Board 8 > Blizzard bans and withholds prize money from hearthstone player for HK support

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Lightning Strikes
10/08/19 4:10:09 PM
#151:


Y'know I was looking at WoW Classic with a lot of interest. This has changed my mind. This is a disgusting move, people should not support Blizzard for it, and there does need to be regulation to prevent it.
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 4:12:08 PM
#153:


Calling it outrage culture when a government is terrible to its people is also really shitty.

This is proof that "neutral" and "measured" are not always the best response.
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skullbone
10/08/19 4:13:11 PM
#154:


Not often that I agree with Corrik but Blizz made rules and the guy violated the rules. If an American player got on camera and said "Make America Great Again!" or told people to go out and vote for Bernie they would be banned too under the same rules.

The Hong Kong situation is awful but you don't get to pick and choose which players you ban for breaking your rules based on the political situation.

I don't know if it's worth boycotting Blizzard over the rule itself either considering it's basically "hey, don't be political". That seems pretty standard for most companies in 2019
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Corrik7
10/08/19 4:13:12 PM
#155:


Tom Bombadil posted...
and consumers are allowed to boycott them for exercising that right in a way they find objectionable
You can boycott anything for anything. It's just ridiculous to not play the games you want and enjoy because a company did what was in their rules that is incorporated to protect their image in regards to all of their fans.

I guess that is subjective so go where you want with it, but I mean a lifelong World of Warcraft fan refusing to play WoW anymore because a company didn't want controversial stuff posted on their own stream in a tournament they ran seems ridiculous to me.

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Xiahou Shake
10/08/19 4:15:31 PM
#156:


I'm not even sure what regulation for this kind of thing would look like, honestly. You'd think American companies with (ostensibly) American values would know better than to so easily fall in the pocket of the most evil currently existing country, but I guess capitalism is a hell of a drug.

Honestly we'd probably already be in a world war against China if people didn't love their money so much. But they do, so we're tailoring our media to them and have stuff like this happening. I have no idea what it would take to change things at this point.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 4:15:32 PM
#157:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Calling it outrage culture when a government is terrible to its people is also really shitty.

This is proof that "neutral" and "measured" are not always the best response.
Nobody is arguing for China here, Chris. We are arguing over the outrage leveled to Blizzard who didn't want in the middle of it.

If you are upset about what China is doing, then let's be honest, that is the real culprit here.

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#158
Post #158 was unavailable or deleted.
LordoftheMorons
10/08/19 4:17:06 PM
#159:


Support Hong Kong is only controversial because an authoritarian government finds pro-democracy messages threatening.

Would censoring these political messages be fair game?

1. Objecting to Japanese internment in WW2

2. Objecting to slavery in the pre-Civil War South

3. Objecting to the Holocaust in Nazi Germany

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KingButz
10/08/19 4:17:26 PM
#160:


Blizzard is obviously taking China's side. Don't be an idiot
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 4:17:39 PM
#161:


China is enabled to do what they do in part because companies care for money more than humsn rights.

Which they are legally allowed to do. Which is why i want Sanders as president and corporate money out of politics and i want consequences for Blizzard for their choice so that the moral choice is good business for them too.
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Lopen
10/08/19 4:19:18 PM
#162:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
Calling it outrage culture when a government is terrible to its people is also really shitty.


This is a reaction to video game company did to a player of its game due to a statement about a government, not the government itself.

Reacting like Blizzard is the scum of the earth is absolutely the type of stuff that feeds the "outrage culture lol" types. I mean I actually disagree with what they did due to the magnitude and because the casters deserved literally nothing, but at the same time they should have done something to the dude because that's just not the venue for this kinda stuff and the company shouldn't be put in that situation by randos on the stream no matter how terrible what's going on is.
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redrocket
10/08/19 4:20:02 PM
#163:


Lopen posted...
Honestly if you want the "outrage culture lol" thing to go away reeling it in a bit is good so I approve of Corrik's message here.

