Board 8 > my top 32 tabletop games

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've never even heard of that #1, so you know I gotta try it

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Naye745 posted...

i did like hansa teutonica but it didnt grab me the one time i played it (and it was a little slower than i'd have wanted, we played with five and had some pretty ap-prone folks involved)

the best time to play your second game of hansa teutonica is right after the first game! i really think this game would be up your alley in particular since you tend to like elegant designs with fewish rules/mechanics but huge decision-space.

cyko posted...

I don't have time for detailed write ups, but maybe I will some day. Here are my Top 30 favorite board games -

running down your list that didn't appear on mine:

1. Eclipse
- want to play, but it will be a long time before I do, if I ever can. Already gonna struggle getting more plays on my near-new copy of Root.

3. Star Wars Epic Duels w/ custom decks
- I played an old copy of someone's at a meetup a few years back. It was... okay? Maybe the custom decks change things up? I do think that a lightish team game is a winning formula.

7. Puerto Rico
- only played once, but as the granddaddy of role selection I have a lot of appreciation for it. I don't know that I'd ever get it due to the use of obvious slave colonists, but I'd definitely play it again in the right setting (which is very crowded to be fair - so many mid/heavy-euros to play...)

8. Russian Railroads
- would love to play this, but doubt I could buy it before I tried it out, and I'm not sure where I'd get to try it out...

9. Race For the Galaxy
- played it once and thought it was really neat - more fun than Roll. Might be one worth taking a flyer on as a 2p game, though I'd like to get a few more reps before committing the shelf space to it.

17. Millennium Blades
- played this once and kind of found it overwhelming and not that fun. Love the theme and concept though.

18. Voyages of Marco Polo
- want to play, but to be fair, nothing sticks out enough about it for me to consider buying it as a another midweight euro.

20. Fuse
- never even heard of this one! It sounds awesome. Do you find that its player count and its weight are counteractive at all? It sounds like a party game, but seems to work best at 4?

21. Anachrony
- have two plays of this, so it would now rank somewhere - probably not super-high, as I don't necessarily regard it as better than other games in its genre - but I do like the asymmetric powers and the two-tiered worker system. I haven't experienced a ton of its breadth; I did not take a single research action in the two games I played.

22. Castles of Mad King Ludwig
- Played this once and it seems like an awesome light/middleweight euro. Only question is if it is

23. Star Wars: the Queen's Gambit
- Heard this is really neat; almost certain I'll never play it, though. Know almost nothing about it, and isn't it out of print?

25. New Frontiers
- Know nothing about it other than it's some recent hotness, so in the "like to try" column.

27. Agricola: All Creatures Great & Small
29. 7 Wonders Duel
- I have actually played 7WD! I don't know that it can merit a spot in my shelf unless I'm sure I can get it to the table many more times. Watergate is my only 2P game aside from Codenames Duet at the moment. With ACG&S, is it different enough from the base game to be worth a buy? I don't own Agricola and might consider getting it, but it seems a little heavy to be playing 2P. Is ACG&S faster to set up, easier to get played, and just as good at 2P?

30. Shadows Over Camelot
- Avalon was my first favorite game, and doing research, it seemed like SOC was a logical next step. It never really wound up happening, and most of what I read about its design seems a bit... clunky? Help!
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masterplum posted...

But wait theres more is so low I am actually upset

i'm just not big on "judging" games. it is a bit better that everyone gets to vote, but it's still not really gonna be my jam.

MajinZidane posted...

I've never even heard of that #1, so you know I gotta try it

how did codenames/bananagrams/avalon/time's up go over in your group?

hansa teutonica is nothing like those and represents a very different itch... but it's a delicious itch!
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here's my current top 5 games:

1. dominion - the all-time classic. absurdly replayable, even with a handful of the now (also absurd) 13 expansions.
2. race for the galaxy - the ultimate value-for-time game, there's so much to chew on in a 30-60 minute, well, race.
3. the castles of burgundy - stefan feld is my guy, and this is arguably his best game, and undoubtedly his most popular. has a lot of depth but is also pretty accessible.
4. bora bora - stefan feld again, this one is sadly out of print and feels like it kind of flew under the radar of some of his bigger hits but man. what a supremely satisfying amalgamation of worker placement, engine/tableau building, and goal completion. it's one of those games that you spend the first half struggling to stop spinning your wheels, but when (and how) you get through makes it feel so good.
5. ra - the ultimate bidding game, and legendary designer reiner knizia's masterpiece. a testament to the "less-is-more" school of game design, and how much game you can pack in a handful of choices if you truly do it right. i'm always amazed at the clever plays and brutal mistakes i make every single time i play this one.

recently i've been playing a ton of macao (also stefan feld) on yucata.de and although it has solidly hung in the 6-10 zone in my rankings i feel like it could easily displace something here. another engine/tableau builder swirling around the most clever dice/action point mechanism of all time

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some comments on previously mentioned games:
puerto rico is a classic for a reason - the pieces around its central role-selection battle are good, but the battle to jockey for the perfect position with all the individual roles is always exceptional. you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least one play where you screw someone else over, and one play where you get screwed over, and it's grand.
although race for the galaxy takes some cues from this one, the race for the galaxy board game (new frontiers) is basically puerto rico both rethemed and with a little more spice, and i'd recommend it for anyone who is lukewarm on PR for the "iffy" theme

millennium blades actually surprised me how much i enjoyed it - it's a lot more fiddly and overwrought than anything i'm usually into, but the real-time aspect along with the success of carrying over the theme's "feel" to the actual game did a heck of a lot. level 99's other stuff left me lukewarm at best, this one's easily my favorite

voyages of marco polo is right around my top 10, and it's funny that you mention it as "another midweight euro" because that's totally how it comes across! but somehow it's surprisingly addictive - it's an exceptionally well-crafted game with lots of familiar systems, yet they work in tandem beautifully here.
if there's one thing that sticks out, it's also a game where each player gets a unique power - and the characters' powers are both unique abilities (not just stuff found elsewhere in the game) and super super strong. some reviewer once described it as everyone looking around the table and calling each other's characters OP, and i think that sums it up pretty nicely.

fuse is super cool, my only beef is that it's exceptionally hard for 2 and much more trivial with 5; it's not a disaster because you can always modify the difficulty if you want, but i wish it were a tad better balanced.

castles of mad king ludwig is one of those games people who like tend to REALLY like, and i'm oddly a bit in the middle. the fun shaped pieces make castle building legitimately exciting, you're not just tossing hexagons together like in suburbia, but really making something that feels unique.
the master builder is a "good" mechanic but man it can be an AP disaster, even for people like me that usually move along pretty well. the desire to not be punished immediately by someone else buying what you need or getting what they want cheap just brings out the agony.

