Current Events > Yulin dog meat festival begins in China

(+) Yeah! (+)

USB-C posted...

They are only morally equivalent to contrarians like you who constantly have to pick shitty and pointless hills to die on.

They're only morally equivalent because you presented a dumb argument for why we should consider plants morally equivalent to all living beings and you dug yourself into a corner.
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It's sad that it's only pets that people seem to care about. It is what it is. You can subscribe to that way of thinking, but don't call yourself an animal lover if you turn around and also eat meat.
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Anyone of you that eat meat have absolutely no right to be upset over this

There are cultures where pigs and cows are sacred, at a higher level than our culture sees dogs, yet no one cares.

The hypocrisy
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@Frolex posted...

Sure, i'll respond to the general Idea of your post

I know you're lying, but what the hell.

1) Many of these dogs were house pets. They were raised and treated as pets their entire lives. The cows/pigs/chickens that undergo the factory farming process were never pets.

2) The factory farming/slaughterhouse process, while horrific in its own right, is all about profit and efficiency. It's horrible, and I certainly have problems with it, but it wasn't designed to cause wanton suffering. This dog festival is another thing. There is the belief that the more the dog suffers, the tastier the meat will be. Regardless of that belief or not, "Many dogs suffer before being killed, there are videos of dogs being beaten to death with metal bars, skinned alive, boiled alive and suffer many diseases" (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival).

Are the pigs/cows/chickens in factory farming skinned alive or boiled alive? I have seen the videos, they almost made me cry.

3) Yes, factory farming is bad, but that is a different issue.One can be against this barbaric festival AND also demand better conditions for the cows/pigs/chickens. I certainly do.

4) Dogs and humans have co-evolved together and their biology has been intertwined for ages. Dogs and human have been together before dogs were dogs and humans were humans. They copy human behaviors, learned to bark to communicate with humans, and release endorphins when they see "their" humans. A study shows that a very young puppy will walk to a person instead than to an adult dog (if he hasn't' met either), showing how oriented to humans their brain is now, they're basically hardwired to worship us.

They certainly are different from a chicken or cow, wouldn't you say?

5) again, there are news stories of dogs fighting snakes, cougars, even fucking bears to defend "their" humans, that is the degree of loyalty and awareness that a dog has. They also lead blind people, go on rescue missions and some are trained to detect diabetic attacks and situations like that before they happen. Some dogs even offer their own bodies as pillows to help humans suffering a seizure. What other species does this?

Try showing me evidence or cows fighting cougars to defend their farmers, chickens offering their bodies as pillows to help humans suffering a seizure, "blind leading pigs", etc. I'll wait. If you happen to show me more than 10 cases, I'll concede on this.

Garrafan posted...

Anyone of you that eat meat have absolutely no right to be upset over this

There are cultures where pigs and cows are sacred, at a higher level than our culture sees dogs, yet no one cares.

The hypocrisy

your counter argument is... religion? LMAO

YokoGeri posted...

1) Many of these dogs were house pets. They were raised and treated as pets their entire lives. The cows/pigs/chickens that undergo the factory farming process were never pets.

This is really the only unique thing going and it's terrible, I agree. But as far being mistreated, both the dogs and factory farm animals are tortured and given hell. It shouldn't be a contest of who has it worst or whether or not one is "efficient". Animal cruelty should just be animal cruelty.

And for everything else in that post? Kind of comes off as selfish. Like, the only reason you're holding one animal higher than the other is because of what it can for you.
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Kickflip posted...

YokoGeri posted...

1) Many of these dogs were house pets. They were raised and treated as pets their entire lives. The cows/pigs/chickens that undergo the factory farming process were never pets.

This is really the only unique thing going and it's terrible, I agree. But as far being mistreated, both the dogs and factory farm animals are tortured and given hell. It shouldn't be a contest of who has it worst or whether or not one is "efficient". Animal cruelty should just be animal cruelty.

And for everything else in that post? Kind of comes off as selfish. Like, the only reason you're holding one animal higher than the other is because of what it can for you.

For me? I've never met the Yulin dogs. You're the selfish one, you find the dog meat tasty or think it will get your man member harder so you defend this

YokoGeri posted...

For me

As humans. Oh, dogs can provide companionship, so they're cool. Cats and other cute pets too probably. Fuck everything else tho, they're just food.

It's really that simple.
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YokoGeri posted...

1) Many of these dogs were house pets. They were raised and treated as pets their entire lives. The cows/pigs/chickens that undergo the factory farming process were never pets.

