Poll of the Day > I wish people would be honest about the "benefits" of abortion.

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shipwreckers
05/26/19 1:09:14 AM
#1:


Statistically speaking, the legitimate "MEDICAL" needs for abortion (e.g. to save the life of the mother) are quite rare. Same goes for "incest" and "rape" arguments.

https://www.guttmacher.org/perspectives50/womens-reasons-having-abortion

*From the Article / Research Study*
"Researchers from the Guttmacher Institute compared quantitative data from 2004 and 1987 surveys, and found that the main reasons women cited for ending pregnancies were the same in both: Having a baby would dramatically interfere with their education, work or ability to care for their dependents, or they could not afford a baby at the time."

In other words, based on the actual statistics, the REAL "rights" women are fighting for in all this..., is the right to fuck anyone at any time with zero consequences or responsibilities. Heaven forbid women become economically or socially inconvenienced.

But hey..., condoms are overrated. Just let yourself be FREE, and don't forget to book that Planned Parenthood consultation!

YAY FOR "WOMEN'S HEALTH!"
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jramirez23
05/26/19 1:12:02 AM
#2:


Sex education might not be as prevalent in some places so they might not know about birth control methods.
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shipwreckers
05/26/19 1:19:35 AM
#3:


jramirez23 posted...
Sex education might not be as prevalent in some places so they might not know about birth control methods.


That's a fair point, but most people at the age of consent DO know how babies are made. With the exception of those (statistically rare) cases of rape, you have the option to, you know...., stop fucking.

Which brings me back to the OP. Women don't want to stop fucking. Because it's kinda fun.
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Sahuagin
05/26/19 1:23:33 AM
#4:


shipwreckers posted...
the REAL "rights" women are fighting for in all this...

bodily rights? you don't have the right to hook your body up to someone else's, even if it's your mother, and even if your life depends on it.
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Mead
05/26/19 1:26:34 AM
#5:


The greatest health benefit is no baby
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shipwreckers
05/26/19 1:28:58 AM
#6:


Mead posted...
The greatest health benefit is no baby


Agreed. Responsibility is highly unhealthy. College gave me ulcers, and my occupation almost killed me once. I can't imagine what a child would do to me.
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Yellow
05/26/19 1:32:57 AM
#7:


People don't give a shit about people who care more about an ancient book than science.

Science says the neural system doesn't even fire until at least 20 weeks. Before then they can't be considered anything remotely intelligent. Until "pro-lifers" accept that, they are a complete joke.
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dainkinkaide
05/26/19 1:46:01 AM
#8:


shipwreckers posted...
But hey..., condoms are overrated. Just let yourself be FREE, and don't forget to book that Planned Parenthood consultation!

I mean, on average, of 100 people who go to Planned Parenthood, 34 of them will be there for contraceptives.

Whereas 3 of them will be there for abortion services.
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dragon504
05/26/19 1:49:23 AM
#9:


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JSebastianBach
05/26/19 1:51:37 AM
#10:


I get being against abortion but this topic is absurd and sexist. You mock it being a women's health issue but the way you're acting kind of just demonstrates why it's viewed as such:

- The dumb narrative that it's some fun, easy and attractive option for women, why is this a thing? It's really the complete opposite.
- Putting rape and incest in quotes. Okay, I get that some dudes don't understand the concept of legal consent, but incest? You can prove that with hard evidence dude... oh wait I forgot to mention a bunch of other scare quotes
- The talk of women being inconvenienced. Sure sounds like you're either saying that it should just be the woman's responsibility to care for the child, or that you don't think the fathers ever want an abortion too. Neither one is good.
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CarrieChan
05/26/19 1:53:56 AM
#11:


Less crime is a benefit.
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BlackScythe0
05/26/19 1:56:05 AM
#12:


Imagine being someone who attempts to argue that abortion is an easy decision.
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JSebastianBach
05/26/19 2:00:55 AM
#13:


BlackScythe0 posted...
Imagine being someone who attempts to argue that abortion is an easy decision.


You gotta love the cognitive dissonance when people try to make this argument. Abortions are so intense and absolutely horrific and the worst thing ever, yet they're also an easy thing you just go do on your lunch break every other week
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shipwreckers
05/26/19 2:03:51 AM
#14:


dainkinkaide posted...
shipwreckers posted...
But hey..., condoms are overrated. Just let yourself be FREE, and don't forget to book that Planned Parenthood consultation!

