Board 8 > Survivor: Island of the Idols Discussion Topic #3: We are thankful for Noura

(+) Yeah! (+)

yeah but tony's victory was a case where we thought there was no way someone would let him get to the finals

with noura i don't see any scenario where she can even win if she's at the end now

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Troyzan posted...

I'm just trying to get a glimpse of your irrational hatred. It just feels like you didn't watch all of the season.

I'm not sure what there is not to get. Dan sexually harassed at minimum one woman (and we're going by rule of harassment being defined by the victim here; he was inappropriate with at minimum four), tried to downplay it by changing the subject when he was confronted with it, and left us feeling gross by surviving a highly controversial episode relatively unscathed in terms of his status in the game while his victim and a person who stuck up for her were voted out. Ignoring that double episode that has been widely described by fans as the worst night of Survivor in 39 seasons, he's just kinda been a condescending curmudgeon. I think the burden lies on you to explain why I shouldn't hate him.

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I also would rather casual fans be happy with Mike winning than fucking dan this season winning

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Troyzan posted...

I'm just trying to get a glimpse of your irrational hatred. It just feels like you didn't watch all of the season.

not sure why you're singling out darkx, the rest of the topic has this "irrational hatred" too

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The way Feely called the Goat Army "morons" tonight came off as really arrogant and slimy. My dad, who is a casual, made me pause it so he could rant about that.

Naye745 posted...

yeah but tony's victory was a case where we thought there was no way someone would let him get to the finals

also good point here.
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And whatever I'll just throw this shit here.

152. Elizabeth Olson (David vs. Goliath, 13th place) (6.6)
152. Devon Pinto (Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers, 4th place) (6.6)
152. Jay Starrett (Millennials vs. Gen X, 6th place) (6.6)
140. Cydney Gillion (Kaoh Rong, 4th place) (6.67)
140. Andrea Boehlke (Caramoan, 7th place) (6.67)
140. Sierra Reed (Tocantins, 7th place) (6.67)
140. James Clement (Micronesia, 7th place) (6.67)
140. Judd Sergeant (Guatemala, 6th place) (6.67)
140. Coby Archa (Palau, 9th place) (6.67)
140. Katie Gallagher (Palau, 2nd place) (6.67)
140. Christa Hastie (Pearl Islands, 6th place) (6.67)
140. Christy Smith (The Amazon, 6th place) (6.67)
140. Vecepia Towery (Marquesas, 1st place) (6.67)
140. Frank Garrison (Africa, 7th place) (6.67)
140. Elisabeth Filarski (The Australian Outback, 4th place) (6.67)
139. Keith Nale (Cambodia, 5th place) (6.71)
137. Ron Clark (Edge of Extinction, 8th place) (6.75)
137. Victoria Baamonde (Edge of Extinction, 6th place) (6.75)
135. Natalie Cole (David vs. Goliath, 15th place) (6.8)
135. John Hennigan (David vs. Goliath, 12th place) (6.8)

Sayonara, Caramoan, and congrats Andrea on topping two seasons.

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every episode dan survives we stray further from the light

Inviso, I'm curious. You've really hated the Survivor casual audience for a while now, to the point where you're willing to root for Dan winning just to spite them (which obviously isn't happening, let's be honest). Why do you hate the audience so much? Who are you dealing with that has your feathers so ruffled?

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Peridiam posted...

(which obviously isn't happening, let's be honest)

famous last words00

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i seem to be pretty good at making believable calls that get upended like 2 weeks later

so here we are

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i feel like inviso's take is a little over the top but i get it to an extent
when dan had his episode a few weeks ago it was pretty clear where he stood among fans for the rest of the season
but tommy and dean can still lose points in our eyes, so in a weird way we are more actively frustrated at them than at dan who is just already classified permanently as a terrible person

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Well I still have the heart of a casual so, while I'm annoyed this destroys Elaine's chances (only person I'm really rooting for) and doubly annoyed at whatever the hell Dean was thinking pulling that, I'm really happy with Karishma's elimination. I root for underdogs pretty often but she was terrible in literally all aspects and only wish it had happened back when Vince was voted off instead.

