Current Events > Joe Rogan Debunks Vegan Documentary The Game Changers with Chris Kresser

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Lebronwon
11/21/19 5:36:08 PM
#1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNhDHw5F2Ys

tl:dw- They go off on inaccuracies about the documentary. In another vid one study was being vegan gives you stronger erections.
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Not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7
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Funkydog
11/21/19 5:38:17 PM
#2:


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KillerSlaw
11/21/19 5:38:52 PM
#3:


Oh Rebel is just going to love this...
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DisneyFan462
11/21/19 5:40:40 PM
#4:


Tag
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justaguy3492
11/21/19 5:42:18 PM
#5:


His guest is a paleo diet nut job lol.
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vigorm0rtis
11/21/19 5:42:27 PM
#6:


Funkydog posted...
tl;dw



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spudger
11/21/19 5:43:44 PM
#7:


i dont get veganism. even early man, as hunter/gatherers, were not vegan.
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Smashingpmkns
11/21/19 5:44:37 PM
#8:


These diet discussions are so fucking boring.
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Funkydog
11/21/19 5:46:19 PM
#9:


spudger posted...
i dont get veganism. even early man, as hunter/gatherers, were not vegan.

Why are making posts on a computer, using the internet, to do so then? Early man didn't have those things afterall.

Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed. I fail to see about the conditions we used to live in have to do with anything in the modern day.
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Krojen
11/21/19 5:48:08 PM
#10:


Alt right Joe Rogan chats up chiropractoring paleo blogger on why red meat is actually an essential vitamin.
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spudger
11/21/19 5:48:16 PM
#11:


Funkydog posted...
Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed.

i get the ethical issue. animal farming is quite disgusting. there are ethical ways to eat meat, however.
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Funkydog
11/21/19 5:49:39 PM
#12:


spudger posted...
Funkydog posted...
Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed.

i get the ethical issue. animal farming is quite disgusting. there are ethical ways to eat meat, however.

Are there? Many would ask why a sentient being needs to die simply for something you enjoy, when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so. If at a cost of enjoyment and having to find things to supplement your diet with.
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spudger
11/21/19 5:51:06 PM
#13:


Funkydog posted...
when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so.

eh; this is murky. you can supplement the protein other ways but its typically not as effective as meat.

and high soy consumption, at least for men, is not good.
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DisneyFan462
11/21/19 5:51:53 PM
#14:


Funkydog posted...
spudger posted...
Funkydog posted...
Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed.

i get the ethical issue. animal farming is quite disgusting. there are ethical ways to eat meat, however.

Are there? Many would ask why a sentient being needs to die simply for something you enjoy, when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so. If at a cost of enjoyment and having to find things to supplement your diet with.


Its not healthy to even be vegetarian. You miss out on too many nutrients that plant substitutes or pill forms cannot adequately provide.
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justaguy3492
11/21/19 5:52:32 PM
#15:


DisneyFan462 posted...
Its not healthy to even be vegetarian. You miss out on too many nutrients that plant substitutes or pill forms cannot adequately provide.


Such as what?
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YourDrunkFather
11/21/19 5:56:34 PM
#16:


Funkydog posted...
Are there? Many would ask why a sentient being needs to die simply for something you enjoy, when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so. If at a cost of enjoyment and having to find things to supplement your diet with.


Because humans are carnivores who are meant to eat meat.

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Pepys Monster
11/21/19 5:57:35 PM
#17:


spudger posted...
there are ethical ways to eat meat, however.

No, there aren't.
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#18
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Funkydog
11/21/19 6:04:29 PM
#19:


YourDrunkFather posted...
Funkydog posted...
Are there? Many would ask why a sentient being needs to die simply for something you enjoy, when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so. If at a cost of enjoyment and having to find things to supplement your diet with.


Because humans are carnivores who are meant to eat meat.

lmao, yes. We are such great carnivores with four blunt "canines"

spudger posted...
Funkydog posted...
when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so.

eh; this is murky. you can supplement the protein other ways but its typically not as effective as meat.

and high soy consumption, at least for men, is not good.


The "research" on soy is either done on laughable small numbers of people (one person) or by biased groups, so I am not sure you can really say for certain if it is "good or bad"

It being "less effective" is largely irrelevant - it can give you what you need and doesn't come with the need of what are horrific conditions of animals that suffer throughout it.
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#20
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AngelsNAirwav3s
11/21/19 6:12:21 PM
#21:


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I4NRulez
11/21/19 6:19:14 PM
#22:


YourDrunkFather posted...
Funkydog posted...
Are there? Many would ask why a sentient being needs to die simply for something you enjoy, when you can live perfectly healthily without doing so. If at a cost of enjoyment and having to find things to supplement your diet with.