I mean, on average, of 100 people who go to Planned Parenthood, 34 of them will be there for contraceptives.

Whereas 3 of them will be there for abortion services.


That's true too. Sex Ed has come a long way, and the numbers are improving. But with the 50+ million abortions that occur each year, that's a BIG "3%"

https://www.snopes.com/news/2019/01/03/abortion-leading-cause-of-death/

Also, the whole "Abortion is only 3% of what Planned Parenthood does" argument may be a bit misleading in its own right. WP did a pretty thorough article on it last year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/08/12/for-planned-parenthood-abortion-stats-3-percent-and-94-percent-are-both-misleading

But, numbers aside, you've gotta respect the efforts people are making to AVOID unplanned pregnancies in the first place. Nobody's knocking that.
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TheWitchMorgana
05/26/19 2:15:41 AM
#15:


yeah abortions arent an in and out thing. its like a three day process, and then after that your body is still full of pregnancy hormones, so it takes months to fully get over your body still acting like its pregnant

women should just stop banging is absurd in its sexism and oversimplification of the topic
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Zareth
05/26/19 3:59:52 AM
#16:


dainkinkaide posted...
shipwreckers posted...
But hey..., condoms are overrated. Just let yourself be FREE, and don't forget to book that Planned Parenthood consultation!

I mean, on average, of 100 people who go to Planned Parenthood, 34 of them will be there for contraceptives.

Whereas 3 of them will be there for abortion services.

What about the other 63?
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Sardanapallus
05/26/19 4:08:58 AM
#17:


shipwreckers posted...
is the right to fuck anyone at any time with zero consequences or responsibilities


Sounds good to me. Let's get that right for them written in stone and then we can start working removing the ability of women to use babies solely to handcuff men for 18 years.
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darkknight109
05/26/19 4:10:44 AM
#18:


shipwreckers posted...
In other words, based on the actual statistics, the REAL "rights" women are fighting for in all this..., is the right to fuck anyone at any time with zero consequences or responsibilities. Heaven forbid women become economically or socially inconvenienced.

Query - why are you singling out the women?

I mean, men like to fuck things with zero repercussions too, yet these abortion bills are curiously silent on them. If your angle is going to be "the state needs to force people to take responsibility for their actions," that should apply to both parties, no? Shouldn't the father have to pay half of all medical expenses incurred by the mother (including if he doesn't want the child, but she does)? Shouldn't he also have to partially recompense her for any time taken off work? And, of course, he should automatically be billed for child support until the child turns 18.

And if you're not in favour of rape/incest exceptions for women, they shouldn't apply to men either. All of the above should apply regardless of how the women got pregnant ("She put a hole in the condom? Oh well, too bad for you, better get the chequebook ready!"). If the man wants to contest that he's the father, the expenses of the paternity test will be borne entirely by him pending their results. Oh, and failing to meet any of these obligations should result in criminal charges, the same way that an abortion is supposed to result in criminal charges for the mother. That seems eminently fair, no?

BTW, you're conflating two different issues - the rape/incest issue is not one that is used to justify greater pro-choice arguments; it's just that forcing women who were raped or the victims of incest to carry and care for their rapist's baby, typically without any external support beyond what a pregnant woman usually receives, is exceptionally cruel. But the greater pro-choice argument is, and always has been, that a woman should be free to do what she will with her own body, regardless of whether you agree with her choice or not.
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ClarkDuke
05/26/19 4:13:20 AM
#19:


Mead posted...
The greatest health benefit is no baby

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ASlaveObeys
05/26/19 8:30:06 AM
#20:


I mostly don't give a fuck what other people are doing to themselves.
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RedPixel
05/26/19 9:06:38 AM
#21:


I used to be pro-choice, but after hearing about John Podesta's "special walnut sauce," I'm not sure what I am.

I have told all past girlfriends that I'm PERSONALLY pro-life in my immediate life as it affects me and only me, but holy shit--

Seriously, look up the walnut sauce reference on wikileaks. I'm not spewing right wing pro life bullshit (cause wikileaks is a trigger word that can set people off), but the stuff some of these people do with dead babies is fucking gut wrenching.