Thinking best case scenario for Elaine now is, the next reward challenge involves the classic "schoolyard pick" and the one left out goes to the Island and that person is Elaine (though I guess it would more likely be Noura at this point...)

Peridiam posted...

every episode dan survives we stray further from the light

Inviso, I'm curious. You've really hated the Survivor casual audience for a while now, to the point where you're willing to root for Dan winning just to spite them (which obviously isn't happening, let's be honest). Why do you hate the audience so much? Who are you dealing with that has your feathers so ruffled?

My guess: if a white guy's going to win (where Tommy feels inevitable), it might as well be the worst white guy (Dan) rather than someone who's just... kind of banal and really hasn't done anything interesting.

btw Peridiam, I watched some of your vids recently and now you're all over my recommended feed, lol. The algorithm works!

Wow Dean **** right off. Hilarious he thinks Tommy and Dan are taking him to the finals. And how about that goat talk an episode or two? How ironic considering the severe lack of moves this guy has made.

At least Noura survived but damn I dared to hope itd be Tommy and save the season.

Peridiam posted...

every episode dan survives we stray further from the light

Inviso, I'm curious. You've really hated the Survivor casual audience for a while now, to the point where you're willing to root for Dan winning just to spite them (which obviously isn't happening, let's be honest). Why do you hate the audience so much? Who are you dealing with that has your feathers so ruffled?

It's not any individual. It's the fact that Survivor has taken a dramatic change since Cambodia (honestly, Cagayan, but Cambodia was Survivor's desperate attempt at recapturing the success of Cagayan, after SJDS and WA didn't go the way they wanted), and I think a lot of that is because the casual fanbase lap that shit up. Survivor has become increasingly focused on soulless, robotic gameplay, and it frustrates me to see that sort of thing rewarded, because then when it's NOT, the producers think that something is WRONG, so they make a dramatic shift to the game. Michele won, so fuck jury speeches. Adam and Sarah won, so we're adding a fire-making tiebreaker (even though the fans loved Adam's win). Ghost Island is a completely garbage season because the producers think the fans will be pleased by the tie vote ending...and they were right.

It's just tired of seeing generic, relatively inoffensive men getting rewarded by Survivor's format, and the casuals then build them up far more than they would an equivalent female player.

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The fact that Ben, an obnoxious, self-righteous jackass and extremely sloppy Survivor player, is arguably the most popular winner of the past 10 seasons among the casuals, should tell you all you need to know about why people like Inviso and myself are growing increasingly frustrated by this fanbase.

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I don't think we have any space to talk considering how high Kim just ranked on the overall rankings. She's just as boring as Tommy and played an even more boring game (at least Tommy had some adversity, all Kim had was Troyzan shouting like a crazy person). They'd be 1-2 in most boring winners if Tommy wins. Yet their receptions here are pretty different (no way does Tommy even break top 500).

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Inviso posted...

Michele won, so fuck jury speeches.

Did MvGX have individual jury speeches? I distinctly remember Jeff mentioning the change at the Game Changers FTC, but I just cannot picture any of the people from MvGX standing up and giving their own speech except for maybe David.

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Underleveled posted...

Did MvGX have individual jury speeches? I distinctly remember Jeff mentioning the change at the Game Changers FTC, but I just cannot picture any of the people from MvGX standing up and giving their own speech except for maybe David.

MvGX was the last season with individual speeches. That's a major reason why Chris was my least favorite character that season, because of the smug certainty that it was all Adam's doing that Ken and Hannah voted out David.

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Also, the more I think about last night, the more frustrated I am as a whole, because that shit is emblematic of why Survivor has gone so far downhill.

Based on last night...who do the editors think we SHOULD be rooting for?

Dan, the creepy asshole who was accused to feeling women up earlier in the season, and then called the four people left at camp "losers" in front of his 13-year-old son?

Dean, the idiot who blew up his alliance's game at tribal council for seemingly no reason?

Elaine, the woman who, despite her first episode and episode six, has been a completely flat, background character?

Janet, the kind, older woman who has been shunted to the background despite there only being eight people left to divide screen time amongst?

Lauren, the only young girl left who was pretty bitchy about the "losers" today?

