fighters in Legendia to begin with, and the attempt to make her a hybrid just ensured that she was especially poor. Most of her spells are already known by the other mages in the party and she doesnt learn unique ones until veeeery late in the Character Quests.

She contributes nothing. The party is better without her in it, but its not like shes a good supporting character or villain, either. She plays so many roles throughout Legendia and theyre all terrible. Her sister gets 2% of the screen time that she does and still manages to be a hundred times more interesting. Shirley is a truly deserving last-place finisher.

TL;DR: Laughable main heroine. Laughable villain. Laughable character in general. I stopped wanting to rescue her before too long. Makes almost every scene shes in worse. Awful in every possible respect.

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Anagram posted...

I've only played Symphonia, and that was back when it came out. What's the best Tales game to play after it?

Different people will tell you different things, but I generally recommend Vesperia. Prevailing opinion nowadays is that it hasn't aged super well, and to be honest it never hit the highs for me that it did for a lot of people even in its heyday, but it's kind of the prototypical Tales game in a lot of ways and therefore acts as a pretty good litmus test for whether you'd enjoy more games in the series. It's nice and accessible too now that it's out on current-gen systems, and it's pretty similar to Symphonia in general.

Berseria is also a super solid choice, and I think most would agree at this point that it's probably a better game overall than Vesperia. It's just also not quite as indicative of the rest of the franchise, and even though it's been a good while since you played Symphonia it might be kind of a whiplash for you.

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I didn't realize any of them were out on Steam, that's actually helpful to me, thanks.

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I don't know anything about the game but I have to assume that Legendia characters dropping out this early is bad news for my prediction chances.

Also that writeup kind of makes me want to play the game...
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pyresword posted...

Also that writeup kind of makes me want to play the game...

Legendia may be second only to Abyss in terms of its status as a polarizing Tales game, and honestly its cast might even eclipse it on that point as a lot of people have problems with Abyss that have nothing to do with the characters. It's something of a black sheep for the series with a lot of qualities that make it very unlike the rest of the franchise, which makes it really interesting. Sometimes in good ways, other times in bad ways.

In other words, I'd discourage formulating an opinion on it based solely off the last place finisher on this ranking!

#94 - Rose (Zestiria)
But know this, Sorey: if the Shepherd turns out to be a force for evil that leads people astray, we wont hesitate to kill you. Remember that.

I sure hope no one was enjoying the early-game story or worldbuilding or lore of Zestiria too much their first time through the game, because if you were, I imagine you didnt appreciate it too much when Rose stepped into her starring role and threw all of it out the window. There arent many characters that Im familiar with in all of fiction that are given more narrative leeway than she is. Everything kowtows to her simply because shes Rose, and it makes everything a mess.

First of all, vigilantes (which is exactly what she is, no matter how much Zestiria tries to dress it up) lose all of their intrigue when theyre portrayed as being completely in the right, and thats exactly how shes presented. Killing is the wrong way to solve things, Zestiria says, except when its Rose, because she investigates her targets and shes pure of heart. Its really made out to be that simple. She believes so fervently in what she does that shes able to stay free of malevolence. Actually, shes so pure that she even keeps Dezel from becoming a hellion. Other true believers in the game become hellions for literally that exact same reason, but the rules need not apply here. Because if they did, theyd lose the Fiction Writing 101 - How to Write a Foil dynamic where Sorey gives life and she takes it. Is that not just the most incredible and deep thing youve ever heard? How come the other Scattered Bones are free of malevolence, too? Are they also all pure of heart? Purity of heart must not be too special or rare. Or is Rose just so gosh-darned pure that she is able to bear all their sins herself?

The term Mary Sue gets erroneously thrown around a lot, and I often think its especially prevalent among uninformed fans of this series, but it fits Rose perfectly. Everything she does works out for her, her actions dont have consequences, and the rest of the party all treats her as infallible. She would never tell a lie, says Lailah of the woman that masquerades as a merchant to run an assassins guild. Dezel and Zaveid wanting to kill hellions is treated as some incredible sin, but the girl out there killing people is so wonderfully suited to being a Squire that they simply cant fall over themselves enough to recommend that Sorey recruit her. They even claim Rose is the one that makes Sorey more proactive, despite the fact that Lailah chewed him out for being too proactive when the journey began. Its all just so awkward and forced and nonsensical.