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My family has been playing a lot of codenames online during this pandemic.

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Naye745 posted...

here's my current top 5 games:

1. dominion - the all-time classic. absurdly replayable, even with a handful of the now (also absurd) 13 expansions.
2. race for the galaxy - the ultimate value-for-time game, there's so much to chew on in a 30-60 minute, well, race.
3. the castles of burgundy - stefan feld is my guy, and this is arguably his best game, and undoubtedly his most popular. has a lot of depth but is also pretty accessible.
4. bora bora - stefan feld again, this one is sadly out of print and feels like it kind of flew under the radar of some of his bigger hits but man. what a supremely satisfying amalgamation of worker placement, engine/tableau building, and goal completion. it's one of those games that you spend the first half struggling to stop spinning your wheels, but when (and how) you get through makes it feel so good.
5. ra - the ultimate bidding game, and legendary designer reiner knizia's masterpiece. a testament to the "less-is-more" school of game design, and how much game you can pack in a handful of choices if you truly do it right. i'm always amazed at the clever plays and brutal mistakes i make every single time i play this one.

recently i've been playing a ton of macao (also stefan feld) on yucata.de and although it has solidly hung in the 6-10 zone in my rankings i feel like it could easily displace something here. another engine/tableau builder swirling around the most clever dice/action point mechanism of all time

1. covered dominion in my writeup obviously, but just yesterday, was thinking how awesome it was that donald X actually invented the deckbuilding mechanic while trying to make an entirely different game. less is more indeed!

4. rarely hear about bora bora, perhaps because feld's oeuvre is so deep. i find it kind of unlikely i'll get to play this anytime soon, but i'll keep its name in mind!

re: macao - for a second i thought this was cacao and was seriously puzzled. a 10-second read of its mechanisms does sound interesting.

Naye745 posted...

some comments on previously mentioned games:
puerto rico is a classic for a reason - the pieces around its central role-selection battle are good, but the battle to jockey for the perfect position with all the individual roles is always exceptional. you're pretty much guaranteed to have at least one play where you screw someone else over, and one play where you get screwed over, and it's grand.
although race for the galaxy takes some cues from this one, the race for the galaxy board game (new frontiers) is basically puerto rico both rethemed and with a little more spice, and i'd recommend it for anyone who is lukewarm on PR for the "iffy" theme

millennium blades actually surprised me how much i enjoyed it - it's a lot more fiddly and overwrought than anything i'm usually into, but the real-time aspect along with the success of carrying over the theme's "feel" to the actual game did a heck of a lot. level 99's other stuff left me lukewarm at best, this one's easily my favorite

voyages of marco polo is right around my top 10, and it's funny that you mention it as "another midweight euro" because that's totally how it comes across! but somehow it's surprisingly addictive - it's an exceptionally well-crafted game with lots of familiar systems, yet they work in tandem beautifully here.
if there's one thing that sticks out, it's also a game where each player gets a unique power - and the characters' powers are both unique abilities (not just stuff found elsewhere in the game) and super super strong. some reviewer once described it as everyone looking around the table and calling each other's characters OP, and i think that sums it up pretty nicely.

fuse is super cool, my only beef is that it's exceptionally hard for 2 and much more trivial with 5; it's not a disaster because you can always modify the difficulty if you want, but i wish it were a tad better balanced.

castles of mad king ludwig is one of those games people who like tend to REALLY like, and i'm oddly a bit in the middle. the fun shaped pieces make castle building legitimately exciting, you're not just tossing hexagons together like in suburbia, but really making something that feels unique.
the master builder is a "good" mechanic but man it can be an AP disaster, even for people like me that usually move along pretty well. the desire to not be punished immediately by someone else buying what you need or getting what they want cheap just brings out the agony.

RE: marco polo - it's still relatively recent and is kind of a "hotness" game, so now i'm hoping that i run into it at a meetup!

RE: castles of mad king ludwig - i think it needs more plays. the master builder mechanic is very similar to isle of skye, but for whatever reason IOS has hit the table a lot and not COMKL - it's just how the cookie crumbles. suburbia is def on my want-to-play list.

Maniac64 posted...

My family has been playing a lot of codenames online during this pandemic.

nice! glad that you guys are staying in contact and playing games together!
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the big rub of isle of skye is that you all get to decide your bids in secret simultaneously, instead of one person agonizing over all the pieces at once, and that's such a huge difference to me. despite castle-building being way more compelling, and all the bonus-scoring being more intriguing in castles, i place isle way ahead for that reason.

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that's a fair point! god i miss board gaming.

meanwhile, relevant to a feld-y: https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/106647/stefan-felds-bruges-and-macao-be-reborn-hamburg-an

never played either of these myself, but obviously you've mentioned macao, and bruges is #1 of an acquaintance of mine
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yeah i read about that, and my misgivings with queen games aside, i'm intrigued

interestingly my excitement and worry for each game is the complete reverse:
macao has god-awful graphic design and a truly nonexistent theme, so a visual redesign is super compelling and welcome, but man i am going to scrutinize every gameplay change because the original is a masterpiece

bruges on the other hand is a really neat game but i think could take a step up with some reworkings - the card draws in particular can be painfully random at times and the game can feel a little too "hope and pray" kind of tactical, but i really liked the art and theme of the original, the canal-building and buildings are specific to the city, and the 165 (!) unique pieces of character art were absolutely joyful. the retheme should be fine, but it already seems a lot less compelling

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Okay, so this is why I don't have time to do my own write up - it took me the course of a week just to come up with responses to your commentary! Here are my thoughts -

1. Eclipse
- want to play, but it will be a long time before I do, if I ever can. Already gonna struggle getting more plays on my near-new copy of Root.

For me, this is just such an epic game with the right balance of everything that makes a game fun - planning, interaction, different strategies, theme, different factions, tactical decisions and epic space battles. I love everything about it! I really hope you get to play it.

