Board 8 > SaveEstelle-cha & LeonhartFour-cha in Different Houses: Cha Edition [SELF]

(+) Yeah! (+)

Mac Arrowny posted...

Incidentally, we don't know whether the Grandmaster is male or female, right?

Spoilers/Speculation from the cutscene block from Heimdallr Cathedral (CS3): My read on it was when Vita started talking to herself right before/as the cryptids appeared in Heimdallr and made the comment to the effect of, "The Phantasmal Blaze plan, what a fitting name. I wonder if she foresaw even this..." that the "she" she spoke of was meant to refer to the Grandmaster. The way I restated the quote doesn't seem to imply it as hard as the feeling I took at the time so I don't know if I messed the phrasing up or just read too much into in the moment but I took it as the "she" also being the one who named the plan... which would almost certainly be the Grandmaster, right? Also not too sure who else the "she" could be in terms of "foresaw even this..." Can't be Roselia I think and I don't know who else Vita would be speaking of given she seemed to be saying it rather fondly. Especially since she had just restated her loyalty to the Grandmaster earlier in the cutscene.
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Oh, for some reason that jogged my memory of something that had immediately made me pause and narrow my eyes but could never check to verify.

(Heimdallr NPC, nothing happened with this (yet!) so I don't even know why I'm tagging this) The bar owner on Towa's Street (What was that, Vesta District?) has the name "Arendt" IIRC that is the same name as the author of a couple of the books you can read from CS1's Recommended Reading (and also in the Branch Campus's library for reference) but since you don't have access to the library at that point and those books don't get added the notebook I could never check. I'd say it was just a coincidence or a descendant at best but I don't believe in coincidences in Trails and I was on high alert around that guy at all times from the moment I met him lol
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CS3 beated

Wonder if Millium dying was part of Musse's plan. Dick move if so.

Kinda funny that Crow's first move after getting his memory back is saving Osborne's life...

Chapters 4 and final were definitely my favorite two of the game. I liked the party scene quite a bit. It felt like the best of what Trails is - you go around talking to 50 people, there's a cutscene, and then you have to talk to all 50 again, and every single one of them has very interesting things to say both times. Can only imagine how amazing the games would be if NPC dialogue were that great all the time.

xp1337 posted...

Also Musse clearly had her secret dealings with Aurelia and Vita throughout the game but how the hell did she predict any of this ****? who the hell is she that she could even get kinda close? Unless Aurelia was just exaggerating and it was like a "Okay, big picture stuff here - Osborne is gonna teamup with Ouroboros again and do some stuff to leave Heimdallr open so be ready to raid it for Ash and the Pantagruel to restart the #Resistance." But I feel like we're supposed to believe that no, she actually somehow knew about the Great Twilight plan. But hey Aurelia/Vita teamup sounds nuts so that could be amazing in CS4. And with the Pantagruel and Ash it'll be even more fun.

I'm assuming it's a combination of learning info from Vita/other nobles and some sort of power like Lechter/Claire/etc. have.
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Also just for fun Thors student tiers/rankingz. Mostly ranked within tiers.

The Best
Freddy - Holy shit every scene with him is amazing. He's badass, hilarious, ridiculous, has a great VA, is involved with some fun side quests, his eyes are fantastic... Man, this guy just rules.

Leonora - Man her design is amazing. I love the way she looks up at you when you talk to her. Her personality is fun too, and she carries around a huge gun. Her side quest was also quite good, since it was my favorite side plot in the game - Ferris vs. Klein Mall was amazing.

Tatiana - Everything with her is excellent. Love her interactions with Ash, and her shy personality in general is fantastic. Even her scenes with Musse manage to be good.

Good stuff
Valerie - Very nice backstory. Her story with the band was a lot of fun too. Good to have another North Ambrian. Wish she had some scenes with Sara (maybe next game?).

Maya - Some of the better character development for a random student. I liked basically everything about her, other than her being in the tea club (they never really showed what she got out of it...)

Pablo - Him creating the band was one of the highlights of early Thors, and he has the fun Scottish accent. Him trying to give Ash a train magazine for Ash's pleasure was hilarious.