You can be for or against what Blizzard did without it being about THINK OF DA HUMAN LIVEZ ;_; ;_; ;_;


really


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KokoroAkechi
10/08/19 4:22:16 PM
#164:


On like the actual Ban and not related to like China or anything

The grandmaster's rules are actually extremely strict from what I was told and like every player has certainly read all of them multiple times because of how easy it is to get certain infractions. So, I think the player in question 100% knew that what he was doing was going to be against the rules and that there would probably be repercussions. Although, I don't think he expected the prize money to be withheld. I can agree with like a ban for a year (maybe 6 months or something), but the prize money is a pretty big issue with me.

Now, the other thing is too, that this rule is like up to Blizzard's interpretation and it states this in the rules, and Blizzard interpreted as being offensive or purposely to bring the company into a bad light in the eyes of onlookers (in this case Chinese investors/owners). So, even if it was technically against the rules, it doesn't mean that Blizzard didn't even have an out they put in those rules to get around this.
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 4:22:35 PM
#165:


Lopen posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
Calling it outrage culture when a government is terrible to its people is also really shitty.


This is a reaction to video game company did to a player of its game due to a statement about a government, not the government itself.

Reacting like Blizzard is the scum of the earth is absolutely the type of stuff that feeds the "outrage culture lol" types. I mean I actually disagree with what they did due to the magnitude and because the casters deserved literally nothing, but at the same time they should have done something to the dude because that's just not the venue for this kinda stuff and the company shouldn't be put in that situation by randos on the stream no matter how terrible what's going on is.


And the casters? Did they have Hong Kong stuff too?

Also no surprise from me, Lopen, I am clearly attacking the system at large not just Blizzard and seek reform at the highest societal levels. I may be insane but i am for sure not a part of outrage culture.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 4:24:22 PM
#166:


Lopen posted...
This is a reaction to video game company did to a player of its game due to a statement about a government, not the government itself.

Reacting like Blizzard is the scum of the earth is absolutely the type of stuff that feeds the "outrage culture lol" types. I mean I actually disagree with what they did due to the magnitude and because the casters deserved literally nothing, but at the same time they should have done something to the dude because that's just not the venue for this kinda stuff and the company shouldn't be put in that situation by randos on the stream no matter how terrible what's going on is.
It's like trying to beat up the guy fucking your wife and your 3 friends who didn't tell you your wife was cheating on you, while telling your wife you are upset with her and shouldn't have done it.

I mean, assert the blame where it actually belongs.

Blizzard doesn't want involved in it. You are freaking out on Blizzard because they didn't want involved and enforced their rules which were there to not have to get involved in situations of this sort.

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pyresword
10/08/19 4:24:42 PM
#167:


skullbone posted...
If an American player got on camera and said "Make America Great Again!" or told people to go out and vote for Bernie they would be banned too under the same rules.

For the record I do not believe this. I believe some action would have taken but I don't think that action would have been a year-long suspension, immediate revocation of prize funds, and termination of all employees involved in the incident.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 4:26:25 PM
#168:


pyresword posted...
For the record I do not believe this. I believe some action would have taken but I don't think that action would have been a year-long suspension, immediate revocation of prize funds, and termination of all employees involved in the incident.
I guarantee some of you arguing here that he shouldn't have been banned would be arguing someone who got on stream with a MAGA hat on would have been arguing he should have been banned. I mean, how many of you have argued wearing that hat should allow you to be punched, thrown out of restaurants, and refused service at bars already.

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Lopen
10/08/19 4:28:27 PM
#169:


redrocket posted...
really


Yes really. It's very dumb that anyone who isn't saying blizzard should be burned at the stake is being treated as morally inferior here. Hell on the morality front many of these people probably do or have done worse things in their day to day lives than "not act appalled by Blizzard over reacting with their punishment to a guy who went on a tangent on their stream." Heck they have done it in my estimation, just looking at crap I read on the board.

You have the right to stop supporting Blizzard because of their business practices. You making the tremendous sacrifice of not spending $10 on WoW or not playing Hearthstone anymore doesn't make you some sort of saint either.

