Poll of the Day > Who was right?

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Ogurisama
01/12/20 6:30:46 PM
#1:


Who was right?


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Greenfox111
01/12/20 6:52:27 PM
#2:


right about what...? this is a very vague question

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GreenKnight127
01/12/20 6:59:43 PM
#3:


I think it's a Death Note topic.

Havent seen it in a while. It was great, tho.

I'm pretty sure Light was right. He just let his ego get to him.

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Lokarin
01/12/20 7:34:45 PM
#4:


It's more of a Breaking Bad scenario, it's not a matter of right or wrong... but how far is too far

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Revelation34
01/12/20 7:45:48 PM
#5:


Light until he started killing innocents which was L's fault anyway. Wouldn't have happened if he never got involved.
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streamofthesky
01/12/20 7:50:15 PM
#6:


Revelation34 posted...
Light until he started killing innocents which was L's fault anyway. Wouldn't have happened if he never got involved.
He was literally killing innocents from the end of the first episode.
Or if you don't consider the guy pretending to be L an "innocent", then by like episode 4 or whenever it is he offs Ray Pember and the entire FBI team

Hell of a pretzel logic there, though. "If only they'd let me murder indiscriminately without investigating me, I wouldn't have to murder the authorities. Or their girlfriends. Or...who am I kidding? Basically anyone I feel like. It's all L's fault! Waaaa!"
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ParanoidObsessive
01/12/20 8:32:28 PM
#7:


The entire point of Death Note is pretty much to indicate that Light was a fuck up from the beginning. Having the Note didn't change him, it just revealed who he always was, right from the start. He was only the straight-A student who seemed like a good person because that's what society expected him to be, and the socially acceptable mask he wore because he wasn't willing to risk breaking the rules.

He wasn't a noble, good person who was slowly turned evil. He was basically a serial killer who figured out a way to put a noble face on his killing so people wouldn't object as strongly (a not-too-dissimilar mentality to the one being espoused by the Joker in The Dark Knight).
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GreenKnight127
01/12/20 9:07:41 PM
#8:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
The entire point of Death Note is pretty much to indicate that Light was a fuck up from the beginning. Having the Note didn't change him, it just revealed who he always was, right from the start. He was only the straight-A student who seemed like a good person because that's what society expected him to be, and the socially acceptable mask he wore because he wasn't willing to risk breaking the rules.

He wasn't a noble, good person who was slowly turned evil. He was basically a serial killer who figured out a way to put a noble face on his killing so people wouldn't object as strongly (a not-too-dissimilar mentality to the one being espoused by the Joker in The Dark Knight).

I mean, you're definitely not wrong. But I think there were more subtleties to it than that.

Light was a batshit crazy killer......but his first instinct was to kill bad people.

All the bad people.

He wanted to better the world.

And he could have been a LOT more sadistic than he was. He could have easily written some of the most gruesome, drawn-out, agonizing, torture deaths imaginable for his victims. But he didn't. He usually just let them die from a sudden heart attack. There's something to be said about that.

Most high school students would have started torturing and raping people like crazy.

Light took out the bad guys with calculated coldbloodedness.

He wasn't entirely bad.

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PMarth2002
01/12/20 11:47:00 PM
#9:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
. He was basically a serial killer who figured out a way to put a noble face on his killing so people wouldn't object as strongly

GreenKnight127 posted...
He wasn't entirely bad.

Just as planned.

Seriously though, Light's method was effective, but in the long term, it could never last beyond Light or a possible successor. Someone worse would inevitably end up with it, or things would go back to normal

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Revelation34
01/13/20 3:15:22 AM
#10:


streamofthesky posted...
He was literally killing innocents from the end of the first episode.
Or if you don't consider the guy pretending to be L an "innocent", then by like episode 4 or whenever it is he offs Ray Pember and the entire FBI team

Hell of a pretzel logic there, though. "If only they'd let me murder indiscriminately without investigating me, I wouldn't have to murder the authorities. Or their girlfriends. Or...who am I kidding? Basically anyone I feel like. It's all L's fault! Waaaa!"


