Poll of the Day > Transgenderism is no longer a Mental Disorder, per WHO...

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pionear
05/31/19 4:22:52 PM
#1:


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crazyisgood
05/31/19 4:24:53 PM
#2:


An example if we don't want it this way so it isn't
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Nade Duck
05/31/19 4:27:11 PM
#3:


eventually we'll get this mental disorder thing right.

or we'll go extinct and whatever species after us won't have so many ridiculous issues. or maybe they will and they won't be as dumb about it.
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CTLM
05/31/19 5:38:43 PM
#4:


That's too bad. They had it right the first time
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Lokarin
05/31/19 5:44:30 PM
#5:


How isn't it a disorder... it's disorder"ly".

I mean, it's great if it's normalized - there's no reason to shame people, but isn't anything that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I am not trying to be offensive, I'm legit asking. Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?
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Mead
05/31/19 6:12:20 PM
#6:


Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?
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CTLM
05/31/19 8:41:07 PM
#7:


Oh c'mon. I got moderated in this topic. I'm collecting moderations apparently
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qwerty107
06/01/19 12:29:06 AM
#8:


Mead posted...
Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?

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Valiant_Kaiser
06/01/19 12:44:08 AM
#9:


Lokarin posted...
How isn't it a disorder... it's disorder"ly".

I mean, it's great if it's normalized - there's no reason to shame people, but isn't anything that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I am not trying to be offensive, I'm legit asking. Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I think it's meaning they aren't batshit insane. It's acknowledging that it's a male brain in a female body, and vice versa.
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 12:44:28 AM
#10:


qwerty107 posted...
Mead posted...
Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?


how long until disorders aren't even acknowledged as being a thing?
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CacciatoPart3
06/01/19 12:44:50 AM
#11:


NightMareBunny posted...
qwerty107 posted...
Mead posted...
Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?


how long until disorders aren't even acknowledged as being a thing?

What an insightful and well-written post.
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 12:46:28 AM
#12:


Valiant_Kaiser posted...
Lokarin posted...
How isn't it a disorder... it's disorder"ly".

I mean, it's great if it's normalized - there's no reason to shame people, but isn't anything that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I am not trying to be offensive, I'm legit asking. Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I think it's meaning they aren't insane. It's acknowledging that it's a male brain in a female body, and vice versa.


does every person that has a disease/mental disorder have to be classified as crazy?

not every condition boils down to this person being a lunatic
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aHappySacka
06/01/19 12:48:48 AM
#13:


I sexually identify with needing to speak with your manager.
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Lokarin
06/01/19 12:58:20 AM
#14:


aHappySacka posted...
I sexually identify with needing to speak with your manager.


A, a Karensexual
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dioxxys
06/01/19 1:14:32 AM
#15:


Mead posted...
Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?

this
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PurpleLizard
06/01/19 1:45:13 AM
#16:


Valiant_Kaiser posted...
I think it's meaning they aren't batshit insane.


The extent to which some people will stigmatize mental illness in this debate is truly offputing.

It's acknowledging that it's a male brain in a female body, and vice versa.


Actually, the sexual dismorphisms displayed between male and female brains are not found in transgender peoples' autopsies ( male-to-female transwomen have gray matter ratios typical of men, for example, although some minor differences between the structure of the average transwoman's brain and the average cisman's brain have been noted).
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KJ StErOiDs
06/01/19 1:58:19 AM
#17:


Not surprised. I kind of thought this was already determined as it was.
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TheWitchMorgana
06/01/19 2:12:24 AM
#18:


A revised version of WHOs International Classification of Diseases (ICD-11) has changed gender identity disorder to gender incongruence more generally know as gender dysphoria which is now part of the chapter on sexual health. The now-dropped gender identity disorder had been included in the chapter on mental disorders. Gender incongruence in the updated manual is characterized as a marked incongruence between an individuals experienced/expressed gender and assigned sex at birth.

not really a removal so much as an update in terminology. i'm fine with this. gender dysphoria is already what the DSM calls it anyway
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Lokarin
06/01/19 2:20:28 AM
#19:


I still find the term 'gender assignment' when it comes to birth to be weird.