Like you wanna say people are wrong for saying Blizzard was okay to do this, that's fine, but cut the condescension about it
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KokoroAkechi
10/08/19 4:28:34 PM
#170:


I dont agree with Outrage culture because it often attacks individuals without proof or just does things to pile on or manipulate the narrative in a whole lot of cases. Often times they just want to insert their own politics or personal beliefs etc. But in this case, it's pretty clear what Blizzard is doing. This is not even outrage culture, this is just a genuine response to what people see right in front of them.
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 4:30:35 PM
#171:


Corrik7 posted...
pyresword posted...
For the record I do not believe this. I believe some action would have taken but I don't think that action would have been a year-long suspension, immediate revocation of prize funds, and termination of all employees involved in the incident.
I guarantee some of you arguing here that he shouldn't have been banned would be arguing someone who got on stream with a MAGA hat on would have been arguing he should have been banned. I mean, how many of you have argued wearing that hat should allow you to be punched, thrown out of restaurants, and refused service at bars already.


I have never. Take your strawman elsewhere.
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pyresword
10/08/19 4:31:32 PM
#172:


Please don't include me in any of that Corrik. I realize you're arguing against a collective, but the fact that you quoted me makes it look like you're singling me out when I would not take the stance you're claiming nor do I have a history of arguing anything of the sort.

Edit: Added a "not" which was unintentionally left out originally
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Metal_DK
10/08/19 4:35:44 PM
#173:


Social media man....social media. The echo revolution of 2015. I wonder when people will realize that the internet being everywhere is a fucking disaster

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red13n
10/08/19 4:39:05 PM
#174:


Corrik7 posted...
I guarantee some of you arguing here that he shouldn't have been banned would be arguing someone who got on stream with a MAGA hat on would have been arguing he should have been banned. I mean, how many of you have argued wearing that hat should allow you to be punched, thrown out of restaurants, and refused service at bars already.


Wearing a MAGA hat - fine.
Wearing a MAGA hat and saying something that incites racist hatemongering like "Build the wall" - nope.
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MoogleKupo141
10/08/19 4:44:53 PM
#175:


Corrik7 posted...
It's like trying to beat up the guy fucking your wife and your 3 friends who didn't tell you your wife was cheating on you, while telling your wife you are upset with her and shouldn't have done it.

I mean, assert the blame where it actually belongs.

Blizzard doesn't want involved in it. You are freaking out on Blizzard because they didn't want involved and enforced their rules which were there to not have to get involved in situations of this sort.


they didnt want to get involved, but, like it or not, this guy has made them involved

and they are doing badly in their involvement

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MariaTaylor
10/08/19 4:45:55 PM
#176:


Lopen posted...

Yes really. It's very dumb that anyone who isn't saying blizzard should be burned at the stake is being treated as morally inferior here. Hell on the morality front many of these people probably do or have done worse things in their day to day lives than "not act appalled by Blizzard over reacting with their punishment to a guy who went on a tangent on their stream." Heck they have done it in my estimation, just looking at crap I read on the board.

You have the right to stop supporting Blizzard because of their business practices. You making the tremendous sacrifice of not spending $10 on WoW or not playing Hearthstone anymore doesn't make you some sort of saint either.

Like you wanna say people are wrong for saying Blizzard was okay to do this, that's fine, but cut the condescension about it


well I don't care about morality at all, but I literally don't get how you could read handsomedude's post and be like "yeah, I'm okay with blizzard censoring and punishing people for speaking out against this." anyone who thinks like that is legitimately dog shit level scum in my eyes.

blizzard did not take a neutral stance here. they chose to selectively enforce a very vague rule that allows them to punish any player for any reason, and they used it to censor and punish someone for speaking out against authoritarian violations of basic civil liberties. I know there are a lot of soft, squishy cowards on this board who take their freedom for granted but I am not one of them.

you are either ignorant, or just straight up trash. that's all there is to it.

once again, this has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with my personal opinion of you
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Jakyl25
10/08/19 4:48:32 PM
#177:


Corrik7 posted...
Nobody is arguing for China here, Chris. We are arguing over the outrage leveled to Blizzard who didn't want in the middle of it.


