Poll of the Day > So apparently someone being transabled is a thing...

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies

Some of his study participants do draw parallels to the experience many transgender people express of not feeling like theyre in the right body. Baldwin says this disorder is starting to be thought of as a neurological problem with the bodys mapping, rather than a mental illness.

I can understand someone being transgendered but their is no way your bodies mapping is gonna say "yeah we shouldn't have made that arm". How is this even a thing or being looked at as anything other then mental illness. WTAF.
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Becoming disabled by choice is just insanity. This is Cour Des Miracles kind of stuff.
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because it's become a complicated issue and one that can't really be addressed without making one side or the other extremely angry

so at some point you just give up and say "it is what it is" because we can't do anything about it without making the situation worse
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NightMareBunny posted...

because it's become a complicated issue and one that can't really be addressed without making one side or the other extremely angry

so at some point you just give up and say "it is what it is" because we can't do anything about it without making the situation worse

That's like saying if someone thinks their trans duck, you let them go live in a lake with ducks. This isn't a political issue on someone being transgender, which has it's own issues but I can accept that. But believing you shouldn't have eyes, hearing, a limb, fingers, etc is just bullocks. I can never support this or accept that people should just mutilate themselves because we dont know what's wrong with them.
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isn't it called Munchausen Syndrome or something?
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Lokarin posted...

isn't it called Munchausen Syndrome or something?

Totally different animal.
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This has always been a thing sadly. I remember there was an episode of nip/tuck about it over a decade ago.
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Mead posted...

This has always been a thing sadly. I remember there was an episode of nip/tuck about it over a decade ago.

The only thing I really remember about something similar was some guy on like dr.phil or something who cut off his legs because he figured he didn't need them. That was years ago I think though.
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it's just hard to explain in general
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yutterh posted...

That's like saying if someone thinks their trans duck, you let them go live in a lake with ducks. This isn't a political issue on someone being transgender, which has it's own issues but I can accept that. But believing you shouldn't have eyes, hearing, a limb, fingers, etc is just bullocks. I can never support this or accept that people should just mutilate themselves because we dont know what's wrong with them.

You realize you're saying the exact same thing that people said about transgender people prior to it becoming popular to support them right? Not even saying you're in the wrong or anything, just pointing that out.

If in twenty years people are coming out as "transracial" or "transage" or whatever else and it's seen as normal and people who thought it was ridiculous back in the dark ages of 2019 are seen as bigots it won't surprise me a bit.
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NightMareBunny posted...

because it's become a complicated issue and one that can't really be addressed without making one side or the other extremely angry

so at some point you just give up and say "it is what it is" because we can't do anything about it without making the situation worse

Or we can tell all those groups of virtue signaling idiots that whatever reality they crated inside their head is wrong and that society, at large, will not change reality because they have mental problems.
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Its a real mental disorder

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3256029/Woman-dreamed-blind-DRAIN-CLEANER-poured-eyes-fulfil-lifelong-wish-says-happier-ever.html
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Lokarin posted...

isn't it called Munchausen Syndrome or something?

edit: But Realtalk - sometimes I wish I had legitimate brain damage to explain why I don't work properly... just so there's SOMETHING I can fix or focus on

Munchhausen is pretending to be sick in order to get attention.
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Friend of mine had a wife who hated her right leg, especially below the knee. She was stressed out all the time over it, even making her physically ill. Eventually convinced a doctor to amputate her perfectly healthy leg from the knee down. She became a very happy person for years after the surgery instead of depressed and suicidal, until she died from cancer

I don't get it and never will.

It's severe mental illness that needs to be dealt with before it's too late.
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It's 2019. There are no mental illnesses any more, you bigots.
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Perceiving a gulf between your body and your identity, I wouldn't call that a mental disability/problem or whatever. Sometimes weird shit happens. The mental disability/problem thing comes from when those who feel that way decide to do something other than simply accepting themselves for the way they are and making the best of it, and decide to hate and/or hurt themselves instead.
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Shadowbird_RH posted...

Perceiving a gulf between your body and your identity, I wouldn't call that a mental disability/problem or whatever. Sometimes weird shit happens. The mental disability/problem thing comes from when those who feel that way decide to do something other than simply accepting themselves for the way they are and making the best of it, and decide to hate and/or hurt themselves instead.

I knew a girl in high school who believed she and her brother were reincarnated from dragons. No, this isn't a fucking joke.

It's a mental disorder, stop pandering to people with issues.
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People like you are a problem.

That problem is the inability to discern the difference between weird and harmful.

As I said, sometimes weird shit happens.

Weird shit that isn't harmful isn't a problem. If it does becomes harmful, then something should be done,
but if it doesn't become harmful, then they should be accepted for who they are.