Noura, the lunatic who no one trusts and was apparently volatile enough to blow up a great plan?

Tommy, the smug douche who is apparently not as threatening as Lauren, yet was somehow saved?

This is why strategy for strategy's sake is lame. We have a collection of players who are either douchebags, or get shoved to the background because they're nice, but not strategists.

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Inviso posted...

That's a major reason why Chris was my least favorite character that season, because of the smug certainty that it was all Adam's doing that Ken and Hannah voted out David.

It was a certainty because Adam was the one who'd been trying to get David out since F7. The way Adam played the jury so they'd credit David's eventual elimination to him was great gameplay.

I too have a problem with the increasingly soulless nature of this show. I enjoyed Cambodia a hell of a lot, but the show's synthetic attempts to replicate it make any subsequent season not called David vs. Goliath (which was an accident) feel artificial. I'm tired of that.

I'm also tired of the terribly repetitive challenges. Like this week's felt way too much like last week's. Given all of this, I'm really resigning myself to that Survivor will never be what it once was, and I'm strongly thinking that S40 will be what I consider the end.
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BlueCrystalTear posted...

I too have a problem with the increasingly soulless nature of this show. I enjoyed Cambodia a hell of a lot, but the show's synthetic attempts to replicate it make any subsequent season not called David vs. Goliath (which was an accident) feel artificial. I'm tired of that.

I really don't get how you love Cambodia but hate the seasons that replicate it.

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My guess is he probably meant Cagayan...

BlueCrystalTear posted...

I too have a problem with the increasingly soulless nature of this show. I enjoyed Cambodia a hell of a lot, but the show's synthetic attempts to replicate it make any subsequent season not called David vs. Goliath (which was an accident) feel artificial. I'm tired of that.

Why is it soulless, though? Is it an editing issue to focus on gamebottery, or are the contestants not delivering anything that would provide "soul", not doing or saying anything to put a target on them, which makes everything feel so fake and sanitized? I never know what nuggets of gold are left on the editing room floor.

There's a reason the casuals love Ben as HxHxH winner even if his gameplay was sloppy and he was a dick at times. He was a big personality in a game that naturally rewards weak characters. Just like I remember B8 hating on Rick Devens majorly, but he was a funny and entertaining character? But the chance that he'd win EoE was treated around here like it'd be the worst thing ever?

You'd think if Tommy's going to win they would give him some more memorable moments, funny moments, I really don't remember seeing anything. So Inviso's point about the editors really not giving us anyone to root for is a major frustration. Editors, give me a reason to like Tommy, I'm begging you!!

I think it's cyclical, Martin.

The show has increasingly moved away from standard storytelling, with a focus on characters and heroes and villains, to a new editing style where they seem to paint anyone who makes a lot of strategic moves as being "heroic", or at the very least, the ones we're supposed to root for. This leads to seasons where everyone is a free agent from day one, and seeks to betray their closest ally in order to add a big move to their resume. Then because the players play this way, the editors can't craft long-term storylines, so they focus on episodic editing and try to encourage #bigmoves and constant twists and idols. Then future players watch this editing, and decide that's the way they need to play the game. And it just goes on and on.

