Board 8 > Umineko Playthrough Topic Part 5

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Dels
04/12/19 1:19:37 AM
#1:


This is part 5 of my Umineko playthrough!

We've finished Question Arcs and are about to begin Answer Arcs.

Parts 1 to 4 are archived here, roughly one topic per episode:
http://zyxyzarchive.x10host.com/index_delsumi.html

Thank you Zyxyz!

This is a spoiler-free thread! Please do not discuss anything past where I am. Even small spoilers or implications like "Can't wait for you to get to X" or "Y character will become better later", etc. Thank you!

If you want to discuss with spoilers, please visit Raka's spectating topic here:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77401344

The last page of topic 4 has my updated character rankings, mastermind rankings, and various other thoughts upon completing Question Arcs.

Character Rankings Full Progression:
https://snag.gy/6IqgCS.jpg

Episode 5 will begin momentarily. If you haven't played the game, back out now.
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Raka_Putra
04/12/19 1:20:36 AM
#2:


Gouge the topic and kill.
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Dels
04/12/19 1:36:14 AM
#3:


Ok, so

The episode 5 description

"The game has already reached a climax. The culprit has been cornered, and there's nothing left to do but await the final checkmate"

Difficulty is fairly easy

Very interesting

My theory was that episode 5 would recover episode 1 but this time with different PoVs that would give us the clues we need to get to... y'know, the answer.

But this doesn't seem right?

It seems like we will jump into another "gameboard", but this time we'll... see who the killer is? And work backwards? I'm not sure.

The reason I thought it wouldn't just be 4 more episodes like usual is because I think they just have done the same format too much and it'd be a bit much to have *another* set of 6 deaths, and another pair of close people dying, and etc. We've already established 4 variations to solve and I don't think there's value in having more. Episode 4 seemed to realize this since it majorly switched things up. So I think, at the very least, our days of just following the timeline and the epitaph linearly... should be over?

Maybe this chapter will be a "howdunnit" where we see someone succesfully accused, but we still have to learn how they did it...? And in doing so, we'll learn things that can help us solve the past mysteries?

Very intriguing indeed

Oh, and "A new game by a new Game Master"

Maybe the blue haired girl from the patcher...? That makes sense, Beatrice is lovely but there's 4 more episodes and it's good to switch things up. Just as long as it doesn't mean more and more magical characters. Surely the magical world stuff climaxed in episode 4? You can't get any grander than that... And it's all fake so it won't help us arrive at any answers.

Let's get started...
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Dels
04/12/19 2:06:21 AM
#4:


Alright, well, you know me. Before Beatrice can even finish her first line, I already open the bios menu to check out what we've got.

The 18 family members like usual. Kinzo is there.

But the magic tab starts us off with a bunch of people! The witches are all there, and Battler has an entry? And Lambda and Bern are strangely split up this time.

Seven Sisters are in, Chiester Sisters are not.

The bios have already told us the story.

Battler's bio says Lambdadelta has taken over as Game Master so Battler isn't participating.

Beatrice's bio says she is just Beato's "piece". Wtf does this even mean? lol. Her bio says that Bernkastel is her opponent instead of Battler. The bio says she's just a piece on the board, the "higher-plane" Beato isn't Game Master and so this piece doesn't know anything. Weeeeird.

Lambda's bio says she's the game master. Sigh. Lame?

Bern's bio says that she has taken on the Battler role in this game. But it makes it clear that she is not Battler's ally. She's only doing this because she's bored. Okay.

Weird stuff.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:07:16 AM
#5:


There's no option for "non-spoiler opening videos" this time. Can I assume that the opening credits won't show me stuff/characters I haven't seen yet?
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Dels
04/12/19 2:08:01 AM
#6:


Based on just the first 30 seconds of this, I'm assuming that this piece-Beatrice is the "killer" and she's been caught and we will learn how she killed people...? And that'll help us learn about how a killer might have killed in the first 4 episodes...? Hm.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:08:43 AM
#7:


and why does Virgilia's bio still say she's a good witch who dedicated her life to helping people?

is this true?

was it ever true???????
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Dels
04/12/19 2:10:50 AM
#8:


Beato gets a new hair-down sprite.