It's off topic a bit, but Twilight Imperium is similar to Eclipse in many ways, but I prefer Eclipse for two main reasons - First, the board for TI is set at the beginning of the game which eliminates the excitement of exploring. It's also very possible for someone to completely screw you over with the initial placement of system tiles - which can be very demoralizing to realize that you are starting off a 6-8 hour game with a major disadvantage right from the start. Second, Politics play a much larger role in TI, including the use of some cards that can have a major negative impact on someone's game. It makes it much easier to gang up on a player to eliminate or severely handicap them, which usually isn't fun (...unless that player really deserves it!!!).

I bring it up because Twilight Imperium 4th edition really is another great epic space game that you also might love - especially if you prefer games that have a lot of politicking and backstabbing.

I highly recommend Eclipse with 6 people, but have still enjoyed it with 4 or 5. I have never tried it with 2 or 3 people. This is also one of the very few games that I have successfully played with 9 people. It does seem overwhelming to new players at first, but once they understand the basic flow, almost every noobie I have taught this game to wants to play it again.

3. Star Wars Epic Duels w/ custom decks
- I played an old copy of someone's at a meetup a few years back. It was... okay? Maybe the custom decks change things up? I do think that a lightish team game is a winning formula.

Epic Duels is hands down my most played board game of all time. Nothing else even comes close. The original game could be played as a free for all or with teams. The free for all mode was pretty mediocre because it was inevitable that whoever struck first pretty much always lost and whoever hid in the corner and waited for everyone else to fight first usually won. But the team game was always a blast. There's not nearly enough games (especially non-party games) that give you that feeling of winning as a team - most games are cooperative or competitive. Playing as a team against another team gives you the best of both worlds! In Epic Duels, playing 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 also helped mitigate a poor opening hand of cards. Usually, two players together could adapt together long enough to survive if one or even both of them had a terrible opening hand, which was difficult to do as a single player.

The original Star Wars characters were fun to play with, but some of them weren't very well balanced (Obi-Wan was clearly better than the rest). However, the core system was VERY well done and once we discovered the custom decks from all across the Star Wars EU, the game really started to shine. Even though the system is not complicated at all, the different characters add a lot of depth. There were a couple of fans who designed some excellent custom decks. Then my friends started getting in on the fun by creating our own custom decks.

I am not usually a very creative person when it comes to customizing games, but I took this a step further and created a full set of custom Super Smash Bros. Epic Duels. I took time to customize each deck to the character's personality and playstyle. I am obviously biased towards my own decks, but after hosting several events at Gencon over the years, I have heard nothing but positive feedback about Super Smash Bros Epic Duels. Undoubtedly, those positive experiences have elevated my personal opinion of Epic Duels.

Recently, Rob Daviau remade the Epic Duels system into a game called Unmatched. The characters aren't nearly as interesting as Star Wars (or Smash Bros!!), but the game has gotten great reviews and seems to be better balanced than the original Epic Duels. I haven't tried it yet, because the price seems crazy high ($40 for 4 characters) compared to what you got with Epic Duels ($50 for 12 characters...), but I would like to try it.

7. Puerto Rico

• only played once, but as the granddaddy of role selection I have a lot of appreciation for it. I don't know that I'd ever get it due to the use of obvious slave colonists, but I'd definitely play it again in the right setting (which is very crowded to be fair - so many mid/heavy-euros to play...)

Puerto Rico was the very first Euro game my core gaming group and I ever played (Even before Catan or Ticket to Ride). That had to be at least 15 years ago. It not only introduced us to the concept of Role Selection, but it introduced us to the concept of Victory Points in games for better or for worse. I fell in love with the game, but as we discovered more and more games, it got played way less frequently. We last pulled out Puerto Rico about two years ago and played it twice. I was surprised that it still holds up very well. It's a very interactive Euro game and still a lot of fun.

The colonist thing doesn't really bother me, but I do understand and respect your viewpoint about it. If that is a bit of a barrier, then you really need to check out New Frontiers. It's basically a refined version of Puerto Rico with the symbology and space theme of Race/ Roll For the Galaxy.

8. Russian Railroads

• would love to play this, but doubt I could buy it before I tried it out, and I'm not sure where I'd get to try it out...

I can't quite put my finger on why I love this game so much, but it's a very well polished, very strategic worker placement game where every action feels important. It's definitely in the same genre as Agricola, but different enough for me to enjoy both. RR definitely rewards skilled players, though, so it can be a little tough for newer players to break into. The German Railroad boards really open up the game without making it too much more complicated. It is out of print, but if you want to try it online, you can play it at www.yucata.de or www.boardgamearena.com

9. Race For the Galaxy
- played it once and thought it was really neat - more fun than Roll. Might be one worth taking a flyer on as a 2p game, though I'd like to get a few more reps before committing the shelf space to it.

Roll and Race are indeed very similar and both fun games - similar enough where I don't really see a need to own both. I have played Race a number of times at all player counts and it does play very quickly and pretty well at 2p. Two of my friends prefer Roll over Race solely because they like the feel of rolling dice. To them, that's the only real difference between the two games. For me, I prefer Race over Roll mainly because of the dice allocation.

In both games, you are trying to predict what your opponents will do and capitalize off of their actions. In Roll, it's much more crippling if you predict incorrectly - all of those dice you allocated to a phase that didn't get chosen go back in the cup and you can lose an entire turn. It just doesn't feel good. In Race, if you predict incorrectly, your turn may be less than ideal, but at least you still have the option of using each phase that was selected. It doesn't "feel" as painful. It's a minor gripe, but that's the only real difference between the two games for me.


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17. Millennium Blades

• played this once and kind of found it overwhelming and not that fun. Love the theme and concept though.

I have commented on this one before and it really is better than the sum of its parts. The actual card game that you play in the 3 tournaments (over the course of the full game) by itself isn't that exciting and can be determined completely randomly by the cards you collect in the planning phase. But the game is about so much more than the tournaments. Getting overall points for Collecting cards, selling cards, throwing actual wads of cash around and even getting rewarded for the friends you make along the way!