The only reason she managed to finish above Shirley is that there are actually a couple of good aspects to her. I dont completely hate her personality - she can approach being funny at times - and I actually quite like her design, particularly the Sparrowfeather outfit. Neither of those things even come close to making her anything other than an absolute disaster, and it probably says more about how terrible Shirley is than anything, but down here on the trash heap you gotta take what you can get.

TL;DR: Equal parts a vehicle for moving the plot along when that dang malevolence just gets too convoluted to work around otherwise and an inclusion that makes the plot an incomprehensible conglomeration of contradictions in the first place. We got this failure of a character just because Baba wanted to bang her voice actor and I don't think I'll ever quite be able to completely wrap my head around that.

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Holy crap reading that write up was downright cathartic. Rose is the most bafflingly hypocritical character I've ever seen in a work of fiction. I legit almost quit the game in pure frustration when she would act exactly the same as the villains and not only dodge any consequences but be celebrated by the party for being so awesome.

In any well written story, Rose's rampant hypocrisy would be thoroughly explored, but Zestiria seems to legitimately try to say she's not even in the wrong, auuuuugh what an awful character.

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Hahaha, yeah, I definitely stopped caring at all about the story once Rose became a fixture. Pre-Rose, the story was flowing fairly well, there was great concern over the malevolence and its effects on the party, and honestly it was getting super depressing at every turn. I can understand her inclusion as an attempted shot of hope and energy, but it was pretty storybreakingly silly. There were a good number of moments where her actions broke my brain not just because of what she did and how cheerily she did them, but the sudden lack of consequences and the muted reactions of the cast. Like, probably after the first or second twon with her, I just completely gave up on the story making sense, and you know what? I'm okay with that

I definitely enjoyed using her in combat (but everyone in Zestiria was surprisingly fun in combat) and right around the time she joins, everything else about the game loses momentum too. I still somehow like her, but I completely agree with her placement at the very bottom because she is the most perfect demon girl who is super pure and has her own guardian watching out for her always and is the best and most noble murderer.

But damn Zestiria combat was hella fun


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Thank goodness Shirley is where she belongs.

I never finished the character quests in Legendia (I think I did the first few) but Shirley was one of the reasons I didn't finish them. Because she is awful.

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Yeah, I didn't figure I'd get much pushback on either of those. Let's see if that changes here, though - I seem to recall I encountered a big fan of our next drop on this board a long time ago.

#94 - Marta Lualdi (Symphonia)
But that timid Emil is the one fighting for me with everything he's got, even though he never asked to get wrapped up in all this in the first place. It touches my heart far more than a hero who fights without fear.

Ill start by listing the good things about Marta.

I like her design, and she slapped Ratatosk in the face that one time he was being a particularly giant ass.

This concludes the list of good things about Marta.

I should probably mention early on in this list here that there arent a whole lot of characters that Im going to completely condemn. The characters are the biggest strength of the series - most of the lower-end Tales party members are still somewhat solid because they almost always have a personality or purpose or both. The strong casts are what drove me to do this giant project in the first place.

Marta, though, is worthless. Her personality amounts to emotionally abusive clingy girl in love with Emil. She doesnt even have any bearing on the story - Ratatosks core being in her head is all that makes her relevant (especially once Emil gains the ability to hatch cores, which previously only Marta could do), and that even turns out to be a fake. Her father being the head of the Vanguard adds nothing to the conflict, especially considering that it ends up being the cores that made him go crazy. Shes angry at Colette at the beginning of the game and gets over it in five minutes. Shes not funny or smart or useful or even likable in any way. My favorite Marta quote is when Raine gives Regal the fake love letter and Marta says, Wow, I could learn a lot from her. Yeah, because thats your problem, Marta. Youre too subtle.

