Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 250: Hearing Laws

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red sox 777
12/02/19 3:05:47 PM
#454:


You know, Trump is right that George Conway is only going to be remembered in history as Kellyanne's husband.
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HashtagSEP
12/02/19 3:06:19 PM
#455:


Corrik7 posted...
HeroDelTiempo17 posted...
What about the area Trump has direct and personal control over - appointing of lobbyists to cabinet positions?
Ex lobbyists.


You do realize several of them are only "ex lobbyists" because they were appointed to cabinet positions, right.

Hell, Pruitt's back to being one!
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xp1337
12/02/19 3:08:07 PM
#456:


can you even be a lobbyist and a government appointee simultaneously?

are you really still lobbying the government when you are government?
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red sox 777
12/02/19 3:10:57 PM
#457:


You gotta bring in the people who know the swamp best if you want to drain the swamp! It's like Darth Sidious said....."once more the Sith shall rule the galaxy.....and we shall have peace."
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red sox 777
12/02/19 3:20:26 PM
#458:


Really though, what the voters are looking for is not more evidence against Trump. What they want is contrition from liberals. Genuine contrition.
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Dancedreamer
12/02/19 3:23:09 PM
#459:


Trump's position on lobbyists: Get them out of lobbying (and into the government where they can actually control things for their former industry)
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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 3:29:06 PM
#460:


Didn't expect to be saying this, but uh... good for Brian Kemp?
https://twitter.com/Politics1com/status/1201590161701818372

(Not saying that his pick is necessarily good, but it's not Trump's to make and good on Kemp for effectively telling him to go fuck himself)

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Corrik7
12/02/19 3:45:45 PM
#461:


HashtagSEP posted...
You do realize several of them are only "ex lobbyists" because they were appointed to cabinet positions, right.

Hell, Pruitt's back to being one!
Getting rid of lobbyists and making sure they stay employed. Way to go!

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Jakyl25
12/02/19 3:51:51 PM
#462:


LordoftheMorons posted...
Didn't expect to be saying this, but uh... good for Brian Kemp?
https://twitter.com/Politics1com/status/1201590161701818372

(Not saying that his pick is necessarily good, but it's not Trump's to make and good on Kemp for effectively telling him to go fuck himself)


Took me a minute to realize the name wasnt Cong Doug Collins
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Dancedreamer
12/02/19 4:02:10 PM
#463:


Forceful_Dragon posted...
You can see a literal video of him attempting to use his position for a political advantage.


538: Yes, there is video, but Democrats lack proof that Donald Trump is actually Donald Trump in that video and not a Shapeshifter.
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red sox 777
12/02/19 4:03:36 PM
#464:


Dancedreamer posted...
Forceful_Dragon posted...
You can see a literal video of him attempting to use his position for a political advantage.


538: Yes, there is video, but Democrats lack proof that Donald Trump is actually Donald Trump in that video and not a Shapeshifter.


Or Trump was just performing a sketch of what Hillary would be doing in his position!
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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 5:39:33 PM
#465:


McGahn stay denied:

https://twitter.com/jgeltzer/status/1201621321127354368?s=21

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MoogleKupo141
12/02/19 5:57:29 PM
#466:


I realize that means his stay was denied, but I read it like yo McGahn! stay denied, bitch!

stay denied is a cool insult

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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 9:21:49 PM
#467:


Bill Barr continues to pour gasoline on the flaming remains of the DoJs credibility as an apolitical institution:

https://twitter.com/mikedelmoro/status/1201658707798609929?s=21

Theres some stiff competition, but he very well might be the member of the Trump administration who will have caused the most long lasting damage after Trump is gone (other than Trump himself).

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xp1337
12/02/19 9:28:28 PM
#468:


Off the top of my head I'd say the biggest competitors would be Tillerson (for hollowing out State) and Miller (for seemingly being the architect and pusher of the most heinous policies.)

But yeah, I think it's probably Barr or Tillerson depending on just how long it takes to rebuild State.
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Forceful_Dragon
12/02/19 9:30:22 PM
#469:


I nominate The Mooch for least damaging.

For one he only lasted 10 days and for another he has actually spoken out against the toe-the-line Republican tactic regarding impeachment.
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xp1337
12/02/19 9:34:14 PM
#470:


The Office of Press Secretary has also suffered quite a blow and I considered naming it an honorable mention but it's really been more of a sustained assault on it from Spicer, Sanders, and Grisham to the point where it's almost hard to say who did the most damage to it as an institution.

