Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 483: "America's Finest" Nick Aldis

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PrivateBiscuit1
05/23/19 10:43:46 AM
#403:


Tom Bombadil posted...
seems like something somebody might be into if they're gonna do that kinda thing?

I was going to say, if you're doing that sort of deviancy, there are cases where people prefer their victims to be conscious.

Also, I forgot to mention that Aleistar Black actually didn't request to not go to Saudi Arabia, but he is not allowed to go because some of his tattoos are religious and could be offensive to those in Saudi Arabia.
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Lopen
05/23/19 10:52:25 AM
#404:


I'm not saying it couldn't have happened just that there are a lot of little details that seem convenient for making the story stronger (not just in that part-- for instance the part where she is told not to train and then tries to train anyway feels too convenient too) that just make it a bit difficult for me to take at face value, especially considering the source of the story. I'm sure some of it is true, though, otherwise why even start it.

But yeah that's why I didn't care enough to argue it, and still don't. Just saying that I'm giving WWE the benefit of some doubt there-- they have plenty enough tangible stuff to think they're super scummy for so blindly accepting all the details in her story as truth doesn't really change much for me anyway.
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NBIceman
05/23/19 7:59:52 PM
#405:


So, I've been seeing some polarizing reactions, here and elsewhere, to the idea that AEWs going to have a very sports-oriented presentation up to and including win/loss records. A lot of folks seem to think this wont work, saying its either actively oppositional to the fundamentals of pro wrestling and/or that the average fan simply wont care.

I'm a sports fan and pretty big stat geek like Tony Khan, so I myself am very excited for the idea, and Cody himself said that he doesnt necessarily see it as a cornerstone. That, to me, indicates that itll be used more as a supplement to storylines than something that theyre all going to completely revolve around.

To that end, Ive thrown together some thoughts and examples on how I think stats and W/L records can and might be used to enhance the eventual AEW product without taking it over. If nothing else I hope it'll convince people that it isn't total wrestling anathema.

In-Ring Work
- Something Ive seen fairly frequently on wrestling forums like this one is that fans would like to see more matches end on moves that arent finishers. AEW is in a good position to push that sort of idea. Imagine an inclusion in a Tale of the Tape-style graphic to the effect of: Kenny Omega wins 70% of the time with the OWA, 15% with V-Trigger, 10% with Croyts Wrath, 5% with another move
- Maybe Scorpio Sky takes the pin in 70% of SCUs losses. Over time, their opponents might try to specifically isolate Sky in matches against SCU more so than his partners.
- How someone loses matches could become especially important. If the Best Friends lose an abnormally high percentage of matches by submission, maybe the Bucks, for example, try to target Trent and Chucks backs in setup for their Sharpshooters instead of going for the Meltzer Driver as much
- Match length could come into play. If, say, older wrestlers like CIMA or Jericho have a poor record in matches that go over 20 minutes, other talent that would normally wrestle at a higher pace might try to slow things down against them

Storylines
- Streaks. Ive seen a ton of people wondering how AEW will manage to cycle talent in and out of being pushed with W/L records; specifically, how can you ever push a former low-card guy if his record sucks? Well, the great thing about stats is that they can be manipulated to suit a narrative. A 22-28 record may look a little rough for someone making a run at a midcard belt, but its not that hard to insert a mention that hes won 9 in a row and 12 of his last 13 or something like that. You can even combine that with other ideas here to really sell it (for example, hes using a new finisher thats particularly effective).
- Similarly, itd be a good way to ease wrestlers returning from injury back in. Maybe Kylie Rae has to vacate the womens title after a shoulder injury and then the next title program gets really hot so they dont want to insert her back in immediately upon return. Have her go 2-5 in her first seven matches or whatever and sell it as her being rusty or still slightly hurt, then let her start winning again when its convenient and sell it as her finally being fully healthy
- Keep fans invested in low-card wrestlers by implying their jobs may be in danger. Someone in MMA with a terrible W/L record is in danger of never getting booked again, and that could work here, too. EVOLVE used to do something similar - I remember it with Jason Kincaid specifically. Hed lose a lot of matches, commentary would sell that he may lose his booking for good if it were to continue, and then hed win a couple of opener 4-ways to buy himself some time. Someone like Brandon Cutler, a family man, can draw a lot of support from that sort of thing.
- Maybe Darby Allin has a terrible record against wrestlers considered high-flyers. Hes going into a title match for the midcard belt against Sammy Guevara. Boom, instant story.
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NBIceman
05/23/19 7:59:55 PM
#406:


- Im not advocating for this one, Id actually hate it, but Im mentioning it anyway because I can see where it might intrigue some people. If you want to have a big babyface vs heel authority figure angle, itd be as simple as the authority figure giving title shots to wrestlers with worse records than the face.

Tournament Seeding
- This kind of thing is simple. If they want to have an annual tournament for determining a title shot at a big show, use W/L records to seed the competitors. Have byes for the top wrestlers and everything.
- Along the same lines, use records to determine entry order for a big Battle Royal.
- Use it for novelty tournaments. For example, maybe we get a tag team tournament where they rank all wrestlers based on record and then pair up the opposite ends. #1 teams with #32, #2 with #31, and so on. Is it better to have a star and a scrub or do #s 16 and 17 end up dominating?
- This is probably way too out there for the general audience, but Id love it. Along the lines of the tournament seeding, just go full SPORTS with it. Bill the big tournament as playoffs and then reset all the W/L records after the calendar year-ending show as if starting a new season. That sort of thing would make it even easier to push new talent - no one will remember Jungle Boys .250 win percentage season if he ends season X on a high note and dominates season Y from the very beginning.

Miscellaneous Flavor
These are just the sort of nuggets that you can toss in on commentary every once in a while, often in combination with some of these other ideas, to enhance things a tiny bit more. Extra stats that reveal something about some wrestler or another. Mention that Sonny Kiss wins 25% of his matches via roll-up and pretty soon youll have people reacting to every roll-up he does. Private Party makes the most average tags per match and their opponents, Evans and Angelico, make the fewest. Jimmy Havoc spends the most amount of time in his matches outside the ring across the company. Fenix has a 70% success rate on moves from the top rope. And on and on and on. Some of it may be interesting to certain fans, maybe a lot of it wont. But I dont think itll overwhelm the broadcast to the point that Excaliburs just sitting there reading off a stat sheet.
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StealThisSheen
05/23/19 8:04:00 PM
#407:


W/L records make me much more interested because I like the availability of those kind of stats for flavor/such

That's something I always wished was in the Universe mode of the WWE games
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scarletspeed7
05/23/19 8:07:22 PM
#408:


In my TEW files, I've always kept win-loss records for this sort of reason, but I've never been detail-oriented in this way. I'm pretty excited about the potential for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. Sports themselves use stats to create narratives just like the ones you described, and it helps add meaning to monotonous seasonal games in virtually every sport.

There are of course a couple places where it could go south. One bad type of angle by the way would be the break-up of a tag tram based on one of them eating the pin more than the other. I feel like that is one place where usage of stats could be used in a way that hurts a storyline or makes the idea of stats feel cheap.
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Maniac64
05/23/19 9:44:41 PM
#409:


You just have to reset the win loss records every year and that will help with people changing positions on the card from year to year.
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Tom Bombadil
05/23/19 10:26:19 PM
#410:


...I may or may not steal a bunch of those ideas next TEW game
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ScareChan
05/23/19 11:51:15 PM
#411:


the issue with that is JR is not going to follow it >_>
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NBIceman
05/23/19 11:58:21 PM
#412:


I'm holding out hope that after JR vomits all over himself at the events prior to TV they'll realize he needs to be relegated to a backstage role.
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XIII_rocks
05/24/19 9:31:28 AM
#413:


NBIceman posted...
I'm a sports fan and pretty big stat geek like Tony Khan, so I myself am very excited for the idea, and Cody himself said that he doesnt necessarily see it as a cornerstone. That, to me, indicates that itll be used more as a supplement to storylines than something that theyre all going to completely revolve around.