Pretty!
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Dels
04/12/19 2:16:09 AM
#9:


Lambda basically tells me that my theory was correct - She is going to take over and create a new scenario which will serve as a hint to help me figure out how Beato's 4 episodes worked. So I correctly predicted that based on the description.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:18:54 AM
#10:


Bernkastel gets more sinister looking sprites and she's more of an asshole already this episode

Guess she really isn't much of a good guy after all
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Dels
04/12/19 2:25:02 AM
#11:


It's like this game keeps retreading the arc of episode 3 between Battler and Beato

We learned she was faking it and that she's definitely evil and Battler's mortal enemy

But in episode 4, and again now, we're having the same sort of "Battler cares about Beato and wants to play against her and only her, and when she's sad, he wants her to recover" thing

And it's a bit, like, ??????? Didn't we already go through that? You taught me that having sympathy for Beato was a mistake and that all her feelings were lies but now you want me to have sympathy for her again and paint her as sympathetic...?

What am I meant to feel...?
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Dels
04/12/19 2:28:30 AM
#12:


Hahaha

Battler joins the game and we're brought to a bio screen showing us the first 6 deaths.

Looks like all the kids - Battler but + Rosa were slashed in the cousins room, but also Hideyoshi is dead to stake and Genji was slashed elsewhere

Kind of weird for a first twilight, those don't usually have a stake death
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Dels
04/12/19 2:32:20 AM
#13:


Okay there's the opening credits so nevermind my question

They didn't show any new characters except the blue haired girl

Also, Natsuhi is apparently a murderer this time lol
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Dels
04/12/19 2:33:15 AM
#14:


Obviously this episode wasn't made by Beato and doesn't count for anything, because precious Natsuhi could never kill anyone. This episode isn't canon.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:34:22 AM
#15:


"This is just too sudden..." Natsuhi says, shocked by the death of an old man that people were predicting would die "any day now" for years
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Dels
04/12/19 2:38:28 AM
#16:


omg, poor sweet natsuhi

"when krauss told her to wait, she knew it must be because he wanted to be alone with her and to have her support"

no natsuhi, he's just coming up with a plan to lie to everyone.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:39:46 AM
#17:


"as natushi watched krauss act like a deranged egotistical commanding madman, she realized that he was definitely kinzo's son"
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Dels
04/12/19 2:41:51 AM
#18:


lmao

i take it back, krauss is incompetent as hell LOL

he's just arguing with natsuhi in front of the servants as he's forced to admit he got frauded out of a bunch of money that she told him not to
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Dels
04/12/19 2:42:32 AM
#19:


https://snag.gy/CbL5sJ.jpg

lmao they are turning krauss into a straight up joke character

it's like someone convinced him to join herbalife
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Dels
04/12/19 2:43:33 AM
#20:


lmao holy shit krauss got duped by someone claiming to work for nasa saying they'd start making vacations to the moon?

is umineko a comedy now?

is krauss the comic relief?!
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Dels
04/12/19 2:43:42 AM
#21:


get me off of lambdadelta's wild ride! hahahaha
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Dels
04/12/19 2:48:19 AM
#22:


https://snag.gy/QeutyO.jpg

lmao

i'm sorry krauss i think you meant to say that you NEED A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT NOW
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Dels
04/12/19 2:49:53 AM
#23:


i'm loving natsuhi's inner monologue as she mocks krauss for being a total idiot
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Dels
04/12/19 2:50:43 AM
#24:


i guess we're doing this to set natsuhi up for a motive for murder

that's fine, she's justified, her husband is an idiot.
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Dels
04/12/19 2:52:54 AM
#25:


