Current Events > Non American gets banned on twitch for black face, is surprised by it

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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 3:49:42 PM
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myzz7
04/15/19 3:54:23 PM
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living in
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Zikten
04/15/19 3:56:08 PM
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isn't blackface mostly only understood and even known about in America? I think people in other countries don't understand it's significance or think of it at all
Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 3:58:20 PM
4
Zikten posted...
isn't blackface mostly only understood and even known about in America? I think people in other countries don't understand it's significance or think of it at all

There's literally no reason to paint her skin to resemble the character. The outfit would be enough.
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EndOfDiscOne
04/15/19 3:58:39 PM
5
That's not even blackface. I hate this world
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 3:59:42 PM
6
EndOfDiscOne posted...
That's not even blackface. I hate this world

It is though. Unintentional, maybe, but she absolutely caked on makeup to look black.

Here's her response though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY1HCuA72fg" data-time="

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Garioshi
04/15/19 4:03:57 PM
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We live in a society
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BillyKidd
04/15/19 4:04:27 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
Zikten posted...
isn't blackface mostly only understood and even known about in America? I think people in other countries don't understand it's significance or think of it at all

There's literally no reason to paint her skin to resemble the character. The outfit would be enough.


You realize you didn't refute anything they said, right. "Blackface" is an American thing, and most outside that country know nothing wrong about it.
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Vyrulisse
04/15/19 4:05:25 PM
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Oh she only had 160 or so viewers? Twitch won't think twice about banning if your numbers are that low. If she wanted to be safe she needs Alinity numbers or at least do a few lingerie squats for Twitch admins to fap over so she could be protected
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friendbuddypal
04/15/19 4:05:54 PM
11
Imperialist Americans expecting everyone to follow their cultural norms. Proto-fascism, if you ask me.
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darkphoenix181
04/15/19 4:07:46 PM
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The irony is the side that would do this is the side that doesn't think America is the greatest country, but is one of the worst,

and yet they would believe the rest of the world must conform to American social justice.
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Sayoria
04/15/19 4:08:25 PM
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We have lost out minds over what constitutes as "blackface." Blackface used to be the stereotypical representation of black features using an overly dark substance, such as shoe polish, on your skin. Usually with big lips and other things like "mammy." This clearly wasn't meant to insult, nor would I constitute it as "blackface" because it's not at all like blackface in that regard.

Would I have done it? No, but grouping this with "blackface" is just bogus. It's clearly not an attack and more of an open costume to represent the character respectfully, not to attack a race.... which blackface is all about. Tell me how that costume is racist. Seriously.

Again, not defending skin-coloring, but skin-coloring for character representation without racial elements and actual "blackface" are two different things.
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 4:08:54 PM
14
BillyKidd posted...
You realize you didn't refute anything they said, right. "Blackface" is an American thing, and most outside that country know nothing wrong about it.

Ignorance isn't a defense lol
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DezDroppedFreak
04/15/19 4:09:05 PM
15
*reads article title*

Its Lifeline isnt it

*scrolls*

Yep
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 4:09:31 PM
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*checks link*

Yeah honestly that isn't even bad. At all.

How many years till someone cosplays a navi and gets shit on for doing blue face?
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nemu
04/15/19 4:09:49 PM
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I'll never understand why it's so hard to apply context to cases of painting your skin another color. If the blackface phenomenon in America never happened, there would be no particular stigma against it. The whole point of blackface was to make a complete mockery of the race with exaggerated characteristics. So if there is a case where the person clearly has no intention to offend, then why is it an issue?
LightHawKnight
04/15/19 4:10:03 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
Zikten posted...
isn't blackface mostly only understood and even known about in America? I think people in other countries don't understand it's significance or think of it at all

There's literally no reason to paint her skin to resemble the character. The outfit would be enough.