If you're concerned about the suffering of animals, why should how an animal was raised matter? Would you still care if they were dogs bred and raised for slaughter? If you would still care, why even make this argument?

YokoGeri posted...

2) The factory farming/slaughterhouse process, while horrific in its own right, is all about profit and efficiency. It's horrible, and I certainly have problems with it, but it wasn't designed to cause wanton suffering. This dog festival is another thing. There is the belief that the more the dog suffers, the tastier the meat will be. Regardless of that belief or not, "Many dogs suffer before being killed, there are videos of dogs being beaten to death with metal bars, skinned alive, boiled alive and suffer many diseases" (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lychee_and_Dog_Meat_Festival).

If "profit" it is a noble enough motive for you to absolve people of the morality of torturing animals, why pretend to care about the way animals are treated? Are the profits gained from the slaughter and sale of dogs in other countries not enough justification for their treatment of animals?

YokoGeri posted...

Are the pigs/cows/chickens in factory farming skinned alive or boiled alive? I have seen the videos, they almost made me cry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_culling
YokoGeri posted...

4) Dogs and humans have co-evolved together and their biology has been intertwined for ages. Dogs and human have been together before dogs were dogs and humans were humans. They copy human behaviors, learned to bark to communicate with humans, and release endorphins when they see "their" humans. A study shows that a very young puppy will walk to a person instead than to an adult dog (if he hasn't' met either), showing how oriented to humans their brain is now, they're basically hardwired to worship us.

They certainly are different from a chicken or cow, wouldn't you say?

If the social relationship dogs have to humans in your culture is the thing that affords them moral value, why should we not equally value animals that carry equal social value to other cultures?

YokoGeri posted...

5) again, there are news stories of dogs fighting snakes, cougars, even fucking bears to defend "their" humans, that is the degree of loyalty and awareness that a dog has. They also lead blind people, go on rescue missions and some are trained to detect diabetic attacks and situations like that before they happen. Some dogs even offer their own bodies as pillows to help humans suffering a seizure. What other species does this?

Try showing me evidence or cows fighting cougars to defend their farmers, chickens offering their bodies as pillows to help humans suffering a seizure, "blind leading pigs", etc. I'll wait. If you happen to show me more than 10 cases, I'll concede on this.

Like I said before pigs serve as service animals and react to humans socially in all the same ways dogs do, and even posted academic sources to back my claim. Why don't you post some proof that they don't?
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Plus even a pig would eat bacon if given the chance. Its delicious!
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Garrafan posted...

Anyone of you that eat meat have absolutely no right to be upset over this

There are cultures where pigs and cows are sacred, at a higher level than our culture sees dogs, yet no one cares.

The hypocrisy

EVERYONE has the right to be upset over the torture of animals.

Why are you defending the torture of dogs?
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Kickflip posted...

YokoGeri posted...

For me

As humans. Oh, dogs can provide companionship, so they're cool. Cats and other cute pets too probably. Fuck everything else tho, they're just food.

It's really that simple.

you're confusing "offering companionship" to the level of biological and psychological bonding that dogs have with humans due to a co-evolutionary process. You're probably doing this on purpose too.

the dishonesty of the dog eaters ITT is amazing.

Yeah, there are blind leading pigs out there, millions of them, LMAO.

Hey guys, don't try to rob my home, I have a guard pig! LOL

pointing out eating dogs is the same as eating other animals only makes people upset because deep down they know it's true but don't want to feel bad about eating meat

the torture is a separate issue
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YokoGeri posted...

the dishonesty of the dog eaters ITT is amazing.

Yeah, there are blind leading pigs out there, millions of them, LMAO.

Hey guys, don't try to rob my home, I have a guard pig! LOL

Hey, you gave it your best shot. If nothing else, everyone will know you at least didn't go quietly.
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Kickflip posted...

YokoGeri posted...

1) Many of these dogs were house pets. They were raised and treated as pets their entire lives. The cows/pigs/chickens that undergo the factory farming process were never pets.

This is really the only unique thing going and it's terrible, I agree. But as far being mistreated, both the dogs and factory farm animals are tortured and given hell. It shouldn't be a contest of who has it worst or whether or not one is "efficient". Animal cruelty should just be animal cruelty.

And for everything else in that post? Kind of comes off as selfish. Like, the only reason you're holding one animal higher than the other is because of what it can for you.

I wish you could hear how ridiculous you sound straw-manning factory farming like it somehow justifies torturing and eating a dog "because it makes the meat taste better" or some other dumb reason.

