Current Events > Frozen 2 was excellent and, in some ways, better/bolder than the first

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 11:41:19 AM
#1:


Highly confused how anyone who liked Frozen or likes Disney musicals was not impressed, tbh.

It has a really smart musical score, for one. It may have lacked something as momentous and lasting as Let It Go or Do You Want to Build a Snowman, but it was written a little more like a real stage musical with lots of very clever structure and good tunes. And, as a music nerd, the songs were pretty adventurous with time signatures, interesting progressions, and the recurring use of the siren motif in multiple songs. Really intelligent writing. The way Into the Unknown weaves the siren bit into it as an almost dissonant counter was neat as hell.

Plot-wise, it meaningfully built out the world in fairly bold ways, and avoided ever feeling like it was painted by numbers. I guess you could say the characters didnt really go anywhere unexpected, but meh. It was touching and had a good amount to say to a primary audience of young people who have now gotten a little older.

Add in that the majority of the jokes land, and with legit laugh-out-loud punch at that, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Totally worthy entry and far surpassed my fears for a straight-to-video sequel quality.

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AvantgardeAClue
01/11/20 11:44:34 AM
#2:


I'm glad they finally recognized Anna as the main character in this one.

I also like the story expansion into explaining what happened to their parents as well as Elsa's powers.

Probably darker than the first one too. Hella character deaths and remember when their grandfather King was plotting to kill the leader of the not-Indians?

I like how it had songs but didn't lean on them too much like the first one. That one scene where Elsa saw her past self singing Let It Go and became embarassed was perfect lol

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 11:53:04 AM
#3:


AvantgardeAClue posted...
I'm glad they finally recognized Anna as the main character in this one.

I also like the story expansion into explaining what happened to their parents as well as Elsa's powers.

Probably darker than the first one too. Hella character deaths and remember when their grandfather King was plotting to kill the leader of the not-Indians?

I like how it had songs but didn't lean on them too much like the first one. That one scene where Elsa saw her past self singing Let It Go and became embarassed was perfect lol
Yeah, the stuff with Arandelles past was definitely strong messaging that people can be good and live in a good place and yet have really bad people in charge.

Well stated about how this one relied less on the songs carrying everything worthwhile about the film. They were more used as punctuation marks here, to good effect.

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Lairen
01/11/20 11:55:18 AM
#4:


I didnt stop hearing about frozen 1.

Ive forgot 2 was a thing and no ones singing any song at all from it.

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 11:58:29 AM
#5:


Lairen posted...
I didnt stop hearing about frozen 1.

Ive forgot 2 was a thing and no ones singing any song at all from it.
Like I said, it probably doesnt have an individual hit as world-conquering as Let It Go. However, judging a musical by how popular is its most popular song? is a really shoddy measuring stick.

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Lairen
01/11/20 12:00:05 PM
#6:


Blackstar110 posted...
Like I said, it probably doesnt have an individual hit as world-conquering as Let It Go. However, judging a musical by how popular is its most popular song? is a really shoddy measuring stick.

Yet its the whole first movie and without one 2 doesnt compare.

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 12:06:10 PM
#7:


Lairen posted...
Yet its the whole first movie and without one 2 doesnt compare.
Im not sure what youre talking about or if youve seen either movie so Im gonna stop engaging you now

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The Trent
01/11/20 12:11:18 PM
#8:


i don't see how anyone can think 2 is better than the first, like, at all

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Sariana21
01/11/20 12:35:45 PM
#9:


The first one had a flawed story line. Hans was totally unneeded as a villain; they should have stuck with Weasel (and his goons) as the villain and left Hans as an unimportant distracition representing Anna's immaturity (and desperate loneliness). That "twist" was illogical and unnecessary.

Also, I've always thought it odd that the songs end only about halfway through the movie ("Fixer Upper" is the last song). That fact combined with the "twist" makes it seem like two different storylines awkwardly combined.