Everything about her that isnt actively unappealing is boring. Her combat is unremarkable. Her Mystic Arte is crap even by the low standards of her game. Even if I like her aesthetics I have to admit that theyre also very safe. She really stands out as being plain among the rest of the cast and ESPECIALLY among the other main heroines in the series. Which is fitting, because shes one of only two that exist purely to be a love interest. And that really puts a bow on the whole self-insert fanfiction vibe that Dawn of the New World has. I guess, in a weird way, that makes her perfect for that trash heap of a game, and thats about the most effective insult I can give her.

TL;DR: In a series known for subverting tropes with their characters, Marta falls victim to the time-honored JRPG misstep of making the main heroine nothing more than annoying window dressing that makes heart eyes at the protagonist.

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Marta way too low. Not Top 10 at all or anything but she's probably in the top half of the Symphonia cast at least. But I was a sucker for the Emil/Marta relationship. I dunno if I'm the person you refer to. I wouldn't think so, but OTOH I think I'm one of the people most kind to ToS2 on the board so maybe?

Also ToS2 unfairly maligned tbqhhhh. The reasons it's a dumpster fire are basically all on the gameplay side with the monster system and the idiotic treatment of the original cast where they can't be party/battle leader and have locked levels and equipment. It's okay outside of those but no doubt those are very glaring problems that make playing it a real pain.

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Could very well have been you! I don't actually remember who it was, just that it happened.

I'll go into it more when I get to other Symphonia writeups but I think the idiotic character treatment extended far beyond the gameplay, which I guess is the determining factor in our differing opinions of the game overall.

Anyway, one more for today. Gonna plan on getting out 4 or 5 per day in these early tiers.

#92 - Suzu Fujibayashi (Phantasia)
Father, mother I shall never cry again. These tears shall be my last. I will become a proud ninja.

The only character in the series that I think could be accurately described as a total afterthought. Yeah, theres others that maybe dont contribute much to the plot and/or are never worth one of the four slots in battle, but Suzu takes it to a whole new level. She doesnt show up until the very end of the game and is completely optional. Shes also completely not worth even getting, because you can count on one hand the number of story scenes she actually changes (or even says anything in), and shes noticeably worse as a combatant than any of the other five party members.

She could have been interesting. They walk a good line where shes an effective ninja but isnt immune to the pitfalls of being a small child, and I do like the little subplot with her where shes struggling with the implications of having to block out her emotions. It gets a good payoff in the ending scene where she at first refuses to cry out of some obligation toward being a true ninja and then turns it more into her own decision by saying she wants to keep things happy. But thats it. I have nothing else to say about her because theres nothing else to her.

TL;DR: Shes an optional party member, and it shows. She had some potential but got no time to reach it. Don't hate her like I do most of the characters in this tier, but she barely exists.

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Courage is the magic that makes dreams into reality.

So far so good at least.

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Logicblade posted...

Courage is the magic that makes dreams into reality.

So far so good at least.

That quote is so cringey

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Indeed it is, and speaking of cringey...

#91 - Jay (Legendia)
You fight because you have something you want to protect. It doesnt matter whether or not you can win.

All five of these first eliminations were legitimate contenders for last place, but honestly, the trio of main heroines were in a class of their own. Suzu escaped that sub-tier because, upon reflection, I realized that while shes every bit as worthless of a character as the Roses and Shirleys of the world, shes not nearly important or relevant enough to actively detract from the greater narrative the way they do. And Jay is the same way.

Jay has no redeeming qualities. His design is an absolute eyesore that doesnt fit with the rest of the game at all. Hes not fun to play as because Legendia battles are bad and his fighting style is dumb. I hate his voice. I hate the way he sits when hes on the ground. I hate his hair. Hes not funny. His backstory is dull and overly tropey. He exists only to provide annoyingly convenient information so the story can proceed and he can be smug about it. Even his fondness for the Oresoren, the one indication that he actually has some kindness in him, isnt explored enough to matter.