How is it selfish to give a pass to a creature by not eating it that has given it's love and loyalty more than any other beast? Selfish would saying, fuck you dog, I'm hungry. Any animal can be a companion, but no animal has been molded as much to be man's companion than dogs and outside of apocalyptic living conditions it is downright treasonous to torture, kill and eat a dog let alone throw a festival fucking celebrating it.
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Kolibri X posted...

like it somehow justifies torturing and eating a dog

I mean, I doesn't. It's all pretty equally terrible. Like I said, animal cruelty is animal cruelty. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy that it takes something like a dog for people to start caring about the well being of animals (well, certain animals anyway).

Kolibri X posted...

Any animal can be a companion, but no animal has been molded as much to be man's companion than dogs and outside of apocalyptic living conditions it is downright treasonous to torture, kill and eat a dog let alone throw a festival f***ing celebrating it.

So what exactly is the cut off point to caring about animals? If you only care about dogs then fine, be consistent. But should we still have outrage when it's cats being eaten? Look, in the end I know there is always going to be folks that put dogs up on a pedestal. You just can't go around pretending to be an animal lover or pretend it's the animal part you care about when it comes to cruelty, but rather personal reasons that make you single out a single species. And if you acknowledge that, that's great, at least you're consistent. But a lot of people seem to set up varying goal posts of why dogs or pets get a pass while also contributing to the torture of several other animals by eating meat.
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Frolex posted...

YokoGeri posted...

the dishonesty of the dog eaters ITT is amazing.

Yeah, there are blind leading pigs out there, millions of them, LMAO.

Hey guys, don't try to rob my home, I have a guard pig! LOL

Hey, you gave it your best shot. If nothing else, everyone will know you at least didn't go quietly.

Not sure what you mean.

@Frolex posted...

If you're concerned about the suffering of animals, why should how an animal was raised matter? Would you still care if they were dogs bred and raised for slaughter? If you would still care, why even make this argument?

Wow, did you just try to move the goal posts there? My point is that the situation is different because these are PETS THAT GOT STOLEN. You don't get to re-frame my point and the pretend you answered with another set of question.

Just accept it, it's different to steal pets and murder them than to raise cattle and then eat said cattle. It's not a hard thing to accept.

2)

If "profit" it is a noble enough motive for you to absolve people of the morality of torturing animals, why pretend to care about the way animals are treated? Are the profits gained from the slaughter and sale of dogs in other countries not enough justification for their treatment of animals?

Did you just try to re-frame my point again and pretend to "answer" it with a set of other questions?

I never said that "profit" was noble. Show me where I said "profit is noble". Am I seeing a pattern here? Will you keep going around my points, re-framing the points (moving the goalposts, strawmanning) and answering with a set on different questions?

3)

If the social relationship dogs have to humans in your culture is the thing that affords them moral value, why should we not equally value animals that carry equal social value to other cultures?

Ah, so you're finally getting honest here. Your motivator was the "fuck western culture" angle. Ok, that makes more sense. Kudos for finally getting honest.

So, if in a specific culture it was considered admirable and high to beat the shit out of babies and torture them and then drink their blood while they're alive, you would be arguing in favor of that here? Got it.

I am NOT referring to any culture or specific cultural context in my point, my point is the biological and evolutionary bond between dogs and humans, not cultural context. The dog doesn't give a shit if you say "ni hao" or "konichiwa" or "hello", or whether you use chopsticks or forks or your hands, he still secretes "happy hormones' when he sees humans, he is still hard wired to seek human companionship even above that of other dogs, and it still understands stuff such as what a smile is or what pointing with a finger is. "Fuck the west" isn't a factor here.

4)

Like I said before pigs serve as service animals and react to humans socially in all the same ways dogs do, and even posted academic sources to back my claim. Why don't you post some proof that they don't?.

Aaaaaaaandd the goal post moving and pretending to answer my question with a question continues.

I can show you hundreds of instances showing the existence of dogs that lead blind people or serve as attack-detecting dogs (e.g. diabetic attack) or dogs that serve in search and rescue missions, or dogs that fight other animals to defend their humans. It's a lack of common sense to ask me to prove those things exist. I asked YOU to show me a good number of cases where pigs do the same. Come on, I'll wait.

I used bold to emphasize my points again, which you could not answer and instead tried to reframe. Good luck.