Because humans are carnivores who are meant to eat meat.


Well we're omnivores.

Had to edit mixed up herbivores and omnivores
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untrustful
11/21/19 6:21:21 PM
#23:


This is actually very bold of Rogan as no one on the internet has touched veganism and it's ideology.

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Purely
11/21/19 6:34:07 PM
#24:


Lol the vegan cult
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Giblet_Enjoyer
11/21/19 7:01:11 PM
#25:


justaguy3492 posted...
His guest is a paleo diet nut job lol.

Why are these guys always scrawny dweebs, I thought eating meat was supposed to make you look like Doomguy
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DisneyFan462
11/21/19 7:29:07 PM
#26:


justaguy3492 posted...
DisneyFan462 posted...
Its not healthy to even be vegetarian. You miss out on too many nutrients that plant substitutes or pill forms cannot adequately provide.


Such as what?


Iron and Omega 3 for instance
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Krojen
11/21/19 7:31:59 PM
#27:


Giblet_Enjoyer posted...
justaguy3492 posted...
His guest is a paleo diet nut job lol.

Why are these guys always scrawny dweebs, I thought eating meat was supposed to make you look like Doomguy

And Rogan bases his identity around manly stuff like hunting, ufc, and trt because he's 5'3.
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spudger
11/21/19 7:32:58 PM
#28:


untrustful posted...
This is actually very bold of Rogan as no one on the internet has touched veganism and it's ideology.

i think its bad to villainize vegans in general. most i know aren't the rabid social media hawks screaming at meat eaters and hunters.

but damn do those vegans ruin it for the rest.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 7:33:07 PM
#29:


spudger posted...
and high soy consumption, at least for men, is not good.


I keep seeing this conspiracy posted, but not any evidence. I live in one of the highest if not the highest soy consuming country in the world. Also happens to have the highest life expectancy for men in the world. So what is going on here?

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spudger
11/21/19 7:34:17 PM
#30:


ssjevot posted...
spudger posted...
and high soy consumption, at least for men, is not good.


I keep seeing this conspiracy posted, but not any evidence. I live in one of the highest if not the highest soy consuming country in the world. Also happens to have the highest life expectancy for men in the world. So what is going on here?

statistically, women do live longer than men...
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ssjevot
11/21/19 7:36:15 PM
#31:


spudger posted...
statistically, women do live longer than men...


That's literally true of every country in the world and not relevant to what I posted. Men don't live as long for a laundry list of reasons, and none of those reasons are related to soy.

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marc55
11/21/19 7:38:02 PM
#32:


Funkydog posted...
spudger posted...
i dont get veganism. even early man, as hunter/gatherers, were not vegan.

Why are making posts on a computer, using the internet, to do so then? Early man didn't have those things afterall.

Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed. I fail to see about the conditions we used to live in have to do with anything in the modern day.

so guess you never heard that vegan claim "humans arent made to eat meat "
they ve been saying this for a long time
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spudger
11/21/19 7:39:12 PM
#33:


ssjevot posted...
spudger posted...
statistically, women do live longer than men...


That's literally true of every country in the world and not relevant to what I posted. Men don't live as long for a laundry list of reasons, and none of those reasons are related to soy.

it was a joke. i guess it was too subtle.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 7:42:07 PM
#34:


marc55 posted...
so guess you never heard that vegan claim "humans arent made to eat meat "
they ve been saying this for a long time


I think the nature argument fails for a number of reasons, but probably the biggest being our ancestors didn't eat domestic chickens, cows, and pigs bred to produce as much food as possible.

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Esrac
11/21/19 8:00:00 PM
#35:


ssjevot posted...
marc55 posted...
so guess you never heard that vegan claim "humans arent made to eat meat "
they ve been saying this for a long time


I think the nature argument fails for a number of reasons, but probably the biggest being our ancestors didn't eat domestic chickens, cows, and pigs bred to produce as much food as possible.


I don't see how the meat is acquired matters. We have a lot of people to feed, of course we'd want to breed animals in a way that produces as much meat as we can.

We've been domesticating and breeding animals for their meat for more than 10,000 years, so of course our ancestors were breeding meat for what they could get out of the animals. On top of that, we've been hunting animals for more than 2 million years. Eating meat is entirely natural for our species.

You can argue that we may be eating too much meat, in the same way we're eating too much sugar, but that seems to be a different point than what you seemed to be getting at. Unless I misread you.
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Deadpool_18
11/21/19 8:01:19 PM
#36:


Funkydog posted...
spudger posted...
i dont get veganism. even early man, as hunter/gatherers, were not vegan.

