Board 8 > I'm playing Xenogears... (spoilers)

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LeonhartFour
07/17/19 6:19:04 PM
#51:


well just forewarning you that there will be a lot more of that in Disc 2
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07/17/19 6:33:15 PM
#52:


Got my ass rocked by Shakhan just now.
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07/17/19 7:32:38 PM
#53:


The boss guide told me "use Billy, don't use Chu-chu" for a boss, but the game didn't even give me an option, I just had to use Chu-chu. Not sure what's up with that.
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07/17/19 7:51:59 PM
#54:


I refuse to believe Bart knows the word bathyscaphe.
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07/18/19 12:17:31 PM
#55:


I'm sorry, game. The name "Esmerelda" to me is associated exclusively with Disney.
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07/19/19 1:14:46 AM
#56:


Never seen an FMV be interspersed with normal in-game stuff before. What a bizarre choice.
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07/19/19 1:41:27 AM
#57:


Finally reached disc 2.
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LeonhartFour
07/19/19 8:05:17 AM
#58:


Anagram posted...
Never seen an FMV be interspersed with normal in-game stuff before. What a bizarre choice.


Pretty sure the PS1 FF games all did it.
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MartinFF7
07/19/19 8:19:30 AM
#59:


Anagram posted...
Finally reached disc 2.

What was the end of disc 1? I'm struggling to remember, I think they go to Solaris and I remember a soylent green reference but nothing else.

Disc 2 now, woo... get those reading glasses on!
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htaeD
07/19/19 8:28:30 AM
#60:


I didnt mind disc 2 as much because by that time I was way too invested with the insane plot and all the twists

Miang is best villain
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07/19/19 11:51:32 AM
#61:


MartinFF7 posted...
Anagram posted...
Finally reached disc 2.

What was the end of disc 1? I'm struggling to remember, I think they go to Solaris and I remember a soylent green reference but nothing else.

Disc 2 now, woo... get those reading glasses on!

They went to Solaris, Fei is revealed to be Id, Fei and Elly leave the group, Ramsus shoots them down.
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07/19/19 12:11:57 PM
#62:


"Your friend's wounds are more serious, they may take more time to heal."

*Sixty seconds later*

"Her treatment is finished."
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LeonhartFour
07/19/19 4:19:39 PM
#63:


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Uglyface2
07/19/19 5:27:15 PM
#64:


This was a suffocating bit that removed any desire I once had to finish the game. I think I reached a point where I could have potentially gotten to the end because the world opened back up with side quests, but the narration just destroyed it for me and I couldn't be bothered anymore.
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07/19/19 6:23:21 PM
#65:


I saved after beating the Elements girls again.

I'm surprised this game has so much cut. What's happened in the narration so far sounds like it would have been a huge amount of gametime, and there's more yet to come. How long was this game intended to be?
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Nelson_Mandela
07/19/19 6:31:41 PM
#66:


Anagram posted...
I saved after beating the Elements girls again.

I'm surprised this game has so much cut. What's happened in the narration so far sounds like it would have been a huge amount of gametime, and there's more yet to come. How long was this game intended to be?

I suggest watching the resonant arc review when you're done. They get into some of the dev history.

My guess is a fully realized xenogears game would have been at least 100 hours instead of 80.
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xp1337
07/19/19 7:18:22 PM
#67:


Anagram posted...
Finally reached disc 2.

the legend begins
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07/21/19 12:29:25 PM
#68:


I'm in some cavern with a random encounter rate of every five steps, and the puzzles here are so obscure and dumb that I've had to check a GameFAQs walkthrough multiple times.
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PrinceReva
07/21/19 1:38:33 PM
#69:


Even though you're heading toward the finish, I'm going to tag this topic because I love this game so damn much and want to see all of the discussion about it.
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07/21/19 6:20:20 PM
#70:


I just got to the crucifixion scene. I'd heard about the Chu-chu part before playing the game because of how absurd it is, but boy oh boy, I was unprepared.
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xp1337
07/21/19 6:23:14 PM
#71:


yesssssssss
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Uglyface2
07/21/19 6:43:04 PM
#72:


Anagram posted...
I just got to the crucifixion scene. I'd heard about the Chu-chu part before playing the game because of how absurd it is, but boy oh boy, I was unprepared.


