Current Events > The concern trolling over Xbox is weird

(+) Yeah! (+)

SoundNetwork posted...

Exclusives drive competition. Sony needs to stop being at the top because they start doing some greedy fucked up things when they're not behind

Sony doing greedy shit won't have anything to do with console exclusives, I feel.

Plus MS trying to be this accessible is an interesting move, and I look forward to seeing how this impacts the Xbox going forward.

I will say though, if this kills the Xbox, I'm gonna miss the controllers. Hopefully they continue on.

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Romulox28 posted...

on paper gamepass sounds like a fantastic deal but imo in practice i think it has limited appeal, most people are not going to be taking advantage of everything on the service and are probably better off just buying the specific games they want individually.

I used Game Pass to play Gears 5 and Outer Worlds. Those alone cost more than what I paid for Game Pass. On top of that I had the option to play them on either Xbox or PC. Right now I'm using it to play Afterparty which I probably wouldn't have bought due to its timing but now I don't need to worry about that.

After being done with those games I probably won't play them again. If I'm way in the future and want to own them for whatever reason I could probably buy them for super cheap anyway.

sylverlolol posted...

The problem isn't exclusives, per say, but that studios will always need to take the lowest common denominator into accout -- the base X1. That means games are either going to be developed with that in mind and then upscaled or there are going to be multiple different teams working on multiple different titles which is going to cause budgets to inflate rapidly.

That could be an issue but we haven't seen how it plays out yet. Higher budgets doesn't really concern gamers.

The first couple of years of a consoles life are generally filled with crossgenish games anyway and aren't overly crazy.
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Tired-Insomniac posted...

The fuck

Did it get a price drop? I'm probably just gonna pick a One X up with Halo Infinite this year instead of a SeX

Not a total one yet but it was like $350 USD for One X bundles for Black Friday.
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Darmik posted...

The first couple of years of a consoles life are generally filled with crossgenish games anyway and aren't overly crazy.

While true, we're dealing with a new trend here that must also include the mid-gen refreshes so developers will have to account for the base X1, the X1X, the Lockhart, and then the Series X (if that's all still the plan, anyway). Its a lot of extra overhead that we, as gamers, may not care about...but rest assured the bean counters most certainly will (especially when it comes to profit margins).

Either way, I'm sure I'll get a Series X at some point.

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also, LMAO at brand loyalty
always get a crack when sony and microsoft shills are having circle jerk competitions. these companies dont give a fuck about you so idk why people are slurping on their behalf

sylverlolol posted...

The problem isn't exclusives, per say, but that studios will always need to take the lowest common denominator into accout -- the base X1. That means games are either going to be developed with that in mind and then upscaled or there are going to be multiple different teams working on multiple different titles which is going to cause budgets to inflate rapidly.

PC games have been doing that since forever though

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sylverlolol posted...

While true, we're dealing with a new trend here that must also include the mid-gen refreshes so developers will have to account for the base X1, the X1X, the Lockhart, and then the Series X (if that's all still the plan, anyway). Its a lot of extra overhead that we, as gamers, may not care about...but rest assured the bean counters most certainly will (especially when it comes to profit margins).

Either way, I'm sure I'll get a Series X at some point.

The bean counters are 100% thinking about Game Pass subscribers who aren't upgrading early. They don't want to lose them. I think there's a reason they tried to lock people in for three years with deals last year.

Once they're confident they're at the point most subscribers have moved on from Xbox One those games will get dropped quick.

A lot of base Xbox One games are probably gonna run like garbage though. It's already sort of at that point. But their goal is probably stuff like how Titanfall and Rise of the Tomb Raider handled crossgen.
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A next gen console having exclusives at launch or in the launch window is so crucial for a next gen console to have success and to compete. What an absurd thing for Microsoft to say. They have to at least have cross gen first party games within the launch window for the Xbox Series X.

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GameboyTroy posted...

A next gen console having exclusives at launch or in the launch window is so crucial for a next gen console to have success and to compete. What an absurd thing for Microsoft to say. They have to at least have cross gen first party games within the launch window for the Xbox Series X.

They will have crossgen first party games on launch. Halo Infinite is their big one.
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Darmik posted...

Their backwards compatibility initiative for Xbox One is probably the most pro-consumer a console company has ever been.

