Board 8 > AVGN - Majora's Mask

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colliding
12/11/19 6:46:05 PM
#1:


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Punnyz
12/11/19 6:49:17 PM
#2:


oh wow, didn't think I'd see this

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MikeTavish
12/11/19 7:04:24 PM
#3:


Tag to watch when I have time.

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KommunistKoala
12/11/19 7:35:30 PM
#4:


glad he got it right

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Underleveled
12/11/19 7:36:40 PM
#5:


I guess he stopped exclusively playing doo doo ass shit games a while back huh? Still this one kinda takes me by surprise.

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darkx
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azuarc
12/11/19 9:44:29 PM
#6:


16 minutes in, and he's totally speaking my language.

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azuarc
12/11/19 10:06:56 PM
#7:


"But the part I like the least...is the game part."

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McMoogle
12/11/19 11:52:27 PM
#8:


The game absolutely has stuff that needs streamlining but it seem like you have to have the patience of a toddler for it to bother you. Also, either he is especially terrible at videogames or he stages it for him to be in bad predicaments to have things to bitch about. I don't wanna say "git gud" but complaints about gameplay that frustrated me never took place for me. I love James but his AVGN shtick only work when hes playing actual bad games.

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KommunistKoala
12/11/19 11:53:28 PM
#9:


good thing he was playing an actually bad game

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KokoroAkechi
12/12/19 12:11:23 AM
#10:


Yeah, I agree with like all of his gripes. I think I've been pretty consistently on the MM is not a good game side like forever and its nice to see someone in the public eye basically share the same view point even if he oversells it a little.

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paperwarior
12/12/19 12:32:56 AM
#11:


i don't see a lot of issues with it that don't also apply to OoT, eg some dungeons are confusing and the controls aren't great. The timer is definitely a factor in dungeons but I didn't have to reset a dungeon while collecting stray fairies the first time through.

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ninkendo
12/12/19 12:50:13 AM
#12:


McMoogle posted...
he stages it for him to be in bad predicaments to have things to bitch about.
yes that's the whole point of AVGN

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Zigzagoon
12/12/19 1:13:07 AM
#13:


paperwarior posted...
i don't see a lot of issues with it that don't also apply to OoT, eg some dungeons are confusing and the controls aren't great.
This this and this.

The problems he did have with it that are exclusive to MM are mostly minor things.

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Grand Kirby
12/12/19 5:02:34 PM
#14:


I think he needs to buy a new N64 controller if moving in a straight line is that hard for him.

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LeonhartFour
12/12/19 5:09:47 PM
#15:


I get his frustrations with the gameplay and the controls, but I still really like the game. I think he kinda does, too, despite his anger.

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GANON1025
12/12/19 6:19:39 PM
#16:


Folks, I hate to say it, but the Mad Gamer got mad at a game. You hate to see it

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LOLIAmAnAlt
12/12/19 6:30:50 PM
#17:


McMoogle posted...
The game absolutely has stuff that needs streamlining but it seem like you have to have the patience of a toddler for it to bother you. Also, either he is especially terrible at videogames or he stages it for him to be in bad predicaments to have things to bitch about. I don't wanna say "git gud" but complaints about gameplay that frustrated me never took place for me. I love James but his AVGN shtick only work when hes playing actual bad games.
Uh
You know it's all a joke right?
Right??????

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azuarc
12/12/19 9:20:48 PM
#18:


Majora's Mask has always been a bad game. Or at least a game that was a serious disappointment as a follow-up to OOT.

Grand Kirby posted...
I think he needs to buy a new N64 controller if moving in a straight line is that hard for him.

I've always had trouble with high precision straight line movement. Like, there are places in SM64 where you have to walk along narrow platforms and it's really hard to do. Consider getting onto the ship in Jolly Roger Bay or walking across the planks to the tip top of Wet-Dry World. Some of that is the camera moving on you, but that holds here as well.