This should have been happening in WWE for years. Do on-screen stats showing how many times ADR has done a hold targeting the arm in a match. It's such an easy way to enhance storytelling while maintaining a sports-like presentation that to me it just seems like common sense.

If anything has driven my desire to watch AEW, it's this.
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Lopen
05/24/19 11:04:51 AM
#414:


Trust me you don't want WWE doing that. Recall commentary for some of the mid 2010 Rumbles where JBL is constantly droning on about FACTZ.

I do think used responsibly it'd help a lot though.
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XIII_rocks
05/24/19 3:51:44 PM
#415:


Wait, what?

How is Jack Whitehall involved with AEW?
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Steiner
05/24/19 3:59:06 PM
#416:


close friends with Tony Khan, according to the latest road to double or nothing
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XIII_rocks
05/24/19 4:04:38 PM
#417:


That is such a bizarre combination of things
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Steiner
05/24/19 4:27:28 PM
#418:


also cody basically confirmed last night that ITV will be the TV partner here
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TheRock1525
05/24/19 4:40:43 PM
#419:


Steiner posted...
also cody basically confirmed last night that ITV will be the TV partner here

that's a pretty big get isn't it?
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XIII_rocks
05/24/19 4:43:09 PM
#420:


ITV4 probably so not as big as it appears

But still pretty big yes. It's on freeview anyway
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Steiner
05/24/19 4:44:15 PM
#421:


I would have to assume it will actually be shown on ITV4, not main ITV, but that's still a huge deal yeah. WWE has been on Sky Sports for years which is a very expensive package, and is now moving to BT Sport which is a less expensive but also less popular package. ITV4 is available on Freeview so anybody with a TV license can view it
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Jakyl25
05/24/19 6:11:06 PM
#422:


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Tom Bombadil
05/24/19 6:12:47 PM
#423:


I have finally switched to CHIKARA and the Tag World Grand Prix makes me want to fantasy book an interpromotional tag tournament
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Jakyl25
05/24/19 6:16:03 PM
#424:


Wait are you watching from the beginning?
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Tom Bombadil
05/24/19 9:16:02 PM
#425:


I am watching from that show so that skips what two seasons or so?
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ExThaNemesis
05/25/19 9:43:49 PM
#426:


Loved the destruction of the throne with a sledge hammer.

People are going to call it inferiority complex stuff, but the symbolism is fantastic.
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ExThaNemesis
05/25/19 11:12:10 PM
#427:


Love the Sephiroth jacket!!
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ninkendo
05/25/19 11:32:27 PM
#428:


ExThaNemesis posted...
Love the Sephiroth jacket!!

Yet you don't like jojo's art style even though it's nothing but sephiroth jackets hmmmmmm
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NBIceman
05/25/19 11:42:42 PM
#429:


So Double or Nothing was a surefire Show of the Year Contender but more importantly

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Super_Smash_Bros_pose.jpg
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ninkendo
05/25/19 11:43:15 PM
#430:


Rhodes vs Rhodes favorite match tonight
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TheRock1525
05/25/19 11:53:46 PM
#431:


I am legit shocked that Moxley is in AEW that quickly.

We may never see another Shield reference again.
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Strife2
05/25/19 11:56:27 PM
#432:


WWE was desperate, but he didn't give a shit. I wasn't able to watch the PPV, but all signs pointed to, "good wrestling, pure and simple."

I'm ok with that. Now if I can find time to watch the PPV or at least the TV when it comes out...
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Jakyl25
05/26/19 12:00:40 AM
#433:


ExThaNemesis posted...
Loved the destruction of the throne with a sledge hammer.

People are going to call it inferiority complex stuff, but the symbolism is fantastic.


I laughed because it exploded
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:00:56 AM
#434:


I just figured he was doing his movie and then maybe he'd join AEW later.
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Jakyl25
05/26/19 12:01:30 AM
#435:


TheRock1525 posted...
I am legit shocked that Moxley is in AEW that quickly.