But when they were thrust into the middle of it, they immediately took the side of the Chinese government over the Hong Kong protestors
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Jakyl25
10/08/19 4:52:43 PM
#178:


Like do you honestly think the punishment would have been the same if he said I support China!
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5tarscream
10/08/19 4:54:43 PM
#179:


I was surprised earlier reading that the NBA have actually made a stand for freedom of speech. All Blizzard had to do was say the opinions dont reflect that of the business if thats their stance. Even if they have an anti politics rule which I highly doubt then they could ban the player but withholding the money he won legitimately because youre scared that his opinions might make people angry is a fucking joke. Fuck Blizzard the cowards.
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LiquidOshawott
10/08/19 4:57:35 PM
#180:


If youve paid attention to anything Blizzard has done in the last year, this isnt too surprising. Theyve basically built themselves around their relationship with China

The really depressing part is I dont even know if the backlash will change anything.
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Emeraldegg
10/08/19 4:58:15 PM
#181:


5tarscream posted...
I was surprised earlier reading that the NBA have actually made a stand for freedom of speech. All Blizzard had to do was say the opinions dont reflect that of the business if thats their stance. Even if they have an anti politics rule which I highly doubt then they could ban the player but withholding the money he won legitimately because youre scared that his opinions might make people angry is a fucking joke. Fuck Blizzard the cowards.

I think that the nba not folding makes blizzard look even worse, however if what Blizzard wanted was to get out of this unscathed in the eyes of china, just putting out that statement wouldn't have gotten the job done, because the NBA did just that and then china took action against the NBA in retaliation. In fact I wouldn't be surprised, and maybe it's already been brought up, if people in Blizzard saw the NBA get retaliated against and said "no way we can't have that."
In any case, china made it clear they won't settle for anything less than bowing down before them.
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5tarscream
10/08/19 5:00:55 PM
#182:


Id like to agree but I have to wait until I return in a few weeks. Dont want unexpected visa issues
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azuarc
10/08/19 5:01:19 PM
#183:


Man, Doom, someone can't disagree with your right and noble position from high up on that pedestal of yours without getting attacked, huh. No wonder I rarely read the threads on B8 that aren't from the VGM folks.

Human rights matter, but this isn't the hill to die on for them. Blizzard isn't responsible, and even calling them a proxy by acquiescence is a lame argument at best. As I said earlier, if you want to be mad at them, be mad at every company that has sales in China or employs Chinese workers.
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 5:07:14 PM
#184:


I literally am. Did you miss the part where i want a non corrupt person as President, corporations to not have political say in my country, and for business to be guided by more regulations in regards to dealings with foreign governments whose values so oppose those of anyone who cares about freedom.

I am not high up, you arw just very low to the point where i really do not care what you think of me for calling out your view point. Go back to listening to the Chrono Cross soundtrack if you hate it so much.
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Xiahou Shake
10/08/19 5:08:35 PM
#185:


I think there's a decisive difference between buying/selling goods in China or employing their workers and participating in their authoritarian censorship in exchange for continued business.
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Lopen
10/08/19 5:09:18 PM
#186:


MariaTaylor posted...
well I don't care about morality at all, but I literally don't get how you could read handsomedude's post and be like "yeah, I'm okay with blizzard censoring and punishing people for speaking out against this." anyone who thinks like that is legitimately dog shit level scum in my eyes.

blizzard did not take a neutral stance here. they chose to selectively enforce a very vague rule that allows them to punish any player for any reason, and they used it to censor and punish someone for speaking out against authoritarian violations of basic civil liberties. I know there are a lot of soft, squishy cowards on this board who take their freedom for granted but I am not one of them.

you are either ignorant, or just straight up trash. that's all there is to it.

once again, this has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with my personal opinion of you


Freedom of speech doesn't apply here, really. It's not as if Blizzard is against the guy saying it and actively trying to censor him through whatever neutral vehicle he wants to use.

But when you use their show as a platform for your agenda they should be able to stop you no matter what the message is.