Louise - I liked basically all her scenes, except the glasses ones. The theme of her getting more competent throughout the game was great. Not sure why she's so opposed to glasses though...

Jessica - Cool, but I wish there was a bit more to her. Her practicing with Aurelia probably best moment.

Wayne - One of the best comic relief characters. Him dealing with every problem with gains was great. Would've loved to see more of his childhood friend/family in Heimdallr.

Solid
Tita - I dunno, I feel like I liked her better in the Sky games? There's surprisingly little to her considering how much screentime she has, and I don't particularly like most of the Tita x Agate stuff.

Gustav - There's not much to him, but what there was was solid. The stuff with his mining background and how capitalism made everything worse for his hometown was good.

Sandy - I liked the thing about Sandy's past with Olivert. Otherwise she barely has a presence.

Stark - He's vaguely likable in pretty much every way. Doesn't have a strong personality or leave much of an impression though. Possibly the most "normal" student.

Lame
Sidney - He's redeemed a bit by everyone in the game knowing he's lame... but he's still lame.

Kairi - His "quest to be manly" thing sucked. Him joining the tea club sucks. Everything about him is blah.
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Leonora reminds me so much of Mion from Higurashi.
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I'd move Freddy and Tatiana down quite a bit, Jessica, Valerie, and Maya up (the former two being in top tier, Maya borderline), Stark up to Good, I think.

Tita is weird because while she's nominally a student her role feels more like a support in the vein of Schmidt/Mint/Linde etc.
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man the boss fights in this last dungeon have been a total joke so far thanks to Bursts and Breaks

CS3 has definitely been the easiest Trails game to date out of the ones I've played
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Some of the Brave Orders are hilariously overpowered combined with Breaks. Makes it so bosses do not get a single turn once they enter Break.

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I'm sure I've asked this before, but are the CS games worth playing in isolation if I would play the TitS games if they ever came out on a system I owned (but I'm not going to buy a PSP or deal with getting Windows games to work on my mac)?

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Well, two things.

1. Most people like the previous games more than the CS games

2. CS3 and CS4 are definitely sequels to the previous Trails games

Personally, I like the CS games more than the previous games, but I'm in the minority on that front. If I were you I'd probably try to get them working on your Mac... or you could see about getting a Vita TV, I suppose? Not sure if those are still cheap.
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It's not recommended, but it's still possible to enjoy them. You'll miss out on a lot of the richness of the world they've built and the depths of the plot, but I think they'd be enjoyable in isolation.
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It's an extremely hard ask to play through the entire Kiseki franchise, especially the older games that can be a tad on the dated side. While you may not appreciate all of the Sky/Crossbell references if you just play the Cold Steel games, I still think it's a valid way to get into the series.

And if you find yourself wanting to learn more about those characters or events, you can treat the earlier games as prequels.

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https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-legend-of-heroes-trails-of-cold-steel-3-is-com/1100-6471839/

While Trails of Cold Steel 3 dropped for PlayStation 4 in the west last October, NIS America has revealed to GameSpot that the series will be making its debut on the Nintendo Switch next year.

So this is why they switched to NISA.

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Ring Fit Adventure Day 4 complete

Now that I'm finally back, I beat the World 2 boss and now I'm on to World 3!
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Also, I need to start playing some of these PS+ games I've got on backlog, so which should I start with?

Bloodborne
Child of Light
Grim Fandango Remastered
Hitman
Horizon Zero Dawn: Complete Edition
inFAMOUS First Light
Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty
Rayman Legends
Resident Evil HD
Rogue Legacy
The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth
What Remains of Edith Finch
Wild Arms 3
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Hitman
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I also picked up Ori and the Blind Forest in the Switch sale yesterday.
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also what if the Grandmaster is Aidios herself in the Trails series
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that's been my prediction the entire time
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Cold Steel 3 beated

so they opted for the CS1-esque style of abruptly ending the game at a crucial moment huh

I guess that goes along with the idea that CS1-2 and CS3-4 were originally meant to be one game instead of being split into two separate games, but yeah. That was kind of nuts.