The second movie was kind of convoluted but more tightly written, and it was a "musical" throughout. I agree with TC that the music itself was more sophisticated, which leads to the complaint that there is no "memorable" song. No, it's just that the songs are more difficult to sing--they were written for singers because the actors basically proved their chops in the first movie. My daughter does go around singing some of the songs, but she had to spend time listening to the CD to learn them this time. (Her favorite is "Show Yourself.")

My only complaint with 2 is Anna's weird insecurity regarding Kristoff. I know they needed a reason for him to have multiple "fails," but her reactions seemed out of character.

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 12:42:26 PM
#10:


^All good points. I read Annas insecurity as just being in a vulnerable place, though, which made sense.

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Hambo the Hog
01/11/20 12:43:03 PM
#11:


Sariana21 posted...
My only complaint with 2 is Anna's weird insecurity regarding Kristoff. I know they needed a reason for him to have multiple "fails," but her reactions seemed out of character.
Those parts were stupid as hell. Just cuz Kristoff apparently needed something to do in the film, they flip the bimbo switch on Anna every time he tries to propose. It's horribly out of character and never funny enough to warrant it.

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Wetterdew
01/11/20 12:56:08 PM
#12:


I don't think it hits Frozen's highs, but I still think it's a great movie. To be fair, I think Frozen is Disney's best animated movie.

Frozen 2 has great music even if it takes more time to learn the songs.

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Skye Reynolds
01/11/20 12:57:25 PM
#13:


AvantgardeAClue posted...
I'm glad they finally recognized Anna as the main character in this one.

Aaaaaand now I can see why people didn't like it.
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Blackstar110
01/11/20 12:59:57 PM
#14:


Skye Reynolds posted...
Aaaaaand now I can see why people didn't like it.
I dunno if Id say Anna was any more the main character than Elsa was, but it was pretty close to 50/50.

Honestly, I think Anna felt more like the main character to me in the first one, but maybe thats just me.

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Hambo the Hog
01/11/20 1:02:21 PM
#15:


Blackstar110 posted...
I dunno if Id say Anna was any more the main character than Elsa was, but it was pretty close to 50/50.

Honestly, I think Anna felt more like the main character to me in the first one, but maybe thats just me.
Nah this sounds right. Anna was the star of the first and they share the spotlight more in the second.

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 1:04:39 PM
#16:


Wetterdew posted...
I don't think it hits Frozen's highs, but I still think it's a great movie. To be fair, I think Frozen is Disney's best animated movie.

Frozen 2 has great music even if it takes more time to learn the songs.
Fair take. I think its better and more consistent throughout, but doesnt have a Let It Go or a DYWBaS? Maybe For the First Time in Forever goes in there too, but I dont wanna sell Into the Unknown, Show Yourself, The Next Right Thing, etc short. Theyre really great.

For a joke song of sorts, Lost in the Woods is awfully good too. Funny but also genuinely heartfelt.

Really, its what you said. The songs are less instantly catchy/singable but overall just as good. Its a bit more Sondheim and a bit less Andrew Lloyd Webber.

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Lairen
01/11/20 2:43:34 PM
#17:


Blackstar110 posted...
Im not sure what youre talking about or if youve seen either movie so Im gonna stop engaging you now

Im sorry frozen 1 is mediocre without Let It Go and no ones cares about 2 cause it doesnt have any real bangers.

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Blackstar110
01/11/20 4:38:28 PM
#18:


Lairen posted...
Im sorry frozen 1 is mediocre without Let It Go and no ones cares about 2 cause it doesnt have any real bangers.
Lol

yikes

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Skye Reynolds
01/11/20 4:44:32 PM
#19:


The first movie was fun, putting the hype aside, but I'd have done a double-take if I'd seen it and found out that it was more popular than The Lion King.

