Poll of the Day > Why do you care more about a mean tweet than an Antifa terrorist firebombing?

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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:02:15 PM
#1:


Over the weekend, an Antifa member was killed while committing a terrorist attack against an immigration center. I had been waiting to hear something about it on the boards, but... crickets.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tacoma-ice-police-shooting-washington-willem-van-spronsen-antifa-detention-centre-a9004131.html

Granted, it's not surprising for AOC to spend her time trying to get people to focus on Trump's mean tweet -- after all, she ratcheted up anti-ICE sentiment and went so far as to call detention centers concentration camps, a phrase that the Antifa terrorist used in the manifesto he sent to friends before the attack:

https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1150445145034297344/photo/1

Of course, it's also not surprising that the media would ignore this, considering that CNN recently featured the terrorist in a segment.

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1150512511436746752

And keep in mind that, within days of the attack, you have guys like PK Spam demonizing ICE and making WWII villain comparisons:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/3-poll-of-the-day/77867328
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:06:44 PM
#2:


ICE should be abolished.
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GamerGirlzBesty
07/17/19 3:08:23 PM
#3:


ice is only good for keeping drinks cold

it shouldn't be used to round up people and commit inhumane acts

teehee
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Blighboy
07/17/19 3:09:13 PM
#4:


The attacker died.

The tweeter is still locking up children and othering his political opponents.

Why dont you care about any kind of personal accountability?
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CTLM
07/17/19 3:12:50 PM
#5:


Attacker died? They should be praising those that stopped him. That's honestly a shame
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:12:58 PM
#6:


Blighboy posted...
The tweeter is still locking up children


Because these haven't been things for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_incarceration_in_the_United_States

And because the government hasn't been taking kids from parents for even longer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Protective_Services

Blighboy posted...
othering his political opponents.


...lol

kangolcone posted...
ICE should be abolished.


Taily_Po posted...
ICE literally handles illegal immigration enforcement, so in its absence pretty much anybody who can get in the country -- be it on a travel visa, student visa, work visa, or simply sneaking across the border -- gets to stay indefinitely. The end result? Rampant illegal immigration.

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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:19:34 PM
#9:


Taily_Po posted...
Because these haven't been things for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_incarceration_in_the_United_States

And because the government hasn't been taking kids from parents for even longer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Protective_Services

You're comparing apples and oranges, but even so, you're effectively agreeing with the left that America has a mass incarceration problem.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:19:50 PM
#10:


Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:22:18 PM
#11:


kangolcone posted...
Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.

No, you're not going to change the OP's mind. But there are other people lurking who may be swayed. That's why people who say ignorant, false, or illogical things should be challenged.
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-Komaiko54-
07/17/19 3:23:24 PM
#12:


Blighboy posted...
The tweeter is still locking up children and othering his political opponents.


I don't get why people don't get angry at the irresponsible parents who broke the law to come here, knowing the risk.

It has been said time and time again, if any normal american citizen broke the law, guess what happens to their children? they get separated and put somewhere else. It's not rocket science

Blighboy posted...
The attacker died.


But they're certainly gonna be more of him
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WastelandCowboy
07/17/19 3:23:47 PM
#13:


The scope of the issue. Everyone knows Antifa is crazy, but this was one guy and the attacker is dead.

Meanwhile, the leader of one of the largest and powerful countries in the world is advocating for four congresswomen to go back to their original countries, of which is only valid for one. This is on top of a history of racism and hostility towards others that think and believe differently. This is just another sign of a man unfit for office.

IMO, the president of the United States should be impartial and act with maturity and poise. Not a blowhard asshole that tweets his tantrums because people are being mean to him.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:23:59 PM
#14:


Lirishae posted...
kangolcone posted...
Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.

No, you're not going to change the OP's mind. But there are other people lurking who may be swayed. That's why people who say ignorant, false, or illogical things should be challenged.