There's part of me that has a hard time believing Olivier, Victor, and Toval are all really dead. Maybe not even Millium, if they can bring Crow back from the dead! She's a homunculus, so you can just remake her or something, right...? This series has repeatedly shown reluctance to permanently kill off characters, so I feel like there has to be a catch somewhere! But yeah, somehow Black Alberich overtook Osborne as the biggest scumbag in Cold Steel 3 right at the very end there, which might be the most unexpected twist of the endgame.

also who the heck has the seventh Divine Knight am I supposed to already know this

and Rean continues to be the Trails version of Fei Fong Wong by losing control of his powers at inopportune moments

now give me Cold Steel 4 with playable Joshua and Estelle again please

Anyway, I think I'd still consider Sky SC to be the best game in the series, but Cold Steel 3 is a clear second. Great game.
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Bloodborne imo. I wish I could have fully played it myself but its a masterpiece.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm sure I've asked this before, but are the CS games worth playing in isolation if I would play the TitS games if they ever came out on a system I owned (but I'm not going to buy a PSP or deal with getting Windows games to work on my mac)?

I'd say if you're interested pick up and play CS1. While you'd be missing out on some references and broader setting knowledge that'll make you go "Huh? I heard about that in [past game], neat to see it here!" CS1 is a totally fine entry point.

Honestly, you only really get into the more thorny question of, "Well, okay, do I need to have played the Sky trilogy" once you're ready to play CS3 so that's more of a bridge to cross when/if you get there. And even there, I think it would probably be okay if you had CS1/CS2 going in there though at that point the missing references go from something you honestly might not even notice to a point where it's obvious. But that said you'd still be largely in step with the protagonist who also doesn't have that knowledge so you'd be roughly on the same page as them.

pyresword posted...

So this is why they switched to NISA.

Huh. Still think they simply outbid XSEED unless Falcom then goes and ports NISA's port back to Japan. Feels like a really weird choice to just have CS3 on Switch lol.

LeonhartFour posted...

also what if the Grandmaster is Aidios herself in the Trails series

Yeah, that's been my guess for... as long as I've had a guess? Probably FC (with the most grasping at straws logic/JRPG logic), but definitely SC.

LeonhartFour posted...

also who the heck has the seventh Divine Knight am I supposed to already know this

I don't believe we are, no. Either that or I missed the clues.

LeonhartFour posted...

Anyway, I think I'd still consider Sky SC to be the best game in the series, but Cold Steel 3 is a clear second. Great game.

o ya

LeonhartFour posted...

Also, I need to start playing some of these PS+ games I've got on backlog, so which should I start with?

[games]

Bloodborne, IMO. The gameplay very much may not be for you, though I'd recommend sticking with it for a bit before making a final conclusion against it and dropping it if it came to that. It's definitely a "you're always learning" type of gameplay but if it clicks... man it clicks. Absolutely a valid pick of game of the generation, IMO, I was shocked by how much I fell in love with it.

So yeah, I'd give it a try at least. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.
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I think Cold Steel does a decent job of filling in the backstory for you through books and stuff. You miss out on the emotional impact from not developing an attachment to the other worlds and casts, but I think you can largely follow along with the story.
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also what if the G. in G. Schmidt stands for "Gnome" in Cold Steel

and what if the Grandmaster is Estelle but she just doesn't know it
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First Light is a prequel to Second Son
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pjbasis posted...

First Light is a prequel to Second Son

yeah I know which would mean I'd have to play inFAMOUS2 and Second Son before I even played it...!
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LeonhartFour posted...

also what if the G. in G. Schmidt stands for "Gnome" in Cold Steel

and what if the Grandmaster is Estelle but she just doesn't know it

Dorothy still suspect af tbqhhhhh. also where were anton and ricky? ...unless they were there all along as the grandmaster
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xp1337 posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

also what if the G. in G. Schmidt stands for "Gnome" in Cold Steel

and what if the Grandmaster is Estelle but she just doesn't know it

Dorothy still suspect af tbqhhhhh. also where were anton and ricky? ...unless they were there all along as the grandmaster

what if Ricky is the Grandmaster but the amnesia made him forget that he is

it would explain why Osborne was able to usurp the Phantasmal Blaze Plan and basically absorb Ouroboros and the Black Workshop for his own purposes
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oh my god

that is now my comedy option theory
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xp1337 posted...

