Poll of the Day > Should all games have a easy mode??

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PowerOats
04/05/19 1:50:15 AM
1
just askin. - Results (5 votes)
Yes
80% (4 votes)
4
No
20% (1 vote)
1
Topic
ChaosAzeroth
04/05/19 1:50:53 AM
2
Why not?
You don't have to use it, after all.
wwinterj25
04/05/19 1:56:05 AM
3
Nope. Some games appeal is all about challenge. Taking that away by offering easy options defeats the point. I'm not a fan of dark soul style games but those having a easy made would seem very dumb for the reasons above. If someone said they beat a souls style game you know they have put in the time, effort and dedication to do so. Having a easy mode means you can skip all that and still claim you beat it. I'm tired of games being dumbed down to suit the casual market so much. Hell even games that already have a easy mode get their hard mode dumbed down to appeal to the casual market(no idea why). Kingdom Hearts 3 comes to mind.
---
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 2:00:52 AM
4
I wouldnt mind it...
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ChaosAzeroth
04/05/19 2:05:00 AM
5
wwinterj25 posted...
Nope. Some games appeal is all about challenge. Taking that away by offering easy options defeats the point. I'm not a fan of dark soul style games but those having a easy made would seem very dumb for the reasons above. If someone said they beat a souls style game you know they have put in the time, effort and dedication to do so. Having a easy mode means you can skip all that and still claim you beat it. I'm tired of games being dumbed down to suit the casual market so much. Hell even games that already have a easy mode get their hard mode dumbed down to appeal to the casual market(no idea why). Kingdom Hearts 3 comes to mind.


I always thought of games as for fun, not for bragging rights.

I mean, you can always ask them what they played on? You still have bragging rights for playing it on whatever difficulty you did?

Sure, I guess they can lie, but so can a lot of people about things they beat. Not everyone busts out a picture, after all. And I don't see a lot of people questioning it honestly.
Cruddy_horse
04/05/19 2:06:52 AM
6
wwinterj25 posted...
Nope. Some games appeal is all about challenge. Taking that away by offering easy options defeats the point. I'm not a fan of dark soul style games but those having a easy made would seem very dumb for the reasons above. If someone said they beat a souls style game you know they have put in the time, effort and dedication to do so. Having a easy mode means you can skip all that and still claim you beat it. I'm tired of games being dumbed down to suit the casual market so much. Hell even games that already have a easy mode get their hard mode dumbed down to appeal to the casual market(no idea why). Kingdom Hearts 3 comes to mind.


This x10. I also hate Video game "journalists" with a passion and enjoy it when they whine because they can't mash buttons through a game.
---
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 2:08:05 AM
7
ChaosAzeroth posted...
I always thought of games as for fun, not for bragging rights.


Challenge is fun and rewarding so why not both? As I said it takes away the essence of some games having a easy mode. It serves no reason adding a easy mode other than trying to catch a wider audience an din the process dumbing down your game. If I was interested in a game I'd buy it regardless of how hard it might be. Don't even get me started on the "I don't have time" debate.
---
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ChaosAzeroth
04/05/19 2:11:44 AM
8
wwinterj25 posted...
ChaosAzeroth posted...
I always thought of games as for fun, not for bragging rights.


Challenge is fun and rewarding so why not both? As I said it takes away the essence of some games having a easy mode.


To some it is.

Also what some considering challenging is different than others. What you might not find challenging might be to another person.

I feel like it cuts out a chunk of people with disabilities who would otherwise enjoy the games. You can say that every game isn't for everyone and they should just accept that, but honestly I think that people with some disabilities already have to accept enough as it is and should have a chance to enjoy things.

Also wasn't even thinking about the 'I don't have time' debate. We all know that's why they add in micro transactions. They're not going to cut down a game's difficulty over time, just find a way to sell you stuff.
wwinterj25
04/05/19 2:15:37 AM
9
ChaosAzeroth posted...
to some it is.


"Huur durr guys I really want to play dark souls. It looks appealing to me but I don't like challenge so don't. Give me a easy mode!". This suggest said person didn't care about the game to begin with.

ChaosAzeroth posted...
Also what some considering challenging is different than others. What you might not find challenging might be to another person.


... and what I find a challenge might not be to others. Not sure your point here.