Millennium Blades really does an amazing job of capturing the feeling of spending a year or two being involved in a CCG/LCG and wraps it up in 2-4 hours. I'm sorry it didn't grab you as much as me. You're right that with so many moving parts it can be overwhelming, so it does make a big difference to have someone experienced to teach the game. I also can't imagine this game being nearly as fun with only two or three people.

18. Voyages of Marco Polo

• want to play, but to be fair, nothing sticks out enough about it for me to consider buying it as a another midweight euro.

Naye is right. I was a little skeptical on this one at first, but it really grew on me. The character abilities are so different that each one affects the way you approach the game depending on your character, you can focus on moving around the map or collecting contracts or a balance between the two. The game also makes clever use of the dice. It's a very interactive euro that is easy to teach, has a lot of replayability and has multiple paths to victory. It's just a really well designed game that is fun to play.

20. Fuse
- never even heard of this one! It sounds awesome. Do you find that its player count and its weight are counteractive at all? It sounds like a party game, but seems to work best at 4?

I wouldn't quite call Fuse a party game, but it is a huge hit with casual and non-gamers. So I guess it is sort of a party game. It's a quick, chaotic, fun filler game. Since it's a real time co-op game, it's very difficult for an alpha gamer to play the game for everyone. Nearly everyone I have played with (including non-gamers) pick up on figuring out what they need pretty quickly and start demanding the dice they need along with everyone else, so everyone stays engaged.

The whole game works solely because of the timed aspect. If you Take away the timer and make it turn based, then most of my gamer friends would get bored of it pretty quickly. The pressure of having only 10 minutes gives the game it's frantic nature that is a lot of fun - similar to Captain Sonar. The turn based version of Captain Sonar is okay. But once you start the timer, everyone is full steam ahead and the game becomes great. Fuse is very similar, just in 10 minute bursts - which is almost the perfect amount of time to keep up a frantic pace. It still works at 2 and 3 players, but I have had more fun with this one with more people at 4 or 5 players.

21. Anachrony

• have two plays of this, so it would now rank somewhere - probably not super-high, as I don't necessarily regard it as better than other games in its genre - but I do like the asymmetric powers and the two-tiered worker system. I haven't experienced a ton of its breadth; I did not take a single research action in the two games I played.

- I will admit that I only played Anachrony twice, so maybe my ranking is a bit skewed. As you can tell, I do love worker placement games, but for me, what sets it apart from most other worker placement is the uniqueness of how the theme ties in with the gameplay. There comes a certain point where the world is about to end and the goal of the game completely changes which can be at a different point in different games. I love the way the game builds up with more options opening up each round until the meteor starts crashing down and your options suddenly become more and more limited. It's just got such a great story arc that you don't see very often in Euro games. It also helps that the two-tiered worker system is very satisfying to work with. Even though it is kind of a long game, I constantly think about Anachrony and would really love to play it again.

23. Star Wars: the Queen's Gambit

• Heard this is really neat; almost certain I'll never play it, though. Know almost nothing about it, and isn't it out of print?

Yes, this game is very out of print and since it was tied in to Star Wars Episode I, it has a 0.00001% chance of ever being reprinted. Star Wars Risk was loosely based on Queen's Gambit, but it's nowhere near as good. This is another game I have only played twice both times at gaming conventions. I loved it so much that I would consider this my grail game the most expensive and hard to find game that I would love to add to my collection.

Basically, the game simulates the climax of Star Wars Episode 1 by having you play four different games at the same time. It sounds weird, but all four sub-games interlock together and it works really well. One side plays the Trade Federation (Dark Side) and the other plays Naboo (Light Side). On one map, you have the battle on the plain between the Gungan forces and the droid army, which connects to ---- A 3 tiered palace where you have the attempt by Naboo forces, led by Queen Amidala, to storm the palace and capture the Trade Federation viceroys, which is also connected to - the fight between Darth Maul and the two Jedi Knights on a power reactor map. Off to the side, you also have the space battle where Anakin's starfighter is trying to destroy the Droid Control Ship.

I am not usually impressed by a lot of miniatures, but this game is a real sight to behold when it's set up with miniatures across three separate boards, including that totally awesome multi-level palace. The action is driven by two decks of cards for each side. Each turn, each side simultaneously chooses four action cards from a hand of ten, and places them in order. The actions are then carried out one at a time, alternating sides. Combat is resolved using special attack and defense dice. Each side needs to carefully weigh which of the four battles is more important based on the cards you have in your hand. The different battles can affect each other, too. For example, If Anakin makes it through the final space battle location, he shuts down the battle droids, making it easier for the Gungans to win their battle. Or the winner of the Darth Maul/ Jedi duel joins the palace battle and can use their special moves there.
I've never played anything quite like this game. It's unbelievable that Hasbro went through the trouble of releasing a game this intricate as a movie tie in. I really wish I had heard of it before it was long out of print since it's now almost impossible to find for under $200. If you ever get a chance to play this game somewhere, do yourself a favor and at least try it once. It's meant to be just a two player game and The card draws and dice can be fickle at times, but it's still a great experience.


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22. Castles of Mad King Ludwig
Played this once and it seems like an awesome light/middleweight euro. Only question is if it is

Yes. Yes it is an awesome light/middleweight euro. There's a handful of great tile placing games where you place tiles to build you own little city or castle or whatever. The mechanic of bidding for tiles is fun, but what I think sets Castles of MKL apart are the designs of the castles and how the different individual named rooms form a unique (and sometimes absurd) castle for everyone. Everyone I have played with (including myself) gets a big kick out of explaining their castle design at the end of the game pointing out why you have a bowling alley down the hall from your private kitchen, which is around the corner from your personal torture chamber. It makes for a fun experience.

25. New Frontiers

• Know nothing about it other than it's some recent hotness, so in the "like to try" column.

As I mentioned under Puerto Rico, New Frontiers is basically a refined version of Puerto Rico with the symbology and space theme of Race/ Roll For the Galaxy. I think I might actually like it a bit more than Pueto Rico because of how it's streamlined, but I have only played it three times (which is actually really good for me considering I have only had it for about a year!). There are enough minor differences where it's not just a rethemed version of Puerto Rico, but I think I need to play it a few more times to see which I prefer.