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CaptainOfCrush
12/13/19 3:31:06 AM
#19:


My post in another topic:

Majora's Mask is quite beautiful in its atmosphere and the way it presents themes like death and sadness. That atmosphere and emotion is what stays with a player throughout the years, so it makes sense that the game is venerated now while its flaws are largely glossed over.

I expected a largely positive impression from James (similar to Earthbound), so I'm surprised that he didn't seem to enjoy it much, but I'm glad we finally got a negative take on this one. I fucking treasure my memories with MM, but thinking back on the subpar dungeons and the padding, I'm not sure how much I'd enjoy it today.

Also, MM and OoT are different enough that not many criticisms really apply to both imo.

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CaptainOfCrush
12/13/19 3:34:16 AM
#20:


Regarding AVGN's proficiency as a gamer: if the years of footage indicate anything, he's probably a lot better at the 2D oldies than anything in 3D. Dude beat Ghosts n Goblins; unless his frustrations with MM were completely staged for humor, he's just an old NES gamer who rarely gets into anything from the last two decades.

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KokoroAkechi
12/13/19 3:40:15 AM
#21:


I watch a lot of AVGN content and he does play some newer titles in his off time when he's not working on something (which he will admittedly say himself is rare). Like Mike is i think obviously the better overall player of the two, but if you compare either of them in terms of overall how good they are in even 3d games to say Dan/Arin (The Game Grumps) James and Mike look like pro gamers.
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Grand Kirby
12/13/19 4:34:41 AM
#22:


CaptainOfCrush posted...
Regarding AVGN's proficiency as a gamer: if the years of footage indicate anything, he's probably a lot better at the 2D oldies than anything in 3D.
Have you seen the James and Mike episode where they played Donkey Kong Country 3? I like James, I really do, but he's honestly pretty shit at playing games:

https://youtu.be/pqcRNm4koRs

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Leonhart4
12/13/19 9:48:03 AM
#23:


He's spent so much time playing bad games that he doesn't know how to play good ones anymore.

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McMoogle
12/13/19 10:09:01 AM
#24:


The DKC3 video is unwatchable with how bad they are.

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Leonhart4
12/13/19 10:15:26 AM
#25:


Reminds me of the Best Friends playing DKC1 video where Woolie asks Matt to tag him in and immediately dies.

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 10:17:11 AM
#26:


The amount of things he claims you have to do perfectly are ridiculous. The only one he has a point with is the Goron race, and that's partly solved by realizing it's possibly the worst rubber banding of all time.

The speedruns that do the milk protection quest literally only shoot the brothers a few times at the beginning because they don't have enough time to destroy all the milk at that point. It's literally that easy.
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Leonhart4
12/13/19 10:20:54 AM
#27:


Yes, but he's not a speed runner who knows all the tricks. It's not totally fair to judge a guy playing the game to completion for the first time by experts at the game. These are definitely things that will frustrate you as a first time player because you don't know there is an easier way. I can relate to the complaints because I only played MM one time, and I get the annoyances. Does he exaggerate for effect? Obviously, but it's not meant to be a legit review of the game.

It's like those FFVIII videos (like Spoony) who complain about how you have to spend hours drawing spells, which an experienced player knows is ridiculously inefficient but it's the way a newbie might approach the game.

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 10:33:04 AM
#28:


I'm not comparing him to complicated speedrunning strats. I'm saying the only way to fail milk protection is to do virtually nothing at all.

The only reason it's a speedrun strat is because at that point they look away for lag frame reduction, but they're not doing anything special to actually beat it.

And this is a section with infinite Arrows that you can fire as fast as you can spam the button, mind you. It's not like you have to pick and choose your shots.
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kevwaffles
12/13/19 11:00:22 AM
#29:


Oh, and the only reason I brought up rubber banding is because he compared it to Mario Kart at one point. If you've played that for a bit, you should at least be somewhat aware that the AI does better when you start to get ahead, and that if you do worse than everyone does worse.