Dorothy still suspect af tbqhhhhh. also where were anton and ricky? ...unless they were there all along as the grandmaster

I've migrated to the belief that Nial and Dorothy are with the Church tbh. I agree she's suspicious as heck but I feel like this explanation would make more sense given their role in the Sky games.

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What do I need to know about Bloodborne before I play it? I probably won't start it until tonight, so I just need to have an idea of what I'm in for here.
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Ever played Dark Souls?
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I have never played a Souls game, no.
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LeonhartFour posted...

What do I need to know about Bloodborne before I play it? I probably won't start it until tonight, so I just need to have an idea of what I'm in for here.

Think of it like an Action game with RPG Elements.

As you kill things you get "souls" this is both your main currency as well as EXP. You can use it to buy items or spend it to level up. When you die (and you will die often, it's just the way of the game, both from learning the game and just... place is dangerous) any unspent souls you have are dropped. When you respawn, if you can make it to the spot where you died approximately, you can regain the souls you dropped by picking it up (you'll see a shining bloodstain, that's it) if you die before that they're gone for good (or more properly, your new death overwrites that old one, only one of those bloodstains can be active at a time.) Don't get too hung up on this. Yeah, it sucks, but it's another things that's gonna happen on occasion (and probably more often in the start.) You can mitigate this by spending them so you're not carrying around a ton at once.

As for weapons and levelling. At the very beginning of the game you're gonna die quickly (it's not scripted but you're unarmed and while it's possible to fight through it all don't expect that!) and spawn in the central hub of the game where the shops and level-up stuff is. The first visit there will be these weird skeleton dudes on the stairs offering up weapons. There's 3 and you get to pick one for free (you cna buy the others later.) This'll be your starter weapon. Personally, I picked the Threaded Cane (it's a cane... that can transform into a whipsword) but just pick whatever - each weapon has stat requirements listed in either Strength, Skill, Bloodtinge (guns), or Arcane (magic) as long as you meet them for a weapon you can use it.

You technically can't level-up immediately. You need to gain what's called Insight first. You get one automatically by stumbling into a boss, and there's also some consumable items scattered throughout the first area that grant it on use. Insight doesn't go away when you die so don't worry. Once you have it a new NPC is added to the hub who levels you up in exchange for souls. In the early going I'd recommend Vitality (for more health) and/or Strength/Skill (ideally focus on one that matches the weapon you're using but don't worry too much about this imhotbqh)

As for exploration. It's usually fairly linear though it may not always seem like it, but you can unlock shortcuts to make traversal easier like unlocking doors from the other side or elevators.

Basic primer on weapons - each weapon has two forms. Standard and "Trick" you can switch between them with L1. It basically changes the weapon up and gives it a different moveset or hitbox, etc. Like the Threaded Cane going from a Cane to a Whipsword. R1 is your normal attack in both and R2 is usually a charged power attack. You're also gonna have a gun. At the start, don't rally use this for damage dealing, instead, if you time it to hit an enemy in their attack animation you can interrupt it and stun them. If done correctly they kneel down and you can approach them from the front and hit R1 for a big attack. You can do something similar if you sneak up on one and backstab them with a charged R2 followed by R1 after they kneel.

I know I wrote a lot here and it might seem overwhelming but really it's trial by experience IMO. You'll die a lot and hopefully learn a lot from each life.

also dodging is op. you get some nice invincibility frames and can like dodge right into attacks unharmed if you're good enough so don't be afraid to try it.
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Yeah, it sounds like the sort of thing where you die a lot from what I've heard. Is there any sort of overarching plot or ultimate goal?
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There's a lot of lore, but the actual plot is very vague. It's not story-driven. You go because gameplay.
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Of all the games you mentioned, I'd probably go with Ori. Child of Light or Rayman Legends for the PS+ ones. I didn't get very far into Bloodborne before I gave up...
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LeonhartFour posted...

Is there any sort of overarching plot or ultimate goal?

Yes and no. It's not super plot driven. The lore is actually very extensive but it's mostly in item descriptions and piecing together disparate clues.