For example in New Frontiers, you can adjust the player order with one of the 7 actions, which I prefer to the player order always staying the same in PR. But in PR, I think I prefer loading up your goods on the trade ships that each player shares instead of producing and consuming on your own board in NF. But then again, in NF, I really like how everyone selects a different starting board with a different special ability.... and NF is very color-blind friendly!! So, yeah, they are very similar, but I am still a little torn on which one I prefer.

27. Agricola: All Creatures Big & Small
29. 7 Wonders Duel

• I have actually played 7WD! I don't know that it can merit a spot in my shelf unless I'm sure I can get it to the table many more times. Watergate is my only 2P game aside from Codenames Duet at the moment. With ACB&S, is it different enough from the base game to be worth a buy? I don't own Agricola and might consider getting it, but it seems a little heavy to be playing 2P. Is ACB&S faster to set up, easier to get played, and just as good at 2P?

I am surprised you don't have more 2P games, especially during this pandemic. A:ACB&S is absolutely different enough from Agricola worth a purchase - IF - you play 2P games frequently. It is easier to setup, easier to teach and shorter to play than standard Agricola. And if you track down the ACB&S Big Box, it's a better 2P game than Agricola. The expansion buildings add a lot of variety and a lot of replayability. As you can see, I personally love Agricola, but ACB&S does a really nice job of capturing the same feeling in a shorter time frame. It's great in quick bursts.

I also really enjoy 7 Wonders Duel, but I think I like ACB&S just a little bit more because it's easier to teach and seems to appeal more to casual gamers. I do like that 7 Wonders Duel has three different victory conditions. It helps keep the game from getting stale when you constantly need to watch all three categories. There's more to it than simply being another victory point game. I have nothing against victory point games, but with so many great games out there, having something unique that works well really helps a game stand out, which is what 7WD's multiple victory conditions do for me.

30. Shadows Over Camelot

• Avalon was my first favorite game, and doing research, it seemed like SOC was a logical next step. It never really wound up happening, and most of what I read about its design seems a bit... clunky? Help!

My friends and I played this one a LOT when we first got into board gaming. It was a game we picked up soon after Puerto Rico. The design is a bit clunky, but it was the first time we had ever heard of a co-operative board game. AND it played 7 players, which was great since we had a fairly large gaming group. After each player's turn where they try to help one of the multiple quests that is going on, you reveal a card from the deck of really bad stuff to progress evil, which does something bad to one of the quests or all of the players. To this day, in any co-op game, whenever the AI or the game takes a turn, we still refer to it as the progression of evil. It was already a tough game, but then the game makes one of the players a traitor who is secretly working against everyone else to tank the game.

The concepts of a co-op game and figuring out the traitor were very novel to us, which I think is what added to the fun of the game. Especially when everyone starts accusing every other player of being the traitor -

Player 1 - You drew a card?! That seems like something a traitor would do!!

Player 2 - You're accusing ME of being the traitor?! That sounds like traitor talk to me!

Player 3 - You idiots! You're both probably traitors!

Player 1 & Player 2 - HE'S THE TRAITOR!

By today's standards, it's probably not that great. After you get the hang of it, it becomes easy to see the optimum moves, which opens up the game to have major alpha gamer potential. In turn, that makes it harder to be the traitor when it's obvious what your next move should be if you're one of the good knights and you don't want to do it. The traitor also becomes more powerful if he just blatantly does harmful things right from the start, which can be a fun way for the traitor to play, but does kind of go against the spirit of the game. We also had to make some house rules about making formal accusations - otherwise we had a couple of players who mathed it out and proved that it was more beneficial to spend the first turns of the game accusing other players of being the traitor so that you could weed him out before he got to do much damage which also went against the spirit of the game.

I don't typically like social deduction games, but I think I make an exception for this one because of the nostalgia from how much I've played it over the years. Plus, it is much more structured than most social deduction games. When everyone gets into the spirit of the game, it can still be a lot of fun. The people playing the game will make a big difference in your experience here. It might be worth trying at some point if you love the idea of a co-op game with a hidden traitor. Otherwise, I have never played it, but I hear Battlestar Galactica takes everything Shadows Over Camelot did and makes it better.

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Naye745 posted...

yeah i read about that, and my misgivings with queen games aside, i'm intrigued

interestingly my excitement and worry for each game is the complete reverse:
macao has god-awful graphic design and a truly nonexistent theme, so a visual redesign is super compelling and welcome, but man i am going to scrutinize every gameplay change because the original is a masterpiece

bruges on the other hand is a really neat game but i think could take a step up with some reworkings - the card draws in particular can be painfully random at times and the game can feel a little too "hope and pray" kind of tactical, but i really liked the art and theme of the original, the canal-building and buildings are specific to the city, and the 165 (!) unique pieces of character art were absolutely joyful. the retheme should be fine, but it already seems a lot less compelling

A couple more thoughts -

• I have never played Isle of Skye, but I have always wanted to.
• I only played Macao once and I really liked the way the mechanics came together, but the theme was drier than week old toast, which was a big turn off to some of the friends who played it with me. The friend who owned it ended up selling it off. Maybe the remake will be worth checking out.
• I also played Bruges once last year and that one didn't grab any of my group at all. I could best describe it as "adequate". It's a nice victory point game that was put together well, but absolutely nothing about it stood out from all of the other victory point games. When you have played 350+ different games over the years, games start to blend together and a solid game with good gameplay needs to do something notable to stick out - whether it's the theme, the components, a new twist on a mechanic, it's sense of humor - something. Bruges wasn't bad, but noone in our group felt compelled to play it ever again after the first playthrough.

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i'm a big fan of multi-use cards and i think bruges pulls that off very well. the whole color-coding of everything (and the palette used) is just very pleasing to me as well.

but the game is just SO tactical that i could see it being a turn-off for anyone who likes engine-builders and found themselves not really being able to make much or any long-term plans.

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It's not so much that I didn't like it - it's just that it didn't jump out at me. I thought it would be a sure-fire hit since I like multi-use cards, too, but the graphic design, theme and gameplay were just kind of "meh." I don't think I would refuse to play it again, but even looking only at Feld's other games I have played, I would rather play Castles of Burgundy, Amerigo, Macao, In the Year of the Dragon or Notre Dame.

Plus, Bruges is VERY color-blind Unfriendly, which created some issues for me - or rather for my friends who had to answer the question, "What color is that?" every 30 seconds...

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cyko posted...