But overall he's definitely right about Goron races being ridiculous. You just have to be a little less perfect if you play cautiously until the end.
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LeonhartFour
12/13/19 1:24:52 PM
#30:


I mean, I don't remember the exact details of these quests because it's been nearly a decade since I played MM (I think I played it because it won GOTD and here we are on the verge of GOTD2), but most people aren't great at a game the first time they play it. It's a lot of trial and error.

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 1:57:01 PM
#31:


And I'm not saying that failing most of those things he says you need to be perfect at is unreasonable. Most people including myself probably failed a good deal of them at least once. You just don't need to be anywhere close to the level of perfection he repeatedly claims.

Milk protection is an exception to that, though. It is literally something you should never reasonably fail short of your controller getting unplugged. I'm pretty sure you could beat it without touching the control stick or looking at the screen and just firing arrows.

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Heroic Bigpun
12/13/19 2:45:51 PM
#32:


People are not getting upset because he's finding faults in a good game. It's just annoying to the leaps of exaggeration he has to reach to pretend some minor things are great faults and worth getting pissed about, even to the point of self-sabotage

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TheRock1525
12/13/19 2:47:29 PM
#33:


Angry Video Game Nerd gets angry at video game.

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LeonhartFour
12/13/19 2:48:27 PM
#34:


well yes he always exaggerates for humor but it's different this time because he's not doing it to a game most people agree is bad

he also probably exaggerates how angry he really gets

that's his shtick

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KommunistKoala
12/13/19 3:00:10 PM
#35:


wow i thought he really got so mad that he threw games into explosions and beat up bugs bunny

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Punnyz
12/13/19 3:05:57 PM
#36:


LeonhartFour posted...
well yes he always exaggerates for humor but it's different this time because he's not doing it to a game most people agree is bad

he also probably exaggerates how angry he really gets

that's his shtick
well duh, AVGN is a exaggerated cartoon character. But they usually have a point. This feels like he wanted to Talk about MM, forgot he used his AVGN persona, and the "anger" felt like an after thought and he had to play catch up and came up with these.

Imagine him playing SMB, and hes like YA KNOW HOW YOU GOTTA JUMP OVER THIS FIRST GOOMBA, YOU GOTTA HAVE LIKE, PERFECT SENSES TO DO IT, AND IF YOU DON"T

FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK

YA GOTTA BE LIKE A MASTER TO DO THIS

This just simply shouldn't have been an AVGN episode. It just doesn't fit and hes stretching way more than usual i feel

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 3:07:41 PM
#37:


I mean I've played plenty of the other games he's done (as AVGN) and I never felt he was exaggerating ineptitude to make a joke or a point nearly to the extent he did here. He's done other good games and other "not necessarily horrible but definitely hard" games without it being like this. Hell, he did Zelda 2 and it wasn't anything like this was, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would call it an easier game than Majora's Mask.

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LeonhartFour
12/13/19 3:10:36 PM
#38:


I dunno. It felt pretty par for the course for me, but I wasn't judging how good he is or isn't at the game.

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LOLIAmAnAlt
12/13/19 3:16:22 PM
#39:


Guys, its comedy.
He made fun of your liked game. Big deal. He probably loves the game in real life. Its comedy!!!

Lawl

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 3:23:29 PM
#40:


To put it another way, his complaint about Goron jumping precision is something you could say he was bad at, but at the same time it's still a believable problem.

The change in day making the explosive barrel go away, while an obvious setup, is a legitimate flaw with the game, and pretty much all he should have devoted to that segment.

Making it look like after dozens of attempts you can only get the explosive barrel where you need it to be with barely enough time left is legitimate DSP-level nonsense.

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TheRock1525
12/13/19 3:25:30 PM
#41:


People are just so hyper defensive about Zelda. I can still remember the outrage after TP got an 8.8.

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kevwaffles
12/13/19 3:34:12 PM
#42:


Except I don't think many people* are complaining that he hated playing the game rather than it's a bad (or flawed to be more accurate) AVGN episode.

*(I of course am limiting that to people here. I can only imagine what the comments on the video itself are like.)