I mean, it is TECHNICALLY correct - the doctor does have to check a box on the birth certificate and that does count as an assignment...

But the phrase just gives me the mental images of babies being born neuter until the doctor plops some genets on them... as ridiculous as that sounds.

But can you imagine if brainscan tech comes along so far that if a baby is born with a weenie that the doctor can accurately put female on the cert?
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THEGODDAMNBATMA
06/01/19 2:25:28 AM
#20:


I believe something can only be a disorder if it actually causes mental harm. Therefore, trans people are not mentally ill. Not to say trans people can't get mental illnesses, many of them do, but not all of them.
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dioxxys
06/01/19 4:08:52 AM
#21:


THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...
I believe something can only be a disorder if it actually causes mental harm. Therefore, trans people are not mentally ill. Not to say trans people can't get mental illnesses, many of them do, but not all of them.

What do you mean of course it causes mental harm, they are constantly living feeling tortured because they feel like they were born in the wrong body.
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RoboXgp89
06/01/19 4:19:02 AM
#22:


dioxxys posted...
THEGODDAMNBATMA posted...
I believe something can only be a disorder if it actually causes mental harm. Therefore, trans people are not mentally ill. Not to say trans people can't get mental illnesses, many of them do, but not all of them.

What do you mean of course it causes mental harm, they are constantly living feeling tortured because they feel like they were born in the wrong body.


if it's not a disorder than they can't ask for funds to be provided for their surgeries
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TigerTycoon
06/01/19 4:23:07 AM
#23:


However, now playing video games too much is a mental disorder.
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zebatov
06/01/19 4:28:27 AM
#24:


Mods that got handed out in 261 are running free here and vice versa. Brutal. Goes to show the snowflakes run it over there.

Mead posted...
Isnt it a disorder by its very definition in that there is a disharmony between someones identity and the body they were born with?

zebatov posted...
"A disorder is a disruption to regular bodily structure and function."

Hmmm..............

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Amazingspiderman1
06/01/19 4:38:29 AM
#26:


CTLM posted...
Oh c'mon. I got moderated in this topic. I'm collecting moderations apparently


Join the club. I just gave up on trying to be PC
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RoboXgp89
06/01/19 4:46:41 AM
#27:


Just be npc
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Kungfu Kenobi
06/01/19 7:17:35 AM
#28:


Lokarin posted...
But can you imagine if brainscan tech comes along so far that if a baby is born with a weenie that the doctor can accurately put female on the cert?


That's probably where we need to get to, all things considered. I agree with not calling transgender a mental disorder, because frankly we don't know WHAT it is. It could be endocrinological, it could have some intersex component that we haven't found the dimorphic bio-markers for.
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PK_Spam
06/01/19 7:46:37 AM
#29:


You REALLY cant just leave people alone and let them be happy with a choice that hurts no one, can you?
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Lil_Bit83
06/01/19 9:43:38 AM
#30:


Good to know and took far too long to deal with.
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RoboXgp89
06/01/19 9:46:39 AM
#31:


PK_Spam posted...
You REALLY cant just leave people alone and let them be happy with a choice that hurts no one, can you?


this topic can't even be properly debated on this "open" website
you guys would start jumping out windows if we posted some surgery videos, some mental health statistics
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Lil_Bit83
06/01/19 9:47:21 AM
#32:


Lokarin posted...
How isn't it a disorder... it's disorder"ly".

I mean, it's great if it's normalized - there's no reason to shame people, but isn't anything that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I am not trying to be offensive, I'm legit asking. Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?