but let's get one thing clear:

even if lamda's silly episode 5 has natsuhi murder with the motive of money

that's not the full story of eps 1 to 4

the mastermind isn't just killing for the inheritance money or w/e

that's just too straightforward

it may work as an example motive in this episode, but it's not the real truth to the mysteries of Umineko
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Dels
04/12/19 2:57:12 AM
#26:


they're a lot more upfront about the fact that natsuhi talks to imaginary kinzo this time around

but tbqh it was already pretty obvious back in episode 1 LOL if you took any time to think about it
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Dels
04/12/19 2:59:11 AM
#27:


natsuhi is funny because she's like the most innocent person ever but she looks up to this guy who is a total asshole and she doesn't seem to realize the dissonance?
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Dels
04/12/19 3:03:08 AM
#28:


so, to get thematic for a bit again (i hope you guys like this stuff)

imaginary kinzo tells natsuhi that being the ushiromiya head isn't about blood or a simple succession metric, it's about who is truly fitting in spirit

this is like how ep1 imaginary-kinzo told her that it's not about the crest on your clothes, it's the crest in your hearts

and he says beatrice will support anyone who can truly conquer her

and i think this is thematically connected to the "your world is what you make of it" theme

if you can connect to your imagination enough to imagine magic is real, that's all that matters

you can decide your own worldview

natsuhi can feel the pride needed to fight back against eva in ep 1, not because a real kinzo gave her something, but just because she changed her own worldview by imagining it
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Dels
04/12/19 3:04:26 AM
#29:


And episode 3 got into this a bit as well with the constant debates about what is "real magic" and what isn't

There are no rules

You can decide what counts and what doesn't

The rules can say that magic is anything supernatural that affects the world, but the characters in ep 3 can be like "no, real magic is only when you use it to help people" and that becomes their reality (for that episode, at least) and so on
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Dels
04/12/19 3:04:54 AM
#30:


In other words, it doesn't matter if someone gives you the headship. Be your own head. It doesn't matter if you know magic or not, as long as you believe you do. Etc
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Dels
04/12/19 3:06:07 AM
#31:


I could be writing the most boring playthrough topic ever.

Maybe the reason no one replies isn't because I asked for no spoilers but because no one is reading it

But in my mind, you guys are following it and only holding back from commenting because I told you not to.

What if reality really was that no one was reading this? But my reality is that people are and are enjoying it

y'know?

that's just one example
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Dels
04/12/19 3:06:37 AM
#32:


(honestly i'm loving the other guy's playthrough topic lol so i can see myself following more of these in the future)
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Dels
04/12/19 3:09:01 AM
#33:


man i figured it must've been krauss's idea to pretend kinzo was alive, and natsuhi just went along with it

but it's totally gonna be her idea isn't it?

you go girl!
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Dels
04/12/19 3:09:30 AM
#34:


lmao, kinzo and beatrice praise natsuhi

but it's just natsuhi's own imagination

that's funny
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Dels
04/12/19 3:17:03 AM
#35:


i don't actually know who the silhouette in the title logo is and it's bothering me because i feel i should
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Dels
04/12/19 3:19:05 AM
#36:


thank god the servants have been brainwashed to believe they're sub-human, or you might not get away with ordering them to cover up blatant crimes!

not sure why kumasawa and nanjo go along with it tho
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Dels
04/12/19 3:24:02 AM
#37:


Lambda wants to start teaching me about the rules of the narration, apparently

She's asking us how Kinzo can be seen walking in the garden if he's dead

Battler says "duh it's not real", because, yeah, that's it. Any scenes we are shown can just be lies, that's the rule of this game.

But she asks how Kanon can be there as well

And this is an answer I'm curious about as well, because the answer may help define the rules on which things the game shows us can be fake
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Dels
04/12/19 3:27:12 AM
#38:


https://snag.gy/o10bct.jpg

Again, there is a theme of "mass delusion"

If everyone pretends to believe in magic, it's like it's real to them

Just like if everyone believes in a religion and keeps constant rules... it's real to them...

