Board 8 > Blizzard bans and withholds prize money from hearthstone player for HK support

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://kotaku.com/blizzard-suspends-hearthstone-player-for-hong-kong-supp-1838864961

Fucking pathetic move

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I know outrage culture has desensitized a lot of folks but this is a legit despicable move that they deserve to catch absolute hell for. Literally kids dying in the streets daily and they shut someone down for speaking out about it because they're so completely beholden to China's money.
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They also fired both of the casters for some reason...? What?
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this is really very bad

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nobody realizes that once China takes care of business in their home they will export their brand of totalitarianism globally, transforming all nations into police states

the future sounds so fun

edit: forgot to add that nothing happened on June 4th 1989 at Tiananmen Square, Xi Dada please don't deduct my social credit score
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Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment. Too bad The Academy Awards don't take away the Oscar when someone wins for a movie, and then starts talking about politics, instead of the movie.

I kind of get Blizzard at least. Watch politics channels for politics. Don't let that infect people's entertainment too. People want to have a good time, and allowing anyone to inject political opinions (especially ones where there are many conflicting views on both sides) isn't a good image for the brand.
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TomNook posted...

Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment. Too bad The Academy Awards don't take away the Oscar when someone wins for a movie, and then starts talking about politics, instead of the movie.

People are dying. You aren't edgy, just sick.
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TomNook posted...

People want to have a good time, and allowing anyone to inject political opinions (especially ones where there are many conflicting views on both sides) isn't a good image for the brand.

On one hand, some people are putting their lives on the line to fight for democracy. On the other, China insists that submission to an authoritarian government is actually great. Who can say whos right????

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

TomNook posted...

Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment. Too bad The Academy Awards don't take away the Oscar when someone wins for a movie, and then starts talking about politics, instead of the movie.

People are dying. You aren't edgy, just sick.

I'm not saying anything about what is moral in the political landscape. I have no opinion there. I'm saying that brands standing up for their own brand is fine. A video game company wasn't built toward any political affiliation, and essentially sponsoring one side of it will create animosity and negativity toward the brand from those who disagree with what is being shown. Blizzard isn't saying what is right or wrong; they are saying just don't hijack their image with your own believes. Blizzard allowing someone to do this isn't much different than a baseball stadium letting a streaker stay on the field during a game, and making no effort to remove them. Again, I'm not defending Blizzard because I particularly care about their games, but I'll defend a company for wanting to keep their brand focused on the product.
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You just compared a streaker to someone speaking out against murder. Coorperations do not have more right to profit than a human does their life and freedom
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

You just compared a streaker to someone speaking out against murder. Coorperations do not have more right to profit than a human does their life and freedom

I knew my over-the-top analogy would be the only thing that one of you would quote out of that whole post. How about the rest of my post now that actually has a point?
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This isn't about blizzards image at all. It represents the power China has to censor free speech and dictate business decisions outside their own country.

Blizzard didn't ban him for any moral opinion of their own, they banned him because they were unwilling to lose the chinese dollars they would lose by not complying.
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The second half addresses everything else. Corporations do not have more right to profit than a human does their life and freedom. They did this purely so their profits would not be hurt in the face of, again, freedoms being taken away and murder. That is an immoral act.
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TomNook posted...

I'm not saying anything about what is moral in the political landscape. I have no opinion there. I'm saying that brands standing up for their own brand is fine. A video game company wasn't built toward any political affiliation, and essentially sponsoring one side of it will create animosity and negativity toward the brand from those who disagree with what is being shown. Blizzard isn't saying what is right or wrong; they are saying just don't hijack their image with your own believes. Blizzard allowing someone to do this isn't much different than a baseball stadium letting a streaker stay on the field during a game, and making no effort to remove them. Again, I'm not defending Blizzard because I particularly care about their games, but I'll defend a company for wanting to keep their brand focused on the product.

thank god someone is out here defending the brands


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TomNook posted...

and essentially sponsoring one side of it

wut
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Blizzard isn't "standing up for their brand", they are decisively acting before China possibly ever blames them for this, falling in line with Chinese state censorship.