I think it should be noted that it's OK to prefer dogs. Having a favourite animal shouldn't cause such a drastic distinction between caring for it to skipping being apathetic towards other animals, all the way to actively contributing to the torture of other animals by supporting it (buying and eating). It's that level of disconnect that is alarming to people like me. Am I so wrong to think that while I understand preferring a particular animal because we share a bind and can have them as companions, that there still shouldn't be some hierarchy as to why someone would support animal cruelty with some arbitrary exceptions? I simply think we shouldn't be supporting the harm any animals instead of making these exceptions. That shouldn't be a controversial stance, but once you point out how cruelty to dogs isn't all that different to cruelty of other animals, some people just can't accept it.
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YokoGeri posted...

Wow, did you just try to move the goal posts there? My point is that the situation is different because these are PETS THAT GOT STOLEN. You don't get to re-frame my point and the pretend you answered with another set of question.

Just accept it, it's different to steal pets and murder them than to raise cattle and then eat said cattle. It's not a hard thing to accept.

Why does how the animals were raised matter to the morality of torturing them? Again, if you wouldn't say it was acceptable to raise dogs from birth for slaughter, what's the point of raising this as an argument

YokoGeri posted...

Did you just try to re-frame my point again and pretend to "answer" it with a set of other questions?

I never said that "profit" was noble. Show me where I said "profit is noble". Am I seeing a pattern here? Will you keep going around my points, re-framing the points (moving the goalposts, strawmanning) and answering with a set on different questions?

Do you have justification for your position or not? Why would profit morally justify torture of other animals besides dogs?

YokoGeri posted...

Ah, so you're finally getting honest here. Your motivator was the "fuck western culture" angle. Ok, that makes more sense. Kudos for finally getting honest.

I could see how someone could read that argument if they were illiterate. not what anyone in this topic has actually said though, unfortunately for you.YokoGeri posted...

So, if in a specific culture it was considered admirable and high to beat the shit out of babies and torture them and then drink their blood while they're alive, you would be arguing in favor of that here? Got it.

I am NOT referring to any culture or specific cultural context in my point, my point is the biological and evolutionary bond between dogs and humans, not cultural context. The dog doesn't give a shit if you say "ni hao" or "konichiwa" or "hello", or whether you use chopsticks or forks or your hands, he still secretes "happy hormones' when he sees humans, he is still hard wired to seek human companionship even above that of other dogs, and it still understands stuff such as what a smile is or what pointing with a finger is. "Fuck the west" isn't a factor here.

"Fuck everyone but the west" seems to be the factor here, since you don't seem to care much about the "hApPy HoRmOnEs" or smiles from animals that other cultures value.

YokoGeri posted...

Aaaaaaaandd the goal post moving and pretending to answer my question with a question continues.

I can show you hundreds of instances showing the existence of dogs that lead blind people or serve as attack-detecting dogs (e.g. diabetic attack) or dogs that serve in search and rescue missions, or dogs that fight other animals to defend their humans. It's a lack of common sense to ask me to prove those things exist. I asked YOU to show me a good number of cases where pigs do the same. Come on, I'll wait.

I used bold to emphasize my points again, which you could not answer and instead tried to reframe. Good luck.

Asking you for sources is not goal post moving. You can cry all you want, but ultimately if you can't actually source research that contradicts my earlier sources demonstrating pig's ability to form social bonds with humans, you're doing nothing but making a spectacle of yourself and wasting breath.
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"pig slaughterhouse footage"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVR7NjnMkIc&t=3193s&has_verified=1
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I love dogs, I would never eat one but that is part of their culture I believe.

People all worked up about dogs in china but gives 0 f**** that U.S does the same stuff to cows, chickens and pigs.

Frolex posted...

YokoGeri posted...

Why does how the animals were raised matter to the morality of torturing them? Again, if you wouldn't say it was acceptable to raise dogs from birth for slaughter, what's the point of raising this as an argument

Do you have justification for your position or not? Why would profit morally justify torture of other animals besides dogs?

I could see how someone could read that argument if they were illiterate. not what anyone in this topic has actually said though, unfortunately for you.

"Fuck everyone but the west" seems to be the factor here, since you don't seem to care much about the "hApPy HoRmOnEs" or smiles from animals that other cultures value.

Asking you for sources is not goal post moving. You can cry all you want, but ultimately if you can't actually source research that contradicts my earlier sources demonstrating pig's ability to form social bonds with humans, you're doing nothing but making a spectacle of yourself and wasting breath.

You don't answer a question with a question, it doesn't work that way. All you're doing is seeing my points, ignoring them and asking other stuff. It's dishonest.