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

In which case, that means YOU = HARMFUL = PROBLEM.
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Shadowbird_RH posted...

People like you are a problem.

What an ironic statement.
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Shadowbird_RH posted...

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

So by your logic should we accept pedophiles and their thought processes with open arms as long as they aren't literally diddling kids?
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Shadowbird_RH posted...

People like you are a problem.

That problem is the inability to discern the difference between weird and harmful.

As I said, sometimes weird shit happens.

Weird shit that isn't harmful isn't a problem. If it does becomes harmful, then something should be done,
but if it doesn't become harmful, then they should be accepted for who they are.

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

In which case, that means YOU = HARMFUL = PROBLEM.

But it is harmful to their bodies. There is being weird and doing weird shit which is fine. But then their is this. I'm not saying they should feel bad about wanting to cut their leg off or only want two fingers, but I refuse to help or pander to them.

Dreaming_King posted...

yutterh posted...

That's like saying if someone thinks their trans duck, you let them go live in a lake with ducks. This isn't a political issue on someone being transgender, which has it's own issues but I can accept that. But believing you shouldn't have eyes, hearing, a limb, fingers, etc is just bullocks. I can never support this or accept that people should just mutilate themselves because we dont know what's wrong with them.

You realize you're saying the exact same thing that people said about transgender people prior to it becoming popular to support them right? Not even saying you're in the wrong or anything, just pointing that out.

If in twenty years people are coming out as "transracial" or "transage" or whatever else and it's seen as normal and people who thought it was ridiculous back in the dark ages of 2019 are seen as bigots it won't surprise me a bit.

Yea I understand that. I was against transgender but I'm accepting of it now. I dont agree with it but I can understand it. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. Multiple genders, translate, transracial etc is just going to far.
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yutterh posted...

I can never support this or accept that people should just mutilate themselves because we dont know what's wrong with them.

People should be allowed to mutilate their bodies to align with their inner self image if it makes them happy you bigot!

Arms, legs, genitals, chop it all off and become a head in a jar. Why? Because telling people no is EVIL! And if you dont engage them in all their fantasies you are evil too!!!

(I hate that I have to add the disclaimer this is satire)
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Shadowbird_RH posted...

People like you are a problem.

That problem is the inability to discern the difference between weird and harmful.

As I said, sometimes weird shit happens.

Weird shit that isn't harmful isn't a problem. If it does becomes harmful, then something should be done,
but if it doesn't become harmful, then they should be accepted for who they are.

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

In which case, that means YOU = HARMFUL = PROBLEM.

Nope. You just demonstrated the REAL problem of society and that's people encouraging others who have fucked up delusions to be allowed to believe whatever they want.

YOU are the kind of person who is the cause of tragedies happening to such individuals because they were encouraged to believe in stupid shit that doesn't exist and doesn't make sense. YOU are a fucking problem because you believe that UNTIL something harmful happens, then those people should be encourage to believe and do whatever the fuck they want. I believe that those people need a reality check BEFORE something harmful happens.
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careful, mods are extremely against any opinion that doesn't fully agree with people thinking they are something else.
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Krazy_Kirby posted...

careful, mods are extremely against any opinion that doesn't fully agree with people thinking they are something else.

God forbid we call an orange, an orange.
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The_tall_midget posted...

It's a mental disorder, stop pandering to people with issues.

How are we defining "pandering" here? Because in the context of gender dysphoria, "pandering" gets used rather often to mean "acknowledging and respecting the pursuit of the most effective treatment plan for the disorder," which is not a usage that is at all supported by the premise of "it's a mental disorder." If you're going to use the term, you should ensure you have a contextually-appropriate definition for it instead of just clinging to your favourite emotionally-evocative buzzword.

I'll happily agree that people shouldn't be encouraged to chops bits of themselves off without consulting appropriate medical professionals, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be respectful of their desires to. If you ridicule them into committing suicide by calling them stupid, you haven't exactly prevented self-harm. There are far better ways to deal with mental disorders than that.

Dreaming_King posted...

Shadowbird_RH posted...

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

So by your logic should we accept pedophiles and their thought processes with open arms as long as they aren't literally diddling kids?

Yes, actually. Non-practicing pedophiles are harmless. Why, then, should they be objected to? Certainly don't hire one to teach daycare or drive a school bus, obviously, but there's no need to demonize pedophiles who haven't actually done anything. That just discourages them from admitting to their desires and seeking help overcoming them, increasing the chance that they act on them and actually commit some sort of harm.
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yutterh posted...

Baldwin says this disorder is starting to be thought of as a neurological problem with the bodys mapping, rather than a mental illness.

You say tomato...
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Is 0.01% of the worlds population wrong?

No.

Society is wrong.
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Aculo posted...

yutterh posted...

Baldwin says this disorder is starting to be thought of as a neurological problem with the bodys mapping, rather than a mental illness.