I really can''t accept this. Cancelled my wow subscription and won't buy the blizzcon virtual ticket like I usual do. Shame, I've really been loving wow classic and was really excited for the announcements this year.

But I can't support this.
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Yeah I havent played WoW for a few years, but I guess I wont be getting the WC3 remaster at least unless they reverse course.

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Make sure you guys actually speak up in opposition to what blizzard did instead of just dropping them without a word

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The second half addresses everything else. Corporations do not have more right to profit than a human does their life and freedom. They did this purely so their profits would not be hurt in the face of, again, freedoms being taken away and murder. That is an immoral act.

Fair enough, but I must ask you, where do you draw the line?

Should people be allowed to do anything they want using a corporation's image if they feel it's for a stand where lives are at risk? This becomes a very tricky line. When there are multiple sides who are at odds, and lives are being lost on both (I'm speaking in general, not about China), how does the company choose who to allow to speak. Do they toss out all form of making money when people are pressuring them to air their political views, and insert messages into their own games to try and tame the landscape? There is clearly a line at some point where they must draw it because they wouldn't be a company much longer if they reluctantly accepted demands from all sides. I see nothing wrong with a video game company wanting nothing to do with people talking about politics. To me, them drawing a line right at the start is fine, because it fits with them preserving their brand.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

I know outrage culture has desensitized a lot of folks but this is a legit despicable move that they deserve to catch absolute hell for. Literally kids dying in the streets daily and they shut someone down for speaking out about it because they're so completely beholden to China's money.

I've never boycotted anything but as of today I've bought my last Blizzard product.

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I can't actually boycott Blizzard since I haven't purchased anything Blizzard since Diablo II so I need others to do it for me

TomNook posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

The second half addresses everything else. Corporations do not have more right to profit than a human does their life and freedom. They did this purely so their profits would not be hurt in the face of, again, freedoms being taken away and murder. That is an immoral act.

Fair enough, but I must ask you, where do you draw the line?

Should people be allowed to do anything they want using a corporation's image if they feel it's for a stand where lives are at risk? This becomes a very tricky line. When there are multiple sides who are at odds, and lives are being lost on both (I'm speaking in general, not about China), how does the company choose who to allow to speak. Do they toss out all form of making money when people are pressuring them to air their political views, and insert messages into their own games to try and tame the landscape? There is clearly a line at some point where they must draw it because they wouldn't be a company much longer if they reluctantly accepted demands from all sides. I see nothing wrong with a video game company wanting nothing to do with people talking about politics. To me, them drawing a line right at the start is fine, because it fits with them preserving their brand.

Hard to say, it is why I like evaluating things in an intelligent way on a case by case basis, because we have no need for our reactions to be uniform for non-uniform situations. I'll let you know when I think they have the right to police their games in such a manner. This is not one of those times!
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It's not fine when an American company decides to impose censorship on behalf of a totalitarian government.

China is throwing their weight all across the world and trying to punish non-Chinese from exercising their constitutional rights of free speech. Time to realize that no one is safe, one day you might say something bad about China online and the next day get fired because your employer has business ties there.

Strangely I'm glad that NBA and Blizzard are causing such a shitstorm in the US right now. I'd love for more negativity surrounding China. Fuck the CCP and Xinnie the Pooh.

Should TomNooks posts be sent to r/LateStageCapitalism
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If corporations ought to have the power to kowtow to Chinese interests like this through censorship, then it's up to us to make it inconvenient for them to do so - we need to make them choose to bow to us instead of them. We have the power to do this

TomNook posted...

Fair enough, but I must ask you, where do you draw the line?

Should people be allowed to do anything they want using a corporation's image if they feel it's for a stand where lives are at risk? This becomes a very tricky line. When there are multiple sides who are at odds, and lives are being lost on both (I'm speaking in general, not about China), how does the company choose who to allow to speak.

they choose who to allow to speak by inviting people to a hearthstone tournament and interviewing them on camera

its not really tricky


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Are Hong Kong protesters dying? I thought only one life was lost so far, and it was a protester attacking a cop who panicked while under attack by the person he shot.

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metaIslug posted...

