Board 8 > Do you side with martin scorcese or the mcu films?

Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3
CedarPointcp
10/13/19 11:02:02 PM
#1:


which? - Results (31 votes)
martin scorcese
45.16% (14 votes)
14
mcu films
54.84% (17 votes)
17
https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/martin-scorsese-doubles-down-on-marvel-movie-critique.html

scorcese has doubled down on his critique of the mcu films
---
"Ah, you most likely know it as Myanmar but it'll always be Burma to me"
... Copied to Clipboard!
BlAcK TuRtLe
10/13/19 11:04:38 PM
#2:


They both suck, who fuckin cares
---
"Like Darth Maul, the bastard child of Michael Flatley and hellboy" - trancer1
lol xstats
... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1
10/13/19 11:19:26 PM
#3:


the viewpoint that MCU films "aren't cinema" and "aren't narrative stories" is just fucking childish, that's not an enlightened opinion of what art is
... Copied to Clipboard!
Seginustemple
10/13/19 11:19:54 PM
#4:


he's just mad they slapped a superhero IP onto Taxi Driver and it made a bunch of money
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nrrr
10/13/19 11:20:26 PM
#5:


I generally agree with what Scorcese is saying, these are big tentpole event films that run on hype and are basically a thrill ride, and it would suck if that is the only kind of movie anyone made or paid attention to. I don't think that is a concern, though.

---
I'm baby
... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1
10/13/19 11:21:14 PM
#6:


Nrrr posted...
I generally agree with what Scorcese is saying, these are big tentpole event films that run on hype and are basically a thrill ride, and it would suck if that is the only kind of movie anyone made or paid attention to. I don't think that is a concern, though.

yeah but that ain't what he said
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela
10/13/19 11:46:57 PM
#7:


He's exactly right. But that's not a knock on the MCU filmmakers, it's a critique of how those movies are consumed.

---
"A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25
"Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso
... Copied to Clipboard!
#8
Post #8 was unavailable or deleted.
Lopen
10/14/19 1:43:53 AM
#9:


They are "event films" sounds like an intelligent criticism until you realize any film series that builds off itself and is successful will become a series of "event films" so really all you're saying with that take is either that you don't want any films to build off themselves or you don't want any films to be successful, both of which are asinine statements.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
BetrayedTangy
10/14/19 1:49:36 AM
#10:


I feel like all these directors hating on the MCU have never actually sat down and watched some of the films. Sure not all of them are exactly unique or grand slams. But there are very well made films with a lot to digest and enjoy.

I think most of the criticism is just a result of them not getting it and hating that it's so popular in addition to that
---
My Quest to beat the Final Fantasies: I II IV V VI VII VIII IX X XII XIII XIV XV
... Copied to Clipboard!
CoolCly
10/14/19 1:50:33 AM
#11:


I think the kinds of movies he's talking about do exist, but the MCU isn't that, and it's pathetic that he and people like him can't tell the difference.
---
The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG
... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor
10/14/19 2:30:58 AM
#12:


I kind of agree, even though it sounds harsh.

I've enjoyed a lot of marvel movies.

However, I can't remember the last time one posed an actual question, showed me something new, or gave me an insight about life. They just nail the tropes super solidly and then show you the door.

This sort of blockbuster movie has always existed. They just usually weren't hailed as the best film has to offer

They just make soooooooo much money it's difficult to justify making something from any other formula
---
You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured.
... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor
10/14/19 2:32:48 AM
#13:


There are good moments to be found in the MCU, though. They're not all bad
---
You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1
10/14/19 2:37:33 AM
#14:


I think many of the MCU films, even in areas like having smartly written themes and portrayal of three-dimensional characters, show a lot of craft, much more than the average summer blockbuster, which is why this opinion is frustrating - it's just pointlessly and crudely dismissive without displaying any sort of deeper insight

I just really don't think there's anything enlightened about dismissing the things they do out of hand because you think they're popcorn flicks

I've seen some far more "grown-up" movies that really weren't, comparatively
... Copied to Clipboard!
BetrayedTangy
10/14/19 2:41:15 AM
#15:


Eh I'd say Civil War gave us a pretty good look into Cap as a character as well as his relationship with Tony.

Infinity War gave us a new look at Thor as someone who has lost absolutely everything and coping with that through anger and later depression in Endgame.

