Poll of the Day > Trump Immigration Reforms

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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 5:40:56 AM
#1:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-immigration-green-card-visa-us-poor-residency-a9054551.html?amp

Thoughts?
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Keebs05
08/13/19 8:42:32 AM
#2:


The income standards were already absurdly low. When my wife and I went through the process, we had to show proof that we made more than the national poverty level. I think at the time, it was $11,000 for a household of 2. If you weren't making that, I'm not sure how a person could afford all of the fees that come with applying for immigration to begin with.
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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 8:52:11 AM
#3:


So would you consider this a reasonable approach from Trump?
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Mead
08/13/19 9:17:18 AM
#4:


Another step by his administration that will encourage illegal immigration.

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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 9:48:07 AM
#5:


Mead posted...
Another step by his administration that will encourage illegal immigration.

I thought the concentration camps were inhumane tho.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Mead
08/13/19 9:55:15 AM
#6:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
I thought the concentration camps were inhumane tho.


from an asylum seekers perspective its smarter to cross illegally and avoid being put in one than to go to an official entry point and be put in one and possibly have your kids separated from you and put up for adoption

these discouragement tactics are causing illegal border crossings to skyrocket

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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 10:03:10 AM
#7:


Mead posted...
these discouragement tactics are causing illegal border crossings to skyrocket

You see, the last time I argued this subject, I was told it was at a low?
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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RCtheWSBC
08/13/19 10:03:24 AM
#8:


Today it's legalized immigrants, tomorrow it's native-born citizens
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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 10:06:21 AM
#9:


RCtheWSBC posted...
Today it's legalized immigrants, tomorrow it's native-born citizens

I'd expect anchor baby status will be tackled at some point, yes.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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RCtheWSBC
08/13/19 10:10:06 AM
#10:


That had nothing to do with my comment but okay

The same arguments they outlined for supporting this new policy (self-sufficiency) are the same ones that organizations like ALEC distribute across state legislatures to support cutting access to safety net programs and services as a whole. Today they can feel good about targeted legalized immigrants, but native-born citizens living in poverty who utilize these programs have been and continue to be in the chopping block. They're targeting the poorest Americans, naturalized or otherwise.
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RCtheWSBC
08/13/19 10:15:57 AM
#11:


If the only distinction of someone who legally resides in the US being "worthy" of accessing SNAP, WIC, or Medicaid is their country of origin, then yikes. The income and eligibility requirements for these programs are already limited, as well as their "payouts".

This is a further delineation of the "deserving vs undeserving" poor: https://nonprofitquarterly.org/the-deserving-and-undeserving-poor-a-persistent-frame-with-consequences/
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Mead
08/13/19 10:28:39 AM
#12:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
You see, the last time I argued this subject, I was told it was at a low?


Its almost like his policies are encouraging illegal immigration

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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 10:31:29 AM
#13:


RCtheWSBC posted...
That had nothing to do with my comment but okay

The same arguments they outlined for supporting this new policy (self-sufficiency) are the same ones that organizations like ALEC distribute across state legislatures to support cutting access to safety net programs and services as a whole. Today they can feel good about targeted legalized immigrants, but native-born citizens living in poverty who utilize these programs have been and continue to be in the chopping block. They're targeting the poorest Americans, naturalized or otherwise.

I'd say those are separate things. Those who have a particular distain of illegal immigration and those who distain the poor do have significant crossover, but there's plenty non-convergence on the Venn diagram. There are those who hate immigration because it effects Americans and there are those who hate immigration because it effects Americans and they are American.

RCtheWSBC posted...
If the only distinction of someone who legally resides in the US being "worthy" of accessing SNAP, WIC, or Medicaid is their country of origin, then yikes. The income and eligibility requirements for these programs are already limited, as well as their "payouts".

Considering how Medicaid was deliberately sabotaged to be a political weapon, I'm not surprised it's not helping. I'd say the rest is due to the right generally having an issue with government spending conceptually so the restrictions are attempts at cost-savings.

RCtheWSBC posted...
This is a further delineation of the "deserving vs deserving" poor: https://nonprofitquarterly.org/the-deserving-and-undeserving-poor-a-persistent-frame-with-consequences/

I'd say it's saying "You being poor doesn't make it our responsibility to help you, particularly when any tax burden you create would push more Americans in to a undeserving poor state."
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 10:32:49 AM
#14:


Mead posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
You see, the last time I argued this subject, I was told it was at a low?


Its almost like his policies are encouraging illegal immigration

If it is low, then they have been discouraged. Try to keep up.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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Mead
08/13/19 10:34:37 AM
#15:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
If it is low, then they have been discouraged. Try to keep up.


It isnt low

This is another example of you insisting on arguing about US policies despite being completely ignorant about our country

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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 10:35:34 AM
#16:


Mead posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
If it is low, then they have been discouraged. Try to keep up.