And many times I do, I just dont have it in me today.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:25:01 PM
#15:


-Komaiko54- posted...
I don't get why people don't get angry at the irresponsible parents who broke the law to come here, knowing the risk.

Staying in a country where you're at risk of being killed or starving to death is irresponsible. Coming here to seek asylum is perfectly legal, and if you were in their shoes you'd do it too.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:26:09 PM
#16:


Lirishae posted...
Taily_Po posted...
Because these haven't been things for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_incarceration_in_the_United_States

And because the government hasn't been taking kids from parents for even longer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Protective_Services

You're comparing apples and oranges, but even so, you're effectively agreeing with the left that America has a mass incarceration problem.


I think everybody agrees that America has a mass incarceration problem, although the answers range from "build more prisons" to "stop sentencing people for so damn long." Like I said in another topic lately, it doesn't make much sense to have a normal criminal serve more than 20 years. Life imprisonments are generally stupid since very few people represent that much of a continued danger.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:27:01 PM
#17:


kangolcone posted...
Lirishae posted...
kangolcone posted...
Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.

No, you're not going to change the OP's mind. But there are other people lurking who may be swayed. That's why people who say ignorant, false, or illogical things should be challenged.


And many times I do, I just dont have it in me today.

Yeah, I know. It's exhausting for sure.
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-Komaiko54-
07/17/19 3:27:47 PM
#18:


Lirishae posted...
Staying in a country where you're at risk of being killed or starving to death is irresponsible.


Crime and poverty are NOT a good excuse to break the law.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:29:47 PM
#19:


kangolcone posted...
Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.


Again:
Taily_Po posted...
ICE literally handles illegal immigration enforcement, so in its absence pretty much anybody who can get in the country -- be it on a travel visa, student visa, work visa, or simply sneaking across the border -- gets to stay indefinitely. The end result? Rampant illegal immigration.


Meaning that you're literally getting rid of enforcement, which is an undeniably stupid thing to want.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:31:59 PM
#20:


Imagine thinking that a child who is in the back seat of a car when their parent gets pulled over for a DUI would also be incarcerated.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:32:39 PM
#21:


Lirishae posted...

Yeah, I know. It's exhausting for sure.


And it's exhausting to explain why we have ICE for the umpteenth time, considering the ignorance surrounding the program where people don't understand that this is it for our immigration enforcement. Or, more likely, they don't understand why we need immigration to be enforced in the first place.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:33:05 PM
#22:


Taily_Po posted...
kangolcone posted...
Honestly nvm, I thought I had the energy for this today, but I dont. Sorry for wasting everybodys time.

ICE should be abolished. Thats my belief. But I long ago realized theres no changing minds here. I only do it when I feel like arguing. Guess I just dont have that in me today.


Again:
Taily_Po posted...
ICE literally handles illegal immigration enforcement, so in its absence pretty much anybody who can get in the country -- be it on a travel visa, student visa, work visa, or simply sneaking across the border -- gets to stay indefinitely. The end result? Rampant illegal immigration.


Meaning that you're literally getting rid of enforcement, which is an undeniably stupid thing to want.


So the United States never deported anybody before 2003?
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:34:20 PM
#23:


WastelandCowboy posted...
The scope of the issue. Everyone knows Antifa is crazy, but this was one guy and the attacker is dead.

Meanwhile, the leader of one of the largest and powerful countries in the world is advocating for four congresswomen to go back to their original countries, of which is only valid for one. This is on top of a history of racism and hostility towards others that think and believe differently. This is just another sign of a man unfit for office.

IMO, the president of the United States should be impartial and act with maturity and poise. Not a blowhard a****** that tweets his tantrums because people are being mean to him.