There's definitely stuff there which further proves to me that people are only complaining because these movies are so successful
---
My Quest to beat the Final Fantasies: I II IV V VI VII VIII IX X XII XIII XIV XV
... Copied to Clipboard!
Waluigi1
10/14/19 5:09:57 AM
#16:


The ultimate "how dare you like what I don't"
---
PSN, and GT: Waluigi1
Switch FC: SW-6848-3841-9099
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela
10/14/19 8:47:45 AM
#17:


BetrayedTangy posted...
I feel like all these directors hating on the MCU have never actually sat down and watched some of the films. Sure not all of them are exactly unique or grand slams. But there are very well made films with a lot to digest and enjoy.
Nah, with the exception of guardians, they're all catered toward stupid people. Which is why they're successful.

---
"A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25
"Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso
... Copied to Clipboard!
CedarPointcp
10/14/19 8:48:40 AM
#18:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
BetrayedTangy posted...
I feel like all these directors hating on the MCU have never actually sat down and watched some of the films. Sure not all of them are exactly unique or grand slams. But there are very well made films with a lot to digest and enjoy.
Nah, with the exception of guardians, they're all catered toward stupid people. Which is why they're successful.

how do you figure they're catered towards stupid people? Well my 8 year old nephew loves the movies, so you might have something there.
---
"Ah, you most likely know it as Myanmar but it'll always be Burma to me"
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela
10/14/19 8:50:58 AM
#19:


banananor posted...
However, I can't remember the last time one posed an actual question, showed me something new, or gave me an insight about life. They just nail the tropes super solidly and then show you the door.
Yup, exactly. They're supremely good at making dumb people feel like they're smarter than they actually are. That's why fans aren't embarrassed to "nerd out" to them publicly.

---
"A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25
"Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso
... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket
10/14/19 9:37:10 AM
#20:


Seginustemple posted...
he's just mad they slapped a superhero IP onto Taxi Driver and it made a bunch of money


That wast even Marvel though, let alone the MCU.

---
It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket
10/14/19 9:41:06 AM
#21:


banananor posted...
I kind of agree, even though it sounds harsh.

I've enjoyed a lot of marvel movies.

However, I can't remember the last time one posed an actual question, showed me something new, or gave me an insight about life. They just nail the tropes super solidly and then show you the door.

This sort of blockbuster movie has always existed. They just usually weren't hailed as the best film has to offer

They just make soooooooo much money it's difficult to justify making something from any other formula


Movies are goddamn entertainment first, anything else second.

Hollywood has been in a financial decline for years, they dont get to pick and choose what makes money.

The alternative is to abolish the studio system completely and make everything Independent films and/or direct to streaming.


---
It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
... Copied to Clipboard!
XIII_rocks
10/14/19 9:41:29 AM
#22:


Paratroopa1 posted...
the viewpoint that MCU films "aren't cinema" and "aren't narrative stories" is just fucking childish, that's not an enlightened opinion of what art is


More or less yeah

I totally get some of what he's saying, but "that's not x" when it absolutely is by any objective measure is such a lazy criticism and I've got no time for it. It's like saying "rap isn't music" or something. I mean, it is, so make your point better. Lay out the complexities of it.

---
Not to be confused with XIII_Stones.
... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP
10/14/19 9:46:50 AM
#23:


Frankly, I think people that insist movies must "give an insight about life" or else they aren't "cinema" or "narrative stories" are way worse, since that's basically saying "You must force some supposed deeper meaning in, even ham-fisted, or else your movie isn't actually cinema lolol"

Screw that noise. Movies are entertainment.
---
#SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nelson_Mandela
10/14/19 9:50:46 AM
#24:


HashtagSEP posted...
Movies are entertainment.
He said they aren't cinema. In Scorsese lexicon, that has a very different definition than "movies."

---
"A more mature answer than I expected."~ Jakyl25
"Sephy's point is right."~ Inviso
... Copied to Clipboard!
Nrrr
10/14/19 9:52:46 AM
#25:


CedarPointcp posted...
how do you figure they're catered towards stupid people? Well my 8 year old nephew loves the movies, so you might have something there.


they are action movies about people punching problems away based on properties aimed at young people.

fans hate the first movies for being introductions and focusing on the actual character instead of focusing on the action and new villains. the characters save earth from aliens but don't ever think about facing the problems people on earth deal with regularly - hence why things like the jessica jones tv series are popular, its more human. people think shit like Logan or Joker are revolutionary - those are just okay movies with comic book characters as the focus. If you like movies - you can find similar concepts done far better.