I'm in between pro choice and pro life because I'm against murder, but at the same time I don't think the government should be able to tell women what they can do with their bodies. I've decided I'm neutral on the issue.
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The_tall_midget
05/26/19 10:22:03 AM
#22:


Everyone who isn't dishonest knows that rape and accidental pregnancies account for a TINY, insignificant amount of the total of actual pregnancies.

Saying that society HAS to offer abortion services due to some pregnancies being "unwilling" would be equivalent to me saying that a small portion of people who fall from windows are accidental, thus society is OBLIGATED to offer medical services to anyone who jumps out a window.

And I wouldn't go as far as to say it was done so that women could sleep around, but like most feminist causes, the ultimate goal was not so much as to give women more freedom and liberties, but simply to remove even more accountability for women's actions. If a man impregnante's a woman, he has no say in anything and ultimately usually has to pay child support (BECAUZ A MAN IS ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR MAKING A CHILD). A woman who doesn't to be a mother? Man has no say in it (CAUZ A MAN ISN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CHILD. See the double standard and stupidity? In case 1, you have a penis and thus are held accountable. In case 2, you have a vagina and aren't held accountable. But it's kind of normal since for thousand years men have white knighted for female, so a large portion of men still refuse to hold women accountable for their actions to the level men are. THOSE are the real sexists you have to be careful about because they do not see women as equal to men and refuse to give them the responsibilities that comes with equal rights and privilege.

See this clip to understand this gist of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8" data-time="&start=22

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AnnoyedCops
05/26/19 10:56:44 AM
#23:


The_tall_midget posted...

Saying that society HAS to offer abortion services due to some pregnancies being "unwilling" would be equivalent to me saying that a small portion of people who fall from windows are accidental, thus society is OBLIGATED to offer medical services to anyone who jumps out a window.

Does it really sound ridiculous to you to have society provide medical assistance to suicide attempt / accident survivors? Sounds like a good idea to me.
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BeerOnTap
05/26/19 11:25:25 AM
#24:


Sahuagin posted...
shipwreckers posted...
the REAL "rights" women are fighting for in all this...

bodily rights? you don't have the right to hook your body up to someone else's, even if it's your mother, and even if your life depends on it.


So that makes it okay to have someone to reach into your body with forceps, pulverize a developed human baby with a heartbeat into pieces, vacuum out said pieces, and discard them like theyre trash (or sell those parts for cash as planned parenthood was caught doing)?
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Sahuagin
05/26/19 11:36:58 AM
#25:


BeerOnTap posted...
So that makes it okay to...

exact implementation of the procedure is a different argument
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The_tall_midget
05/26/19 12:44:43 PM
#26:


AnnoyedCops posted...

Does it really sound ridiculous to you to have society provide medical assistance to suicide attempt / accident survivors? Sounds like a good idea to me.


Society offering a service and idiots DEMANDING that it be offered is two different thing.

Is it crazy that society offers a service? No. Is society obligated to offer the service? No.

The problem with sjw's, Marxists, feminists, and socialists, is that they believe that society is under obligation to offer all services to every imbecile who has decided to be irresponsible with their bodies/lives under the pretext that a few TINY amount of said accidents were accidental/forced. Strong and independent indeed. I demand that you offer me abortion! I demand that you pay for my student loans! I demand welfare! I demand affirmative action! I demand safe spaces!

You aren't in a position to demand fucking anything. Make better choices.
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LinkPizza
05/26/19 1:00:41 PM
#27:


What about Men? They are the ones putting the baby in? Should they be held as responsible as the women are?

Or are you saying straight couples should only have sex to reproduce?

The_tall_midget posted...
Saying that society HAS to offer abortion services due to some pregnancies being "unwilling"

Id rather pay for that once then for a kid somebody didnt want for the next 18 years, personally. Other people would probably agree... People like spending less money, if possible...
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BlackScythe0
05/26/19 1:56:12 PM
#28:


The_tall_midget posted...
AnnoyedCops posted...

Does it really sound ridiculous to you to have society provide medical assistance to suicide attempt / accident survivors? Sounds like a good idea to me.


Society offering a service and idiots DEMANDING that it be offered is two different thing.

Is it crazy that society offers a service? No. Is society obligated to offer the service? No.