Too true. The better question here is, why do we care more about Antifa attacking the facility than we do about people being held in conditions that you and I wouldn't keep a dog? If dogs were being starved, denied medical attention in a dirty, cold cage, there would be universal outrage. But when it's Hispanic human beings, 40% of the country suddenly doesn't care.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:35:01 PM
#24:


Ok, I lied. The dullards in this topic have got me going again.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:35:30 PM
#25:


kangolcone posted...
Imagine thinking that a child who is in the back seat of a car when their parent gets pulled over for a DUI would also be incarcerated.


Imagine thinking that a child in the backseat of a car when their parent gets pulled over for a DUI and it's discovered that the parent also committed other crimes wouldn't be taken from the parent... especially considering that when a parent is arrested after a DUI a child is detained separately from the parent anyway.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:35:36 PM
#26:


-Komaiko54- posted...
Lirishae posted...
Staying in a country where you're at risk of being killed or starving to death is irresponsible.


Crime and poverty are NOT a good excuse to break the law.

Says the guy who has never been in a situation where he had to choose between dying or breaking the law.
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WastelandCowboy
07/17/19 3:36:24 PM
#27:


Lirishae posted...
-Komaiko54- posted...
Lirishae posted...
Staying in a country where you're at risk of being killed or starving to death is irresponsible.


Crime and poverty are NOT a good excuse to break the law.

Says the guy who has never been in a situation where he had to choose between dying or breaking the law.

Except that he has broken the law, several times.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:38:05 PM
#28:


Taily_Po posted...
kangolcone posted...
Imagine thinking that a child who is in the back seat of a car when their parent gets pulled over for a DUI would also be incarcerated.


Imagine thinking that a child in the backseat of a car when their parent gets pulled over for a DUI and it's discovered that the parent also committed other crimes wouldn't be taken from the parent... especially considering that when a parent is arrested after a DUI a child is detained separately from the parent anyway.


So every child currently being held has a parent who committed multiple crimes?

Im going to need a source or citation for that one.

And yes, they do hold the children in a place until they can be safely taken care of. However, those places dont have multiple children dying in them and if they did, those places would be shut down.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:38:51 PM
#29:


WastelandCowboy posted...
IMO, the president of the United States should be impartial and act with maturity and poise.


Something that's never happened in the history of the country, but may occur if robots were allowed to run for president.

kangolcone posted...
So the United States never deported anybody before 2003?


...and this is EXACTLY the ignorance I'm talking about. As I've had to explain numerous times in the past -- and yes, it's exhausting -- ICE consolidated multiple government agencies and functions, including deportations. If you got rid of ICE today, you'd get rid of the mechanism for deportations.

I shouldn't have to explain this to a presumably grown adult who went through the education system, but a "new" government agency doesn't necessarily mean all of its functions are new. Agencies are constantly shifted and reconfigured.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:40:55 PM
#30:


To relieve you of just a little of your ignorance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was formed pursuant to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, following the events of September 11, 2001. With the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security, the functions and jurisdictions of several border and revenue enforcement agencies were combined and consolidated into U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Consequently, ICE is the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, and the second largest contributor to the nation's Joint Terrorism Task Force.

The agencies that were either moved entirely or merged in part into ICE included the criminal investigative and intelligence resources of the United States Customs Service, the criminal investigative, detention and deportation resources of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Federal Protective Service. The Federal Protective Service was later transferred from ICE to the National Protection and Programs Directorate effective October 28, 2009. In 2003, Asa Hutchinson moved the Federal Air Marshals Service from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to ICE,[12] but Michael Chertoff moved them back to the TSA in 2005.[13]

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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:42:26 PM
#31:


Before ICE, the focus on deportations were for people committing criminal offenses.

It has been documented that ICE illegally detains people, wrongly deports people, and seeks out non-criminal immigrants.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:43:22 PM
#32:


Taily_Po posted...
And it's exhausting to explain why we have ICE for the umpteenth time, considering the ignorance surrounding the program where people don't understand that this is it for our immigration enforcement. Or, more likely, they don't understand why we need immigration to be enforced in the first place.