Yea the title is misleading. This didn't happen because he showed HK support. It happened because he went on a tangent about HK during a Blizzard livestream. There's a difference. Most companies with a foot in the chinese market would do the same thing, not just Blizzard

This does NOT make it better!
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I can guarantee you Blizzard would not have handed out the same punishment if he went on a tangent about his cooking blog or whatever

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This topic, by the way, is why I love Bernie Sanders. So many people, just without even thinking about it, bow to corporate interests and none of you get money from these people, unlike many people in Washington. This is just further proof we need a President who has sworn off taking money from big donors and will stand up for the regular people of this world.
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metaIslug posted...

Yea the title is misleading. This didn't happen because he showed HK support. It happened because he went on a tangent about HK during a Blizzard livestream. There's a difference. Most companies with a foot in the chinese market would do the same thing, not just Blizzard

The two casters, who had nothing to do with it and even knew the repercussions of such on stream(They literally duck behind their chairs) got fired.

Blizzard is literally following Chinese policy of purging anything that remotely paints them in a bad light.
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metaIslug posted...

Most companies with a foot in the chinese market would do the same thing, not just Blizzard

spoilers most companies are also bad

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Its almost like I was right about Blizzard this entire time.

Called it. Told you so. Vindicated. Its also pathetic that they fired the casters, who did literally NOTHING wrong.
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What reason do they have for firing casters? Not stopping the player before he says something against China? Or because the casters are Taiwanese and they need scapegoats?

TomNook posted...

Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment.

I agree with this

Still a very lame move by Blizzard though
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MZero11 posted...

I agree with this

Still a very lame move by Blizzard though

It is a rather lame move, but people have to realize Blizzard is a company also and have to think of their bottom line with decisions. They can't placate a group to alienate another also. The problem is not everyone can be pleased and one side is going to be outraged no matter what they do anymore so which side do you even support anymore.

Politics becoming so ingrained with mainstream is absolutely terrible. This is why people get so upset with it. Sometimes, they just want to watch a football game. They just want to watch the Oscar's. Etc. They don't want to hear political statements any time they try to enjoy something.

In this scenario, a rule existed against this and he chose to do it. He faced the consequences at the expense of making his political statement. Whether you agree with the statement or not, it wasn't the right platform to exercise it. He took advantage of the platform the company gave him and broke the rules set forth beforehand regarding that platform they gave.

If they banned him because he expressed his beliefs on his own stream, that would be completely different.

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handsomeboy2012 posted...

What reason do they have for firing casters? Not stopping the player before he says something against China? Or because the casters are Taiwanese and they need scapegoats?

Because they were there and know the full story i guess? Everything about this is dumb. Fuck blizzard.
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TomNook posted...

Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment. Too bad The Academy Awards don't take away the Oscar when someone wins for a movie, and then starts talking about politics, instead of the movie.

fucking yikes

Corrik7 posted...

In this scenario, a rule existed against this and he chose to do it.

I hadn't heard this. If it's true than fair next imo
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TomNook posted...

Honestly, I hate when people try to add political things into forms of entertainment.

"I support protests, but only if they're off in the corner where I can't see them."

Better not interrupt my video games! (Edit: better not interrupt my football!)

I think waking people up from escapism is the exact purpose of protest. Sure, being woken up can feel inconvenient, I'll give you that
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MZero11 posted...

Corrik7 posted...

In this scenario, a rule existed against this and he chose to do it.

I hadn't heard this. If it's true than fair next imo

Here's the rule:

2019 HEARTHSTONE GRANDMASTERS OFFICIAL COMPETITION RULES v1.4 p.12, Section 6.1 (o)

Engaging in any act that, in Blizzards sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image will result in removal from Grandmasters and reduction of the players prize total to $0 USD, in addition to other remedies which may be provided for under the Handbook and Blizzards Website Terms.
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And obviously corporations don't have an obligation to do anything in this scenario.

It's just a reminder that they aren't people and don't care about people.

They're systems used to generate money

Still not sure why the supreme court considers them people and considers money free speech
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Corrik7 posted...

In this scenario, a rule existed against this and he chose to do it.

The "rule" was

"Engaging in any act that, in Blizzards sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public"

Ok, so they can terminate you and get rid of all your prize money if you "offend anyone". That's the rule that was broken here. This could apply to almost anything; wearing the wrong kind of clothing (there are definitely people who would be offended by a MAGA hat, for example).