Like if some guest were to come into your stream while you're playing some Dark Souls game you hate for the 48th time and preach the virtues of I don't know the KKK you would be justified in removing the content from your channel and never inviting the guy on your stream again.

To be clear I disagree with what they did, as it was clearly excessive and caught the casters who deserved nothing as well. But they should have done something about it. A ban from a tournament or two followed by a warning to not do stuff like this in the future would have been more reasonable.

But to be clear I also don't think you putting on a show where you blow your reaction out of proportion here in order to virtue signal makes you a better person than me by any measure. Or anyone, for that matter. It's just not something that really should register. You want to claim some sort of objective value as a person over me do something important with your life. Help people with problems in some way, donate to some charities, I don't know, literally anything that actually matters-- posting some random shit on a message board where you express distaste of Blizzard means less than nothing and shouldn't be impressing anyone.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 5:10:07 PM
#187:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
I have never. Take your strawman elsewhere.
Okay. What you are definitely doing though is...

"These tariffs on Chinese goods are dumb because I have to pay more for my Chinese made goods I want until it is over with"

and.

"Omg I am not giving Blizzard any more of my money because they didn't want involved in a dispute regarding China's terrible practices"

Like, why not boycott Chinese made goods itself and support the tariffs with your wallet instead of boycotting a middle entity.

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azuarc
10/08/19 5:11:34 PM
#188:


The air up there's getting awfully thin. Maybe you might wanna strap on a mask and get some oxygen?
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 5:12:31 PM
#189:


azuarc posted...
The air up there's getting awfully thin. Maybe you might wanna strap on a mask and get some oxygen?


You are not nearly as clever as you think you are. Stick to video game music.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 5:14:01 PM
#190:


pyresword posted...
Please don't include me in any of that Corrik. I realize you're arguing against a collective, but the fact that you quoted me makes it look like you're singling me out when I would not take the stance you're claiming nor do I have a history of arguing anything of the sort.

Edit: Added a "not" which was unintentionally left out originally
I didn't mean to make it look that way. Sorry.

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UItimaterializer
10/08/19 5:16:06 PM
#192:


KokoroAkechi posted...
On like the actual Ban and not related to like China or anything

The grandmaster's rules are actually extremely strict from what I was told and like every player has certainly read all of them multiple times because of how easy it is to get certain infractions. So, I think the player in question 100% knew that what he was doing was going to be against the rules and that there would probably be repercussions. Although, I don't think he expected the prize money to be withheld. I can agree with like a ban for a year (maybe 6 months or something), but the prize money is a pretty big issue with me.

Now, the other thing is too, that this rule is like up to Blizzard's interpretation and it states this in the rules, and Blizzard interpreted as being offensive or purposely to bring the company into a bad light in the eyes of onlookers (in this case Chinese investors/owners). So, even if it was technically against the rules, it doesn't mean that Blizzard didn't even have an out they put in those rules to get around this.

The rule is moronic. "Can't offend a portion of the public"? A portion of the public is offended by literally anything.
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foolm0r0n
10/08/19 5:16:23 PM
#193:


azuarc posted...
This guy is no Colin Kaepernick, and Blizzard is trying to remove this problem before he somehow becomes one.

All Kaepernick did was kneel. He did it for months. Until the NBA made him a celebrity.

What did Blizzard do differently?

Either this is intentional to hype up the Hong Kong disputes, or Blizzard is the dumbest company ever.
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pyresword
10/08/19 5:16:46 PM
#194:


Corrik7 posted...
pyresword posted...
Please don't include me in any of that Corrik. I realize you're arguing against a collective, but the fact that you quoted me makes it look like you're singling me out when I would not take the stance you're claiming nor do I have a history of arguing anything of the sort.

Edit: Added a "not" which was unintentionally left out originally
I didn't mean to make it look that way. Sorry.

I over-reacted anyways to be honest.

I do want to make my views clear but I wasn't as upset by the way you framed that as my post probably made it out to be.
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azuarc
10/08/19 5:17:46 PM
#195:


DoomTheGyarados posted...
azuarc posted...
The air up there's getting awfully thin. Maybe you might wanna strap on a mask and get some oxygen?