The problem with sjw's, Marxists, feminists, and socialists, is that they believe that society is under obligation to offer all services to every imbecile who has decided to be irresponsible with their bodies/lives under the pretext that a few TINY amount of said accidents were accidental/forced. Strong and independent indeed. I demand that you offer me abortion! I demand that you pay for my student loans! I demand welfare! I demand affirmative action! I demand safe spaces!

You aren't in a position to demand fucking anything. Make better choices.


And you aren't in a position to make decisions for people. The arrogance you display is astounding.

You can't ban abortion you can only ban safe abortion and there is no rational reason to do so.

Your denial of what makes us human and our history is impossible for me to understand.
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Mead
05/26/19 1:59:45 PM
#29:


You could power a small lamp with the amount of anger schmen expresses on this board
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Hop103
05/26/19 2:53:12 PM
#30:


That's not a good excuse to have an abortion. That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences, not an issue of being a victim of a horrendous act or health being in danger, in which are both actual good reasons to have an abortion.
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Mead
05/26/19 2:59:56 PM
#31:


pErSoNaL ReSpOnSiBiLiTy
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ChaosAzeroth
05/26/19 3:03:18 PM
#32:


Hop103 posted...
That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences,


So what consequences is the impregnating party suffering here?
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Zikten
05/26/19 3:04:50 PM
#33:


Sahuagin posted...
you don't have the right to hook your body up to someone else's, even if it's your mother

Actually I disagree but that's because I believe you are her son or daughter the moment your concieved
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ChaosAzeroth
05/26/19 3:11:57 PM
#34:


Zikten posted...
Sahuagin posted...
you don't have the right to hook your body up to someone else's, even if it's your mother

Actually I disagree but that's because I believe you are her son or daughter the moment your concieved


Want to start with it's not that I don't respect your feelings or something, but I don't personally agree honestly.

See, given the amount of natural child loss I can't really see it that way. There's a reason why pretty much everyone I know say wait at least until the second month to announce it. Heard a nurse who teaches pregnancy classes town over flat out say that the first 8-12 weeks are completely 'in god's hands' as she put it. It doesn't matter what someone does, things happen and it doesn't mean that the person did anything wrong if they miscarry. I feel like to see a fetus as already your son our daughter all the way is tenuous at best early on, from the moment of conception is definitely too soon IMO.

On top of the fact I don't think it's my right to tell other people what to do with their bodies. But that's a personal thing there I guess to be fair.
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Zikten
05/26/19 3:13:55 PM
#35:


Well yea. I don't go around preaching about it. I usually don't even think about abortions. But I just can't get over thinking it's like a parent betraying their child. I will probably always be uneasy with the concept. It just feels wrong to me. But i will never tell someone they can't do it.
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ChaosAzeroth
05/26/19 3:17:37 PM
#36:


Zikten posted...
Well yea. I don't go around preaching about it. I usually don't even think about abortions. But I just can't get over thinking it's like a parent betraying their child. I will probably always be uneasy with the concept. It just feels wrong to me. But i will never tell someone they can't do it.


That's absolutely more than fair. I don't have any issue with not agreeing with/liking abortion personally, it's not that. I'm just used to that being used against people. Judgement, condemnation, disdain.

I'm not really used to people being that reasonable. I'm gonna go sit in the corner now and think about that for a bit.
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LinkPizza
05/26/19 3:51:06 PM
#37:


ChaosAzeroth posted...
Hop103 posted...
That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences,


So what consequences is the impregnating party suffering here?

I feel the consequences are being forced to have a baby. Which seems like a weird consequence... And will cost everybody money...

Zikten posted...
Sahuagin posted...
you don't have the right to hook your body up to someone else's, even if it's your mother

Actually I disagree but that's because I believe you are her son or daughter the moment your concieved

What about surrogates? In that case, the surrogate agreed. But that does mean the baby is hooked-up to someone whos not their mom...
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_AdjI_
05/26/19 4:12:31 PM
#38:


shipwreckers posted...
But hey..., condoms are overrated.


Condoms are overrated. With typical use, you can expect to see ~15 pregnancies a year for every 100 sexually active women using them as their only method of birth control. That is very much not a trivial number.