I mean there are a ton of Starfire cosplayers that paint their skin orangish, or whatever hue her skin is.
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eston
04/15/19 4:14:17 PM
19
Tbqh I think it really comes down to Twitch covering their asses. She obviously wasn't mocking or making fun of anyone with this, which is a key component of what makes blackface offensive, but obviously Twitch as a company can't appear to be condoning it. The article indicates that it is a 30 day suspension, which doesn't really sound like a huge deal anyway
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Veggeta X
04/15/19 4:16:06 PM
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Even Japan knows not to use Mr Popo no more.
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 4:16:36 PM
21
Sayoria posted...
Would I have done it? No, but grouping this with "blackface" is just bogus. It's clearly not an attack and more of an open costume to represent the character respectfully, not to attack a race.... which blackface is all about. Tell me how that costume is racist. Seriously.

I never said it was racist, I said it was blackface. And I clearly said it was unintentional lol. But blackface doesn't have to be intentional, nor does it need to be exaggerated to be offensive.

Like imagine a random guy casually dropping rape jokes around women. He may not mean harm by it or take out seriously, but would women be out of line to think it's insulting? How is this different?
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 4:18:46 PM
22
LightHawKnight posted...
I mean there are a ton of Starfire cosplayers that paint their skin orangish, or whatever hue her skin is.

Starfire is an alien.
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02fran
04/15/19 4:20:10 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
Sayoria posted...
Would I have done it? No, but grouping this with "blackface" is just bogus. It's clearly not an attack and more of an open costume to represent the character respectfully, not to attack a race.... which blackface is all about. Tell me how that costume is racist. Seriously.

I never said it was racist, I said it was blackface. And I clearly said it was unintentional lol. But blackface doesn't have to be intentional, nor does it need to be exaggerated to be offensive.

Like imagine a random guy casually dropping rape jokes around women. He may not mean harm by it or take out seriously, but would women be out of line to think it's insulting? How is this different?


Everyone mocked that Asian porn star for complaining about that dude cosplaying putting on asianface and cosplaying an Asian.
CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 4:21:05 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
Sayoria posted...
Would I have done it? No, but grouping this with "blackface" is just bogus. It's clearly not an attack and more of an open costume to represent the character respectfully, not to attack a race.... which blackface is all about. Tell me how that costume is racist. Seriously.

I never said it was racist, I said it was blackface. And I clearly said it was unintentional lol. But blackface doesn't have to be intentional, nor does it need to be exaggerated to be offensive.

Like imagine a random guy casually dropping rape jokes around women. He may not mean harm by it or take out seriously, but would women be out of line to think it's insulting? How is this different?


Better question.... How is that even remotely the same? Please explain the logic there.
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Sayoria
04/15/19 4:21:47 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
Sayoria posted...
Would I have done it? No, but grouping this with "blackface" is just bogus. It's clearly not an attack and more of an open costume to represent the character respectfully, not to attack a race.... which blackface is all about. Tell me how that costume is racist. Seriously.

I never said it was racist, I said it was blackface. And I clearly said it was unintentional lol. But blackface doesn't have to be intentional, nor does it need to be exaggerated to be offensive.

Like imagine a random guy casually dropping rape jokes around women constantly. He may not mean harm by it or take out seriously, but would women be out of line to think it's insulting? How is this different?


Difference here is that it is actually harmful and promotes hateful, violent acts. Character representation such as what she is doing however, is promoting art. If she attempted to stereotype, then yes, you'd have an argument I'd agree with, but she didn't.
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pauIie
04/15/19 4:24:44 PM
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CanuckCowboy posted...
*checks link*

Yeah honestly that isn't even bad. At all.

How many years till someone cosplays a navi and gets shit on for doing blue face?

not sure. let's go ask the blue people.
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Unsugarized_Foo
04/15/19 4:24:55 PM
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That's not black face
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LightHawKnight
04/15/19 4:31:25 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
LightHawKnight posted...
I mean there are a ton of Starfire cosplayers that paint their skin orangish, or whatever hue her skin is.

Starfire is an alien.