---
I'm baby
... Copied to Clipboard!
swordz9
10/14/19 10:03:36 AM
#26:


This dude was literally in Shark Tale. I dont think he should be throwing mud at the MCU not being cinema. I havent seen most of the movies hes made, but the ones I have seen I didnt really care for much. The MCU might not be intellectual movie experiences, but theyre almost all really fun movies.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Omniscientless
10/14/19 10:24:26 AM
#27:


Trying to discredit Scorsece as a filmmaker is the absolute opposite way you want to win this argument. He only voiced a random support character in Shark Tale too, he had no creative input whatsoever.
---
Surskit
Hi! I like shorts! They're comfy and easy to wear!
... Copied to Clipboard!
MysticBrohan
10/14/19 11:09:01 AM
#28:


i agree but people who like the films shouldn't care
---
Esto es el fin, Grande Padre
... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroicSpiderPig
10/14/19 11:22:55 AM
#29:


The issue with the MCU films, if there is one, isn't that they are bad, or not of a good quality. It's that their quality level, as it is, should be considered the baseline for a Hollywood studio picture, not its peak.

And that's not to mention all the other franchise films of a lesser quality that have replaced more adult dramas as the top movies at the box office, which is more of a problem than Marvel. Sure people love to "turn their brains off" whatever that means, but if so, that's a recent development. There was a time when movies like Kramer Vs. Kramer, Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Saving Private Ryan, Dances with Wolves, Terms of Endearment, Titanic were massive hits that were in the top 3 or so of their year. No similar type of movie would come close to their box office numbers today. I know people will quibble with the quality of some of the films I mentioned, but regardless of how successful they might have been at it, all of those films were attempting to appeal to something deeper than "Oh hey, I recognize the characters and settings up on the screen," and audiences of the time clearly reacted to them. But those days are gone, and in our current climate of social fragmentation, content glut, and siloing, it will be hard to get back.

---
Congrats on Advokaiser for winning the 2018 Guru Contest!
Yesmar
... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv
10/14/19 11:29:09 AM
#30:


banananor posted...
This sort of blockbuster movie has always existed. They just usually weren't hailed as the best film has to offer


It's also strange to have a continuity to your 20+ blockbusters

Like Star Wars fits the bill here but it was what, three films over 5 years?

With Marvel and the 'answers to marvel' there arent that many movies with top level budgets that aren't in this mold.

Even the modern great directors are sort of picking their spots.

It does sort of feel like a waste that the Russo brothers or Gunn or the other emerging generational talents are making these movies instead of, you know, movies worthy of their talent.
---
Board 8's Voice of Reason
https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
10/14/19 11:55:06 AM
#31:


HeroicSpiderPig posted...
Kramer Vs. Kramer, Rain Man, Forrest Gump, Saving Private Ryan, Dances with Wolves, Terms of Endearment, Titanic were massive hits that were in the top 3 or so of their year. No similar type of movie would come close to their box office numbers today. I know people will quibble with the quality of some of the films I mentioned, but regardless of how successful they might have been at it, all of those films were attempting to appeal to something deeper than "Oh hey, I recognize the characters and settings up on the screen,"


I don't really agree most of those films tried anything more deep or whatever than the better Marvel movies do.

Unless you're saying they've got more to them entirely because they don't utilize pre-established characters, which is one way to interpret what you said
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
AxemRedRanger
10/14/19 12:08:20 PM
#32:


The Chinese box office is worth too much and Hollywood movies trying for deeper themes, realistic issues, or more controversial content both may run afoul of Chinese censors and may also simply not be to Chinese tastes due to cultural differences. Even if a more down-to-earth drama could make the same amount of money in the west as big spectacles like the MCU, it's much easier to sell superhero and scifi movies with cool special effects and action to China and rake in an additional 33% in revenues or whatever it's up to at this point.