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Grand Kirby
12/13/19 3:38:50 PM
#43:


I mean, after watching James and Mike for a while you can start to tell the difference in what's part of the Angry Nerd persona and what's actually James' own opinion. Some of these later AVGN episodes have just been transplants of content from J&M. The Universal Studios episode is a great example. It really is basically a recap of the J&M episode with only a slight exaggeration to make it fit the AVGN character.

You can see a lot of the similar style of review in this Majora's Mask episode. The line between the Nerd and James seems a lot thinner in this episode than some others. When he says stuff about dreading having to go back to playing it in order to beat it, it's a lot like how he forced himself to beat Metroid even though he was hating it. And a lot of his complaints about the gameplay match up to the problems he has playing lots of games because he's just not that good. And that's one of the reasons I'm critical of it, because this happens a lot on J&M. Situations where he doesn't bother to learn how to play the game correctly, or can't get past a certain challenge because of his own lack of skill, and then blames the game for it. It's really disappointing to watch.

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Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
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azuarc
12/13/19 3:52:38 PM
#44:


LeonhartFour posted...
it's different this time because he's not doing it to a game most people agree is bad

I agree that it's bad.

I would weigh in further, except I made it a point to burn away my memories of this game. I couldn't be bothered to finish it, which is a pretty damning condemnation of any game I owned at that point in my life since I didn't get very many of them.


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colliding
12/13/19 4:28:39 PM
#45:


"Not a bad game, but a bad Zelda game" is a cliche I can support in this case

Many of his complaints are exaggerated but his criticism of the water temple is spot on

I also think he's generally right in that the weirdness/aesthetic is better than the gameplay itself

I was surprised he didn't have a bit about not having an expansion pack and having to order one to play the game
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Lucavi000
12/13/19 4:53:03 PM
#46:


CaptainOfCrush posted...
Regarding AVGN's proficiency as a gamer: if the years of footage indicate anything, he's probably a lot better at the 2D oldies than anything in 3D. Dude beat Ghosts n Goblins; unless his frustrations with MM were completely staged for humor, he's just an old NES gamer who rarely gets into anything from the last two decades.

He actually doesnt play a lot of the games. Mike Matei plays the games for him and any other footage of the camera facing the AVGN with a controller in his hand is just that.

I wont say he hasnt played ANY of the games he reviews for AVGN but 90%+ of the games are done by Mike

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LeonhartFour
12/13/19 5:03:15 PM
#47:


Yeah, I hated Great Bay Temple. I also wasn't able to finish it in one go and had to rewind to day 1.

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ChichiriMuyo
12/13/19 5:06:40 PM
#48:


McMoogle posted...
Also, either he is especially terrible at videogames or he stages it for him to be in bad predicaments to have things to bitch about.
Of course he does, he's not going to playthrough and have that much trouble. He's pointing out that some people have had problem x, y, or z with a game to the point of utter frustration. He sets it up to show every possible flaw because most players will get say the horse riding thing in one try and then have a ton of trouble (including that day/night change) with the exploding barrel.

The point is, on the scale of Zelda games MM is probably the most flawed and frustrating. I've never understood the amount of nostalgia for it because for every cool thing about it there's another thing that makes me want to never play it again.

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Grand Kirby
12/13/19 5:07:03 PM
#49:


The funny thing is Great Bay Temple is one of my favorite dungeons in the series, and it's mainly because it is pretty brutal. I remember feeling so satisfied when I beat it for the first time as a kid. I completely understand why people don't like it though. It's honestly harder than OoT's Water Temple.

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Okay, I rolled a 14. What's that mean? Hsu
That you're a cheater. This is a 12-sided die. Chan
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tazzyboyishere
12/13/19 5:08:41 PM
#50:


I think he covers a lot of the minor frustrations which sort of ile up to the point of great frustration. I never really remember why I don't think as highly of MM as I do other 3D Zeldas and it's precisely because of much of the stuff he points out here. Still, I enjoy the game significantly more than he did.

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