It might be somewhat less exhausting if you didn't reply to unrelated posts. But since you decided to target me, you do realize that you can enforce immigration law with discretion and without committing gross human rights violations, right? Or that this country functioned just fine before we had ICE? ICE should be disbanded and replaced.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:44:28 PM
#33:


Taily_Po posted...
To relieve you of just a little of your ignorance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was formed pursuant to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, following the events of September 11, 2001. With the establishment of the Department of Homeland Security, the functions and jurisdictions of several border and revenue enforcement agencies were combined and consolidated into U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Consequently, ICE is the largest investigative arm of the Department of Homeland Security, and the second largest contributor to the nation's Joint Terrorism Task Force.

The agencies that were either moved entirely or merged in part into ICE included the criminal investigative and intelligence resources of the United States Customs Service, the criminal investigative, detention and deportation resources of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the Federal Protective Service. The Federal Protective Service was later transferred from ICE to the National Protection and Programs Directorate effective October 28, 2009. In 2003, Asa Hutchinson moved the Federal Air Marshals Service from the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) to ICE,[12] but Michael Chertoff moved them back to the TSA in 2005.[13]


Right. The creation of ICE and DHS were just heavy handed government interventions to expand the power of the federal government and create a police state. I knew that and its part of the reason it should be abolished.
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DirtBasedSoap
07/17/19 3:45:58 PM
#34:


...why is this discussion about choosing one or the other? Too hard to be rational?
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:46:57 PM
#35:


DirtBasedSoap posted...
...why is this discussion about choosing one or the other? Too hard to be rational?


What do you mean?
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Blighboy
07/17/19 3:48:07 PM
#36:


Taily_Po posted...
Blighboy posted...
The tweeter is still locking up children

Because these haven't been things for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_incarceration_in_the_United_States

And because the government hasn't been taking kids from parents for even longer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Protective_Services

Blighboy posted...
othering his political opponents.

...lol

My post was like three sentences long and you still made no effort to address the point I made.

This attack is, until further activity is noted, the definition of an isolated incident.

Trump's activity is the continuation of a long history of unacceptable and unpunished behaviour, which you have been repeatedly unable to defend.

Why do you make a topic like this when you're only going to make yourself look stupid?
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Lirishae
07/17/19 3:48:10 PM
#37:


Taily_Po posted...
As I've had to explain numerous times in the past -- and yes, it's exhausting --

Oh, you poor, persecuted soul, you. Mean people are making you reply to things! Thing is, you can tell from both my comment and kangolcone's that we already knew this. Maybe you wouldn't have to explain these things if you would read a little more carefully.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:51:17 PM
#38:


Lirishae posted...
Taily_Po posted...
As I've had to explain numerous times in the past -- and yes, it's exhausting --

Oh, you poor, persecuted soul, you. Thing is, you can tell from both my comment and kangolcone's that we already knew this. Maybe you wouldn't have to explain these things if you would read a little more carefully.


Right. He says ICE replaced other agencies and that agencies change all the time. Yet he also concludes that we cannot abolish ICE because there is no way of creating another agency to handle those responsibilities..
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:51:18 PM
#39:


kangolcone posted...
Before ICE, the focus on deportations were for people committing criminal offenses.

It has been documented that ICE illegally detains people, wrongly deports people, and seeks out non-criminal immigrants.


No, even before ICE, you were deported for being here illegally. You didn't have to commit a major crime for it. I'm not sure where you read that propaganda and it's exhausting to debunk that nonsense so it doesn't spread.

Lirishae posted...
Taily_Po posted...
And it's exhausting to explain why we have ICE for the umpteenth time, considering the ignorance surrounding the program where people don't understand that this is it for our immigration enforcement. Or, more likely, they don't understand why we need immigration to be enforced in the first place.

It might be somewhat less exhausting if you didn't reply to unrelated posts. But since you decided to target me, you do realize that you can enforce immigration law with discretion and without committing gross human rights violations, right? Or that this country functioned just fine before we had ICE? ICE should be disbanded and replaced.