In theory this could be rectified pretty quickly. However, there's a real danger future administrations will see that it's "totally cool" to just... not hold press conferences and/or just blatantly and shamelessly lie on the very rare occasion you do... and that would be awful for transparency and could be an issue long-term. Not to mention the damage to its credibility possibly being fatal either way.
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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 9:39:20 PM
#471:


Im trying to think of whats not been fucked

DoD has probably been more successful than most in holding their ground, but I wouldnt be surprised if they start to crumble faster now after the war criminal pardons and surrounding fallout.

I guess the Fed has held up pretty well in the face of extreme pressure!

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kevwaffles
12/02/19 9:48:53 PM
#472:


Most everything they've done that isn't foreign policy related can be fixed virtually instantly by another administration.
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Peace___Frog
12/02/19 9:54:19 PM
#473:


kevwaffles posted...
Most everything they've done that isn't foreign policy related can be fixed virtually instantly by another administration.

I don't think this is remotely true. A number of domestic policies - lets not forget the damage to our national parks during the government shutdown - will leave lasting marks for at least a generation.
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xp1337
12/02/19 9:57:37 PM
#474:


kevwaffles posted...
Most everything they've done that isn't foreign policy related can be fixed virtually instantly by another administration.

Yes and no.

For some things, even if another administration can fix them, the precedent set that you can just get away with doing things the way this administration has is damaging itself. Like I noted in the Press Secretary blurb, yeah, in theory this could be fixed with a new administration that simply holds press conferences and tells the truth. But the precedent that you can do this with no consequences is pretty chilling for the future when someone more competent tries it.

But for others I'd disagree straight-up. Take Tillerson's hollowing out of the State Department and this would also apply to other agencies where career public servants are being pushed out (I forget which one did this, but there was a story where they didn't explicitly fire anyone, but moved the office like 1500 miles away and were quoted as the natural consequence of many quitting because they can't just upend their family on a dime like that was seen as a goal of the move) is that you not only lose their experience in the moment, but they're people who have to move on with their lives and find other jobs and whatnot so you can't necessarily expect to be able to go, "Hey guys, we have sane management again, come on back!" and refill that void that was created. That damage will persist.

Though yes, there certainly are things were the damage can be reversed fairly completely and fairly quickly simply with a new President - some Executive Orders, for instance.
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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 10:00:15 PM
#475:


Theres also a huge loss of institutional knowledge from all of the government employees who quit or were run out (particularly, as xp mentioned, in State). And it might be overly optimistic to expect that trust in government is totally rebuilt as soon as Trump is out (in particular, even if one trusts the, e.g., Warren admin, theres now more reason to believe that someone like Trump could be elected again down the line, leading to a higher assessed risk for long term engagements with the US government).

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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 10:01:47 PM
#476:


I believe Agriculture is the Department moving to Kansas to force attrition.

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Jakyl25
12/02/19 10:11:16 PM
#477:


kevwaffles posted...
Most everything they've done that isn't foreign policy related can be fixed virtually instantly by another administration.


Nope

They can be rectified moving forward easily enough, but the damage done to the people is irreversible
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pyresword
12/02/19 10:40:13 PM
#478:


I think as a society our trust in government was extremely low even before Trump. It honestly might be higher now just because of how much the hardcore Republican base loves him.

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pyresword
12/02/19 10:41:32 PM
#479:


Oh wait you meant foreign government's trust in the US government.

Ignore me.

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LordoftheMorons
12/02/19 10:47:19 PM
#480:


Mostly foreign governments, but it's also relevant for, say, government hiring. If I'm considering working for, say, the EPA I might think twice if I think there's a decent chance another Trump will be elected in a decade and upend my career.

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red sox 777
12/02/19 11:40:44 PM
#481:


xp1337 posted...
kevwaffles posted...
Most everything they've done that isn't foreign policy related can be fixed virtually instantly by another administration.

Yes and no.

For some things, even if another administration can fix them, the precedent set that you can just get away with doing things the way this administration has is damaging itself. Like I noted in the Press Secretary blurb, yeah, in theory this could be fixed with a new administration that simply holds press conferences and tells the truth. But the precedent that you can do this with no consequences is pretty chilling for the future when someone more competent tries it.