You are not nearly as clever as you think you are. Stick to video game music.

And you're not winning anyone to your side with your rhetoric. Everything you claim to stand for, I happen to fully agree with. Yet I want nothing to do with you or your arguments here because you're attacking everyone, exaggerating all your points, and preaching to us the whole time.

So rather than telling me to leave, perhaps you're the one who needs to step back.
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ChaosTonyV4
10/08/19 5:19:45 PM
#196:


Corrik7 posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
I have never. Take your strawman elsewhere.
Okay. What you are definitely doing though is...

"These tariffs on Chinese goods are dumb because I have to pay more for my Chinese made goods I want until it is over with"

and.

"Omg I am not giving Blizzard any more of my money because they didn't want involved in a dispute regarding China's terrible practices"

Like, why not boycott Chinese made goods itself and support the tariffs with your wallet instead of boycotting a middle entity.


Not getting involved would be disavowing the guy by saying the words of competitors from their games don't represent the company in any way.

Taking punitive measures, and ones as severe as what they did are explicitly getting involved, and taking the side of the Chinese government.

Taking puniti
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GranzonEx
10/08/19 5:21:03 PM
#197:


Lopen posted...
But when you use their show as a platform for your agenda they should be able to stop you no matter what the message is.

basic human rights is not an agenda

are you for real right now
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DoomTheGyarados
10/08/19 5:21:11 PM
#198:


If you have to be won to my side, I don't want you on my side. Some things aren't about winning or losing, or they shouldn't be. If you weren't raised right already to know that a company's profits don't excuse them enforcing censorship of a horrible human rights problem constantly growing before our very eyes I am OK to be opposed to you. I am not a moderate person, for sure. I have strong opinions and if my time in the political sphere has taught me anything there are some people who can be won over and some people that can't. I am not "attacking everyone", I am making their point of view clear. This makes you uncomfortable. Trust me, we don't agree here and the fact that you think so is a mistake of perspective on your part.

I will not be stepping back an inch, thank you for your concern however.
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foolm0r0n
10/08/19 5:22:25 PM
#199:


DeepsPraw posted...
>
Maybe stop getting all your news from jingoist US sources

https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1004884261051092993

Imagine writing a tweet storm this massive about how the US wasn't putting Japanese in concentration camps, it was just heightening security due to risks of terrorism

And then people actually use what you wrote to try to support their argument
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_foolmo_
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HashtagSEP
10/08/19 5:22:57 PM
#200:


azuarc posted...
DoomTheGyarados posted...
azuarc posted...
The air up there's getting awfully thin. Maybe you might wanna strap on a mask and get some oxygen?


You are not nearly as clever as you think you are. Stick to video game music.

And you're not winning anyone to your side with your rhetoric. Everything you claim to stand for, I happen to fully agree with. Yet I want nothing to do with you or your arguments here because you're attacking everyone, exaggerating all your points, and preaching to us the whole time.

So rather than telling me to leave, perhaps you're the one who needs to step back.


To be fair, you basically belittled everybody, too.
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Corrik7
10/08/19 5:23:02 PM
#201:


ChaosTonyV4 posted...
Not getting involved would be disavowing the guy by saying the words of competitors from their games don't represent the company in any way.

Taking punitive measures, and ones as severe as what they did are explicitly getting involved, and taking the side of the Chinese government.

Taking puniti
It is in their rules. Tencent owns a stake in their company. This isn't exactly a world shocking reaction.

How many of you are refusing to buy anything Chinese made in your boycotts? But, Blizzard is the boycott? It doesn't make the most sense.

It is the example of outrage culture. If you don't like the way the Chinese government is doing things, then take a stance against the government. Blizzard hardly makes decisions regarding laws and such in Hong Kong.

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Xbox Live User Name - Corrik
Currently playing: Division 2
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LordoftheMorons
10/08/19 5:25:16 PM
#202:


You realize that theres a difference between doing business in China and actively censoring for the Chinese, right?

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Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Challenge!
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