As one caption on The GIA read, "He died for chu sins."
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07/21/19 7:44:16 PM
#73:


So I fought Ramsus, got all of my gears reduced to 1 HP and sub-1000 fuel, won, and then immediately had to fight another gear and got my ass destroyed.

That was fun.
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07/21/19 10:13:53 PM
#74:


Stopped for now after talking to God in the Zohar. I feel like this may be almost the end of the game, but the length of the cutscenes even when in black void mode makes it impossible to tell.
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_stingers_
07/22/19 4:36:06 AM
#75:


Ramses was such a bitch
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07/22/19 5:11:34 PM
#76:


Fei upon realizing he may have just killed Elly:

"Oh... oh my gosh!"
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07/22/19 9:03:01 PM
#77:


Had great difficulty with the final boss' subbosses.
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MartinFF7
07/22/19 9:12:14 PM
#78:


Anagram posted...
Fei upon realizing he may have just killed Elly:

"Oh... oh my gosh!"

wonder what it was pre-localization...

Anagram posted...
So I fought Ramsus, got all of my gears reduced to 1 HP and sub-1000 fuel, won, and then immediately had to fight another gear and got my ass destroyed.

That was fun.

okay I burst out laughing because I remembered that. Just terrible.

You're at the end already! I guess it's been over a week but feels like yesterday...
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07/22/19 9:50:20 PM
#79:


I actually reached Deus this time, but the subbosses had worn me down so much that I lost. I could have done it if I'd lost less fuel against the one who drains it, but oh well.
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07/22/19 10:54:38 PM
#81:


I have beaten the game. Thoughts:
1. What was with the ending saying "Xenogears Episode V?" Was this going to be some Star Wars thing with prequels?
2. Does Xenogears have any connection to Xenosaga or Xenoblade? I ask this as someone who's played Xenosaga 1 and Xenoblade 1, but none of the sequels to either game.
3. I learned the light-elemental deathblow for Fei, but never actually got to use it, because all of the last section of the game was just in gears. It would have been nice if we got to use the characters on foot at all during the last portion of the game.
4. I can't believe the audacity to finish exactly half of a game, then have the second half be characters sitting in an endless void describing what they would have done had the game been finished. That's something I wouldn't even invent as a joke. And it felt like there were multiple subplots that just didn't get resolved in any way, things like Rico and his father, the fate of Elly's parents, Jessie just randomly disappearing during disc 2, and especially Ramses. I really expected Ramses to show up and do something heroic at the end, but his last scene is getting slapped by Citan. I appreciate that they must have run out of money and time, but it's like... the first disc took me around 42 hours. The second disc describes events that would have been another 30-40 hours had it been finished. Clearly, Square planned two games' worth of content and then just didn't consider that they had the resources to make one game, and instead of just ending at a satisfying point and making Xenogears 2 later, they chose the weirdest possible way to finish the second half of the story.
5. This feels like the ultimate post-Neon Genesis Evangelion work of fiction. I looked it up and Xenogears came out two years later, so yeah.
6. This game has the same problem a lot of JRPGs have, which is that it has a bunch of main characters, but only like four matter. Fei, Citan, Elly, and Bart are the only ones who matter. You could cut basically all of the other heroic characters, including the NPCs like Sigurd, and it would barely affect the story at all, which is a problem in this gigantic epic that expects you to care about a million characters.
7. Really didn't like the ending with Krelian where Elly is like "he's a good guy, you should forgive him." The guy turned 99% of the human race into zombie mutants and then used their flesh to build a body for God, and in the end he's treated like a fallen hero. Get bent.
8. The translation isn't as bad as FF7's and FFT's, but it's still really awkward and silly.
9. Overall, I appreciate the game's ambition, I appreciate the weird out-of-battle gameplay system of being able to shift your camera and see all of the sprites in another direction (it must have taken a lot of resources to make four camera angles for every sprite, including walls, props, and so on), I appreciate how the game tries to tell this convoluted and too-epic story, and I like certain elements of the game, like the idea of human skeletons only appearing in the fossil record 10000 years ago and everyone wondering what's up with that, only for us to learn the answer, and weird stuff like the Gazel ministry giving up their bodies and becoming a giant floating computer... but I can't honestly say I like the game. Maybe I'd like it more if it was finished, but I feel like it's a 5/10 for me.