Hes just an asshole that everyone forgives for being an asshole because hes really just not good at expressing his feelings. Seriously, I lost count of how many times one of the other party members said something along these lines. Its the most prevalent example of Legendias overbearing tell, dont show problem. Theres plenty of characters in Tales that really do come off as generally nice people that simply have trouble showing it. And thats without the rest of their respective parties directly saying it every five minutes. Jay never comes off like that. His jabs feel genuinely mean-spirited and until the last couple of hours of the game, he always seems to think hes plain better than the rest of the group. He mistreats Moses even worse than everyone else does and for absolutely no good reason, and no amount of dialogue gymnastics at the end of his Character Quest that try to tell everyone theyre really like brothers makes it feel true. He adds nothing to the party dynamic and contributes very little to the overall story outside of the aforementioned intelligence network. Just terrible.

TL;DR: Awful in every way. Unfunny, unlikable, uninspired. Only climbs off the bottom of the scrap heap because hes also, comparatively, unimportant.

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I remember liking Jay. I don't remember why. I actually liked all the characters of Legendia except Shirley.

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I think by the point of Rose joining in Zestiria I basically had already suspended disbelief in the story of Zestiria. So I never really saw her as a problem and, like Mana, just enjoyed her in combat.

Now that I've read this topic though? Ouch. Seems I finally will gain an opinion on the girl who had a cringe scene shortly before becoming a party member.

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Not the greatest start to the list for xp, I guess. At least you resisted the urge to put him in your predictions!

#90 - Emil Castagnier (Symphonia)
Courage really is the magic that turns dreams into reality.

The meticulously crafted protagonist of the highest-budget self-insert fanfiction ever.

Look, I dont hate Emil because hes timid and wimpy. Im all for trying something different with the main protagonist. I hate him because its all so poorly executed.

For starters, I have to figure that part of the idea was to make him immediately more sympathetic and relatable. Heres the problem: any of the goodwill that that kind of characterization would ordinarily build up is eliminated by having his main motivation for a good 50%+ of the game be a hateful vendetta against the widely beloved main character of the previous game. Weve (presumably) played the original Symphonia. We know that Lloyd Irving isnt going around slaughtering innocent people and that something else must be up. Do we, as the player, then have any reason to support Emil on his quest for vengeance? It makes everything he says come off as so hollow and misguided. Its not like its his fault, mind - he saw it with his own eyes - but you cant have a disconnect between the player and protagonist like that. And what is his fault is the way he treats some other people because of it. How many times do we have to watch him get all pissy because someone that traveled with Lloyd in the first game is more inclined to trust in him than in some petulant, whiny child they just met two minutes ago? And then, to top it all off, he doesnt even seem particularly angry with Decus for what hes done after Decus gives the party his little sob story. So hes not even consistent.

And Im not gonna praise all the timidity to begin with, because hes too timid. We already have a chronic apologizer in the Symphonia cast, so he doesnt need to make it a competition, but he does. Richter gives him a little advice in the first few minutes of the game and that sets off a hero worship thats insane and over-the-top even without taking into account that he spends most of the game trying to kill Marta.

Then youve got the Ratatosk side of his personality, which is essentially a violent psychopath crossed with teen angst whose inner conflict goes straight from Why does Marta like Wimp!Emil better than me?? to Should I destroy the entire world or not? Really, though, the whole double-identity thing is so silly and ridiculous that I dont even want to talk about it. Both personalities suck.

I could keep going. I could talk about his insanely idiotic plan to fix everything at the end of the game or how he consistently falls for obvious traps or how he never actually says anything interesting or memorable, but Ive probably spent too much time talking about this cash grab already. Ill just say I did enjoy his playstyle and think his costume is pretty good and be on my way.

TL;DR: https://i.imgur.com/V9y3EcE.gif

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NBIceman posted...

Not the greatest start to the list for xp, I guess. At least you resisted the urge to put him in your predictions!

Hey, losing an HM is no big deal. And he was very much my most controversial selection of the ones I listed at all! The Xillia 2 spoiler character is probably the riskiest of my "actually on the list" characters.

NBIceman posted...

but you cant have a disconnect between the player and protagonist like that.

On a more serious level I kinda disagree here. You can go very wrong doing this depending on how you play it, but I don't really have an issue detaching myself from the "Obviously Lloyd isn't burning down cities" knowledge I have as a player and rolling with Emil's understandable misunderstanding. If anything, done well, it can be an interesting dynamic. I mean, I think it's clear you don't think it was done well but the impression I'm getting is you don't think it can work at all period!

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