The PS3 was literally 100% BC with PS2 and PSOne games at launch

Also, PSP and PS3 digital purchases (PSOne games, primarily) were almost always cross-buy, which was super handy

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DarkRoast posted...

The PS3 was literally 100% BC with PS2 and PSOne games at launch

And then...
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Bio1590 posted...

And then...

Microsoft sold an HDMI-less, 20 GB proprietary HDD, no-WiFi, DVD-instead-of-BLU-RAY Xbox 360 that broke in 1-2 years and was declared "consumer friendly" because it was $200 cheaper.

Meanwhile the PS3 you bought at launch still remains one of the best BD players on the market, uses non-proprietary HDDs that can be upgraded easily... and has wifi.


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DarkRoast posted...

The PS3 was literally 100% BC with PS2 and PSOne games at launch

Yes because they included that hardware.

Microsoft invest money into making old games work and also has enhanced many games to modern resolutions quality for free if you own the games. An initiative that will carry over to their future hardware.
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Darmik posted...

Yes because they included that hardware.

Microsoft invest money into making old games work and also has enhanced many games to modern resolutions quality for free if you own the games. An initiative that will carry over to their future hardware.

No, Microsoft took advantage of the fact that the Xbox 360 (aside from the PowerPC CPU architecture) was vastly more similar to modern PC hardware than the PS3 was.

The PS3's Cell architecture was designed by absolute morons, and emulating it is completely bonkers. The Cell CPU was absolutely awful at some things and mind-numbingly advanced at other things.

Xbox One and PS4 games are going to be easily compatible with the next Xbox and PS5, because both systems used pretty much off-the-shelf PC CPUs and GPUs.

It's nothing to boast about. It's not revolutionary. It's the natural evolution of the shift away from proprietary console architectures.

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DarkRoast posted...

No, Microsoft took advantage of the fact that the Xbox 360 (aside from the PowerPC CPU architecture) was vastly more similar to modern PC hardware than the PS3 was.

The PS3's Cell architecture was designed by absolute morons, and emulating it is completely bonkers. The Cell CPU was absolutely awful at some things and mind-numbingly advanced at other things.

Xbox One and PS4 games are going to be easily compatible with the next Xbox and PS5, because both systems used pretty much off-the-shelf PC CPUs and GPUs.

It's nothing to boast about. It's not revolutionary. It's the natural evolution of the shift away from proprietary console architectures.

So what you're saying is that Sony should exceed or match it for PS5?

Because I've never seen any other console company bump up older games resolutions and image quality for free.
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Darmik posted...

So what you're saying is that Sony should exceed or match it for PS5?

Because I've never seen any other console company bump up older games resolutions and image quality for free.

Sony already said the PS5 will be compatible with PS4.

And the PS3 and PS2 both up-scaled PSOne games. The PS2 actually had some extra texture filtering options as well.

If the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro have shown us anything, it's that games that are not explicitly optimized for them generally benefit more on the side of frame rates and load times. I suspect you'd have to release individual patches for XO and PS4 games to run at 4K on the next systems, much like how it currently works with X and Pro.


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DarkRoast posted...

Sony already said the PS5 will be compatible with PS4

Yeah so going by your logic Sony should easily upscale them to 4k yeah?

DarkRoast posted...

And the PS3 and PS2 both up-scaled PSOne games. The PS2 actually had some extra texture filtering options as well.

They did not render PS1 games in modern resolutions and the PS4 does not carry over any of your old PS1 or PS2 purchases. There is no guarantee future Playstations will either.

DarkRoast posted...

If the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro have shown us anything, it's that games that are not explicitly optimized for them generally benefit more on the side of frame rates and load times. I suspect you'd have to release individual patches for XO and PS4 games to run at 4K on the next systems, much like how it currently works with X and Pro.

And yet Xbox One X upscaled OG Xbox games and 360 games in 4k because of work Microsoft did.

Which apparently is;
DarkRoast posted...

It's nothing to boast about. It's not revolutionary. It's the natural evolution of the shift away from proprietary console architectures.

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cmiller4642 posted...

Halo, Gears, and Forza brah!!!

Dude we get it you vape

And yet Xbox One X upscaled OG Xbox games and 360 games in 4k because of work Microsoft did.