Look at all the dumb sometimes horrifying shit that people who were different had to suffer under the "disorder label" in the distant past and ask yourself that question again. Prejudice and ignorance decided that this sort of thing was a disorder, not sound medical logic.
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RoboXgp89
06/01/19 9:56:24 AM
#33:


Lil_Bit83 posted...
Lokarin posted...
How isn't it a disorder... it's disorder"ly".

I mean, it's great if it's normalized - there's no reason to shame people, but isn't anything that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?

I am not trying to be offensive, I'm legit asking. Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?


Look at all the dumb sometimes horrifying shit that people who were different had to suffer under the "disorder label" in the distant past and ask yourself that question again. Prejudice and ignorance decided that this sort of thing was a disorder, not sound medical logic.


except most transexuals recognize gender dysphoria and use it as a means to get health coverage
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_AdjI_
06/01/19 10:07:27 AM
#34:


I mean, if the primary means of treatment is physical, it makes sense to not call it a mental disorder. The treatment approach acknowledges that the problem is with the body, not the mind. It may shift back to mental if future developments in treatment start favouring cognitive approaches. It may not. Only time will tell, so everyone should just shut up and let science do its job.

Lokarin posted...
Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?


It's abnormal (a term which carries far more pejorative connotations than it ought to, given how statistically objective it is), but in order to qualify as a disorder, an aberration has to have a significant negative impact on the person and those around them. Heterochromia, for example, is very much abnormal, but nobody would really call it a disorder because it's generally not going to hurt those people.

Of course, there's some room for argument about classifying something as a disorder when negative effects arise from how other people respond to the condition, rather than anything intrinsic. If, for example, it were common for heterochromic people to be lynched in the streets, one could argue that heterochromia would qualify as a disorder, and declassify it as such if society progressed to a point where that was no longer true. This is basically what happened with homosexuality between the DSM3 and DSM4.
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Krazy_Kirby
06/01/19 11:26:38 AM
#35:


if someone thinks they are really santa, does that mean they actually are?

no, it means they are crazy
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SkynyrdRocker
06/01/19 11:37:43 AM
#36:


I have bipolar disorder. Can we declassify it as a mental illness? I don't want to deal with stigma
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Mead
06/01/19 1:21:12 PM
#37:


Krazy_Kirby posted...
if someone thinks they are really santa, does that mean they actually are?

no, it means they are crazy


Identifying as a gender is hardly the same as identifying as a specific individual
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TheWorstPoster
06/01/19 1:24:30 PM
#38:


Meanwhile, GAMING is a disorder.

The WHO is a joke.
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wwinterj25
06/01/19 1:27:01 PM
#39:


Ok I believe you TC.
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chaosbowser
06/01/19 1:42:51 PM
#40:


_AdjI_ posted...
I mean, if the primary means of treatment is physical, it makes sense to not call it a mental disorder. The treatment approach acknowledges that the problem is with the body, not the mind. It may shift back to mental if future developments in treatment start favouring cognitive approaches. It may not. Only time will tell, so everyone should just shut up and let science do its job.

Lokarin posted...
Is something that's not part of the median/mean a disorder by default?


It's abnormal (a term which carries far more pejorative connotations than it ought to, given how statistically objective it is), but in order to qualify as a disorder, an aberration has to have a significant negative impact on the person and those around them. Heterochromia, for example, is very much abnormal, but nobody would really call it a disorder because it's generally not going to hurt those people.

Of course, there's some room for argument about classifying something as a disorder when negative effects arise from how other people respond to the condition, rather than anything intrinsic. If, for example, it were common for heterochromic people to be lynched in the streets, one could argue that heterochromia would qualify as a disorder, and declassify it as such if society progressed to a point where that was no longer true. This is basically what happened with homosexuality between the DSM3 and DSM4.