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124. Michele Fitzgerald (Kaoh Rong, 1st place) (6.83)
124. Holly Hoffman (Nicaragua, 4th place) (6.83)
124. Benjamin "Coach" Wade (Heroes vs. Villains, 12th place) (6.83)
124. Erik Cardona (Samoa, 12th place) (6.83)
124. Taj Johnson-George (Tocantins, 4th place) (6.83)
124. Erinn Lobdell (Tocantins, 3rd place) (6.83)
124. Ken Hoang (Gabon, 5th place) (6.83)
124. Michelle Yi (Fiji, 10th place) (6.83)
124. Billy Garcia (Cook Islands, 19th place) (6.83)
124. Ethan Zohn (All-Stars, 11th place) (6.83)
124. Rudy Boesch (Borneo, 3rd place) (6.83)
122. Jaclyn Schultz (San Juan del Sur, 2nd place) (6.86)
122. Lisa Whelchel (Philippines, 2nd place) (6.86)
104. Aurora McCreary (Edge of Extinction, 7th place) (7)
104. Hannah Shapiro (Millennials vs. Gen X, 2nd place) (7)
104. Jeremy Collins (San Juan del Sur, 10th place) (7)
104. Sarah Lacina (Cagayan, 11th place) (7)
104. Tyson Apostol (Blood vs. Water, 1st place) (7)
104. Sophie Clarke (South Pacific, 1st place) (7)
104. Judson "Fabio" Birza (Nicaragua, 1st place) (7)
104. Bob Crowley (Gabon, 1st place) (7)
104. Natalie Bolton (Micronesia, 4th place) (7)
104. Jaime Dugan (China, 10th place) (7)
104. Bobby Jon Drinkard (Palau, 10th place) (7)
104. Stephenie LaGrossa (Palau, 7th place) (7)
104. Deena Bennett (The Amazon, 8th place) (7)
104. Sean Rector (Marquesas, 5th place) (7)
104. Michael Skupin (The Australian Outback, 11th place) (7)
104. Alicia Calaway (The Australian Outback, 9th place) (7)
104. Jenna Lewis (Borneo, 8th place) (7)
104. Colleen Haskell (Borneo, 6th place) (7)
103. Keith Nale (San Juan del Sur, 4th place) (7.14)

Get out and stay out Nicaragua, fuck the hell off South Pacific.

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Our top 100 (102)

Richard Hatch (Borneo, 1st place)
Sue Hawk (Borneo, 4th place)
Greg Buis (Borneo, 9th place)

Tina Wesson (The Australian Outback, 1st place)
Colby Donaldson (The Australian Outback, 2nd place)
Jerri Manthey (The Australian Outback, 8th place)

Tom Buchanan (Africa, 4th place)
Teresa "T-Bird" Cooper (Africa, 5th place)

Kathy Vavrick-O'Brien (Marquesas, 3rd place)
Rob Mariano (Marquesas, 10th place)

Brian Heidik (Thailand, 1st place)
Helen Glover (Thailand, 4th place)
Shii Ann Huang (Thailand, 10th place)
Robb Zbacnik (Thailand, 11th place)

Matthew von Ertfelda (The Amazon, 2nd place)
Rob Cesternino (The Amazon, 3rd place)
Heidi Strobel (The Amazon, 5th place)

Sandra Diaz-Twine (Pearl Islands, 1st place)
Jon "Jonny Fairplay" Dalton (Pearl Islands, 3rd place)
Rupert Boneham (Pearl Islands, 8th place)

Shii Ann Huang (All-Stars, 6th place)
Jerri Manthey (All-Stars, 10th place)

Chris Daugherty (Vanuatu, 1st place)
Eliza Orlins (Vanuatu, 4th place)
Ami Cusack (Vanuatu, 6th place)
Rory Freeman (Vanuatu, 10th place)

Ian Rosenberg (Palau, 3rd place)
James Miller (Palau, 12th place)
Angie Jakusz (Palau, 13th place)

Danni Boatwright (Guatemala, 1st place)
Gary Hogeboom (Guatemala, 7th place)
Bobby Jon Drinkard (Guatemala, 9th place)
Amy O'Hara (Guatemala, 11th place)

Cirie Fields (Exile Island, 4th place)
Shane Powers (Exile Island, 5th place)
Courtney Marit (Exile Island, 6th place)
Bruce Kanegai (Exile Island, 7th place)
Bobby "Bob Dawg" Mason (Exile Island, 12th place)

Yul Kwon (Cook Islands, 1st place)
Jonathan Penner (Cook Islands, 7th place)
Anh-Tuan "Cao Boi" Bui (Cook Islands, 15th place)

Earl Cole (Fiji, 1st place)
Yau-Man Chan (Fiji, 4th place)

Todd Herzog (China, 1st place)
Courtney Yates (China, 2nd place)
Amanda Kimmel (China, 3rd place)
Peih-Gee Law (China, 5th place)
James Clement (China, 7th place)
Jean-Robert Bellande (China, 9th place)