Basically, the game simulates the climax of Star Wars Episode 1 by having you play four different games at the same time. It sounds weird, but all four sub-games interlock together and it works really well. One side plays the Trade Federation (Dark Side) and the other plays Naboo (Light Side). On one map, you have the battle on the plain between the Gungan forces and the droid army, which connects to ---- A 3 tiered palace where you have the attempt by Naboo forces, led by Queen Amidala, to storm the palace and capture the Trade Federation viceroys, which is also connected to - the fight between Darth Maul and the two Jedi Knights on a power reactor map. Off to the side, you also have the space battle where Anakin's starfighter is trying to destroy the Droid Control Ship.

don't have time to respond to quite everything atm, but this sounds amazing. and yeah, stunning that it was a movie tie-in...
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I really like these writeups, so thank you for doing them. Normally it makes want to get interested in trying out new games but for obvious reasons it's going to be a while before that happens...

One thing I've noticed is there are a fair amount of games I really enjoy that aren't on here, so I wonder if you've never played them or if you just don't like them that much. I haven't played a large amount of board games so I could understand if if we just have different libraries and tastes, but if you have the time I wondered if you could tell me what you thought of these games:

Push
Lords of Waterdeep
Impact
Villainous
Spyfall

If you want to hear my opinions on them I'd be happy to expound on them further when I have time.

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Grand Kirby posted...

I really like these writeups, so thank you for doing them. Normally it makes want to get interested in trying out new games but for obvious reasons it's going to be a while before that happens...

One thing I've noticed is there are a fair amount of games I really enjoy that aren't on here, so I wonder if you've never played them or if you just don't like them that much. I haven't played a large amount of board games so I could understand if if we just have different libraries and tastes, but if you have the time I wondered if you could tell me what you thought of these games:

Push
Lords of Waterdeep
Impact
Villainous
Spyfall

If you want to hear my opinions on them I'd be happy to expound on them further when I have time.

I always enjoy reading other people's thoughts on board games, so I say offer up your opinions.

Push - Never heard of

Lords of Waterdeep - It's a pretty solid Worker Placement game. I've played it 2 or 3 times and I enjoyed it. After my first couple of plays, nothing about it jumped out as being too impressive - at least compared to other WP games like Agricola, Russian Railroads, Marco Polo, Viticulture or Anachrony. It seems a little straightforward - (take cubes, trade in cubes, take cubes, trade in cubes, etc...) but I would play it again, though.

Impact - Never heard of

Villainous - I own this one and the Be Prepared expansion. I love Disney and have a number of friends who also do, but I have only played it once so far. I thought it would be great to bust out with some of my casual gamer friends who are Disney fans, but after the lone 2 player game I tried, it's more complicated than I thought. This is not a light and fluffy game - most of the characters are surprisingly deep. And it seems like a no-brainer now, but it's also an extremely mean game. I mean, who would have thought that a game about playing as Disney villains would be mean?

But seriously - the game is built around screwing each other over. Typically, I hate those types of games, but I think the theme of Villainous is enough for me to look past the amount of meanness in the game. The artwork and the theme of each villain's cards, map and goals are excellent. Each villain is different and feels like you are actually playing the villain. Plus, you can play as Ratigan from the Great Mouse Detective!!! I would like to play it more to see if it is still fun or if the meanness is too much for me.

Spyfall - Heard of it, but never played it.

After looking at the five games you posted, you seem to like some randomness blended in with your games. If you enjoy Lords of Waterdeep, you should really try Viticulture. It's a fantastic (and similar) type of game (Worker Placement) with a theme that is carried out very naturally and very well. It flows well enough where the learning curve isn't that steep. The card decks leave just enough element of chance where even newer players can have a chance to keep up. Voyages of Marco Polo has a little steeper of a learning curve, but is another one you might enjoy.

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lords of waterdeep bored me, but to be fair worker placement is one of my least favorite game mechanics (especially relative to just about everyone else, ever)

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I played Waterdeep once towards the beginning of my hobby game career. I really liked it but it could've been a combination of A) finding a killer engine and dominating and B) not much frame of reference. It's one of those I keep almost buying.

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cyko posted...

I bring it up because Twilight Imperium 4th edition really is another great epic space game that you also might love - especially if you prefer games that have a lot of politicking and backstabbing.

I actually am not big on the politicking and backstabbing! I like AGOT: The Board Game a lot, but in general, I like to play my strategy games as quickly as possible. My brain will usually translate long negotiations, especially among people who are not me, into downtime/boredom/bickering. That said, given that it can play with only 4, maybe there's a chance....... some day.

I am not usually a very creative person when it comes to customizing games, but I took this a step further and created a full set of custom Super Smash Bros. Epic Duels. I took time to customize each deck to the character's personality and playstyle. I am obviously biased towards my own decks, but after hosting several events at Gencon over the years, I have heard nothing but positive feedback about Super Smash Bros Epic Duels. Undoubtedly, those positive experiences have elevated my personal opinion of Epic Duels.

Recently, Rob Daviau remade the Epic Duels system into a game called Unmatched. The characters aren't nearly as interesting as Star Wars (or Smash Bros!!), but the game has gotten great reviews and seems to be better balanced than the original Epic Duels. I haven't tried it yet, because the price seems crazy high ($40 for 4 characters) compared to what you got with Epic Duels ($50 for 12 characters...), but I would like to try it.

Love the enthusiasm/initiative here. Inspired both by the YGO card game and the anime, my friends and I once had the idea to make some sort of card game where you could summon monsters, but they'd appear in a labyrinth you'd have to navigate. It didn't come to fruition so I'm envious you managed to get so much out of a system!

In general I tend to stay away from owning IPs outside of ASOIAF. So the idea of Unmatched is a good one to me!

As I mentioned under Puerto Rico, New Frontiers is basically a refined version of Puerto Rico with the symbology and space theme of Race/ Roll For the Galaxy. I think I might actually like it a bit more than Pueto Rico because of how it's streamlined, but I have only played it three times (which is actually really good for me considering I have only had it for about a year!). There are enough minor differences where it's not just a rethemed version of Puerto Rico, but I think I need to play it a few more times to see which I prefer.