We may never see another Shield reference again.


How mad is Vince when he hears
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:03:57 AM
#436:


Jakyl25 posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
I am legit shocked that Moxley is in AEW that quickly.

We may never see another Shield reference again.


How mad is Vince when he hears


Retroactively CGIs a second Roman Reigns over Dean in all famous Shield moments.
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WarThaNemesis2
05/26/19 12:12:58 AM
#437:


ExThaNemesis posted...
Loved the destruction of the throne with a sledge hammer.

People are going to call it inferiority complex stuff, but the symbolism is fantastic.


It was really stupid.

Just like how I love my pro wrestling.
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Jakyl25
05/26/19 12:21:38 AM
#438:


https://twitter.com/aewrestling/status/1132494491250614273?s=21

I specifically got this tweet in my feed because Sasha Banks liked it

I feel like she has few if any fucks left to give
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Jakyl25
05/26/19 12:24:30 AM
#439:


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WarThaNemesis2
05/26/19 12:25:29 AM
#440:


Jakyl25 posted...
https://twitter.com/aewrestling/status/1132494491250614273?s=21

I specifically got this tweet in my feed because Sasha Banks liked it

I feel like she has few if any fucks left to give


what are they gonna do, fire her?
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NBIceman
05/26/19 12:27:44 AM
#441:


The unfortunate byproduct of DoN being so great is that it REALLY ensures now that WWE ain't releasing anyone.
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Steiner
05/26/19 12:31:52 AM
#442:


Jakyl25 posted...
https://twitter.com/aewrestling/status/1132501435336183808?s=21

Also they are quick on the draw with his merch


this empire was built on merch
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:34:06 AM
#443:


My only issue is I really, really, really don't want Jericho as the inaugural champion nor did I like him going over clean on Omega.
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Steiner
05/26/19 12:35:15 AM
#444:


TheRock1525 posted...
My only issue is I really, really, really don't want Jericho as the inaugural champion nor did I like him going over clean on Omega.


so it's working
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Jakyl25
05/26/19 12:35:18 AM
#445:


WarThaNemesis2 posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
https://twitter.com/aewrestling/status/1132494491250614273?s=21

I specifically got this tweet in my feed because Sasha Banks liked it

I feel like she has few if any fucks left to give


what are they gonna do, fire her?


Freeze her contract forever and pay her for life to never wrestle again
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:36:28 AM
#446:


Steiner posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
My only issue is I really, really, really don't want Jericho as the inaugural champion nor did I like him going over clean on Omega.


so it's working


What's working? I mean I feel like they didn't want full blown nepotism in their first show so they couldn't have all The Elite guys go over, but Omega/Page felt like a better battle for first ever AEW Champion than Jericho/Page.
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Steiner
05/26/19 12:38:36 AM
#447:


you're supposed to really not want him as inaugural champion and not like him going over omega is all i meant! i sure hope page can beat him!

also, i don't think you wanna do page/omega with both being the two major protagonists of the promotion
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NBIceman
05/26/19 12:39:07 AM
#448:


But would you rather have 90% of the crowd root for Page in a match with Jericho or (generously) 40% in a match with Omega? Which is the better atmosphere considering you're looking at the guy to be one of the biggest pushed stars?
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:42:10 AM
#449:


NBIceman posted...
But would you rather have 90% of the crowd root for Page in a match with Jericho or (generously) 40% in a match with Omega? Which is the better atmosphere considering you're looking at the guy to be one of the biggest pushed stars?


The latter. Mostly because I am very, very over Chris Jericho at this point in his career. And dude's my second favorite wrestler of all time.
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TheRock1525
05/26/19 12:48:18 AM
#450:


Also I very much agree with Jean Ambroxly debuting by Dirty Deedsing everything.
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Tom Bombadil
05/26/19 12:53:58 AM
#451:


I am trying and failing to think of a show I liked better than that one ever

and I only saw bits and pieces of the main event on a crummy livecam!
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ScareChan
05/26/19 12:57:50 AM
#452:


Takeover before mania
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