I am glad to have finished this game, though. It's been on my backlog since like 2004, when B8 told me to buy it and I actually did.
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MartinFF7
07/22/19 11:05:23 PM
#82:


I'll leave it to the professionals to answer but really, from my understanding: Xenosaga was originally envisioned as a 6 part saga and part 5 would essentially be a retelling of Xenogears. There are characters and elements that strongly set this up as well. But I might be wrong - and we'll never know for sure since Xenosaga was cut short - but there's a lot of Xeno lore out there and I may not be fully up to speed.

Speaking of which, you should play Xenosaga and make a "I'm playing Xenosaga... (spoilers)" topic. Please! More games i haven't played in too long and forgot stuff, though I last played them in 2010, which is better than Xenogears which was like.... 2002.

I agree that I remember deathblows and non-gear fighting being lots of fun and not having more of it, especially at the end, was a bit disappointing.

Maybe 5/10 is a bit harsh... but the legend of Disc 2 has truly been experienced.

Edit: I just remembered, my biggest mental block that I've never overcome. Everytime I see Grahf's mask image, I think that that's his face because the mask opening looks like a mouth. And if you think of it that way it's an extremely goofy and non-threatening face, rather than a mask. Yeah we see him in some anime cutscenes but it's still not the same... I need to get that default portrait overwritten with something that doesn't make me think... that's his mouth.

good news is I just googled it for reference and saw I wasn't the only one:

mLZTOUn
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07/22/19 11:07:58 PM
#83:


I'm reading that I missed a major sidequest to upgrade Emerelda into a teenager, oh well. I thought she looked weird in that last anime cutscene.

MartinFF7 posted...
Speaking of which, you should play Xenosaga and make a "I'm playing Xenosaga... (spoilers)" topic. Please! More games i haven't played in too long and forgot stuff, though I last played them in 2010, which is better than Xenogears which was like.... 2002.

That's not impossible, but I'm JRPGed out for a while.
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_stingers_
07/22/19 11:59:35 PM
#84:


I think all your points are fair, just comes down to how much you appreciate the story that was told even with it's flaws.

I'm sure for a lot of people it was their first exposure to an epic sci-fi work like that so it holds a special place in my heart

Plus as far as video game women go, Elly is high on my list of likeability. Avoids being too stereotypical japanese dream girl submissive like a lot of jrpg games tend to do
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DanKirby
07/23/19 11:39:45 AM
#85:


MartinFF7 posted...
I'll leave it to the professionals to answer but really, from my understanding: Xenosaga was originally envisioned as a 6 part saga and part 5 would essentially be a retelling of Xenogears. There are characters and elements that strongly set this up as well. But I might be wrong - and we'll never know for sure since Xenosaga was cut short - but there's a lot of Xeno lore out there and I may not be fully up to speed.


A bit of clarification based on what I remember (it's been a while since I was into this stuff): Xenogears was originally envisioned as the 5th part of a massive 6-part saga. The saga's backstory was laid out in a Japanese databook released by the creators.
Later, after the creators of Xenogears left Square, they revised the original Xenogears backstory and used that revised story as the basis for the Xenosaga games. While the Xenosaga story in general shares major elements of what was originally created for Xenogears, many of the details were changed.
Also, the three Xenosaga games cover what was meant to be simply Episode I of the overall saga.
There's probably a lot more to say about the subject, but I fell out of touch with the fandom years ago, as I said earlier. I don't know how much additional data was released/translated since then.
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07/23/19 11:54:41 AM
#86:


So is there any canonness between Saga and Gears? I noticed that Xenogears didn't say what happened to the spacefaring civilization that built Deus.
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AxemRedRanger
07/23/19 12:17:29 PM
#87:


Obligatory:

https://lparchive.org/Xenogears-(by-The-Dark-Id)/Citan/
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07/23/19 12:33:13 PM
#88:


AxemRedRanger posted...
Obligatory:

https://lparchive.org/Xenogears-(by-The-Dark-Id)/Citan/

I dont remember seeing Redrums hopeful son, but otherwise this is great.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/23/19 12:58:47 PM
#89:


Anagram posted...
So is there any canonness between Saga and Gears? I noticed that Xenogears didn't say what happened to the spacefaring civilization that built Deus.