I mean gender dysphoria was always more complicated than a mental disorder. I would argue the problem though is entirely psychiatric in nature. Functionally speaking, no other body system is working incorrectly. The negative impacts of it are mental not physical health. Which is the realm of psychiatry. You physically treat depression with drugs. That is just as physical as giving a gender dysphoric MtF estrogen. The purpose of this renaming is basically political. Transgender doesn't want to be associated with mental health problems as a stigma despite a large portion of the transgender community not having gender dysphoria. I'm annoyed by this change because its a change that doesn't make a ton of sense.
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 1:53:28 PM
#41:


SkynyrdRocker posted...
I have bipolar disorder. Can we declassify it as a mental illness? I don't want to deal with stigma


i think this is the problem we have now it can be a slippery slope from here on out

when something that's an anomaly occurs in someone it's typically referred to as such

yes there can be stigma's with such a label but it's not exactly easy to try and say feeling like you were born the wrong gender is normal

when some people are just hotwired differently than the average person

but for whatever reason people think a disorder means that person is some deranged psychopath and is off their rocker

when did we get to the point where all disorders mean said person is a crazy person?

it's that kind of mindset that leads to people not wanting disorders to be classified as such
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Mead
06/01/19 1:55:47 PM
#42:


sLiPpErY sLoPe
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wwinterj25
06/01/19 2:06:41 PM
#43:


NightMareBunny posted...
when did we get to the point where all disorders mean said person is a crazy person?


It means they are not normal functioning. Although I believe everyone has some form of a mental disorder anyway so what exactly is normal?
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 2:07:59 PM
#44:


just because someone has a condition/disorder doesn't mean they are a lunatic...people need to get that through their heads

but i doubt people will
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TheWitchMorgana
06/01/19 2:21:31 PM
#45:


NightMareBunny posted...
just because someone has a condition/disorder doesn't mean they are a lunatic...people need to get that through their heads

but i doubt people will

i am not really sure who is saying that? updates in terminology and diagnostic criteria happen all the time, in order to make the path to treatment and proper care more accessible. transgender care is particularly in need of this as it moves to an informed consent model and requires the most straightforward criteria to obtain a diagnosis (which is the path to care for most trans individuals). nothing to do with being a "lunatic", it's just how these things work
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 2:53:21 PM
#46:


TheWitchMorgana posted...
NightMareBunny posted...
just because someone has a condition/disorder doesn't mean they are a lunatic...people need to get that through their heads

but i doubt people will

i am not really sure who is saying that? updates in terminology and diagnostic criteria happen all the time, in order to make the path to treatment and proper care more accessible. transgender care is particularly in need of this as it moves to an informed consent model and requires the most straightforward criteria to obtain a diagnosis (which is the path to care for most trans individuals). nothing to do with being a "lunatic", it's just how these things work


that seems to be the stigma associated with disorders/conditions I'm saying and is the main reason some people don't want to be classified as having a disorder because people look at them like they are crazy
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CacciatoPart3
06/01/19 2:55:56 PM
#47:


TheWorstPoster posted...
Meanwhile, GAMING is a disorder.

The WHO is a joke.

Do you really think that you should be criticizing that decision, given your history?
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Muscles
06/01/19 3:05:23 PM
#48:


Krazy_Kirby posted...
if someone thinks they are really santa, does that mean they actually are?

no, it means they are crazy

That's not the same thing at all

You CAN have a brain of a different sex than your body. While there is much more in common with guys and girls brains than there are differences, there are still differences
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vocedelmorte
06/01/19 3:25:45 PM
#49:


It's literally disorder, because they have to undergo a surgery to make it right
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NightMareBunny
06/01/19 3:29:52 PM
#50:


vocedelmorte posted...
It's literally disorder, because they have to undergo a surgery to make it right


and even then there's a chance things still won't feel right

i can't imagine most of these surgeries are safe or go off without any unseen consequences
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Zareth
06/01/19 5:29:42 PM
#51:


Gender Body Dysphoria is absolutely a mental disorder, that is treated with HRT and surgery.
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