It isnt low

This is another example of you insisting on arguing about US policies despite being completely ignorant about our country

Then you're saying I was right before in a previous argument; neat.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
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RCtheWSBC
08/13/19 10:38:06 AM
#17:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
I'd say those are separate things. Those who have a particular distain of illegal immigration and those who distain the poor do have significant crossover, but there's plenty non-convergence on the Venn diagram.

But this policy is all about legal immigration. People who legally met the requirements to move and work here. Why are they now more undeserving than a native-born citizen? It's a poor attempt to save costs, and it's by design to make significant cuts to social services as a whole, regardless of who is accessing them.

Kyuubi4269 posted...
I'd say it's saying "You being poor doesn't make it our responsibility to help you, particularly when any tax burden you create would push more Americans in to a undeserving poor state."

I don't follow that math, frankly. One household qualifying and signing up for SNAP doesn't prevent another qualifying household from doing the same. That's not how these programs work. In the end, policies like these and model legislation purported by ALEC aim to reduce both households' ability to access these programs in the long run. They chip away at eligibility requirements, add asset tests and drug testing policies, and seek to limit overall access--all while adding more administrative costs and overhead to managing these new requirements.
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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 11:26:30 AM
#18:


RCtheWSBC posted...
But this policy is all about legal immigration. People who legally met the requirements to move and work here.

I did brain fart there, but I do have an answer. Illegal immigrants are less likely to meet these requirements, so can't be "rewarded" by cheating the system.

RCtheWSBC posted...
Why are they now more undeserving than a native-born citizen? It's a poor attempt to save costs, and it's by design to make significant cuts to social services as a whole, regardless of who is accessing them.

The right always try to reduce government involvement and expenditure, it's one of the main differences of left and right politics.

RCtheWSBC posted...
I don't follow that math, frankly. One household qualifying and signing up for SNAP doesn't prevent another qualifying household from doing the same.

It costs more to fund one than two, so the more people who qualify, the greater the tax burden. It could come out of the military, but Republicans are hypocrites this way.

RCtheWSBC posted...
They chip away at eligibility requirements, add asset tests and drug testing policies, and seek to limit overall access--all while adding more administrative costs and overhead to managing these new requirements.

Got to spend money to make money. Also it works neatly as sabotage. If they can say it helps very few people and costs inordinate amounts, they have good grounds to try to remove it entirely in a bipartisan push.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas.
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FrndNhbrHdCEman
08/13/19 12:37:59 PM
#19:


Mead posted...
It isnt low

This is another example of you insisting on arguing about US policies despite being completely ignorant about our country
Whoa whoa. So he's got zero clue what's going on? But telling us.


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miki_sauvester
08/13/19 12:43:09 PM
#20:


My favorite immigration system is the Japanese immigration system. It works, it keeps Japan as one of the lowest crime countries on Earth, and it keeps the reputation of products made in that country high. America is very lenient by those standards.
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Kyuubi4269
08/13/19 12:48:07 PM
#21:


miki_sauvester posted...
My favorite immigration system is the Japanese immigration system. It works, it keeps Japan as one of the lowest crime countries on Earth, and it keeps the reputation of products made in that country high.

The system got updated recently due to the system abusing foreigners coming to work. It's pretty neat now though.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas.
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Aaantlion
08/14/19 12:34:36 AM
#22:


Keebs05 posted...
The income standards were already absurdly low. When my wife and I went through the process, we had to show proof that we made more than the national poverty level. I think at the time, it was $11,000 for a household of 2. If you weren't making that, I'm not sure how a person could afford all of the fees that come with applying for immigration to begin with.


Yeah, it's still a really low bar. More importantly, it also rather reasonably bars illegals who had been receiving various forms of government aid.

Mead posted...
from an asylum seekers perspective its smarter to cross illegally and avoid being put in one than to go to an official entry point and be put in one and possibly have your kids separated from you and put up for adoption


What?

RCtheWSBC posted...
Today it's legalized immigrants, tomorrow it's native-born citizens


Today it's shit posts, tomorrow it's shit topics.

Kyuubi4269 posted...
I'd expect anchor baby status will be tackled at some point, yes.


To be fair, the US and Canada are some of the only nations that recognizes birthright citizenship. Other first-world nations either don't have it or, in other cases, have done away with it. For people whining that we need to be more like Europe, getting rid of birthright citizenship would certainly be one way to do that =p

RCtheWSBC posted...
But this policy is all about legal immigration. People who legally met the requirements to move and work here. Why are they now more undeserving than a native-born citizen? It's a poor attempt to save costs, and it's by design to make significant cuts to social services as a whole, regardless of who is accessing them.


Because requirements can change?

miki_sauvester posted...
My favorite immigration system is the Japanese immigration system. It works, it keeps Japan as one of the lowest crime countries on Earth, and it keeps the reputation of products made in that country high. America is very lenient by those standards.


They're probably going to have to make some serious revisions at some point given problems surrounding their falling birthrate.
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Phantom_Nook
08/14/19 1:33:34 AM
#23:


https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1161423652962918400

Saying the quiet part out loud.
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