The_tall_midget posted...
Saying that society HAS to offer abortion services


If allowed, society will offer abortion services. Nobody really has to enforce their availability, just not make them illegal. There will still be areas that end up being "abortion deserts," so to speak, particularly in highly-religious areas, but so long as you don't prohibit a supply from arising to meet the demand, the demand will be met.
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BlackScythe0
05/26/19 4:58:01 PM
#39:


Hop103 posted...
That's not a good excuse to have an abortion. That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences, not an issue of being a victim of a horrendous act or health being in danger, in which are both actual good reasons to have an abortion.


Consequences?

This is insane. Is this some sort of vindictive "the slut didn't have sex with me so fuck her!"?
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ChaosAzeroth
05/26/19 5:32:23 PM
#40:


LinkPizza posted...
I feel the consequences are being forced to have a baby. Which seems like a weird consequence... And will cost everybody money...


That's for the impregnated, not the one who did the impregnating though.

BlackScythe0 posted...
Consequences?

This is insane. Is this some sort of vindictive "the slut didn't have sex with me so f*** her!"?


Yeah, I don't agree with the consequences angle, but I'm curious what consequences the one who put the baby in there get. Kinda takes them too.

Someone wants to argue about responsibility and consequences, I'm curious why they're on one party.
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Hop103
05/26/19 5:38:37 PM
#41:


BlackScythe0 posted...
Hop103 posted...
That's not a good excuse to have an abortion. That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences, not an issue of being a victim of a horrendous act or health being in danger, in which are both actual good reasons to have an abortion.


Consequences?

This is insane. Is this some sort of vindictive "the slut didn't have sex with me so fuck her!"?


Nah, it's more like think before having sex.
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Mead
05/26/19 5:41:06 PM
#42:


Hop103 posted...
BlackScythe0 posted...
Hop103 posted...
That's not a good excuse to have an abortion. That's an issue of personal responsibility and thus have to suffer the consequences, not an issue of being a victim of a horrendous act or health being in danger, in which are both actual good reasons to have an abortion.


Consequences?

This is insane. Is this some sort of vindictive "the slut didn't have sex with me so fuck her!"?


Nah, it's more like think before having sex.


And if ya dont then just get an abortion

Freedom
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_AdjI_
05/26/19 5:51:14 PM
#43:


I really have to wonder what practical value these people see in the "consequences" and "responsibility" they're preaching. Even getting away from the questions of bodily autonomy and personal freedom and the like, I just don't see what they're trying to achieve.
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Jen0125
05/26/19 6:13:37 PM
#44:


I wish men would all just get reversible vasectomies as teenagers since they're so fucking worried about abortion.
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Jen0125
05/26/19 6:14:20 PM
#45:


And by the way, no one needs as "excuse" to have an abortion. It's none of your fucking business.
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ChaosAzeroth
05/26/19 7:12:02 PM
#46:


Jen0125 posted...
And by the way, no one needs as "excuse" to have an abortion. It's none of your fucking business.


I'm usually a lot milder than this but...
I felt the need to quote this.
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LinkPizza
05/26/19 7:23:45 PM
#47:


Jen0125 posted...
I wish men would all just get reversible vasectomies as teenagers since they're so fucking worried about abortion.

It is true that most vasectomies can be reversed. So, that would be one way to avoid it. Though, they could lie about having it done... But it is an idea to consider... Especially with men who want to be scum and cheat on their wives with other women...

Jen0125 posted...
And by the way, no one needs as "excuse" to have an abortion. It's none of your fucking business.

This is also very true...
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Kyuubi4269
05/26/19 7:48:40 PM
#48:


Jen0125 posted...
I wish men would all just get reversible vasectomies as teenagers since they're so fucking worried about abortion.

If it was reliably reversible, I'd be all over that.
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LinkPizza
05/26/19 7:53:54 PM
#49:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Jen0125 posted...
I wish men would all just get reversible vasectomies as teenagers since they're so fucking worried about abortion.

If it was reliably reversible, I'd be all over that.

Yeah. I heard that its a much more complicated surgery than the vasectomy itself...
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Kyuubi4269
05/26/19 7:54:57 PM
#50:


LinkPizza posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Jen0125 posted...
I wish men would all just get reversible vasectomies as teenagers since they're so fucking worried about abortion.

If it was reliably reversible, I'd be all over that.

Yeah. I heard that its a much more complicated surgery than the vasectomy itself...

If you've ever sewn up jeans after you bust them, it's like that.

But most repairs are.
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