Board 8 > Job interview tomorrow

(+) Yeah! (+)

new firm where the pay will potentially be about $60-80k more than what i currently make for roughly the same billable hour requirement.

but i really like the place I'm at now and one of the equity partners literally just referred to me as one of his "key people" moving forward

augh

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$60-80k more?

wow

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I barely even make $60k so this sounds like a no brainier unless this new firm makes its money by suing orphans or something

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I just had an interview for a job making $50k, I cant even imagine being offered that much more.

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i didn't mean for this to be a stealth bragging topic

if it helps even with the increase in salary my student debt will haunt me to retirement age

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Did this new place reach out to you directly? If you really like your current place it seems strange to have scheduled an interview.

It's also entirely possible that you started yourself too low at your current job. Is there any possibility of upping your pay there?

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The pay jump makes sense considering you now have the extra experience

If I decided to leave I'd probably tell my current employer and see if they'd give me a bump to try to keep me.

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a school friend that was at that firm recommended me to take his place on his way out. i wasn't actively looking for a new job but this fell in my lap and so far seems like a great step up in my career.

it's a different field of law though (which i can learn as i go) and i have only just recently fallen into the good graces of partners with actual clout at my current place. they'd probably up the salary a bit but definitely won't match. i am already making more than other 3rd year associates here.

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Snrkiko posted...

i didn't mean for this to be a stealth bragging topic

if it helps even with the increase in salary my student debt will haunt me to retirement age

wow

law school debt is no joke

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that's a lot of money but will it make you happy. is it moving you closer to your ideal self? closer to what you really want? not what you tell yourself you want but what you want

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How is it possible to make that much per year and not pay off your student loan debt of 300-400k relatively swiftly?

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Snrkiko posted...

one of the equity partners literally just referred to me as one of his "key people" moving forward

So he'll easily give you a measly $80k to keep you around. There's no problem.

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banananor posted...

How is it possible to make that much per year and not pay off your student loan debt of 300-400k relatively swiftly?

Could be his loan is a low % so it makes sense to let it sit while he invests in other high % returns

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parenthood and renting in irvine California are big factors

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Snrkiko posted...

new firm where the pay will potentially be about $60-80k more than what i currently make for roughly the same billable hour requirement.

but i really like the place I'm at now and one of the equity partners literally just referred to me as one of his "key people" moving forward

augh

That's like a lot of money more unless you make millions a year already lol. That's a no brainer to me!

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don't believe promises of money at your current place. that said, if you really prefer your old place without the money then you should stay.

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I've turned down a 20k raise to jump ship before as I've been with the same company 15 years and preferred to stick with the company where I knew the culture and management. I can't imagine turning down a 60-80k raise though, I'd have taken the risk for that much of a raise for sure

Your pay raise is like what I make in 2 years :I

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well the interview went well

one of the founding partners of the firm passed me off to my potential future boss and told her "hire him"

so it's a matter of how much they offer now

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Make your current firm counter if you really believe the partner's "key people" bullshit

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foolm0r0n posted...

Could be his loan is a low % so it makes sense to let it sit while he invests in other high % returns

oh, that's actually rational. i assumed debt haunting someone meant the person was literally incapable of paying it off

the person will still have a positive net worth overall

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they offered 50k more than what I'm making, with 100 less annual billable requirement

i think im gonna take it

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Snrkiko posted...

they offered 50k more than what I'm making, with 100 less annual billable requirement

i think im gonna take it

Counter for 60k more.

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in before people don't value the 100 less billable hour requirement

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i asked for more and it's pretty much a lock step per year for attorneys

i'm not about to say no over $5 pretax

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Snrkiko posted...

they offered 50k more than what I'm making, with 100 less annual billable requirement

i think im gonna take it

This is the counter-offer from your current employer?

my god

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no, the current employer has not been informed and i doubt they will try to match at the current rate I'm being billed out to clients

the new employer offered $50k more than what I'm currently making

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congrats man!

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oh also, my segue aside, congratulations! do whatever makes you happiest

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Snrkiko posted...

no, the current employer has not been informed and i doubt they will try to match at the current rate I'm being billed out to clients

Ask them though. The worst case is that you just take the new job anyways, but there's a chance you could stay at your comfortable spot and still get the raise.

That said, I think people massively undervalue moving to a new company. Comfort is nice but that's not how you advance in your career.

Plus, you picked your current place without knowing how it would be, and ended up liking it a lot. Logically, this new place has an even higher chance of being likable because you have more experience and know what to look for. Unless there's some red flags.

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i think when i give notice they will make an offer to bump pay and some other accommodation to try to keep me but I'm not expecting a match. and even if they do match, the nature of law firms is eventually that will just equate to me having to work more billable hours to justify my price to the company.

but yeah I'm definitely going to see what they have to offer.