Anna may have been the true star of the film, but I didn't notice that because Elsa was more interesting. Not only was Elsa better looking, more commanding of respect, and endowed with special powers... but Anna was low-key annoying. She's not the worst. She's not Jar Jar. She's just a little too chipper for my tastes. Her smile is almost sickeningly sweet.
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Blackstar110
01/11/20 11:15:59 PM
#20:


Up

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AlisLandale
01/11/20 11:18:15 PM
#21:


Frozen 2 was boring tbh. It had clip-show energy.

Maybe if they made a movie about all the stuff going on in the flashbacks, it would have been a lot more interesting.

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Blackstar110
01/12/20 9:46:56 AM
#22:


AlisLandale posted...
Frozen 2 was boring tbh. It had clip-show energy.

Maybe if they made a movie about all the stuff going on in the flashbacks, it would have been a lot more interesting.
Weird. I thought it was less jumpy and more cohesive than 1, plot-wise.

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DeadBankerDream
01/12/20 9:50:54 AM
#23:


Blackstar110 posted...
Weird. I thought it was less jumpy and more cohesive than 1, plot-wise.

No you didn't.
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Blackstar110
01/12/20 10:02:56 AM
#24:


DeadBankerDream posted...
No you didn't.
Wow youre right!


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DeadBankerDream
01/12/20 10:32:33 AM
#25:


I know I am. Thinking Frozen 2 is more coherent than Frozen is a troll opinion.
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The Trent
01/12/20 10:33:00 AM
#26:


DeadBankerDream posted...
I know I am. Thinking Frozen 2 is more coherent than Frozen is a troll opinion.

Yeah I'm not sure how anyone could have this takeaway

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Ludwig Von 2
01/12/20 10:34:12 AM
#27:


Frozen 2 is definitely better than the original. However, I thought the original was just okay, didnt put it on a pedestal like some.

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The Trent
01/12/20 10:34:51 AM
#28:


Can we all agree that moana kicks both frozens to the curb

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DeadBankerDream
01/12/20 10:35:37 AM
#29:


The Trent posted...
Can we all agree that moana kicks both frozens to the curb

You know we can't >:(
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#30
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Tired-Insomniac
01/12/20 10:39:33 AM
#31:


Olaf retelling the first movie's story was great

"Sisters TORN APART! At least they have their parents! Their parents are dead."

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DeadBankerDream
01/12/20 10:40:02 AM
#32:


No, they weren't. Frozen 2 definitely misused the established characters.
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Tyranthraxus
01/12/20 10:41:23 AM
#33:


I didn't like Frozen. It was a disjointed mess that felt like they wanted to adapt the ice queen story but then decided the ice queen should be a protagonist halfway through the movie and rewrote the entire second half to make no sense just so that they could market Elsa as a princess.

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Blackstar110
01/12/20 10:51:42 AM
#34:


DeadBankerDream posted...
I know I am. Thinking Frozen 2 is more coherent than Frozen is a troll opinion.
Agree with me or youre trolling!

I love the internet

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Lairen
01/12/20 10:53:10 AM
#35:


Remember those new, orginal characters and songs from the 2nd?

No, no one does.....

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Blackstar110
01/12/20 10:56:18 AM
#36:


Lairen posted...
Remember those new, orginal characters and songs from the 2nd?

No, no one does.....
Characters? No, since it was mostly the same cast. Songs? Yes!

Had no idea people got this up in their feelings about this. Frozen 1 is awesome and is superior to 2 in some ways as well.


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DeadBankerDream
01/12/20 10:56:30 AM
#37:


I remember the purple pascal.
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Wewillrocku
01/12/20 10:57:12 AM
#38:


that's good to hear, i've only seen the first frozen so far... but that doesn't bother me anyway.

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AlisLandale
01/12/20 10:59:52 AM
#39:


Blackstar110 posted...
Weird. I thought it was less jumpy and more cohesive than 1, plot-wise.

Im thinking moreso about how boring it is to watch a bunch of characters talking about cool shit that happened in the past, rather than just watching that cool shit go down in real time.

