Poll of the Day > what if episode 9 involves time travel

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Nade Duck
07/15/19 12:22:36 AM
#1:


and they bring back biggs but accidentally kill luke in the past

what if han shot first
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Mead
07/15/19 12:26:01 AM
#2:


what if snoke mattered
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ThatHappySack
07/15/19 12:34:49 AM
#3:


What if it was all a bad trip after Luke did some death sticks.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 12:37:59 AM
#4:


I too just watched the RedLetterMedia prediction video.


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DevilSummoner1
07/15/19 12:40:04 AM
#5:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
I too just watched the RedLetterMedia prediction video.


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Nade Duck
07/15/19 1:06:37 AM
#6:


DevilSummoner1 posted...
ParanoidObsessive posted...
I too just watched the RedLetterMedia prediction video.


<3
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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 1:45:52 AM
#7:


Nade Duck posted...
<3

The moment where Rich went "Oh my god, this movie is going to be shit, isn't it?", I was like "Oh my God, he's totally right."

Like, I've assumed intellectually for months now that the movie was going to be shit, but in that moment when Mike mentioned who was writing it, and Rich's response to that, I suddenly felt a visceral, emotional realization that it probably can't be anything other than shit.


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Nade Duck
07/15/19 2:10:48 AM
#8:


everything they said actually sounds reasonable and as terrible as it is i really hope they just go batshit insane with it.

honestly when i first heard palpatine's laugh it reminded me of that weird time travel shit from rebels. i guess there's precedence, even if it's never mentioned in any movie and will feel like a complete asspull.
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AllstarSniper32
07/15/19 3:46:03 AM
#9:


Doesn't matter what's in it, people will whine about it no matter what.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 4:03:52 AM
#10:


AllstarSniper32 posted...
Doesn't matter what's in it, people will whine about it no matter what.

The majority only whine when it's shit, though.

When something is good the majority will usually praise it and only a vocal minority rant about how much it sucks.

But we haven't really had a good main sequence Star Wars movie for 36 years now, so it's hard to say what the reaction to one would be even if they manged to make one again.



Nade Duck posted...
honestly when i first heard palpatine's laugh it reminded me of that weird time travel shit from rebels

The scary part is I guarantee that neither of them were aware that time travel was touched on in the cartoons at all (I certainly wasn't), but Mike still managed to come up with the idea. The fact that there's actually precedent for it just makes it even more horrifyingly likely.


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AllstarSniper32
07/15/19 4:23:25 AM
#11:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
The majority only whine when it's shit, though.

The majority only whine when it's not the original trilogy.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
so it's hard to say what the reaction to one would be even if they manged to make one again.

They'd probably say it's terrible because it's too much like the original trilogy.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 4:50:03 AM
#12:


AllstarSniper32 posted...
ParanoidObsessive posted...
The majority only whine when it's shit, though.

The majority only whine when it's not the original trilogy.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.


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Foppe
07/15/19 5:15:57 AM
#13:


Nade Duck posted...
and they bring back biggs but accidentally kill luke in the past

what if han shot first

Biggs is Snoke.
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Muscles
07/15/19 6:33:21 AM
#14:


7 was safe but solid and 8 was worse than anything in the prequels, even jarjar or kid anakin

They would have to pull a miracle out of their ass for it not to be shit based on the ending 8 set up for 9
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Mead
07/15/19 6:40:02 AM
#15:


8 had a lot of issues but to act like its worse than any of the prequels is just bananas
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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 11:40:23 PM
#16:


Mead posted...
8 had a lot of issues but to act like its worse than any of the prequels is just bananas

Taken as a whole, it probably was.

The Luke/Rey/Kylo parts were actually pretty good, people who were annoyed about Luke not getting a happy ending (or the people who were just pissed that he didn't found a New Jedi Order and marry Mara Jade like he did in the EU) notwithstanding. But even those parts had flaws.

And almost everything else in the movie is absolutely terrible, and made worse by being mostly pointless or constantly falling into the category of "every single person in this scene is an idiot". It doesn't help that Rian Johnson's sole goal for the film seems to have been to take every single dangling plot hook he'd been handed, and deliberately and dismissively ruin every single one of them before passing the whole mess off to someone else to fix. Which may be the real sin of the movie - and one the prequels never really committed - namely, sabotaging future films in the franchise.