---
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]
[NO Advokaiser NO PEACE]
... Copied to Clipboard!
Metal_DK
10/14/19 12:32:23 PM
#33:


I thought guardians 2 did a better job discussing fucked up family dynamics better than anything in recent memory. At least better than anything recent that had a fair bit of exposure and hype

---
Casual Revolution 2007 - 2016
... Copied to Clipboard!
TheRock1525
10/14/19 12:49:09 PM
#34:


Metal_DK posted...
I thought guardians 2 did a better job discussing fucked up family dynamics better than anything in recent memory. At least better than anything recent that had a fair bit of exposure and hype


I, too, understand having my father be a giant intergalactic planet brain.
---
TheRock ~ I had a name, my father called me Blues.
... Copied to Clipboard!
paperwarior
10/14/19 1:04:07 PM
#35:


I disagree on principle with gatekeeping what is art. That said, something as commercial as the MCU, I can understand why it's near that line.
---
"God Hand is the ultimate expression of the joy of humanity, specifically the punching part of the joy of humanity."-Shigeru Miyamoto
... Copied to Clipboard!
MariaTaylor
10/14/19 1:09:14 PM
#36:


a lot of them are mediocre and some of them are outright bad, but that doesn't make them not art.

there is such a thing as bad art. I should know, I draw it all the time.
---
I saw the truth, I saw endless night skies; Understanding is pain.
https://imgtc.ws/i/OObNl5s.jpg
... Copied to Clipboard!
Big Bob
10/14/19 2:53:49 PM
#37:


I've never met anyone who dissed superhero movies who was actually able to back up their claim with logic. I ask "what was the last one you saw?" and they say they don't remember. I ask what they don't like about them and aren't able to give an answer.

People love to be a dick for literally no reason.
---
Come watch me on Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/gameryogi
... Copied to Clipboard!
GavsEvans123
10/14/19 3:24:32 PM
#38:


I think they're not complaining about Marvel specifically, just that the most popular films, which in this case happen to be Marvel, are hogging all the attention. If something besides Marvel was dominating the box office for years, it would be trendy to bash that instead.
... Copied to Clipboard!
NFUN
10/14/19 3:28:06 PM
#39:


Big Bob posted...
I've never met anyone who dissed superhero movies who was actually able to back up their claim with logic. I ask "what was the last one you saw?" and they say they don't remember. I ask what they don't like about them and aren't able to give an answer.

People love to be a dick for literally no reason.

yes, these totally real people are totally assholes
---
Video Game Music Contest 14 winner: Terraria Calamity - Scourge of the Universe
... Copied to Clipboard!
Seginustemple
10/14/19 4:14:24 PM
#40:


redrocket posted...
Seginustemple posted...
he's just mad they slapped a superhero IP onto Taxi Driver and it made a bunch of money


That wast even Marvel though, let alone the MCU.


I'm kidding but would Marty know the difference?

I agree with him though. The MCU is fun but I can't hold it to the same standard as more purely creative works.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Xiahou Shake
10/14/19 4:52:59 PM
#41:


MCU is fine. They're very well made movies that actually manage to have good theming and stand up to a critical eye. That said, they're 100% popcorn movies, refined as they are.

Martin's point appears to be that they're not high art which, well, no shit lol. The MCU movies may dominate pop culture, but they're never going to have a truly profound message. But I don't think all movies should be expected (or try) to do that - sometimes just being fun is all you need, and all that is warranted.
---
Let the voice of love take you higher,
With this gathering power, go beyond even time!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Ngamer64
10/14/19 5:41:54 PM
#42:


He's right in that they're more entertainment tent poles than artistic films, but I think he goes a little too far when he dismisses them as theme park rides.

That term should be reserved for things where you turn off your brain and enjoy the spectacle. Like San Andreas, 2012, Godzilla, King Kong, the new Jurassic movies.

The MCU walks the line between pure popcorn and high art, and I think we should celebrate it for that, not bash it.


---
Advo bested even The Show hosts in 2018, yowza!
board8.wikia.com | thengamer.com/xstats
... Copied to Clipboard!
Paratroopa1
10/14/19 5:54:25 PM
#43:


I think to imply that the MCU really lacks artistic merit is wildly reductionist, I wouldn't say any of them are truly the most profound works of our time by any stretch but there are definitely little moments and ideas throughout many of the films that I would say are worth viewing with a critical eye. A movie doesn't need to be the HIGHEST art to still have something meaningful to say and putting everything in either "true art" or "just entertainment" is kind of selling everyone short

Also, I think people have a strong tendency to underestimate the amount of craft that actually goes into making something fun; that, in itself, is art of its own. Most of the films that people describe as 'popcorn flicks' I don't really find all that entertaining - anything that is 'turn your brain off' material ends up not being that fun. I think what makes the MCU cool is that it's particularly well-made fun, and there is a difference! Most movies don't really achieve the heights of entertainment that these movies reach. It's reductionist and maybe even borderline offensive to dismiss both the vision of a director and performances of actors who know how to actually make something fun instead of just boring, as well as the extremely high levels of craftsmanship that thousands of people put into making these things work.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv
10/14/19 6:05:40 PM
#44:


I think there is something a little stupid about like "oh yeah Captain America 2 was a really good piece of cinema"

Because while it is without the context of some questionably good movies its hard to make sense of and it's like....not capable of joining the ranks of the truly classic films.