Technically Saga is not canon. But people have filled in the blanks and tried to make it that way.

In terms of episodes, Perfect Works (the Xenogears "Bible") lays out the episodic breakdown basically as each reincarnation of Fei. It's something like this:

Episode 1: All of the events surrounding the opening cutscene (the Eldridge and all the space stuff leading up to it)
Episode 2: The genesis years with Miang/Gazel Ministry/Emperor Cain/Abel (remember the flashback with Cain chasing and killing Abel and Elly)
Episode 3: Kim in Zeboim 6000 years later
Episode 4: Lacan/Grahf and Sophia story 3000 years after that (Krelian in Solaris, etc.)
Episode 5: Xenogears 500 years later
Episode 6: ??

Basically this could have been the most preposterously epic series of all time. And I would be obsessed with it.
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xp1337
07/23/19 5:25:34 PM
#90:


Anagram posted...
So is there any canonness between Saga and Gears? I noticed that Xenogears didn't say what happened to the spacefaring civilization that built Deus.

No.

But enough similarities exist in general that you can kind of pretend it is. (Earth being lost/sealed, Zohar, space, etc.) but really it isn't.

Saga has shout-outs to Gears though, particularly Xenosaga 3 which is the most prevalent with them.
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07/23/19 5:32:19 PM
#91:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Anagram posted...
So is there any canonness between Saga and Gears? I noticed that Xenogears didn't say what happened to the spacefaring civilization that built Deus.

Technically Saga is not canon. But people have filled in the blanks and tried to make it that way.

In terms of episodes, Perfect Works (the Xenogears "Bible") lays out the episodic breakdown basically as each reincarnation of Fei. It's something like this:

Episode 1: All of the events surrounding the opening cutscene (the Eldridge and all the space stuff leading up to it)
Episode 2: The genesis years with Miang/Gazel Ministry/Emperor Cain/Abel (remember the flashback with Cain chasing and killing Abel and Elly)
Episode 3: Kim in Zeboim 6000 years later
Episode 4: Lacan/Grahf and Sophia story 3000 years after that (Krelian in Solaris, etc.)
Episode 5: Xenogears 500 years later
Episode 6: ??

Basically this could have been the most preposterously epic series of all time. And I would be obsessed with it.

This is really interesting, thanks. Reminds me of Shenmue's original 16-part plan.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/23/19 6:47:32 PM
#92:


Check out the first few pages of this. It gives a more detailed background of the planned episode list: https://www.flickr.com/photos/29956195@N08/sets/72157616593453778/
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07/23/19 8:08:39 PM
#93:


Thanks. I knew this game had to have a crazy ambitious backstory behind it, but this is more than I expected.
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Nelson_Mandela
07/23/19 11:23:12 PM
#94:


I've been looking for something as ambitious as Xenogears for 20 years now. Besides golden age final fantasies and the Chrono series, I still haven't come across it.

Maybe Xenoblade but I still don't think the lore comes close.
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_stingers_
07/24/19 5:13:42 AM
#95:


Xenoblade is nowhere near close, lol

I think the ambition to write something like that fades with age. And space epics aren't as cool now as they were in the 90s, so who knows if we'll ever get a great one

Mass effect was pretty good but Western games are cut from a whole different cloth then what xenogears went for. I vastly preferred the setting of the latter
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Nelson_Mandela
07/24/19 1:38:06 PM
#96:


Mass Effect definitely scratched that itch in terms of scale, but you're right in that WRPGs are just a different ballpark. Is it so much to ask for a 100+ hour JRPG that builds a sci-fi epic across 10,000 years?
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Nelson_Mandela
07/27/19 3:38:25 PM
#97:


Hi anagram
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07/27/19 4:15:37 PM
#98:


Heya?
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