You say tomato...

For most people, the difference is pretty academic, but it does dictate how treatment ought to be approached, which makes it a relevant distinction for medical professionals.
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adjl posted...

That just discourages them from admitting to their desires and seeking help overcoming them

Now wait a second, if pedophilia is harmless then why should they "admit their desires" and seek help like it's something wrong or shameful? Why shouldn't they proudly accept who they are and ignore the judgmental bigots who speak against them and refuse to accept them?
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Shame we really have no clue how the brain actually works, and even less clue how to fix it.

Maybe it's just me, but I find it weird that we can't program our own brains.

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its called vanity, doctors just have easier ways to fiddle with it now
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Dreaming_King posted...

adjl posted...

That just discourages them from admitting to their desires and seeking help overcoming them

Now wait a second, if pedophilia is harmless then why should they "admit their desires" and seek help like it's something wrong or shameful? Why shouldn't they proudly accept who they are and ignore the judgmental bigots who speak against them and refuse to accept them?

If you go to the doctor because you have pneumonia, does that mean that pneumonia is wrong or shameful? Of course not. Just that it has the potential to cause harm if left untreated. Seeking treatment for pedophilia doesn't make it shameful, it's just trying to mitigate the potential harm it might cause.
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I remember I used to follow some body mod websites in the early 2000s where some users would cut off fingers or other body parts. Almost all of them mentioned how they felt more compleate without it.
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Yellow posted...

Maybe it's just me, but I find it weird that we can't program our own brains.

You do. It's called your belief system and perspective of life.

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SunWuKung420 posted...

You do. It's called your belief system and perspective of life.

What I believe is that I "know" I am on this planet as a freak incident and my entire natural goal is to reproduce one way or another. That's not even my goal though, that's more my tendency.

"Oh no, my leg is making me suicidal"

Now what

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adjl posted...

The_tall_midget posted...

It's a mental disorder, stop pandering to people with issues.

How are we defining "pandering" here? Because in the context of gender dysphoria, "pandering" gets used rather often to mean "acknowledging and respecting the pursuit of the most effective treatment plan for the disorder," which is not a usage that is at all supported by the premise of "it's a mental disorder." If you're going to use the term, you should ensure you have a contextually-appropriate definition for it instead of just clinging to your favourite emotionally-evocative buzzword.

I'll happily agree that people shouldn't be encouraged to chops bits of themselves off without consulting appropriate medical professionals, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be respectful of their desires to. If you ridicule them into committing suicide by calling them stupid, you haven't exactly prevented self-harm. There are far better ways to deal with mental disorders than that.

Dreaming_King posted...

Shadowbird_RH posted...

Attempting to oppose/oppress people for their harmless weirdness... IS harmful.

So by your logic should we accept pedophiles and their thought processes with open arms as long as they aren't literally diddling kids?

Yes, actually. Non-practicing pedophiles are harmless. Why, then, should they be objected to? Certainly don't hire one to teach daycare or drive a school bus, obviously, but there's no need to demonize pedophiles who haven't actually done anything. That just discourages them from admitting to their desires and seeking help overcoming them, increasing the chance that they act on them and actually commit some sort of harm.

Not pandering to them is different then demonizing them. They aren't stupid but they do have some kind of mental issues either from their neurological make up or some kind of mental disorder. The treatment shouldn't be to just go with it. Like I have chronic depression and suicidal thoughts. The treatment shouldnt be let me kill my self. These people need to come to terms with their disorder and accept that they are in the wrong. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The first step in recovery or control is to accept it.
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Old news. At this point people can be anything else they want.

Careful, TC, once science says this is an actual thing thats grounds for mod or worse.
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zebatov posted...

Old news. At this point people can be anything else they want.

Careful, TC, once science says this is an actual thing thats grounds for mod or worse.

Actually psychologists aren't scientists but people act like they are.
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bulbinking posted...

zebatov posted...

Old news. At this point people can be anything else they want.

Careful, TC, once science says this is an actual thing thats grounds for mod or worse.

Actually psychologists aren't scientists but people act like they are.

In a way. Definitely not all of them but the once who actually do the research of the human mind and find therapies and ways to deal with mental disorder, I could consider them that. The human psyche is a mystery unto itself and not something science can actually predict.
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yutterh posted...

I can understand someone being transgendered

I don't, and I think you explain pretty well why I don't understand it.

yutterh posted...

their is no way your bodies mapping is gonna say "yeah we shouldn't have made that arm". How is this even a thing

I see this as the same as saying "oops, grew the wrong genitals". You can't be in the wrong body. You can't be accustomed to not having a feature your body has always had. You have never experienced not having it. So what basis do they have for comparison to say that something shouldn't be there?