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my current firm (unsurprisingly) can't match but the equity partner made clear he wants to do anything he can do to try to keep me. he promised a pay bump and to reduce my hours, and talked about the path to equity partnership and how that means a salary of over 2mil.

which is nice and all but not guaranteed and is just a pretty promise that is at at least a decade and a half away, if at all.

basically it comes down to:
1) stay with a modest raise but established working relationship with a great set of bosses, with the possibility of a huge payoff by the time my kid is in college, or

2) hefty pay bump in the short term in a new field of law at a more prestigious firm that would definitely lead to better exit options. option 2 of course still has the possibility of me doing well and moving up over time, but I'm unknown and untested at the new firm, so there's that.


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Holy fuck, do lawyers really make that much?

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equity partners make a percentage of the firm's profits.

at least where i am now, you need to have a book of business worth about $1mil to even be considered for equity

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so you're leaving, right?

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my current firm is working on a counteroffer and have communicated a clear path towards partnership and eventually equity if i stay

i really don't know what to do

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Damn, I guess you wait for the counter-offer and decide if that much extra money guaranteed is worth the uncertainty of an entirely new workplace.

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slide me a million sometime

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they countered. they can't match (which I didn't expect them to) but are still offering a $50k increase in salary starting jan 1 with a clearly expressed intention to make me partner early and eye me as a equity partner candidate by the next 5-10 years.

i am told partners make up to $350k a year if they are strong performers and are on their path to equity. the lower rung of equity partners still clear $600k

the firm that wants to hire me told me that raises are usually $5k -$10k annually. I asked about the path to partnership there and was told a generic it's hard work but it's there if you want it. over the last 25 years my potential boss as been with the firm, there have been two other partners only. and neither are there anymore. and she has a 7 year attorney who is not going to be partner ever.

i roughly mapped out my financial projections through 2023, and estimate by then i'll be making about the same amount of money (assuming I don't make partner by then). in the course of those next 4 years, i'd be giving up about $50k in exchange for the upward mobility expressly communicated by my current firm. and hopefully that would pay off in dividends in the years to follow, but there's never a guarantee of that.

hrrrrrrrrrrrgh

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can't match, but same pay - means they'll reduce your hours but not by as much, right? i'm confused since you said the other job was a 50k increase as well

do you want to keep grinding away for partner? do you really see that as realistic?

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sorry, it wasn't clear. the place i'm currently at does a "base pay" plus an "incentive target pay" if you actually hit your hours. so for example my base could be $100k and there would be another $10k locked behind me hitting my 2000 billable hour requirement for the year.

from my current salary, my current job is offering $40k more to my base, with an additional $10k if i hit my hours. I thought they were for sure going to up my billable requirement to make up for such a big jump but they kept it the same.

if i stay, the raises would be at least $10k to the base, plus potentially another $10k to the incentive (aka $20k locked behind me hitting my target).

the job that wants me is offering a straight $65k increase to my base pay for 100 less billable hours, and i don't have to necessarily hit those hours to get the full salary. they only do $5-10k raises, and it sounds like if they don't like me for whatever reason $3k is even possible. so like i said, with those general projections in mind, i stand to be in the same salary range in 3-4 years, assuming i don't make partner in that time.

non-equity partner would be a matter of course if i stick around. equity partner is a longer grind and i told my current boss i don't even know if i want that. but there is value in knowing i could end up there.

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lol job

I'm staying

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The fact you just turned down all the money I make base in a year makes me sick to my stomach lol

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Snrkiko posted...

I'm staying

defensible decision - promise of making a TON more as partner is great. but also keep your eyes open for future opportunities - all managers are always tell leavers that they're essential.

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He only turned down $15k since it's between $50k and $65kcalc (or like $69k with the 100 fewer hours). Maybe you are that poor Corrik...

$15-20k is still a pretty good reason to jump ship though. Both the equity partner promise and the $10k raise/yr promise are just that, promises. Next year it's a total clean slate for negotiation. Be prepared to leave then tbh.

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foolm0r0n posted...

He only turned down $15k since it's between $50k and $65kcalc (or like $69k with the 100 fewer hours). Maybe you are that poor Corrik...

$15-20k is still a pretty good reason to jump ship though. Both the equity partner promise and the $10k raise/yr promise are just that, promises. Next year it's a total clean slate for negotiation. Be prepared to leave then tbh.

yeah totally. the people that convinced me to stay are people i trust, but if they screw me i will have exit options

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ShatteredElysium posted...

I've turned down a 20k raise to jump ship before as I've been with the same company 15 years and preferred to stick with the company where I knew the culture and management. I can't imagine turning down a 60-80k raise though, I'd have taken the risk for that much of a raise for sure

Just going to requote this to show that I made the same decision as you in a similar scenario. It's far better to stick with what you're comfortable with and people you trust for the sake of $15-20k.

ShatteredElysium posted...

It's far better

How do you know? 20k is serious no matter what you're making, esp counting compound effects. Comfort is great but you can get that AND a higher salary, unless you think you just happened to luck into the only comfortable job in your industry right now. Statistically you are at an average job. Just avoid the below-average red flags and you're nearly guaranteed an upgrade in comfort AND salary for leaving.

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I think you made the right choice.

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