Your "ultimate goal" is basically to escape the nightmare world but you aren't really given explicit directions like "go here, then do that." Generally speaking though, there's a kind of critical path of bosses you must beat to advance things. For the beginning though you're basically going to just want to explore. There's only one real way "out" of the first area into the second at first and it's only then where you start having the options to venture into optional areas.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Of all the games you mentioned, I'd probably go with Ori. Child of Light or Rayman Legends for the PS+ ones. I didn't get very far into Bloodborne before I gave up...

Yeah, a platformer would probably be the "safer" bet for me, but I'd at least like to try one of these games to determine if they're for me or not.

I do need to play a Resident Evil game one of these days, too.
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i'm super late but i think you'd enjoy hitman a lot
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Ori was good for the 4 hours of it I was able to play before the textures overwhelmed my shitty 2000's era graphics card.

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at least Dante knows whats up
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it legit seems like a game leon would have fun playing
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oh right I guess I need to do a Cold Steel 3 character ranking (although it's hard to rank the Sky characters solely based on their roles in Cold Steel because I want to rank them in totality)

Rean > Laura > Altina > Aurelia > Olivert > Emma > Jusis > Sara > Juna > Fie > Vita > Arianrhod > Celestin > Agate > Sharon > Towa > Randy > Kurt > Millium > Patrick > Victor > Gaius > Neithardt > Osborne > Rutger > Tio > Roselia > Alisa > Schmidt > Ash > Siegfried > Josette > Claire > Bardias > Duvalie > Celine > Lechter > Elliot > McBurn > Tita > Toval > Alfin > Elise > Campanella > Machias > Alberich > Michael > Musse > Angelica > George > Eugent > Ennea > Ines > Xeno > Leo > Cedric > Shirley

Something like that, maybe...?

Everyone below Musse is "bad." Musse manages to be the dividing line by being one of the biggest mysteries going into CS4, but she became virtually nothing as a character once they stopped making her flirt with Rean all the time. As a character, she isn't very interesting right now, but she at least has potential to be.

Along the same lines, Millium made a believer out of me in CS3. She was low tier in CS1 and CS2, so while there are still a lot of characters ahead of her, I just want to make a point to say she was so much better here than she had been previously.
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Shirley that low pains me but honestly I wasn't big on her in CS3 either. She was a lot better in Ao imo. (Still only like an upper-mid tier character but whatever)

Also yeah I liked both Millium and Altina a lot more in CS3.

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Hmm, new class 7 rankingz...

Ash > Altina > Juna > Kurt > Musse I think. Kurt seemed like he had potential at first, but his development wasn't that compelling. Altina had good development and I liked her personality here. I liked learning about Ash's character a lot, and his personality was a lot of fun. Juna was solid the whole time, but I wasn't really blown away by any of her stuff (her interactions with Class 1 in chapter 4 were a highlight). Musse had one good scene at the end of chapter 3 and other than that I didn't like her much. Her obsession with Rean was real bad. Get rid of that and I wouldn't have such dislike for her.

Cedric at the bottom of the rankings overall for me. Osborne probably the best of the villains? Actually, just for fun, ranking the Trails games by villains...

Azure > CS2 > Sky 2 > Sky 3 > CS3 > CS1 > Zero > Sky 1

Something like that? Would only say the top three had good villains, though, and Azure's a long way ahead of the rest. It would've been nice if CS3 had better new villains, though it does benefit from Vita being a good guy (I like her more than any of the game's actual villains.... Shirley was definitely a lot more interesting in Azure. She was kinda nothing here. One thing that really helps villains is when they have a personal connection with the protagonists, and the Randy/Shirley connection wasn't played up nearly enough for it to work in CS3.
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Shirley went from being an insane psychopath in Ao to a more normal person who just likes to fight a lot in CS3
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Yeah, I really wish they had done more with Kurt. It felt like he was kinda forgotten about after the first couple chapters.

Dude was an absolute beast in combat though.
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Yeah, he probably wrecked hardest. Plus he had the best Order of the new Class VII.
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I have no idea what a villain ranking for Kiseki would look like overall, but Azure at the top is pretty much a lock. Don't think any of the other games came even close on that particular front so far.

CS2 probably 2nd for me also mostly because Vita is great and also Osborne does some stuff and he's always been good.

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