I see the two conditions as being the same, but I don't think it legitimized transablism. I think the comparison demonstrates why transgenderism should not be legitimized.
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bulbinking posted...

zebatov posted...

Old news. At this point people can be anything else they want.

Careful, TC, once science says this is an actual thing thats grounds for mod or worse.

Actually psychologists aren't scientists but people act like they are.

Did you happen to notice the quotation marks?
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

yutterh posted...

I can understand someone being transgendered

I don't, and I think you explain pretty well why I don't understand it.

yutterh posted...

their is no way your bodies mapping is gonna say "yeah we shouldn't have made that arm". How is this even a thing

I see this as the same as saying "oops, grew the wrong genitals". You can't be in the wrong body. You can't be accustomed to not having a feature your body has always had. You have never experienced not having it. So what basis do they have for comparison to say that something shouldn't be there?

I see the two conditions as being the same, but I don't think it legitimized transablism. I think the comparison demonstrates why transgenderism should not be legitimized.

Well transgenderism is a little different. Especially considering the organs are basically the same. A penis is just a reversed vagina and from my understanding all males start as females until the body grows the proper organ. People are also born as hermaphrodites, two penises, two vaginas, extra toes, fingers, heart outside rib cage etc.

But I do agree that not everyone has this, sometimes it can be a mental disorder as well. It's just really impossible to tell if it was a genetic screw up or a mental issue.
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Aculo posted...

yutterh posted...

Baldwin says this disorder is starting to be thought of as a neurological problem with the bodys mapping, rather than a mental illness.

You say tomato...

Its actually pronounced tomato
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yutterh posted...

A penis is just a reversed vagina and from my understanding all males start as females until the body grows the proper organ.

Most people don't recall anything from before the age of 3.

yutterh posted...

People are also born as hermaphrodites, two penises, two vaginas, extra toes, fingers, heart outside rib cage etc.

And that would be what they are accustomed to. They never experienced any different. It's only by comparison to other people that they know their condition isn't the norm. Unless there's some disadvantage to that condition (the heart one is concerning) it really shouldn't hinder how they live their lives.
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SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

yutterh posted...

A penis is just a reversed vagina and from my understanding all males start as females until the body grows the proper organ.

Most people don't recall anything from before the age of 3. Their organs are going to settle into whatever configuration they'll stick to well before that.

yutterh posted...

People are also born as hermaphrodites, two penises, two vaginas, extra toes, fingers, heart outside rib cage etc.

And that would be what they are accustomed to. They never experienced any different. It's only by comparison to other people that they know their condition isn't the norm. Unless there's some disadvantage to that condition (the heart one is concerning) it really shouldn't hinder how they live their lives.

Yeah I can see your point.
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yutterh posted...

I can understand someone being transgendered but their is no way your bodies mapping is gonna say "yeah we shouldn't have made that arm". How is this even a thing or being looked at as anything other then mental illness. WTAF.

Replace arm with another appendage and you can see a parallel here.

yutterh posted...

Not pandering to them is different then demonizing them.

As far as laypeople are concerned? Not really. For non-medical people, you either support them (which can and should include encouraging them to seek medical advice instead of taking things into their own hands - support and respect are not mutually exclusive of concern) or you don't, and the latter entails delegitimizing them by telling them that what they think/feel is wrong. Treatment approaches are, naturally, more nuanced than that, but none of us are making those decisions.

yutterh posted...

The treatment shouldn't be to just go with it. Like I have chronic depression and suicidal thoughts. The treatment shouldnt be let me kill my self. These people need to come to terms with their disorder and accept that they are in the wrong. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. The first step in recovery or control is to accept it.

Depression is not gender dysphoria, which is not OCD, which is not ADHD, which is not schizophrenia. There's no blanket approach to treating mental illnesses. What works is what works, and it's not the place of laypeople to decide what works. It's not about patients being right or wrong, it's about making whatever changes are necessary to improve the patient's quality of life and minimize harm. Figuring out how to do that is the job of doctors. The rest of us just advise people who are considering things like this to talk to a doctor before going ahead with anything drastic.

SKARDAVNELNATE posted...

I see this as the same as saying "oops, grew the wrong genitals". You can't be in the wrong body. You can't be accustomed to not having a feature your body has always had. You have never experienced not having it. So what basis do they have for comparison to say that something shouldn't be there?

Mostly that humans are capable of abstract thought. You don't have to experience something directly to believe that it would be better than what you've got. That said, what you're saying is exactly why doctors advising a transgendered patient have that patient live as their target sex for a couple years before performing any actual medical procedures on them. If that doesn't help, then whatever dysphoric feelings the patient was having aren't going to be solved by transitioning and should be approached differently. If it does, then transitioning is the way to go.
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Sometimes I wonder if my body should have gave me tits.
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