Parvati Shallow (Micronesia, 1st place)
Cirie Fields (Micronesia, 3rd place)
Erik Reichenbach (Micronesia, 5th place)
Jason Siska (Micronesia, 8th place)
Eliza Orlins (Micronesia, 10th place)
Jonathan Penner (Micronesia, 15th place)

Randy Bailey (Gabon, 8th place)

James "J.T." Thomas, Jr (Tocantins, 1st place)
Stephen Fishbach (Tocantins, 2nd place)
Benjamin "Coach" Wade (Tocantins, 5th place)
Tyson Apostol (Tocantins, 8th place)

Dave Ball (Samoa, 8th place)

Sandra Diaz-Twine (Heroes vs. Villains, 1st place)
Parvati Shallow (Heroes vs. Villains, 2nd place)
Jerri Manthey (Heroes vs. Villains, 4th place)
Courtney Yates (Heroes vs. Villains, 11th place)
Rob Mariano (Heroes vs. Villains, 13th place)

Denise Stapley (Philippines, 1st place)
Malcolm Freberg (Philippines, 4th place)
Jonathan Penner (Philippines, 7th place)

Tina Wesson (Blood vs. Water, 4th place)
Ciera Eastin (Blood vs. Water, 5th place)
Vytas Baskauskas (Blood vs. Water, 10th place)

Tony Vlachos (Cagayan, 1st place)
Yung "Woo" Hwang (Cagayan, 2nd place)
Kass McQuillen (Cagayan, 3rd place)
Spencer Bledsoe (Cagayan, 4th place)
Trish Hegarty (Cagayan, 5th place)
Tasha Fox (Cagayan, 6th place)
J'Tia Taylor (Cagayan, 15th place)

Natalie Anderson (San Juan del Sur, 1st place)

Jeremy Collins (Cambodia, 1st place)
Kelley Wentworth (Cambodia, 4th place)
Stephen Fishbach (Cambodia, 9th place)
Kass McQuillen (Cambodia, 13th place)

Aubry Bracco (Kaoh Rong, 2nd place)
Tai Trang (Kaoh Rong, 3rd place)
Debbie Wanner (Kaoh Rong, 9th place)

David Wright (Millennials vs. Gen X, 4th place)
Michaela Bradshaw (Millennials vs. Gen X, 14th place)

Cirie Fields (Game Changers, 6th place)
Michaela Bradshaw (Game Changers, 7th place)
Sandra Diaz-Twine (Game Changers, 15th place)

Chrissy Hofbeck (Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers, 2nd place)
Lauren Rimmer (Heroes vs. Healers vs. Hustlers, 7th place)

Chris Noble (Ghost Island, 13th place)
Stephanie Johnson (Ghost Island, 16th place)

Angelina Keeley (David vs. Goliath, 3rd place)
Davie Rickenbacker (David vs. Goliath, 6th place)
Christian Hubicki (David vs. Goliath, 7th place)
Gabby Pascuzzi (David vs. Goliath, 8th place)

Reem Daly (Edge of Extinction, 16th place)
Wendy Diaz (Edge of Extinction, 17th place)

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Jenna above Rudy? Seriously?

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Underleveled posted...

Any predictions for the top 10/winner?

Predicting Hatch or one of the Sandras.

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MartinFF7 posted...

There's a reason the casuals love Ben as HxHxH winner even if his gameplay was sloppy and he was a dick at times. He was a big personality in a game that naturally rewards weak characters.

The problem is that HvHvH didn't need a Ben because it already had Chrissy, Cole, Lauren, Joe, Jessica, Devon, Alan, and Dr. Mike, all great personalities and, for better or worse, interesting players. It really could have been a top 10 season without Ben mucking up those last few episodes.

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how do you mention 8 players there without Ryan being one of them

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Him too to a lesser degree. And Simone in the one episode in which she got airtime. See? Didn't need Ben.

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Underleveled posted...

I really don't get how you love Cambodia but hate the seasons that replicate it.

Cambodia was natural. The replications are not. Production's attempts to replicate what made Cambodia great have failed to give those seasons their own identities. Except for David vs. Goliath.
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What made Cambodia great, exactly? Because my interpretation is that all these replication seasons failed because the original season being replicated was bad to begin with.