He was stated to be a death row convict. Also Ray Pember wouldn't have happened if L hadn't been involved. None of them would have.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
The entire point of Death Note is pretty much to indicate that Light was a fuck up from the beginning. Having the Note didn't change him, it just revealed who he always was, right from the start. He was only the straight-A student who seemed like a good person because that's what society expected him to be, and the socially acceptable mask he wore because he wasn't willing to risk breaking the rules.

He wasn't a noble, good person who was slowly turned evil. He was basically a serial killer who figured out a way to put a noble face on his killing so people wouldn't object as strongly (a not-too-dissimilar mentality to the one being espoused by the Joker in The Dark Knight).


Sounds like your own personal interpretation.
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TheSlinja
01/13/20 3:19:50 AM
#11:


Yeah like, I was rooting for light but he was def out of pocket from jump
He's a fun character but I wouldnt want anyone to have that power IRL. no matter how much of the best interests of the world they claim to have

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Lokarin
01/13/20 3:37:40 AM
#12:


What would happen if you used a carbongram (or whatever it's called) to print phonebook entries into the Death Note?

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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 3:39:58 AM
#13:


GreenKnight127 posted...
Most high school students would have started torturing and raping people like crazy.

You scare me.
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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 3:40:53 AM
#14:


Lokarin posted...
What would happen if you used a carbongram (or whatever it's called) to print phonebook entries into the Death Note?

You need a face with the name.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Lokarin
01/13/20 3:41:04 AM
#15:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
You scare me.

Highschool students should be the thing that scares you

Kyuubi4269 posted... You need a face with the name.

Ooops, I legit forgot

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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 3:47:02 AM
#16:


Lokarin posted...
Highschool students should be the thing that scares you

No, just people who think it's normal to want to use power to rape and torture.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Amuseum
01/13/20 3:48:56 AM
#17:


Light himself is full of fallacy and logical dissonance.

He assumes himself as the lone ultimate authority on "justice". Who thinks his methods are superior to the more methodical and fair justice systems, that tend to give the benefit of the doubt to suspects and criminals.

The logical dissonance is that he believes the best way to rid evil is through evil means. To the extent of neglecting or sacrificing certain universally acknowledged good or benevolent principles, as long as the ends justify the means.

These are dangerous people and ideologies. They think they are always right, and will destroy anybody who gets in their way. They justify their "chaotic evil" as "good". The most dangerous part is that the masses can be convinced to side with them and their antisocial behavior.
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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 4:06:00 AM
#18:


Amuseum posted...
The logical dissonance is that he believes the best way to rid evil is through evil means. To the extent of neglecting or sacrificing certain universally acknowledged good or benevolent principles, as long as the ends justify the means.

That's not logical dissonance, that's pragmatism. Letting a criminal go free because the system failed is logical dissonance as it's being willing to not punish criminals in the interest of punishing criminals.

Amuseum posted...
The most dangerous part is that the masses can be convinced to side with them and their antisocial behavior.

It's dangerous because it's well-reasoned. It turns out a large block of people don't agree with your perception of morality, and rather than justifying your stance and admitting your failings, you favour branding dissent as evil.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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TheSlinja
01/13/20 4:12:06 AM
#19:


big suprise kyuubi is a light sympathizer who would have seen it coming

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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 4:19:20 AM
#20:


TheSlinja posted...
big suprise kyuubi is a light sympathizer who would have seen it coming

It's almost as though he's the main character because it is a sympathetic situation.
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TheSlinja
01/13/20 4:27:08 AM
#21:


most people have this view of light because he is the protagonist, not because he is in a sympathetic situation
they only think of it through lights view or what they claim they would do with the book

picture this though you are as you are now,
someone in the world (not you) gets the death note and starts offing people, but swear they will only use it for good trust me guys for real
who the fuck is okay with that

also for being so (rightly) critical of the judicial system you seem just as eager to have someone kill off people branded as criminals through it as though it lets guilty people go free but simultaneously is always right about who is guilty?