Why are making posts on a computer, using the internet, to do so then? Early man didn't have those things afterall.

Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed. I fail to see about the conditions we used to live in have to do with anything in the modern day.


Talk about a garbage analogy.
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Giblet_Enjoyer
11/21/19 8:56:20 PM
#37:


Esrac posted...
I don't see how the meat is acquired matters. We have a lot of people to feed,

This has always been a bad argument. If you're worried about feeding people you should only be interested in growing crops for those people to eat since only about 10% of the food energy that went into raising a cow/chicken/etc makes it to your plate. Actually less since a lot of that isn't eaten.
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Esrac
11/21/19 9:01:26 PM
#38:


Giblet_Enjoyer posted...
Esrac posted...
I don't see how the meat is acquired matters. We have a lot of people to feed,

This has always been a bad argument. If you're worried about feeding people you should only be interested in growing crops for those people to eat since only about 10% of the food energy that went into raising a cow/chicken/etc makes it to your plate. Actually less since a lot of that isn't eaten.


Only if that's my only concern. I'd rather they provide meat AND crops, even if producing the meat is more costly.

Whether or not enough of that meat is being eaten after production is a different issue.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 9:04:30 PM
#39:


Esrac posted...
I don't see how the meat is acquired matters. We have a lot of people to feed, of course we'd want to breed animals in a way that produces as much meat as we can.

We've been domesticating and breeding animals for their meat for more than 10,000 years, so of course our ancestors were breeding meat for what they could get out of the animals. On top of that, we've been hunting animals for more than 2 million years. Eating meat is entirely natural for our species.

You can argue that we may be eating too much meat, in the same way we're eating too much sugar, but that seems to be a different point than what you seemed to be getting at. Unless I misread you.


You can't make an argument from evolution and nature if the best you can do is we started domesticating animals 10,000 years ago (which is extremely recent in human existence, and certainly not paleolithic which started over 3 million years ago). The nature argument is bad for a pile of reasons, but my entire point is nothing about our current society is like the state of nature we used to live in (which is good since most of us would be long dead based on life expectancy from those times). You can't say we evolved to eat this, and then eat stuff that is nothing like what we evolved to eat.

And like the person above pointed out, raising meat is horribly inefficient so you can't just compromise your own argument to say we have to modify meat from nature to feed more people. These paleo people just come off as completely unfounded because we don't live in the state of nature, we didn't live very long when we did, and the food they are eating is nothing like what people ate when they did live in the state of nature.

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Esrac
11/21/19 9:35:47 PM
#40:


ssjevot posted...
Esrac posted...
I don't see how the meat is acquired matters. We have a lot of people to feed, of course we'd want to breed animals in a way that produces as much meat as we can.

We've been domesticating and breeding animals for their meat for more than 10,000 years, so of course our ancestors were breeding meat for what they could get out of the animals. On top of that, we've been hunting animals for more than 2 million years. Eating meat is entirely natural for our species.

You can argue that we may be eating too much meat, in the same way we're eating too much sugar, but that seems to be a different point than what you seemed to be getting at. Unless I misread you.


You can't make an argument from evolution and nature if the best you can do is we started domesticating animals 10,000 years ago (which is extremely recent in human existence, and certainly not paleolithic which started over 3 million years ago). The nature argument is bad for a pile of reasons, but my entire point is nothing about our current society is like the state of nature we used to live in (which is good since most of us would be long dead based on life expectancy from those times). You can't say we evolved to eat this, and then eat stuff that is nothing like what we evolved to eat.

And like the person above pointed out, raising meat is horribly inefficient so you can't just compromise your own argument to say we have to modify meat from nature to feed more people. These paleo people just come off as completely unfounded because we don't live in the state of nature, we didn't live very long when we did, and the food they are eating is nothing like what people ate when they did live in the state of nature.


We've been eating meat for millions of years. We've evolved with meat eating because it was beneficial for our survival and development. The meat coming from animals we domesticated probably isn't meaningfully different from meat from animals we hunted. It's a different method to get the same kind of resource and one of the reasons life expectancy has gone up.

And of course I can say we evolved to be able to eat meat and then also eat things that we didn't evolve to eat. Saying its natural for us to eat meat doesn't mean we only have to eat meat. We can just as well eat other foods we manufacture, as long as they provide the nutritional and caloric content we need. That doesn't hurt the argument that eating meat is natural.

And producing meat requiring more resources doesn't detract from then statement that we breed livestock to produce more meat to feed more people. We accept the additional cost while trying to get as much as we can from the livestock, because the sheer quantity of eating any food isn't the only factor we consider.

