Current Events > Watching Avatar the last airbender. Why are the fire nation evil/the bad guys?

(+) Yeah! (+)

And how are they winning?

how doesn't the water nation immediately defeat them and snuff them out? Water puts out fire. I'm so confused over how the other nations are losing.

Keep watching the show. It gets fleshed out

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Amenadeel posted...

Water puts out fire.

But that all changed when the Fire Nation attacked.

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Amenadeel posted...

And how are they winning?

how doesn't the water nation immediately defeat them and snuff them out? Water puts out fire. I'm so confused over how the other nations are losing.

Better tech mainly.

They mimick Japan in WWII. A small country invades a bigger country like the Earth Kingdom (or China).

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Because they committed genocide, and have the military might to subjugate the rest of the world.

The Water Tribes have technique and a type advantage, and the Earth Kingdom have strength and numbers. But the Fire Nation has fucking tanks, catapults and a thirst for blood. Through sheer aggression and military might, and the willingness to commit mass murder if push comes to shove, the Fire Nation has come out on top.

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Amenadeel posted...

And how are they winning?

They're winning because there is no war in Ba Sing Se.

You will understand.

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Water doesn't have a huge advantage (if any at all) against fire. Fire's pretty OP.

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Pokemon typing doesn't exactly translate to the Avatarverse.

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mainly technological advancement, it mirrors japanese regional dominance in the meiji-WWII era, but also their attack was enhanced by the power of a comet that passed over the world and gave them a huge short-term advantage.

but also the water tribes are smaller than the fire nation, and isolated at the poles--the fire nation attack on the north pole was defeated, after all, and the fire nation attack on the earth kingdom bogged down. so they weren't totally successful in their war even with the advantage they held.

it was only their genocidal attack against the air nomads that was truly successful, and that was planned to coincide directly with the comet.

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the elements in Avatar don't really work rock-paper-scissors style like that

I think the rest of it has been explained pretty well

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averagejoel posted...

the elements in Avatar don't really work rock-paper-scissors style like that

I think the rest of it has been explained pretty well

Yeah it is more about individual ability when 1 v 1, and the Fire Nation is very well coordinated for War, as they were the ones who organized and attacked first.

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Still 10+ episodes to go. I can't wait to find out more about the Fire nation and how they're winning. Them imprisoning a bunch of earth benders just seems ridiculous, fire cannot burn rock!

The Fire Nation prepared for their first strike for a long time. also Aang locking himself in a ball of ice was a bad move.

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EIiza posted...

The Fire Nation has a trump card that you learn about much later that helped them turn the tide and start their invasions.

Wait, isn't the trump card mentioned almost immediately, or are you talking about a different one?

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First off, the Air Nomads and the Water Tribes are fairly small nations. And then the Water Tribe compounds that issue by splitting itself into two. So the only real challenge they would have is the Earth Kingdom which is shown to be a bit of a slog for the Fire Nation.

It's also not a country of benders vs a country of benders. The Fire Nation's army has benders, sure, but it also just has a shitload of soldiers. I'm not sure how much it's shown in season one, but it's also made clear pretty quickly that it has a technological advantage because fire benders can smelt metal more easily and are capable of creating things like steam engines. There are other, spoilerish reasons why the Earth Kingdom isn't retaliating fully, but I won't go into those.

The biggest thing, though, is that elements just don't work that way in Avatar. A water bender doesn't automatically defeat a fire bender. The bending is almost more of an extension of martial arts than anything else, so the better bender isn't the one with the type advantage, it's the one with more skill.

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That dude with the burned eye is the bad guy, I don't know why I get flashes of sympathy when they shift to his story. Can't help myself. He's bad but him and his uncle actually have a... good relationship?

Amenadeel posted...

That dude with the burned eye is the bad guy, I don't know why I get flashes of sympathy when they shift to his story. Can't help myself. He's bad but him and his uncle actually have a... good relationship?

*says nothing*
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To be fair, enough heat can evaporate water.

Amenadeel posted...

That dude with the burned eye is the bad guy, I don't know why I get flashes of sympathy when they shift to his story. Can't help myself. He's bad but him and his uncle actually have a... good relationship?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SympathyForTheDevil

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People take typing way too seriously because of Pokemon. Let's put it this way. Would you want to fight someone who has a flamethrower with a supersoaker?

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Everybody stumbling because of the fire nation yet no one batting an eye to the earth kingdom controlling more than half of the fucking world

https://imgur.com/JymDSJU

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ChrisTaka posted...

Everybody stumbling because of the fire nation yet no one batting an eye to the earth kingdom controlling more than half of the fucking world

The Earth Kingdom didn't force control over the areas they owned. Or maybe they did, we don't exactly know.

I think they go into depth with the whole earth kingdom in the comics.

Mostly as a large landmass they naturally kinda came together, though the capital did not push too hard to keep them all in line. It was a loose association.

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I dunno.

https://i.imgur.com/4qLHldZ.jpg

But what I do know is that I would give her anything she wants.
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Something I didn't like about the show

was how bad they nerfed firebending. In the beginning, Aang accidentally scorched the skin off Katara's hands with basic practice fire bending techniques. Later in the series a direct hit basically amounted to a force push. Or an air push.

Amenadeel posted...

how doesn't the water nation immediately defeat them and snuff them out? Water puts out fire.