So it is okay to paint the skin color of aliens?
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Foppe
04/15/19 4:45:16 PM
29
Be careful, seems like somebody marks posts that doesnt agree that it is offensive.
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ModLogic
04/15/19 4:50:07 PM
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Makeveli_lives posted...
BillyKidd posted...
You realize you didn't refute anything they said, right. "Blackface" is an American thing, and most outside that country know nothing wrong about it.

Ignorance isn't a defense lol

bigots have no problem using it as a defense to censor a religious symbol such as the manji
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Bad_Mojo
04/15/19 4:50:46 PM
31
Just looks like she got a crazy tan Ive seen on other women

Are tans offensive now? But to who? Bring to dark or not wanting to become darker

Crazy world
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 4:52:09 PM
32
Bad_Mojo posted...
Just looks like she got a crazy tan Ive seen on other women

Are tans offensive now? But to who? Bring to dark or not wanting to become darker

Crazy world


Honestly trumps spray tan is more offensive than this.
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ViewtifulGrave
04/15/19 4:53:31 PM
33
BillyKidd posted...
You realize you didn't refute anything they said, right. "Blackface" is an American thing, and most outside that country know nothing wrong about it.

Not necessarily.

I believe Sweden has a holiday that focuses on a black face character.
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eston
04/15/19 4:54:12 PM
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Bad_Mojo posted...
Just looks like she got a crazy tan Ive seen on other women

Are tans offensive now? But to who? Bring to dark or not wanting to become darker

Crazy world

They've been offensive since Jersey Shore
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 4:55:38 PM
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ViewtifulGrave posted...
BillyKidd posted...
You realize you didn't refute anything they said, right. "Blackface" is an American thing, and most outside that country know nothing wrong about it.

Not necessarily.

I believe Sweden has a holiday that focuses on a black face character.


You're probly thinking of black Pete. That's Dutch iirc.
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 4:56:47 PM
36
CanuckCowboy posted...

Better question.... How is that even remotely the same? Please explain the logic there.

I'm saying offense without intent to offend doesn't magically make it non offensive.

Sayoria posted...
If she attempted to stereotype, then yes, you'd have an argument I'd agree with, but she didn't.

See above. You don't need to paint your skin black to portray a black character. Had she cosplayed without the skin tone nobody would care. The outfit is enough.
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Bad_Mojo
04/15/19 4:57:07 PM
37
eston posted...
Bad_Mojo posted...
Just looks like she got a crazy tan Ive seen on other women

Are tans offensive now? But to who? Bring to dark or not wanting to become darker

Crazy world

They've been offensive since Jersey Shore


So white people cant tan? Lmao

But then were too white. Im so confused!
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 4:59:29 PM
38
Bad_Mojo posted...
eston posted...
Bad_Mojo posted...
Just looks like she got a crazy tan Ive seen on other women

Are tans offensive now? But to who? Bring to dark or not wanting to become darker

Crazy world

They've been offensive since Jersey Shore


So white people cant tan? Lmao

But then were too white. Im so confused!

LOL your reaching Mr fantastic.
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refmon
04/15/19 5:11:26 PM
39
nemu posted...
if there is a case where the person clearly has no intention to offend, then why is it an issue?

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nemu
04/15/19 5:11:48 PM
40
Makeveli_lives posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...

Better question.... How is that even remotely the same? Please explain the logic there.

I'm saying offense without intent to offend doesn't magically make it non offensive.

Sayoria posted...
If she attempted to stereotype, then yes, you'd have an argument I'd agree with, but she didn't.

See above. You don't need to paint your skin black to portray a black character. Had she cosplayed without the skin tone nobody would care. The outfit is enough.