Only for select games. Ones with specific 4K patches. It's not like you can stick any Xbox or Xbox 360 game in the X1X and play it in upscaled 4K.

If you actually think they're going to release 4K patches for every game from this generation, you're in for disappointment.

At very best, you SHOULD be able to count on the vast majority of X1 and PS4 games working natively on the next systems. But actually improving underlying visual fidelity will have a dramatic variability in terms of performance hit.

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DarkRoast posted...

And yet Xbox One X upscaled OG Xbox games and 360 games in 4k because of work Microsoft did.

Only for select games. Ones with specific 4K patches. It's not like you can stick any Xbox or Xbox 360 game in the X1X and play it in upscaled 4K.

If you actually think they're going to release 4K patches for every game from this generation, you're in for disappointment.

At very best, you SHOULD be able to count on the vast majority of X1 and PS4 games working natively on the next systems. But actually improving underlying visual fidelity will have a dramatic variability in terms of performance hit.

Dude I've literally said that the only reason it exists at all is due to work Microsoft is doing. I would have never expected to play my digital copy of Gears 3 from 2010 in 4k for free. I would never have expected to be able to play a 4k copy of Splinter Cell after buying a copy for $2 from a second hand store. Hell back in 2013 I never expected the Xbox One to have BC at all. This stuff has only ever been done on PC before this. Any game they do this for goes above and beyond what has been done in the past.

I'm not expecting it work across every game but because of how Microsoft has handled it this generation I expect their efforts to be better than PlayStation. Who have only sold remasters and enhanced PS2 games that don't check if you own them on your PSN account.
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DarkRoast posted...

Microsoft sold an HDMI-less, 20 GB proprietary HDD, no-WiFi, DVD-instead-of-BLU-RAY Xbox 360 that broke in 1-2 years and was declared "consumer friendly" because it was $200 cheaper.

Meanwhile the PS3 you bought at launch still remains one of the best BD players on the market, uses non-proprietary HDDs that can be upgraded easily... and has wifi.

You mean the company that actually owned the Blu-ray trademark was willing to take a huge hit (even at the meme price point) by including it?

Also imagine ignoring the YLoD issue for the original launch PS3s if you're gonna bring up 360s breaking lol, especially considering the YLoD is/was literally inevitable with those models

Also my "and then" was directed at the fact Sony removed that BC in later consoles to save themselves money and then ended up re-selling digital versions of PS2 games on the PS Store.
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I agree completely TC. The only people who have ever been against this is are angry Sony fans who desperately need exclusives to justify their system of choice and PC elitists who need any reason they can to look down at consoles. Like why would I ever get a console if all the games are on PC. You were never getting a console, the fuck are you on about.

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SwayM posted...

the fuck are you on about.

triple a devs and publishers forcing limits on themselves and hindering innovation for the sake of selling games on inferior hardware and other poor industry practices created by the console market

Evening_Dragon posted...

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GREEN_EGGSNSPAM posted...

While Microsoft doesn't care about the exclusives, the customers are just stuck with a system with games that are already on Playstation.

Exclusives (at least first party) are not nearly as important to the casual console user as many on CE think, and exclusives are even less important to the fanboy.

Nobody that is an Xbox fanboy gives a shit about The Last of Us or Uncharted. Just like PS4 fanboys don't give a shit about Halo or Gears.

Similarly, nobody bought PS4 at launch because of exclusives. They literally bought it because it was cheaper than the Xbox One while also being more powerful at the time.

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Exclusives can be important but context for when and how they're important is...also important.

Breath of the Wild also being on Wii U didn't hurt the Switch at all. People bought a Switch to play it.

If Halo Infinite ends up being some amazing game console players will most likely want to play that on a Series X. So it does the job.
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"it has no exclusives at launch" is a really dumb point against it because almost every console ever has had zero launch exclusive titles that were actually worth playing

Ms has no games why does xbox exist pc does everything the xbox does better exclusives matter they drive console sales

CADE FOSTER posted...

Ms has no games why does xbox exist pc does everything the xbox does better exclusives matter they drive console sales

More people play Gears 5 on Xbox One than PC.

That's why the Xbox exists.
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Darmik posted...

Exclusives can be important but context for when and how they're important is...also important.