About the part in bold:

1) Why are you doing the "hApPy HoRmOnEs" thing as if it were a dumbass concept? It's real.
2) That's the entire point, Einstein, the other animals don't get "hApPy HoRmOnEs" like dogs do when they see their owner, THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.

At least we've uncovered the real issue here, you're arguing from a cultural resentment perspective. Somehow you managed to view a story about dogs getting boiled alive as a east vs west thing

YokoGeri posted...

2) That's the entire point, Einstein, the other animals don't get "hApPy HoRmOnEs" like dogs do when they see their owner, THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.

Wrong yet again.

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/breaking-pigs-like-cuddles-too

I can't tell if your continual insistence on embarrassing yourself this badly is out of desperation, or that you actually enjoy it for some reason.
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Frolex posted...

YokoGeri posted...

2) That's the entire point, Einstein, the other animals don't get "hApPy HoRmOnEs" like dogs do when they see their owner, THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT.

Wrong yet again.

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/breaking-pigs-like-cuddles-too

I can't tell if your continual insistence on embarrassing yourself this badly is out of desperation, or that you actually enjoy it for some reason.

No one eats pet pigs. It's like comparing wolves and dogs. Wolf is ok to hunt, dog is not. Pig is ok to eat, pet pig is not

vocedelmorte posted...

No one eats pet pigs. It's like comparing wolves and dogs. Wolf is ok to hunt, dog is not. Pig is ok to eat, pet pig is not

So then you would be okay with the torture and slaughter of dogs bred for food?
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Frolex posted...

vocedelmorte posted...

No one eats pet pigs. It's like comparing wolves and dogs. Wolf is ok to hunt, dog is not. Pig is ok to eat, pet pig is not

So then you would be okay with the torture and slaughter of dogs bred for food?

I wouldn't be okay. But i would be desensitized of it, just how i desensitized from pigs slaughterhouses.
IF in China they had a dog farms, where they breed dogs for food. But they aren't having these farms.
There is a reason for this 'tradition', and it has to do with famines that China experienced in the past, where they would eat everything. They would eat human corpses too by the way, is this tradition also okay? Now there are no famines in China and everyone is wealthy enough to feed themselves without resorting to catching stray animals.
Now more Chinese view dogs as pets, and these tradition is dying off, so you really shouldn't be supporting it.

Holy shit Yoko Laylee got fucking deeded on! Someone call SVU!!
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vocedelmorte posted...

I wouldn't be okay. But i would be desensitized of it, just how i desensitized from pigs slaughterhouses.

That's fine, as long as you're recognizing you're making an emotional distinction here rather than a moral one.

vocedelmorte posted...

F in China they had a dog farms, where they breed dogs for food. But they aren't having these farms.
There is a reason for this 'tradition', and it has to do with famines that China experienced in the past, where they would eat everything. They would eat human corpses too by the way, is this tradition also okay? Now there are no famines in China and everyone is wealthy enough to feed themselves without resorting to catching stray animals.
Now more Chinese view dogs as pets, and these tradition is dying off, so you really shouldn't be supporting it.

I agree, tradition is not in itself a moral justification for an action. So then what does this to do morally justify the consumption of pigs and cows?
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"how dare you only advocate for dogs and cats, which are the primary species of pet in the West. you should be advocating for every animal, no matter what. i will smack the white meat of that poor chicken out of your mouth, mister! i have wagged my finger pretty hard at people in this thread, i can do so at you!"
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EverDownward posted...

"how dare you only advocate for dogs and cats, which are the primary species of pet in the West. you should be advocating for every animal, no matter what. i will smack the white meat of that poor chicken out of your mouth, mister! i have wagged my finger pretty hard at people in this thread, i can do so at you!"

because "fuck the west!"

Somebody should tell frolex that western tradition looks down on eating poop, he will dive right into the toilet

YokoGeri posted...

he will dive right into the toilet

I mean you're obviously not wrong, I did decide to respond to you in this topic
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Frolex posted...

YokoGeri posted...

he will dive right into the toilet

I mean you're obviously not wrong, I did decide to respond to you in this topic

So triggered lol.

You're mad you couldn't respond to ONE of my points huh? lol

YokoGeri posted...

You're mad you couldn't respond to ONE of my points huh? lol

maybe you need another 4 more hours to come up with a better insult
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The animals we eat shouldn't be tortured on the way to our plate, and dogs shouldn't be tortured on the way to theirs.

Easy