For example in New Frontiers, you can adjust the player order with one of the 7 actions, which I prefer to the player order always staying the same in PR. But in PR, I think I prefer loading up your goods on the trade ships that each player shares instead of producing and consuming on your own board in NF. But then again, in NF, I really like how everyone selects a different starting board with a different special ability.... and NF is very color-blind friendly!! So, yeah, they are very similar, but I am still a little torn on which one I prefer.

I've been reading a little more on Race/Roll/PR/NF. I suspect that Race is by far the best option among all these for a 2P game. The only issue is whether my partner is going to have the interest/patience to play Race more than once after a reluctant learning game. A few weeks ago I got my decade-old copy of Backgammon to the table and she hated it. Didn't even play more than one game. Earlier, I'd thought about Innovation as well for a 2P game - I've played it twice and not liked it, but it seems ideal for a game to play over and over and get better at.

I imagine PR is the best-looking on a table/has the aesthetic I like the most (though with an unfortunate theme). Not big on space themes or aesthetics in most of my board games. Roll I find to be an ugly game... but it has dice. And it sounds like NF might be less punishing than PR with no slaves, but otherwise the sell isn't clear.

So while the pandemic goes on and I desperately await more plays on several of my games, I'm staying away from all of them. Alas.

I can't quite put my finger on why I love this game so much, but it's a very well polished, very strategic worker placement game where every action feels important. It's definitely in the same genre as Agricola, but different enough for me to enjoy both. RR definitely rewards skilled players, though, so it can be a little tough for newer players to break into. The German Railroad boards really open up the game without making it too much more complicated. It is out of print, but if you want to try it online, you can play it at www.yucata.de or www.boardgamearena.com

Noted re: online play! A person in my meetup's discord complained the other day about Russian Railroads feeling soulless. I laughed because the game is called Russian Railroads. Like, what are you expecting?!

. The actual card game that you play in the 3 tournaments (over the course of the full game) by itself isn't that exciting and can be determined completely randomly by the cards you collect in the planning phase. But the game is about so much more than the tournaments. Getting overall points for Collecting cards, selling cards, throwing actual wads of cash around and even getting rewarded for the friends you make along the way!

So, I've twice been into a CCG/LCG: YGO waaaay back when, and AGOT:TCG in recent years. In neither case did I particularly enjoy the process of buying cards; storing cards was an issue for me, and I fell behind, and I have anxiety spending that much money regularly. I did love the friends I made along the way, but I was much more into playing the games and the meta compared to acquiring cards. Maybe that explains why it didn't hit for me!

I am surprised you don't have more 2P games, especially during this pandemic.

Ah, alas, yeah. Haven't gamed much at all. I might make a list of games I've acquired/played more since making this list, but my 2P household gaming this entire pandemic has consisted of one play of Backgammon, a few plays of Watergate, and one play of Castles of Burgundy. We're talking about getting Viticulture back to the table though.

Otherwise, I have never played it, but I hear Battlestar Galactica takes everything Shadows Over Camelot did and makes it better.

BSG is a case where I prefer the SOC theme (I'm an Avalon fan, after all!) and I played BSG waaaaay too early on, when at least two of us had never played a two-hour game voluntarily (and it took three). I have a dream about getting five players to play it and learn it well. I do think based on what you're saying that SOC is definitely a try-not-buy, but this actually does make me want to try it even more.

Random anecdote - at Origins a year ago, I got to play a game I'd researched for a long time early on - Shadow Hunters. It has some issues, but in the end, I was still pretty interested and it didn't seem broken to me. It's out of print, so copies go for like $150-$200, and I saw one appear on my local marketplace at $20... I was talked out of it and regretted my choice within a few hours, but it was gone by then. :(
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Grand Kirby posted...

I really like these writeups, so thank you for doing them. Normally it makes want to get interested in trying out new games but for obvious reasons it's going to be a while before that happens...

Thanks! I only discuss 'cause I love doing it. And also because like you, I'm desperate for gaming...

One thing I've noticed is there are a fair amount of games I really enjoy that aren't on here, so I wonder if you've never played them or if you just don't like them that much. I haven't played a large amount of board games so I could understand if if we just have different libraries and tastes

I actually ranked pretty much every game here that I've played on more than one separate occasion; the games at the bottom of the list I pretty much actively dislike! So the ones you've listed, I haven't played more than once, but I can opine.

Haven't even heard of: Push, Impact
Push looks a little like Uno? But it sounds less punishing and more push-your-luck-y, so I might compare it more to Point Salad - which I love.

Impact sounds pretty awesome. I do enjoy dexterity games - though I think in general I prefer real-time to dexterity as a chaotic mechanic. How do you find the intersection between dice randomness and dexterity in this game?

Played once: Lords of Waterdeep
So this probably wasn't optimal, because I played it at a meetup with six people and at least one or two people I didn't particularly like. We played with the Scoundrels expansion, which from what I hear is pretty mandatory. Among worker placement games, I don't think it did anything to distinguish itself - it was mainly collecting cubes? I believe the Scoundrels mainly added some Intrigue card draw, which I found mostly a distraction rather than additive.

I didn't find a ton in the game to love. That said, circumstances are what lead to the enjoyment of a game. I kind of suspect that it's way better at three or four players with everyone taking snappy turns - there are very few games that I don't enjoy more played that way!

Heard of, but haven't played: Villainous
As mentioned before, the theme is a negative to me. I actually do like the majority of Disney movies I've seen, especially their songs. From what I hear about this, it's probably not up my alley, but

Played several times: Spyfall
So this is a little weird, because I've never played the physical game of Spyfall (which I have to imagine is cumbersome). However, I've played it plenty online. I've enjoyed it for sure - like in Dixit and Decrypto, I enjoy the "communicate something, but not everything" incentive, which essentially forces you to hope that people will get what you're saying... but not the wrong people. One of my issues with Spyfall that makes me reticent to suggest it all the time is the lack of structure. It does rely heavily on its players to give it even a modicum of fun. But even well-intentioned players can be kind of awkward accusing one another, and with only one spy, it can often just be luck if you happen to get asked a question too early, and you're basically outed. And then there are the games that feel like they go on a little too long, when the spy is asked a question last and has blended in already.