In addition to above factors, most waterbenders need a water source to bend, while any random firebender and can just poof fire out of nowhere.

Earthbenders and airbenders technically have the same limitation, but it's almost never a problem because earth is just about everywhere outside on land, and if you're alive that means you have available air lol.
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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Something I didn't like about the show

was how bad they nerfed firebending. In the beginning, Aang accidentally scorched the skin off Katara's hands with basic practice fire bending techniques. Later in the series a direct hit basically amounted to a force push. Or an air push.

Remember that Aang, as the Avatar, is always going to be more powerful in his bending than others. Most firebenders do not firebend properly, using anger and aggression instead of the breath and the whole life-force aspect. Apparently only Iroh, Zuko, and Aang ended up firebending properly. Oozai and Azula were just naturally super powerful.

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Posts ITT are making me think this show is deceptively smart and more amazing than previously thought.

Also omg. The previous Avatar was a fire bender? This explains so much. No wonder the Fire nation are so powerful, they literally had the avatar on their team!

Amenadeel posted...

Also omg. The previous Avatar was a fire bender? This explains so much. No wonder the Fire nation are so powerful, they literally had the avatar on their team!

Keep watching.

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Oh wait never mind. Turns out it was a magical comet that landed on earth and increased their powers?

That origin story is very... vandal savage like.

Amenadeel posted...

Oh wait never mind. Turns out it was a magical comet that landed on earth and increased their powers?

That origin story is very... vandal savage like.

It is established that natural elements of the world impacts bending in significant ways. Full Moon helps Water Benders for example. I found it quite feasible that a Comet could allow for stronger bending. This combined with the Fire Nation attacking outright first made for a big win against the Air Nomads.

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Zuko (is that the name?) actually put off hunting the avatar to rescue his uncle from the earth benders...

Amenadeel posted...

Zuko (is that the name?) actually put off hunting the avatar to rescue his uncle from the earth benders...

Zuko is pretty cool.
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I need to rewatch Avatar

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Did you really ask why the country forcibly invading other nations to build an empire are the bad guys? Also stop thinking of it like Pokemon typing also most of the army arent benders they just have superior technology.

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Ok yeah. This show just went from watchable, to bingeable.

They met jet. For a show of this caliber to actually deal with the morally grey, to show that becoming as bad as the people you're fighting isn't the way, to actually bring up these difficult choices, it's truly amazing. A lot of mature themes, difficult themes.

Amenadeel posted...

Ok yeah. This show just went from watchable, to bingeable.

They met jet. For a show of this caliber to actually deal with the morally grey, to show that becoming as bad as the people you're fighting isn't the way, to actually bring up these difficult choices, it's truly amazing. A lot of mature themes, difficult themes.

Yeah it is pretty crazy that it's from Nickelodeon of all places.
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Well now I want to watch Avatar again. I think one of the biggest things to keep in mind as to the Fire Nation dominance is that the fire benders are the only ones really capable of using their bending to power war machines, so even mediocre fire benders in the military kind of get a force multiplier that the other types don't.

I'd still be an earth bender, though.

It's an amazing show with a strong commitment to continuity and character development. It's a real journey with tons of incredible stuff involved.

Legend of Korra is pretty damn good, too, though it's not quite as great and has some weaknesses that the original didn't have.

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Amenadeel posted...

Ok yeah. This show just went from watchable, to bingeable.

They met jet. For a show of this caliber to actually deal with the morally grey, to show that becoming as bad as the people you're fighting isn't the way, to actually bring up these difficult choices, it's truly amazing. A lot of mature themes, difficult themes.

Damn, and you haven't even gotten to the episode that got me hooked yet.
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Amenadeel posted...

Ok yeah. This show just went from watchable, to bingeable.

They met jet. For a show of this caliber to actually deal with the morally grey, to show that becoming as bad as the people you're fighting isn't the way, to actually bring up these difficult choices, it's truly amazing. A lot of mature themes, difficult themes.

Lol you're barely getting started.

It only gets better from here.

It's without exaggerating one of the greatest shows ever made.

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De Evolution posted...

It's without exaggerating one of the greatest shows ever made.

Legit. From writing, to animation, to voice acting, to pacing, to world building, it's a monumental achievement. It's one of the only American cartoons that consistently gets mistaken for an anime due to the care and consistency of its development.

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Amenadeel posted...

Ok yeah. This show just went from watchable, to bingeable.

They met jet. For a show of this caliber to actually deal with the morally grey, to show that becoming as bad as the people you're fighting isn't the way, to actually bring up these difficult choices, it's truly amazing. A lot of mature themes, difficult themes.

The best mature themes/morally grey episode blows that one out of the water

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They really should have gone with a better and less problematic word than bender. I don't think I could watch it because of that. At least in Futurama it's a comedy and the character Bender is meant to be offensive.

corneliusmagus posted...

They really should have gone with a better and less problematic word than bender. I don't think I could watch it because of that. At least in Futurama it's a comedy and the character Bender is meant to be offensive.

.............?

what

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Gobstoppers12 posted...

.............?

what

Bender is a slur against gay people.

corneliusmagus posted...

Bender is a slur against gay people.

Maybe in England or something.

In America, a "bender" is a drinking spree, which is what the Futurama character is a reference to. Also, bender can refer to a character in the Avatar franchise with the ability to manipulate one of the elements by 'bending' it.

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