And yet, somehow this is the first time they have ever enforced this rule, or at least enforced it so fast. Like...a few weeks ago, a player was caught playing their Hearthstone GrandMasters game and an AutoChess tournament at the same time, so distracted he literally forgot to keep his combo pieces in hand. They just warned him not to do it again. A few years ago, a player was caught straight up cheating, took them a year to even act, people would spam "Roger is a cheater" in chat every time he came on camera. The community was outraged. Nothing.

Also, why are the casters fired here?
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I can guarantee you Blizzard would not have handed out the same punishment if he went on a tangent about his cooking blog or whatever

Using a brand's platform to say something that will upset a lot of people is a bit different than a cooking blog. A better comparison I suppose would be using a string of foul language (depending on the brand's image), racial slurs, stripping naked live, making threats against someone, etc.

banananor posted...

"I support protests, but only if they're off in the corner where I can't see them."

Better not interrupt my video games! (Edit: better not interrupt my football!)

I think waking people up from escapism is the exact purpose of protest

I mean, sure, nothing's stopping people from protesting when they want. They just shouldn't be surprised when they suffer the consequences for doing it in an inappropriate situation. They just need to weigh what outcome is more important to them. For this Hearthstone player, perhaps this was the more important result. I just don't think a lot of people understand how a company is supposed to function if you are expecting them to bend over backwards for everyone who has an opinion they want to make public.
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i can only assume the reason ultimaterializerx has not thrown down his opinion on blizzard since he is in quantum flux currently unable to decide what he enjoys more: hating blizzard or trolling people about hating blizzard
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TomNook posted...

Using a brand's platform to say something that will upset a lot of people is a bit different than a cooking blog. A better comparison I suppose would be using a string of foul language (depending on the brand's image), racial slurs, stripping naked live, making threats against someone, etc.

I fully expect that yes, stripping naked live or using racial slurs would get the same response from Blizzard.

But when you say "upset a lot of people"--we're talking about upsetting a government here. It's not really the same thing. It would be like me saying "Trudeau shouldn't have bought a pipeline". I doubt most Canadian citizens would get angry about that, but the government might.
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greengravy294 posted...

i can only assume the reason ultimaterializerx has not thrown down his opinion on blizzard since he is in quantum flux currently unable to decide what he enjoys more: hating blizzard or trolling people about hating blizzard

Ive already posted in this topic, and while Im happy the board is in agreement here I havent forgotten how multiple people who laughed at my Blizzard opinions in the past are now magically on my side.

Which fine. I dont care. It shows that Blizzard is SO AWFUL as a company that it got Board 8 to actually agree with me on something.

For the people who think this is political, it really isnt. Political implies two or more conflicting viewpoints with legitimate arguments to each. What China is trying to do in Hong Kong right now has no justifiable reason. This is quite literally Tianamen Square (Im sure I spelled that one wrong) 2.0. There are easy to find videos of Chinese soldiers killing protesters.

American politics are awful right now but there arent soldiers shooting civilians. Whats going on there is horrible, and its shameful for any American company to stick up for it. Doing whats right matters more than money.

Also, does anyone honestly think the guy gets banned if he says impeach Trump or expressed support for China? I doubt it. If you want to see the internet mid-explosion, the Hearthstone subreddits top topic is worth a read. Its on r/all, too. Thats how indefensibly bad this is.
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TomNook posted...

I mean, sure, nothing's stopping people from protesting when they want. They just shouldn't be surprised when they suffer the consequences for doing it in an inappropriate situation. They just need to weigh what outcome is more important to them. For this Hearthstone player, perhaps this was the more important result. I just don't think a lot of people understand how a company is supposed to function if you are expecting them to bend over backwards for everyone who has an opinion they want to make public.

I think we're in agreement.

There's a different between being surprised and angry.

Am I surprised that China harvests organs from minorities they throw into camps? At this point, no.

Am I unhappy about it? Yes. When I say I'm unhappy about it, are you going to remind me not to be surprised?

With all that in mind, I think you're responding to people you imagine trusted blizzard to do something else
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