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DvG is nothing like Cambodia. It's much closer to Cagayan.

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The cat ran out of lives

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Ew J'Tia top 100 really?

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UnderUrMattress posted...

Ew J'Tia top 100 really?

J'Tia has always been loved around these parts. She wasn't even like Abi-Maria where most of the board hated her in the first airing and then grew to love her on rewatches; she was loved when Cagayan was on the air.

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its weird how most of the top 100 is pretty much perfect and then you see a name that just makes you go "huh?"

okay rory was a fun character in vanuatu but top 100 all time, what

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Brian and Yul definitely don't deserve to be up here. Or Spencer.

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really wish sophie had made top 100 but i'll have to trust that s40 sophie will crush it and make the next incarnation of this

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spencer and brian and yul all good top 100 choices, lol inviso

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Spencer is an obnoxious dickhead, Brian is a misogynistic sociopath, and Yul is a smug, boring, douchebag.

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and they can still be fun top 100 characters

there are plenty of people who i wouldnt pick for my personal list but i'd still say i understand why they got picked

why wendy is here on the other hand, who knows

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Wendy is hardly the one to question when Stephanie Johnson is still around.

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i feel like stephanie johnson gets an inherent bump from ghost island kind of being terrible

but yeah more than anything when you aggregate a list like this you just get people that were mostly inoffensive and fairly well-liked getting higher than they would reasonably otherwise

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Cambodia is a great season and this is the only community that doesn't think so.
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Hot take - Rory IS a top 100 Survivor character.

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eaedwards6400 posted...

Cambodia is a great season and this is the only community that doesn't think so.

hey, i put it in my top five!

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most of the people here do actually like cambodia, it's pretty much just inviso and dark

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eaedwards6400 posted...

Cambodia is a great season and this is the only community that doesn't think so.

SurvivorSucks thinks poorly of it too, and it has a vocal anti-fan base on reddit as well.

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I think Cambodia itself is fine but its influence on every season that followed is undeniable and what truly triggered a lot of what we have been discussing in this topic series previously as far as what production envisions in Survivor nowadays. Production was pushing an agenda hard this season and the players who responded positively to it were rewarded with significant edits while those who didn't were mostly ignored. Maybe Michele's win was the straw that broke the camel's back but it was ultimately the idea that the game is supposed to be played a certain way, pushed so hard in Cambodia, that made her so controversial in the first place. I won't deny the wonderful cast and the often entertaining gameplay, but it still suffered from under-editing certain players to a gross extent (in exchange for bloating the airtime of others, who offer repetitive strategic confessionals) and fabricating storylines that were visibly untrue, Spencer being the very worst offender by far. For every amazing character there were some blatant duds (as far as the final product is concerned, anyway).

I think I've softened on it with the years but it's all on the strength of its cast, because the editors/production did everything in their power to make it worse. I still think the first four episodes together are one of the best pre-merge streaks we've ever seen, and I'm controversially a big fan of Savage because the editors really didn't even try to make him not be a complete douchenozzle and I'm all for a strong villain with such a satisfying takedown. And even more personally speaking, I'm not big on Wentworth either. I find her a little too put-on; she was trying so damn hard to be somebody and it showed in spades, and I'm not a big fan of players having that mentality. It's especially noticeable when contrasting her with how she was on EoE and SJDS. I thought she was a lot less focused on creating soundbites and being a character here while still being fabulously scrappy, and I liked her a ton better as a result.

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I thought Cambodia was a fascinating, unique season from the point of its initial premise - fans voting on who they wanted to see in the game - and it played out like a really intense sporting event. For some people, that might not be compelling, and I could see how the editing for newbie seasons wouldn't work well for that approach.
But in Cambodia there was such a dramatic energy throughout the season. We had players who were compelled to go hard because they felt responsible to the fans after being voted in. and with players the audience was familiar with, the gameplay was able to shine. I love both the drama and characters in the show along with the game itself; there's a reason why I like competitive reality shows and not the plethora of others. Cambodia really leaned on the game but it did so in a consistently compelling way that no other season outside of Heroes Villains even comes close to.

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