Breath of the Wild also being on Wii U didn't hurt the Switch at all. People bought a Switch to play it.

If Halo Infinite ends up being some amazing game console players will most likely want to play that on a Series X. So it does the job.

I don't even factor Nintendo into these discussions because they're a whole different thing, although I guess at this point you could argue that all three are becoming their own thing which is why I get so perplexed at CE's insistence that Sony's exclusives mean so much.

Exclusives mattered a lot more when there was an actual large amount of exclusives due to third parties having to pick sides due to cultural/techincal reasons. SNES and Genesis and Nintendo 64 and Playstation have damn near completely different libraries because of how different games were on the platforms. Playstation 2 exclusives mattered a lot more when Japanese third parties were hesitant to even do anything with Xbox. Exclusives when the property is Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, or anything else that had a legacy mattered a lot more than Sony's new IP's they trot out every generation. And with the way gaming works now, these legacy series are rarely if ever exclusive to a single platform. Hell they tend to not even be exclusive to consoles anymore.

Do they matter? Sure. Not anywhere near as much as CE likes to think. Most people I know that own a PS4 don't even own Uncharted 4, The Last of Us or God of War.

And this isn't meant to be directed at you specifically Darmik I'm just kind of throwing my thoughts out there while also replying to you bringing up Nintendo just FYI

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Yeah exclusives help but they're not the end all be all. At the end of the day the most popular game on both Xbox One and PS4 was GTAV. Which was a last gen game.
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HerpToTheDerp posted...

triple a devs and publishers forcing limits on themselves and hindering innovation for the sake of selling games on inferior hardware and other poor industry practices created by the console market

Oh...you're this helpless eh?

Yikes.

It really doesn't matter what I say, you literally can't imagine a world where people don't want to own PC's...

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SwayM posted...

Oh...you're this helpless eh?

Yikes.

It really doesn't matter what I say, you literally can't imagine a world where people don't want to own PC's...

yes, ignorance and lazyness, the only reasons consoles continue to thrive, will always be present in this world. people like you are a testament to that

HerpToTheDerp posted...

yes, ignorance and lazyness, the only reasons consoles continue to thrive, will always be present in this world. people like you are a testament to that

PC Elitists are the absolute worst form of gamers and that's saying something.

Continue to live in your bubble, and do us a favour and interact with people less than you already do.

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sylverlolol posted...

The problem isn't exclusives, per say, but that studios will always need to take the lowest common denominator into accout -- the base X1. That means games are either going to be developed with that in mind and then upscaled or there are going to be multiple different teams working on multiple different titles which is going to cause budgets to inflate rapidly.

That's not how video games are made lol.

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no thats console shills that piss and shit all over each other and then cry and act like a victim when they're put in their place. calling each other sony ponies, xbots, nintendrones, and other schoolyard insults with their "my dad can beat up your dad" childlike mentality.

ill admit im a dick, but most pc gamers just want to play games in their best form without having to buy 3 additional boxes and their respective proprietary accessories.

HerpToTheDerp posted...

ill admit im a dick, but most pc gamers just want to play games in their best form without having to buy 3 additional boxes and their respective proprietary accessories.

So they should have no problem with what Microsoft is doing because they agree with you.
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Darmik posted...

So they should have no problem with what Microsoft is doing because they agree with you.

and i applaud them for that and hope they continue this business model going forward. microsoft as a whole i hold little contempt for. same with nintendo since they actually tried to innovate with the switch and there's no replacing portable gaming

Jiggy101011 posted...

That's not how video games are made lol.

lmao

thats exactly how it happens at the start of each gen with cross-gen titles.

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sylverlolol posted...

lmao

thats exactly how it happens at the start of each gen with cross-gen titles.

Dev's dont upscale and make a game for the lowest console, otherwise you would see every 3rd party game on the Switch at launch. Dev's downscale like you had with Shadow of Mordor and the Nemesis system being taken out of the 360/PS3 gen compared to the PS4/Xbox One.

Games will be made for the Series X/PS5 and then downscaled for One/PS4. Its how PC gaming is developed for and how mobile is developed for.

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This topic has already aged in an interesting way after the Horizon Zero Dawn news.

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Its a great buy if youve skipped X1X.