There's a difference between "that's offensive" and "I find that offensive." You seem to be going at this with the idea that it's inherently offensive based entirely on what is mostly an American perspective of things. That's the problem with a lot of the controversy based around this topic.
ultimate reaver
04/15/19 5:15:38 PM
41
"it just looks like a tan" is the dumbest retort to this ive ever heard and can be quelled by literally just googling the character she's dressing up as and seeing that they're a lighter-complexion black person
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DeathDeathSong
04/15/19 5:16:04 PM
42
do white cosplayers know that they can just like. wear the clothes
like do they know they dont have to put on blackface they can just wear the costume
do they know that
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 5:24:51 PM
43
nemu posted...
There's a difference between "that's offensive" and "I find that offensive." You seem to be going at this with the idea that it's inherently offensive based entirely on what is mostly an American perspective of things. That's the problem with a lot of the controversy based around this topic.

I'm not offended. She's not offensive. What she did was unintentionally offensive. That's my stance in this topic and always has been lol.
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Foppe
04/15/19 5:26:34 PM
44
How is it offensive if it was never meant as offensive and if nobody got offended?
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 5:28:27 PM
45
Makeveli_lives posted...
nemu posted...
There's a difference between "that's offensive" and "I find that offensive." You seem to be going at this with the idea that it's inherently offensive based entirely on what is mostly an American perspective of things. That's the problem with a lot of the controversy based around this topic.

I'm not offended. She's not offensive. What she did was unintentionally offensive. That's my stance in this topic and always has been lol.


Okay.

Too who and why is this a hill you're making a stand on?

This topic makes it appear that you want people to condemn it as offensive and that she should have expected the ban.

But it wasn't intended to offend and I don't see anyone itt who is offended (apparently including you) ... So how did you come to decide that it is objectively offensive?
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nemu
04/15/19 5:28:28 PM
46
Makeveli_lives posted...
nemu posted...
There's a difference between "that's offensive" and "I find that offensive." You seem to be going at this with the idea that it's inherently offensive based entirely on what is mostly an American perspective of things. That's the problem with a lot of the controversy based around this topic.

I'm not offended. She's not offensive. What she did was unintentionally offensive. That's my stance in this topic and always has been lol.

"Unintentionally offensive" assumes that it is inherently offensive, which is just a circular argument based only on the notion that painting one's skin another color is an inherent mockery of that race which itself is based pretty much entirely on American blackface.
Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 5:33:33 PM
47
CanuckCowboy posted...
But it wasn't intended to offend and I don't see anyone itt who is offended (apparently including you) ... So how did you come to decide that it is objectively offensive?

We really need to have a discussion about why blackface is inherently offensive due to its history?

Alright then tell me why swastikas are seen as symbols of hate instead of just another symbol? Assume someone didn't know the history and started putting them up, what would be the reaction from others? Would that reaction be proper?
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 5:34:53 PM
48
But swastikas is not a viable explanation or response.

You're still not explaining why you feel the need to condemn this a categorically wrong and offensive while admitting it's not intended to offend and that even you aren't offended by it.
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ModLogic
04/15/19 5:35:37 PM
49
Makeveli_lives posted...
Alright then tell me why swastikas are seen as symbols of hate instead of just another symbol? Assume someone didn't know the history and started putting them up, what would be the reaction from others? Would that reaction be proper?

thats due to ignorance and bigotry
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Makeveli_lives
04/15/19 5:36:17 PM
50
CanuckCowboy posted...
But swastikas is not a viable explanation or response.

You're still not explaining why you feel the need to condemn this a categorically wrong and offensive while admitting it's not intended to offend and that even you aren't offended by it.

Who's condemning? I'm condemning the act, not the streamer.
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CanuckCowboy
04/15/19 5:38:17 PM
51
Makeveli_lives posted...
CanuckCowboy posted...
But swastikas is not a viable explanation or response.

You're still not explaining why you feel the need to condemn this a categorically wrong and offensive while admitting it's not intended to offend and that even you aren't offended by it.

Who's condemning? I'm condemning the act, not the streamer.


Semantics now really?

You're labelling it as inherently, objectively, categorically offensive. Why are you so set on that given the fact even you say it's not offensive? It's weird.
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