So I guess it's a weird thing to criticize for a 5-8 minute game, but I wish Spyfall had more of a real "story-arc" that developed. The best social deduction games IMO do have that. Spyfall often feels like "'kay, lucked by" or "oops, got caught too soon." When it fires and there's genuine confusion and close calls, though, it can feel really clever. (It can also just lead to a good amount of laughs when people ask bizarre questions! "What's that smell?")

If you want to hear my opinions on them I'd be happy to expound on them further when I have time.

Of course, whenever you can! I'd also be interested to see which of the games that did make it on my list are your favs.
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from my experience, spyfall is much better enjoyed with a group of friends in a setting where you can just hammer out 5 games or so in quick succession. unlike resistance/werewolf, you really don't want to get too attached to any individual game. the experience of asking dumb questions and having them become a meme in the next game (and silly stuff like that) is much better than any real gameplay "tricks" there imho

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yeah, there's no overarching storyline in spyfall. it's more like one night werewolf.
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bump - will archive this next week
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Sorry, it's been a while since I said I would try to write up the thoughts about the games I mentioned, but work has been crazy for the past couple of weeks. I really want to try and get some done while I can though.

- Push -
2-6 Players
10-20 min play time

Rules: You start with a 120 card deck, the majority of which is made of cards numbered 1-6 in five different colors. On your turn you draw from the deck as often as you want, while placing the cards you draw into piles (up to a maximum of three), with the limitation that each pile cannot have more than one of the same number or color in it. With the number value of a card being how many points it's worth, your goal is to build a pile that is worth a large amount of points without "busting" i.e., drawing a card that you are unable to place into any pile. You can choose to quit drawing and end your turn whenever you feel like and can choose any pile you've made to keep for yourself, with the other players in turn order being able to pick up leftover piles. The game ends when the deck is empty, and players count how many points they've obtained with the most points winning.

If you do bust however, not only are you unable to keep a pile for yourself, but you also have to roll a die featuring every color (plus a neutral result). If you roll a color, you must discard every card you've obtained during the game of that color. To prevent this, on your turn you can choose to skip drawing cards to bank a color and keep the cards you have of that color safe for the rest of the game. There are also dice roll cards that can be arranged in a pile like any other that force a roll if you choose that pile.

Review: While ultimately a very simple game, Push has ended up being one of my absolute favorites simply because it contains so many great elements that make it an enjoyable game in many different ways:

1) It's Easy to Get Into. There have been plenty of times where my group start up a game and try to invite a friend to join who just doesn't feel up to learning and trying out a new game. But Push always has no trouble breaking them down. The rules and strategy are extremely easy to comprehend, and the game is very fun to watch other people play. It doesn't take long for anybody sitting in the sidelines to want to join the next game, and people from all sorts of different gaming experiences have an easy time having fun and doing well playing the game.

2) It's Fun to Watch. Continuing on that point, this is a fun game to watch people play, even if you're playing it and are just watching someone else take their turn. At it's core, a large part of the gameplay is deciding whether you want to push your luck and draw juuuuust one more card or not, and it's great fun seeing people struggle with the decision and egging them on hoping they'll blow it and bust. It's a game that generates great reactions as people despair if they bust or roll poorly, or even when they scrape by and do well when everyone expected them to fail. It's also often not easy to tell at a glance who is leading, and has a habit of generating unexpected victories which can be really funny.

3) It Combines Luck With Strategy. I know a lot of people might be wary of a game featuring a lot of luck, and I personally HATE a lot of dice-rolling games, but Push manages to find a nice balance where the strategy you bring to it still has value while still keeping things unpredictable. Even if your luck didn't go your way it always feels like you had an option to avoid it (Ended up busting? Well, you could have always just called it quits and taken what you already had. Lost cards to a dice roll? You always had the option to bank). While it ultimately is a party game in the end, it never feels like you're at the complete mercy of chance as there are definitely specific strategies and choices that will help you get ahead, but there's enough randomness that you can't rely on a singular playstyle to carry you through the game (which I feel ends up making a lot of games feel boring after a while). You do have to make adjustments and take risks sometimes which is fun.

4) It Has Great Replay Value. For one thing, because you never know what to expect from a draw or dice roll, each game will always be filled with surprises, but still on the subject of strategy I've noticed the game changes significantly depending on the number of players you have. If you have more than three players then you're not guaranteed to get a pile of cards every turn, which greatly affects the usefullness of banking. The more players in a game, the less turns and less chances you have to get cards, which encourages a more risky playstyle. Additionally, there's an optional rule where you can choose to make the neutral facing on the die change from "you lose no cards" to "you lose EVERY card". While a bit silly and unbalanced, it certainly keeps things interesting and swings things back around to making banking cards more important.

5) It's Fast. A game of Push shouldn't take more than 10-20 minutes (it's mostly dependent on how indecisive people act when the risks are high), and it's very much the type of game that people immediately want to play another round of after it's over. It makes a perfect game to act as a prelude to a longer game or while waiting for other people to arrive, and I've brought it to pass time at hangouts like getting ready to see a movie or other events. And in that vein...

6) It's Very Portable. It really is nothing more than a deck of cards and a die. It fits easily into any bag, and without the casing you can probably fit it into your pockets if you wanted. A great game to bring traveling that doesn't take up too much space.

7) It's Cheap. It's like $13, so even if you're on the fence about trying it out it's not a major commitment.

Overall, while it may not satisfy people who enjoy more serious and hardcore tabletop games, I think it's a game that's ridiculously fun and easy to jump into. The element of risk-taking and the excitement that comes from daring to push your luck as far as it can go is always an incredible feeling in gaming and this game distills it into a very fast and fun experience. As I said, it has such a low commitment that I highly recommended giving it a chance even if you're unsure. I think it'll pay off.

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hmm... sounds interesting for sure. with no true hobby game nights in my near future, might be worth investing in for the non-gamer friends...
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has anyone ever played Dead Last? I had a ton of fun with that game one night but I don't think it's all that common

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WalrusJump posted...

has anyone ever played Dead Last? I had a ton of fun with that game one night but I don't think it's all that common

I've played it twice and it didn't go over very well either time. It seems like a game that only works well with the right group of people.

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Great_Paul posted...

It seems like a game that only works well with the right group of people.

that makes a lot of sense - i had a good group where we were all friends but didn't take getting witch hunted personally

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archiving this tomorrow!
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covid ruinin my board game days

at least ive had through the ages app

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