In terms of pure film-making and plotting, I'd argue it's easily worse than any of the prequels. It's only real saving grace over the prequels is that the actors aren't quite as wooden and the visuals are somewhat more dynamic, but even that's devalued by the fact that those positives are in service to nothing.

If you cut out everything in the film that doesn't involve Rey, Kylo, and Luke, and then you expand on their scenes to actually solve their inherent problems, and then you come up with minor things for Finn and Poe to do that directly relate to the core of the movie (ie, Rey and Kylo), you could probably salvage a worthwhile film out of it. But as is, the terrible parts completely unbalance anything worthwhile, until the overall experience manages to irritate and annoy far more than Jar-Jar or Anakin ever did.

Say what you want about Lucas, or the prequels (and make no mistake, they ARE bad), but at least he had an overarching vision for the narrative (even if it was a bad one). The sequels go too far in the opposite direction, and come across like disjointed messes with no purpose or goal because there's no singular vision helming the ship.

The MCU works well because above all of the separate filmmakers and screenwriters, there is ONE man who is dictating how the movies need to intermesh and the ultimate ending they were working towards. The sequels lack that completely, because "the guy from Lost", a transgressive filmmaker, and "the guy who did Jurassic World" were basically given carte blanche to do whatever they wanted with no overarching plot or end goal, and no real restrictions or guidance.


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Mead
07/15/19 11:41:51 PM
#17:


I notice you glossed over the porgs completely PO
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papercup
07/15/19 11:45:59 PM
#18:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
I too just watched the RedLetterMedia prediction video.


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ParanoidObsessive
07/15/19 11:46:14 PM
#19:


Mead posted...
I notice you glossed over the porgs completely PO

Well, to be fair, if the milk Luke squeezes out of those alien udders on his planet had been blue instead of green, it would have been a 10/10 perfect film. But as is, even the porgs can't undo such terrible disregard for continuity.


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Revelation34
07/16/19 12:05:25 AM
#20:


Nade Duck posted...
everything they said actually sounds reasonable and as terrible as it is i really hope they just go batshit insane with it.

honestly when i first heard palpatine's laugh it reminded me of that weird time travel shit from rebels. i guess there's precedence, even if it's never mentioned in any movie and will feel like a complete asspull.


Time travel is reasonable?
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dedbus
07/16/19 12:05:35 AM
#21:


Now you got me thinking the last Jedi reminds me of those 3 word story topics were everyone tries to shit up the story.
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dragon504
07/16/19 1:42:58 AM
#22:


8 is literally worse than the prequels. 2 is super boring, but still better than 8. 7 is ok, but ripped off 4 way too much. It's essentially a shinier ep 4. It has a few moments though, at least. Rey is a big problem for me. A few lines here and there saying why she's a good pilot and good at tinkering with spacecraft would've went a long way imo, but they didn't do that. She's just apparently an excellent pilot for absolutely no reason. I think one of the best things they did for 7 was that the saber battles were crappy. It made a lot of sense for none of these people wielding sabers to be any good with them yet.
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Zenithian Legend
07/16/19 11:29:10 AM
#23:


What if Episode IX ends with George Lucas waking up and saying he just had the worst dream.

Also he's wearing Mickey Mouse pajamas.
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GanonsSpirit
07/16/19 11:53:49 AM
#24:


Episode 8 is way worse than the prequels.
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wwinterj25
07/16/19 1:04:04 PM
#25:


Mead posted...
what if snoke mattered


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ForteEXE3850
07/16/19 1:22:30 PM
#26:


Why would you hire the guy who wrote Batman vs Superman and Justice League to write this film.

It's practically intentional sabotage.
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Black_Crusher
07/16/19 1:44:30 PM
#27:


AllstarSniper32 posted...
Doesn't matter what's in it, people will whine about it no matter what.

Not if they bring Luke back they won't.
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Zenithian Legend
07/16/19 3:15:23 PM
#28:


GanonsSpirit posted...
Episode 8 is way worse than the prequels.

Episode 8 was worse than the Ewok movie starting Wilford Brimley.
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I_Always_Die
07/16/19 3:22:16 PM
#29:


rey is gonna be revealed to be a failed clone of palp. Thats seriously the plot of episode 9 lol
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Mead
07/16/19 3:33:22 PM
#30:


ForteEXE3850 posted...
Why would you hire the guy who wrote Batman vs Superman and Justice League to write this film.