Just like people in a cult believe things which aren't true

Just like people who join MLMs like Herbalife believe things which aren't true!

But ask the person working for Herbalife and they will tell you "I'm making lots of money, people who work for Herbalife are all super succesful!", because it's what they really believe... so it's true for them. Just like Krauss truly believed the people who frauded him.

Our reality is what we choose to believe. Even if it goes against reality???
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Dels
04/12/19 3:30:37 AM
#39:


I can't remember if we covered this or not but Bern is explicitly talking about Knox's rules now and confirming that every murder doesn't ever contain any tricks that aren't allowed.

She kind of mocks us for even bothering to make Beato use red text to confirm it.

Well, good. I'm glad to have it explicitly stated, even if I already assumed it.
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Dels
04/12/19 3:42:24 AM
#40:


Beato tells Natsuhi that her fake conference plans for Kinzo were so good they may as well be magic

She tells Natsuhi that she's so good at lying she could become a witch

Natsuhi jokes that by that logic, Kumasawa could be the witch of faking sick

But it's not a joke, is it? Considering the strong themes of "magic" = "lies" this game has
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Dels
04/12/19 3:43:05 AM
#41:


I guess I should be saying "Beatrice", not "Beato". Beato is our Beatrice, this one is a piece.
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Dels
04/12/19 3:49:55 AM
#42:


Battler, about the empty Beato:

"...If I think I've hurt her, ...does taht mean she's actually been hurt?

And, if I didn't think I'd hurt her, would that mean no one's gotten hurt because of me?"


Battler gets it. That's the exact theme I've been discussing for the past dozen posts.
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Dels
04/12/19 3:51:26 AM
#43:


Okay, so Bern is explaining the rules of the game to me (finally, it only took 4 episodes)

She says that the reason we can see Natsuhi talking to Beatrice is because Lambda, the game master, is telling the story that way

In other words, since Beatrice was the game master for the first 4 (or, at least, 2 to 4, we hadn't met her for 1 theoretically), she could show any scenes she wanted. Yeah, like I said, any scene can be a lie apparently, so...
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Dels
04/12/19 3:52:30 AM
#44:


Apparently, love is what lets us see the fake stuff.

Sure, love may be what you need to imagine a pleasant Natsuhi/Beatrice tea-drinking scene

But was love what was needed to see goats and bunnies murdering people left and right? That's a bit of a contradiction, ain't it?
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Dels
04/12/19 3:54:26 AM
#45:


"...If there's something no one can deny, ...doesn't that mean it's truth?"
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Dels
04/12/19 3:56:20 AM
#46:


the more bern talks the more she makes herself with a nuisance

i'm with battler, i don't give a shit about these two

now that she's started doing more, she gonna drop a dozen places on the character chart because she's gone from "vaguely relatable and inoffensive" to "just another evil witch"
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Dels
04/12/19 3:58:00 AM
#47:


poor natsuhi, having tea all alone, her sweet tea time fantasy with beatrice crushed =(
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Raka_Putra
04/12/19 5:58:37 AM
#48:


Dels posted...
(honestly i'm loving the other guy's playthrough topic lol so i can see myself following more of these in the future)

This is another good reason to finish Umineko. You get a lot of enjoyment from other people's LP.
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Sceptilesolar
04/12/19 6:15:53 AM
#49:


Ep5 is really good all around, and I definitely want to see your reactions to how things develop. It lays its cards out on the table a lot more willingly than, for instance, Ep4 does. That just makes it very enjoyable, closer to Ep3 in that way.
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Tom Bombadil
04/12/19 6:50:35 AM
#50:


Dels posted...
But in my mind, you guys are following it and only holding back from commenting because I told you not to.


pretty much, it's hard to comment on an umineko playthrough even when it's more lax about spoilers than yours!
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