We won't ever look back on it the way we do say Shawshank. And that's a shame in some ways.
---
Board 8's Voice of Reason
https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy
... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroicSpiderPig
10/14/19 6:12:25 PM
#45:


Eddv posted...
I think there is something a little stupid about like "oh yeah Captain America 2 was a really good piece of cinema"

Because while it is without the context of some questionably good movies its hard to make sense of and it's like....not capable of joining the ranks of the truly classic films.

We won't ever look back on it the way we do say Shawshank. And that's a shame in some ways.


Adding to this, it's interesting to note that the two comic book based movies in the past decade to really enter the cultural zeitgeist and discussion in a serious way are Black Panther and Joker, which are two of the least dependent on a cinematic universe.

---
Congrats on Advokaiser for winning the 2018 Guru Contest!
Yesmar
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
10/14/19 6:19:44 PM
#46:


Eddv posted...
Because while it is without the context of some questionably good movies its hard to make sense of and it's like....not capable of joining the ranks of the truly classic films.


I disagree with this on Winter Soldier, and frankly, most of the MCU movies. I will give you this for certain of the bigger crossover spectacle movies like the Infinity Wars and to a much lesser extent Thor Ragnarok and Civil War, but a lot of the MCU movies stand fine without any of the lead-in movies and they only really serve to enhance them. Like you can absolutely watch, follow, and enjoy the likes of The Avengers or Winter Soldier without any of the preceding films. There are certain plot details or characters you won't immediately know, but the movies do a good enough job of introducing these things at a base level that the pre-existing knowledge is not necessary.

Unless you're saying highly regarded sequels like the Empire Strikes Back or Terminator 2 are "hard to make sense of" without having seen the preceding films, because I would disagree with you on those as well.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
HeroDelTiempo17
10/14/19 6:36:30 PM
#47:


HeroicSpiderPig posted...


Adding to this, it's interesting to note that the two comic book based movies in the past decade to really enter the cultural zeitgeist and discussion in a serious way are Black Panther and Joker, which are two of the least dependent on a cinematic universe.


I mean...if you go one year outside a decade you get The Dark Knight, which is a middle movie in a trilogy. And even then, I think many MCU movies have grounds to be "classics" in a pop culture sense, along the lines of Star Wars or LotR.

I guess I just have trouble seeing the distinction of "cinema" as anything but a quibble with genre, tone, and intended (mass) audience.

---
DPOblivion was far more determined than me.
... Copied to Clipboard!
MetalmindStats
10/14/19 6:53:41 PM
#48:


I agree with everything Para's said here. If anything, I would argue the MCU's characterization, themes, etc. are generally done better than its action and special effects.
---
"I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people who do."
You won the CBX Guru Contest, Advokaiser! Bully for you!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Eddv
10/14/19 6:57:45 PM
#49:


Lopen posted...
Unless you're saying highly regarded sequels like the Empire Strikes Back or Terminator 2 are "hard to make sense of" without having seen the preceding films, because I would disagree with you on those as well.


Well sure, but at least in these cases Terminator 2 and Star Wars do something to help make their sequels what they are.

Captain America 1 has almost nothing at all to do with Winter Soldier
---
Board 8's Voice of Reason
https://imgur.com/AWY4xHy
... Copied to Clipboard!
StealThisSheen
10/14/19 7:00:59 PM
#50:


Eddv posted...
Lopen posted...
Unless you're saying highly regarded sequels like the Empire Strikes Back or Terminator 2 are "hard to make sense of" without having seen the preceding films, because I would disagree with you on those as well.


Well sure, but at least in these cases Terminator 2 and Star Wars do something to help make their sequels what they are.

Captain America 1 has almost nothing at all to do with Winter Soldier


I'm confused

At first it seemed like you were arguing Winter Soldier requires too much context from preceding films

Now it seems like you're arguing the preceding films give it too little context?
---
Seplito Nash, Smelling Like the Vault since 1996
Step FOUR! Get Paid!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1, 2, 3