Like with a clip-show. Why are you watching the clip-show and not just the episodes with the actual story? >_>

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#40
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Blackstar110
01/12/20 11:35:49 AM
#41:


AlisLandale posted...
Im thinking moreso about how boring it is to watch a bunch of characters talking about cool shit that happened in the past, rather than just watching that cool shit go down in real time.

Like with a clip-show. Why are you watching the clip-show and not just the episodes with the actual story? >_>
Eh... I get what you mean to a degree, but what did you really need to see from the past that we didnt? I was more interested in finding the backstory, origin, and nature of Elsas powers.

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Sariana21
01/12/20 12:30:42 PM
#42:


Tyranthraxus posted...
I didn't like Frozen. It was a disjointed mess that felt like they wanted to adapt the ice queen story but then decided the ice queen should be a protagonist halfway through the movie and rewrote the entire second half to make no sense just so that they could market Elsa as a princess.
Yeah, that basically IS what happened. Elsa was supposed to be the villain, but then the Lopezes wrote "Let It Go," and the writers saw a different potential story. So they DID change the movie halfway through, and they didn't do a very good job of restructuring the rest of the story around the change.

I like Frozen and enjoy watching it (I have both a daughter and a sister, so there is that), but I acknowledge its very prominent flaws (one of which I commented on earlier in this topic).

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AvantgardeAClue
01/12/20 10:51:16 PM
#43:


Skye Reynolds posted...
Aaaaaand now I can see why people didn't like it.

Elsa was dumb as hell in Frozen 2 and she tricking died once as a result lol, even Anna was lampshading about how she barely learned anything after the first movie and she ended up being right after all since Anna had to save her ass in the end yet again

One thing I found weird about the second movie was the not-Indians that lived in the forest opposite Arendelle. I call them not-Indians because the movie barely tried to characterize them past that, to the point where I forgot what they were actually called.

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Blackstar110
01/13/20 1:19:12 AM
#44:


^Eh, while I wouldnt describe Honeymaren and co. as extremely memorable, they were a good step up from the trolls for that kind of role IMO. Of course, their existence really was more for the history and backstory of the land and Im not sure fleshing out the individuals any more wouldve felt like a good used of runtime.

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#45
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Blackstar110
01/13/20 1:23:13 AM
#46:


totalnerdken posted...
I worked at Toys R Us when the 1st one came out. And I was confused why everyone liked Elsa better as she's not the protagonist. Then one of my friends told me it's because Elsa is the princess to be queen. Anna is not going to be a queen.
boy do I have news for you

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Skye Reynolds
01/13/20 1:38:49 AM
#47:


I've only seen the first film, but I found Anna bland and mildly annoying.

Anna fans think people only like Elsa because she has powers or a catchy song, but she has the better voice, better look, better personality, better everything.

When I saw Elsa's bland dress for the sequel, I figured they were either making a feminist statement or trying to push her into the background to let Anna shine brighter. Now I figure I have my answer.
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Bad_Mojo
01/13/20 1:51:57 AM
#48:


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DeadBankerDream
01/13/20 2:15:08 AM
#49:


Bad_Mojo posted...
Is there any good songs in it?

Into the Unknown isn't the worst song ever made.

....But no.
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Blackstar110
01/13/20 4:46:07 AM
#50:


Bad_Mojo posted...
Is there any good songs in it?
Absolutely. Depends if youre looking for a musical though, or if youre just gonna go NO BANGERS???? (whatever that means)

I think the best two songs between the two might still be Let It Go and Do You Wanna Build a Snowman? After that, though, the rest of a top five would be some order of Show Yourself, For the First Time in Forever, and Into the Unknown. Every Frozen 2 song is better/more memorable than the troll song from the first movie, and the pacing of when the songs are rolled out is more consistent.

Honestly dunno how someones takeaway to the music is one song isnt the worst song ever written, everything else is bad. Such an absurd hardline against the same exact writers lol

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