It's practically intentional sabotage.


they did what
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ParanoidObsessive
07/16/19 3:41:14 PM
#31:


Mead posted...
they did what

Yeah, that was the moment I mentioned earlier where I basically ceased to give even the remotest of shits about this film, because there's no possible chance it can be worthwhile.


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Black_Crusher
07/16/19 8:04:30 PM
#32:


I_Always_Die posted...
rey is gonna be revealed to be a failed clone of palp. Thats seriously the plot of episode 9 lol

At least she doesn't LOOK like him hubba hubba ooo laa laa!
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Mead
07/16/19 8:11:21 PM
#33:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
Mead posted...
they did what

Yeah, that was the moment I mentioned earlier where I basically ceased to give even the remotest of shits about this film, because there's no possible chance it can be worthwhile.



Yeah fuck that movie

jfc
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DarkKirby2500
07/16/19 10:01:45 PM
#34:


As absurd as a time travel plot would be, going back to The Knights of the Old Republic would be a good thing for the franchise.

Not that you would need a time travel story to do that. Just abandon the current timeline and start a new story that takes place way, way, way in the past before the collapse of the Sith empire.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/16/19 10:19:48 PM
#35:


DarkKirby2500 posted...
As absurd as a time travel plot would be, going back to The Knights of the Old Republic would be a good thing for the franchise.

Not that you would need a time travel story to do that. Just abandon the current timeline and start a new story that takes place way, way, way in the past before the collapse of the Sith empire.

The problem there is which Old Republic you go back to.

Remember, the EU is dead and purged. Anything set far enough back in Old Republic times would just draw inevitable comparisons to previous EU stories, and people would probably complain endlessly that the new thing isn't exactly like the old thing.


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GanonsSpirit
07/16/19 10:25:50 PM
#36:


Re-canonize the EU and make the Thrawn trilogy. They'd have to re-cast the OT characters though.
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Revelation34
07/17/19 12:25:17 AM
#37:


GanonsSpirit posted...
Re-canonize the EU and make the Thrawn trilogy. They'd have to re-cast the OT characters though.


I just ignore Disney on that since Lucas himself approved of the EU. Original creator has more precedence than who bought the rights.
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#38
Post #38 was unavailable or deleted.
DarkKirby2500
07/17/19 4:24:20 PM
#39:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
DarkKirby2500 posted...
As absurd as a time travel plot would be, going back to The Knights of the Old Republic would be a good thing for the franchise.

Not that you would need a time travel story to do that. Just abandon the current timeline and start a new story that takes place way, way, way in the past before the collapse of the Sith empire.

The problem there is which Old Republic you go back to.

Remember, the EU is dead and purged. Anything set far enough back in Old Republic times would just draw inevitable comparisons to previous EU stories, and people would probably complain endlessly that the new thing isn't exactly like the old thing.


I don't think it matters, as long as it's written well.

The issue is the current time line is kind of at a dead end, with only a few Jedi or Sith around at any time, and then always referencing the original films.

Of course, none of this matters if they're still unable to write a good story.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/18/19 12:47:02 AM
#40:


Revelation34 posted...
I just ignore Disney on that since Lucas himself approved of the EU.

He really didn't, though. It would be more accurate to say that he completely ignored the EU, and that his stance on it was more or less "I don't care what they do or whether or not they call it "canon", just so long as I can contradict literally anything they say the next time I feel like making a movie."

Lucas never read anything in the EU. He certainly never signed off on ideas on an individual basis. He just cashed the checks from the licensing and let his underlings handle the details, because he didn't give even the remotest of shits. The few rare ideas he actually kept from the EU (like Aayla Secura) happened more or less by accident (in Aayla Secura's case, he literally only saw a picture of her hanging up by one of his underling's desks, said she looked interesting, and then got a 1-2 sentence description of who she was before slipping her into the films, and blatantly killing her off because he didn't actually care about her as a character). As far as he was concerned, the only thing that was ever really canon was what he put in the films, and nothing else.

The whole multi-tier canon system was basically just a line of bullshit they fed to fanboys to convince them that the EU was someone "official" and "true" in the context of the Star Wars universe, to encourage them to buy dozens of books, when it was essentially only slightly above the level of fanfiction.

And honestly, most of what people fondly remember from the EU (other than Zahn's books) wasn't even from the "upper" tier of pseudo-canon anyway. Stuff like KotOR was like three levels down, only just barely avoiding being declared officially non-canon entirely.