I never said that we should only consider how many people we feed, I said we breed animals to produce more meat because we have a lot of people to feed. But we also want to be able to feed them more than just vegetables and fruits.
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Duncanwii
11/21/19 9:41:08 PM
#41:


I eat meat and I wont apologize for it.

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ssjevot
11/21/19 9:42:34 PM
#42:


Esrac posted...
probably isn't meaningfully different from meat from animals we hunted


I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously if you believe that. Different species of animals all have a large number of differences in the substances that make up their muscle tissue. That's just a ridiculous belief. There is a reason nutritionists talk about different species of fish, different kinds of poultry, the health risks of red meat, etc. It's not because all meat is the same.

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Esrac
11/21/19 10:06:40 PM
#43:


ssjevot posted...
Esrac posted...
probably isn't meaningfully different from meat from animals we hunted


I'm sorry but I can't take you seriously if you believe that. Different species of animals all have a large number of differences in the substances that make up their muscle tissue. That's just a ridiculous belief. There is a reason nutritionists talk about different species of fish, different kinds of poultry, the health risks of red meat, etc. It's not because all meat is the same.


It's good to eat several types of meat, but you're going to need to show your math to support the notion that wild game meat is substantially more nutritious that it provides outstanding benefits that farm raised meats don't, because I can't find much to support that notion. The most you can probably claim is that Wild meats are leaner, but that isn't a substantial concern. You can still get plenty of adequate caloric and nutritional value from farm raised animals.

We can farm fish, beef, and multiple types of poultry for that variety.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 10:12:51 PM
#44:


I never claimed that. I don't believe in the paleo diet. I'm completely arguing the opposite. That there is no merit to claiming our "natural" diet is better for us. There is no evidence historically or scientifically to support that. Paleo people are weird conspiracy theorists. It's not like it's hard to find the recommendations of nutritionists or studies on diets and life expectancy. The problem is paleo people ignore all the evidence suggesting their diet is actually not healthy and just resort to saying it's natural and therefore good, but it's not even natural. They have neither evidence nor is their claim valid to begin with.

Edit: Also nutrition studies don't suggest eating red meat is good for you, so not sure where you got this it's good to eat multiple types of meat from. They recommend fish and poultry, and not eating much meat to begin with.

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Esrac
11/21/19 10:19:16 PM
#45:


ssjevot posted...
I never claimed that. I don't believe in the paleo diet. I'm completely arguing the opposite. That there is no merit to claiming our "natural" diet is better for us. There is no evidence historically or scientifically to support that. Paleo people are weird conspiracy theorists. It's not like it's hard to find the recommendations of nutritionists or studies on diets and life expectancy. The problem is paleo people ignore all the evidence suggesting their diet is actually not healthy and just resort to saying it's natural and therefore good, but it's not even natural. They have neither evidence nor is their claim valid to begin with.

Edit: Also nutrition studies don't suggest eating red meat is good for you, so not sure where you got this it's good to eat multiple types of meat from. They recommend fish and poultry, and not eating much meat to begin with.


I don't know why you keep bringing up Paleo people when talking to me. I haven't done anything to support the paleo diet yet.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 10:42:04 PM
#46:


The guy in the original video from the post, the one I am criticizing in this topic, is a paleo advocate.

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Esrac
11/21/19 10:49:56 PM
#47:


ssjevot posted...
The guy in the original video from the post, the one I am criticizing in this topic, is a paleo advocate.


That doesn't explain why you bring it up when addressing me. I'm not a paleo diet advocate.

I'm for eating meat, so I'm opposed to veganism, but I'm not jumping onboard the paleo train.
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Son Of Spam
11/21/19 11:07:21 PM
#48:


spudger posted...
Funkydog posted...
Veganism is (largely) about not wanting to support the awful conditions animals are kept in as a result of the massive amount needed.

i get the ethical issue. animal farming is quite disgusting. there are ethical ways to eat meat, however.


If we switched to ethical animal farming we'd basically kill the entire animal farming industry (as a vegetarian and maybe a vegan down the line, I'm in favor of this). To farm animals free-ranged and ethically would be far more expensive and far worse for the environment (assuming we tried to keep the amount of production that factory farming currently produces). As a result animal products would go way up in price and demand for good quality plant-based alternatives will go way up.
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Deadpool_18
11/21/19 11:08:17 PM
#49:


Joe Rogan looks like a sweaty ballsack these days.
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ssjevot
11/21/19 11:31:08 PM
#50:


Esrac posted...
That doesn't explain why you bring it up when addressing me. I'm not a paleo diet advocate.

I'm for eating meat, so I'm opposed to veganism, but I'm not jumping onboard the paleo train.


You were using the same busted logic Paleo people use of it's "natural". Natural doesn't mean good, and the diet they advocate isn't true to nature.

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