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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 4:40:53 AM
#22:


TheSlinja posted...
picture this though you are as you are now,
someone in the world (not you) gets the death note and starts offing people, but swear they will only use it for good trust me guys for real
who the fuck is okay with that

That's an issue of trust, not function. Let's also note that he is revealed after known criminals are killed by him. He's a vigilante, it's like the people who mourned the death of a mob boss because his illegal actions did stop other criminals.

TheSlinja posted...
also for being so (rightly) critical of the judicial system you seem just as eager to have someone kill off people branded as criminals through it as though it lets guilty people go free but simultaneously is always right about who is guilty?

You are always going to get innocents who slip through the net regardless of what we do, I feel we are too fearful of the inevitable to do the necessary. I'm fine with more innocents getting wrongly punished to ensure criminals are definitely punished.

As it stands, the law is so weak at catching actual criminals that moral actions are criminalised to spread the catch net wide enough to catch the criminals who slide out on vagueries.

People go to prison for self-defense not because we think their actions aren't reasonable, but because being loose about self-defense lets immoral people pretend they were acting defending themselves and get away with it. We arrest people falsely in that regard but we let it go because it's categorised as a bad for convenience. If we're willing to arrest people for protecting themselves, why not be willing to stretch the rules to make sure criminals don't walk away in other ways?
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Smoking_Hamster
01/13/20 5:32:56 AM
#23:


Who cares who was right. It was a terrible movie.
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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 5:51:14 AM
#24:


Smoking_Hamster posted...
Who cares who was right. It was a terrible movie.

It was a manga, anime and musical.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Ogurisama
01/13/20 12:03:17 PM
#25:


Smoking_Hamster posted...
Who cares who was right. It was a terrible movie.
The Netflix movie was bad yes.
There is also 2 movies made in Japan.
It was a Manga before anything though, the anime is follows it with little filler/anime only scenes.

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Revelation34
01/13/20 2:57:59 PM
#26:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
You are always going to get innocents who slip through the net regardless of what we do, I feel we are too fearful of the inevitable to do the necessary. I'm fine with more innocents getting wrongly punished to ensure criminals are definitely punished.


Then you are the worst kind of person.
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Nade Duck
01/13/20 3:02:25 PM
#27:


they were on a break.

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Ogurisama
01/13/20 3:03:25 PM
#28:


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GreenKnight127
01/13/20 5:23:55 PM
#29:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
No, just people who think it's normal to want to use power to rape and torture.

Have you met the average high schooler these days?

Powder kegs of raw emotion and sexual repression. A lot of them are bullied, too.

God protect us all if a Death Note were to ever fall into their hands for real.

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Nade Duck
01/13/20 5:31:15 PM
#30:


Ogurisama posted...
Wrong show little duckling
my b

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Zeus
01/13/20 5:49:07 PM
#31:


Thanos.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
The entire point of Death Note is pretty much to indicate that Light was a fuck up from the beginning. Having the Note didn't change him, it just revealed who he always was, right from the start. He was only the straight-A student who seemed like a good person because that's what society expected him to be, and the socially acceptable mask he wore because he wasn't willing to risk breaking the rules.

He wasn't a noble, good person who was slowly turned evil. He was basically a serial killer who figured out a way to put a noble face on his killing so people wouldn't object as strongly (a not-too-dissimilar mentality to the one being espoused by the Joker in The Dark Knight).

Clearly he crossed a few moral event horizons throughout the course of Death Note, but calling him evil is overly simplistic since iirc his ultimate agenda wasn't actually selfish and he was specifically punishing wrongdoers (as opposed to the indiscriminate violence of the Joker in The Dark Knight which was the *same* attitude reflected in the comics)

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TigerTycoon
01/13/20 5:52:12 PM
#32:


Ross
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streamofthesky
01/13/20 5:57:00 PM
#33:


Zeus posted...
Clearly he crossed a few moral event horizons throughout the course of Death Note, but calling him evil is overly simplistic since iirc his ultimate agenda wasn't actually selfish and he was specifically punishing wrongdoers (as opposed to the indiscriminate violence of the Joker in The Dark Knight which was the *same* attitude reflected in the comics)
So, when a lone vigilante dishes out extrajudicial execution on criminals without any sort of trial or set of rules, you'll defend it because he's "specifically punishing wrong-doers" (including people already in jail and not a threat to society, and people who are suspects in a crime and may actually be innocent).