But for others I'd disagree straight-up. Take Tillerson's hollowing out of the State Department and this would also apply to other agencies where career public servants are being pushed out (I forget which one did this, but there was a story where they didn't explicitly fire anyone, but moved the office like 1500 miles away and were quoted as the natural consequence of many quitting because they can't just upend their family on a dime like that was seen as a goal of the move) is that you not only lose their experience in the moment, but they're people who have to move on with their lives and find other jobs and whatnot so you can't necessarily expect to be able to go, "Hey guys, we have sane management again, come on back!" and refill that void that was created. That damage will persist.

Though yes, there certainly are things were the damage can be reversed fairly completely and fairly quickly simply with a new President - some Executive Orders, for instance.


This is why Trump has been remarkably successful on delivering on his central campaign promise of draining the swamp. Of course the swamp doesn't see itself as the swamp, which is why all previous presidents failed in this area. Forcing out career government employees is precisely the point.
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Jakyl25
12/03/19 12:17:19 AM
#482:


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LordoftheMorons
12/03/19 12:22:19 AM
#483:


So disgusting that we have half of the House GOP pushing a qanon level conspiracy theory that isn't even internally consistent

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Nelson_Mandela
12/03/19 1:25:06 PM
#484:


Harris out!

Only 1 more truly terrifying wannabe authoritarian left in the Democrat field
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LordoftheMorons
12/03/19 1:25:45 PM
#485:


Harris is dropping out

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Grimlyn
12/03/19 1:26:06 PM
#486:


Harris out.
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Grimlyn
12/03/19 1:26:15 PM
#487:


dammit lotm
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red sox 777
12/03/19 1:26:58 PM
#488:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Harris out!

Only 1 more truly terrifying wannabe authoritarian left in the Democrat field


You mean Warren?
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Forceful_Dragon
12/03/19 1:28:59 PM
#489:


Came here to post about harris being out.

It appears I'm late. Almost as late as this move from Harris.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/03/19 1:29:32 PM
#490:


red sox 777 posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
Harris out!

Only 1 more truly terrifying wannabe authoritarian left in the Democrat field


You mean Warren?

yup
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ChaosTonyV4
12/03/19 1:31:21 PM
#491:


Chapo called it

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LordoftheMorons
12/03/19 1:31:44 PM
#492:


https://twitter.com/kfile/status/1201911233852723201?s=21

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red sox 777
12/03/19 1:34:22 PM
#493:


Warren's ideas are blatantly unconstitutional though and complete nonstarters with Republicans though, so they won't get passed. And the feeling I get is that she genuinely supports the proletariat more than the bourgeoisie (despite having been in a bourgeois environment for decades). So the rich will not be harmed, the country will not be harmed, and the proletariat will not be harmed.
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HeroDelTiempo17
12/03/19 1:47:19 PM
#494:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Harris out!

Only 1 more truly terrifying wannabe authoritarian left in the Democrat field


Well we need them to compete with the Republican ones

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DoomTheGyarados
12/03/19 1:49:35 PM
#495:


One less person to take up Bernie's time on stage.
Also I am going to laugh if Tulsi makes the debate stage and thus very officially lasted longer than Harris.


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Corrik7
12/03/19 1:52:04 PM
#496:


Surprised Harris dropped out. Yougov had her beating Trump by 5 points nationwide lol.

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LordoftheMorons
12/03/19 1:54:54 PM
#497:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Also I am going to laugh if Tulsi makes the debate stage and thus very officially lasted longer than Harris.
Easier to stay in when you're not running to win and have no actual political future to risk!

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Kenri
12/03/19 1:55:28 PM
#498:


LordoftheMorons posted...
https://twitter.com/kfile/status/1201911233852723201?s=21
Wild, but hardly surprising given the variety of topics on which republicans have been, for decades, denying reality.

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Leafeon13N
12/03/19 1:58:58 PM
#499:


Harris could be a strong candidate 8 or so years down the road. Clearly wasn't prepared for the level of organization needed for a presidential campaign.
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red sox 777
12/03/19 2:02:38 PM
#500:


LordoftheMorons posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
Also I am going to laugh if Tulsi makes the debate stage and thus very officially lasted longer than Harris.
Easier to stay in when you're not running to win and have no actual political future to risk!


What do you mean? She's going to be the Republican nominee in 2024. I don't think the country will stomach going directly from father to daughter, so we'll need a non-Trump to run in 2024.
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