Except it didn't function "just fine" prior to ICE and even with ICE we haven't come close to addressing illegal immigration. Ironically enough, countries like Canada handle illegal immigration more effectively but that's because their services are tied together so they can identify illegals more quickly so that they could be removed.... granted, Canada has fewer issues in general because they don't have to deal with as many incursions.

kangolcone posted...
Right. The creation of ICE and DHS were just heavy handed government interventions to expand the power of the federal government and create a police state. I knew that and its part of the reason it should be abolished.


And this is the kind of exhausting silly propaganda that needs to be stamped out. There's nothing unusual about the consolidation of government agencies, since agency functions are routinely consolidated and split. It's just stupid fearmongering.
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Taily_Po
07/17/19 3:53:02 PM
#40:


kangolcone posted...
Right. He says ICE replaced other agencies and that agencies change all the time. Yet he also concludes that we cannot abolish ICE because there is no way of creating another agency to handle those responsibilities..


So you want to abolish ICE then create another agency to do the same thing? What exactly are you trying to resolve? Usually these changes happen to fit an actual purpose, but you just want superficial change for the sake of change.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:53:09 PM
#41:


I agree that ICE could be split or consolidated. I dont understand why you employ such fear monger tactics.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 3:56:15 PM
#42:


Taily_Po posted...
kangolcone posted...
Right. He says ICE replaced other agencies and that agencies change all the time. Yet he also concludes that we cannot abolish ICE because there is no way of creating another agency to handle those responsibilities..


So you want to abolish ICE then create another agency to do the same thing? What exactly are you trying to resolve? Usually these changes happen to fit an actual purpose, but you just want superficial change for the sake of change.


I would hope new oversight and a narrowed scope would help to lessen the abuses of power we are currently seeing.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 4:00:54 PM
#43:


Taily_Po posted...
No, even before ICE, you were deported for being here illegally. You didn't have to commit a major crime for it. I'm not sure where you read that propaganda and it's exhausting to debunk that nonsense so it doesn't spread.

If you were living here illegally but peacefully, you were previously considered a low priority for deportation. Under Trump, that's no longer true. He claims he wants to go after the "bad hombres," but he's actually using ICE's finite resources to go after people willy-nilly, even deporting the spouses of members of our military.

Taily_Po posted...
Except it didn't function "just fine" prior to ICE and even with ICE we haven't come close to addressing illegal immigration.

If you think we are ever going to round up every single illegal and deport them, you are living in a xenophobic fantasy land. Don't ever pretend you're for limited government, because you absolutely are for big government when it suits you.

Taily_Po posted...
And this is the kind of exhausting silly propaganda that needs to be stamped out. There's nothing unusual about the consolidation of government agencies, since agency functions are routinely consolidated and split. It's just stupid fearmongering.

Someone criticizes the unnecessary expansion of government, and you laugh it off as propaganda. You better turn in your conservative card, stat.
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kangolcone
07/17/19 4:03:52 PM
#44:


Tally Po: ICE was created in 2003 to handle the jobs of other agencies.

Also Tally Po: If we get rid of ICE, we will never be able to have anybody else handle their responsibilities.

And Im still waiting on the source which shows every child currently being held in makeshift prison has a parent who committed multiple crimes.
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Lirishae
07/17/19 4:05:05 PM
#45:


Taily_Po posted...
So you want to abolish ICE then create another agency to do the same thing? What exactly are you trying to resolve? Usually these changes happen to fit an actual purpose, but you just want superficial change for the sake of change.

The purpose of abolishing ICE would be creating an agency that respects human rights and due process, doesn't lock up and deport thousands of US citizens, and isn't hated by a majority of the country. No one is saying we don't need any immigration enforcement whatsoever. What we don't need is ICE. They are hated by many in the same way that people hate Nazis and the devil, and they're constantly complaining about how this interferes with their jobs.
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