And there was a LOT of absolute feces in the EU.



Revelation34 posted...
Original creator has more precedence than who bought the rights.

In most shared universe franchises, this is the opposite of true. Especially if the original creator sells the entirety of the rights in perpetuity.

This is why comic stories are retconned constantly - the ideas and intentions of the creators are almost immaterial to the ideas and intentions of whoever currently owns the IP. And we explicitly accept this as a culture - most of what you know about any given comic character comes from stories written by other writers long after the original creators had moved on. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the X-Men, but the only reason anyone even knows who they are today is more because of Chris Claremont. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster created Superman, but if you were to make a list of the top 10 things most people know about the character, about 8-9 of those things were likely dictated or outright created by other people.

Like it or not, Lucas' right to have opinions about Star Wars that really matter ended the moment he cashed the check.

Though some people would argue that Lucas' right to have opinions about Star Wars ended sometime in the 1980s, because he bought into his own hype and went batshit insane. But that's a more subjective discussion.

(Though it's not as if Lucas' proposed ideas for the sequel trilogy were any better than what we got. Seriously, track down and read some of the ideas he was passing on to Disney when he still thought they were going to pay attention to his ideas. They're absolutely terrible - and some of them are clearly him still dipping into the well of bad ideas he'd had in the 70s but which he cut out of the original film's script because everyone around him (included multiple Oscar-winning directors told him they were incredibly bad.)


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Revelation34
07/18/19 1:40:53 AM
#41:


If the original creator says something then somebody else they sold the rights to says something else the original creator is all that matters. They created it therefore they are the correct one.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/18/19 1:48:22 AM
#42:


Revelation34 posted...
If the original creator says something then somebody else they sold the rights to says something else the original creator is all that matters. They created it therefore they are the correct one.

Pertinent words are pertinent.


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Revelation34
07/18/19 1:55:02 AM
#43:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
Pertinent words are pertinent.


I don't think you know what that word means.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/18/19 2:45:54 AM
#44:


Revelation34 posted...
I don't think you know what that word means.

And I'm not sure you understand what the word "rights" means, but that's okay.


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Revelation34
07/18/19 3:24:14 AM
#45:


ParanoidObsessive posted...
And I'm not sure you understand what the word "rights" means, but that's okay.


Being sold rights doesn't make you the original creator.
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AllstarSniper32
07/18/19 5:08:55 AM
#46:


Revelation34 posted...
ParanoidObsessive posted...
And I'm not sure you understand what the word "rights" means, but that's okay.

Being sold rights doesn't make you the original creator.

But they didn't buy "rights", they bought the whole thing. They're not the original creator, but they own everything that pertains to the property. And this is why whatever the original creator thinks doesn't matter because they don't own it anymore.
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ParanoidObsessive
07/18/19 10:39:44 AM
#47:


Revelation34 posted...
Being sold rights doesn't make you the original creator.

Being the original creator doesn't mean you have any rights after you've sold them.

If I build a house, live in it for years, but then sell it to you, I don't get to come back next week and complain about the color you've decided to repaint it, nor do my opinions about whether you should have carpet or hardwood floors matter in any realistic way.


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Revelation34
07/18/19 1:05:22 PM
#48:


AllstarSniper32 posted...

But they didn't buy "rights", they bought the whole thing. They're not the original creator, but they own everything that pertains to the property. And this is why whatever the original creator thinks doesn't matter because they don't own it anymore.


Doesn't matter. The original creator of something is what determines what canon is. Sure somebody can retcon it and say it's different but nobody should take them serious.
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AllstarSniper32
07/18/19 2:18:17 PM
#49:


Revelation34 posted...
AllstarSniper32 posted...
But they didn't buy "rights", they bought the whole thing. They're not the original creator, but they own everything that pertains to the property. And this is why whatever the original creator thinks doesn't matter because they don't own it anymore.

Doesn't matter. The original creator of something is what determines what canon is. Sure somebody can retcon it and say it's different but nobody should take them serious.

Yes, it does matter, when you sell something, it's not yours anymore. It's really not a hard concept.
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Revelation34
07/18/19 4:04:44 PM
#50:


AllstarSniper32 posted...
Yes, it does matter, when you sell something, it's not yours anymore. It's really not a hard concept.


And you don't know what the original creator is obviously.
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