But if a democratic government following legal procedures agreed upon by society at large executes a criminal after a trial and conviction based on evidence and witness testimony, and a lengthy period of appeals by the criminal....
It's appalling and wrong.

What the actual fuck?
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Kyuubi4269
01/13/20 5:59:27 PM
#34:


Revelation34 posted...
Then you are the worst kind of person.

The legal system already does this in certain cases, so the legal system is also "the worst kind of person".

GreenKnight127 posted...


Have you met the average high schooler these days?

Powder kegs of raw emotion and sexual repression. A lot of them are bullied, too.

God protect us all if a Death Note were to ever fall into their hands for real.

Do you think there was a magic switch point where all kids were just born evil?

Normal humans do not think that's normal in the first world, it is completely outside the realm of tolerance and if it's anywhere close to normal where you live, it needs to get glassed.
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Zeus
01/13/20 6:15:31 PM
#35:


streamofthesky posted...
So, when a lone vigilante dishes out extrajudicial execution on criminals without any sort of trial or set of rules, you'll defend it because he's "specifically punishing wrong-doers" (including people already in jail and not a threat to society, and people who are suspects in a crime and may actually be innocent).

But if a democratic government following legal procedures agreed upon by society at large executes a criminal after a trial and conviction based on evidence and witness testimony, and a lengthy period of appeals by the criminal....
It's appalling and wrong.

What the actual fuck?

I didn't say it wasn't wrong or appalling, I said that calling him evil was overly simplistic because his motives were -- at face value -- no different than the order imposed by government. The fact that you somehow believe that government enacting these same decisions is right simply because the decision-making involves extra steps and appeals to an all-powerful central authority is scary, though. Murder by committee has no virtue over murder by individual. Right and wrong is a separate dimension from good and evil.

And pretending that legal proceeding can wash your hands of blood is the same kind of mentality used to excuse horrific atrocities committed by governments.

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Raddest_Chad
01/13/20 7:29:23 PM
#36:


Light. Definitely.
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Revelation34
01/14/20 3:06:38 AM
#37:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
The legal system already does this in certain cases, so the legal system is also "the worst kind of person".


Citation needed.
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zhangliao1
01/14/20 4:57:09 AM
#38:


L

the death note corrupts it's user light was always going to go off the deep end and it would have gotten worse the longer he had it

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Revelation34
01/14/20 3:12:53 PM
#39:


zhangliao1 posted...
L

the death note corrupts it's user light was always going to go off the deep end and it would have gotten worse the longer he had it


Citation needed.
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NejiHyuga900
01/14/20 5:02:58 PM
#40:


Light's justice system was very effective at reducing crime rate and Light wanted a crime-free world but I imagine it made him feel like a fearful tyrant to many people. Tyrants would often have rebellion armies fighting back (L and his crew) to restore the peace the world previously had. Even though the standard justice system wasn't as effective as Light's "dark justice" system in terms of reducing crime rates, people wouldn't have to live in fear with the regular justice system except I don't really like the Japanese justice system where suspects are "guilty until proven innocent" as opposed to America's "innocent until proven guilty" justice system.

Every type of justice system (whether they are fair or unfair) have their own flaws. There is no perfect justice system that would consistently make everyone be happy, be in freedom, and be in harmony.

Smoking_Hamster posted...
Who cares who was right. It was a terrible movie.
If you are talking about that Netflix adaptation, we don't speak of that abomination. If you were talking about the Japanese movies, those were okay, as well as the live action drama series in my opinion. The anime and manga are pure gold and we only talk about those.

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Amuseum
01/15/20 6:52:07 AM
#41:


NejiHyuga900 posted...
Light's justice system was very effective at reducing crime rate.


This requires belief that his system would actually work in real Life. People will do crazy or dangerous things even well knowing the consequences. Even when those consequences are high probability of losing one's life.

In other words, punishment by death is not as effective a deterrent as this fiction advertises.

aside IIRC the Japanese actor won awards and acclaim for portraying L.
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