ChaosAzeroth posted...
I feel like it cuts out a chunk of people with disabilities who would otherwise enjoy the games. You can say that every game isn't for everyone and they should just accept that, but honestly I think that people with some disabilities already have to accept enough as it is and should have a chance to enjoy things.


If we built games around folk with disabilities and cater to everyones specific needs we wouldn't have any games. A easy mode also won't suddenly make someoen with no arms be able to play the game for example so your point here is moot.
---
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ParanoidObsessive
04/05/19 2:23:20 AM
10
wwinterj25 posted...
Nope. Some games appeal is all about challenge.

You don't get to be the Grand Universal Arbiter of what is and isn't enjoyable, though. If someone wants to power through Dark Souls and feel like an unstoppable god, who are you to tell them that their fun is wrong?

The mere existence of an Easy mode doesn't somehow magically negate the existence of harder modes. If you feel like a game should be as challenging as possible, feel free to play on the hardest difficulty (or the hardest difficulty you can manage without every fight seeming impossible). Meanwhile, someone who doesn't want to "Git Gud" (or, conversely, "have no life and be able to play the same level of a game over and over and over and over again to become incrementally better at it until muscle memory and pattern recognition finally makes a fight winnable") can play on lower levels and still get their own enjoyment out of the experience. Everyone wins, as opposed to some people winning and telling everyone else to fuck off.

Personally, I absolutely loved The Witcher 3. I also would never have played it if it hadn't come with an Easy mode so I didn't have to fuck around with all the complicated game mechanics they wanted players to experience (screw you and your potion bullshit, Witcher). To me, the existence of an easy mode made that game worthwhile, and the lack of one would have made it hot garbage I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole.

I stopped viewing "being good at games" as some form of personal validation somewhere shortly after going through puberty, so I don't really give a shit what difficulty other people play their games on, nor do I feel obligated to conform to someone else's assumptions about what difficulty I should be playing mine on.


---
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Sahuagin
04/05/19 2:53:28 AM
11
hmm, I wonder what game could have inspired this thread...?

I'm not 100% on it, but I tend to think no. everything that makes a game a game is made better by difficulty (at least for good games; difficulty tends to expose a bad game for what it is, too). if someone doesn't want difficulty, they might be in the wrong medium altogether. a game that isn't challenging is not really a game (it's failing at being a game).

ParanoidObsessive posted...
You don't get to be the Grand Universal Arbiter of what is and isn't enjoyable, though. If someone wants to power through Dark Souls and feel like an unstoppable god, who are you to tell them that their fun is wrong?

their fun isn't "wrong", but their desire to play a game that doesn't actually offer what they're looking for might be.

on the other hand, you sure seem to be strongly implying that people that like good hard games are the ones whose "fun is wrong".

ParanoidObsessive posted...
I stopped viewing "being good at games" as some form of personal validation somewhere shortly after going through puberty

yes yes, you're so mature. curious though, if you don't play games to challenge yourself, why *do* you play them? additionally, what is so wrong with wanting to challenge oneself that requires this kind of snide response? challenging myself is *fun*, games or not.
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 3:03:43 AM
12
ParanoidObsessive posted...
You don't get to be the Grand Universal Arbiter of what is and isn't enjoyable, though. If someone wants to power through Dark Souls and feel like an unstoppable god, who are you to tell them that their fun is wrong?


The entire point of those games is challenge. This isn't a opinion. It's a know fact. I don't buy a football game and expect guns but worse of all shitpost on the internet demanding guns to be added.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
The mere existence of an Easy mode doesn't somehow magically negate the existence of harder modes. If you feel like a game should be as challenging as possible, feel free to play on the hardest difficulty (or the hardest difficulty you can manage without every fight seeming impossible).


Adding a easy modes invites dumbing down of games. Play on the hardiest mode? Yeah the problem with that is some devs are dumbing down those too because having a easy mode isn't enough.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
I stopped viewing "being good at games" as some form of personal validation somewhere shortly after going through puberty, so I don't really give a shit what difficulty other people play their games on, nor do I feel obligated to conform to someone else's assumptions about what difficulty I should be playing mine on.


This isn't about bragging rights. This is taking the very core of the game out just to please casuals who move onto the next hot shit rather quickly anyway. Games should not bend over just to please folk who can't be bothered to play a excellent game just because it doesn't have a easy mode. It's a weird thing when some folk go to a certain style of game and demand it changes everything it's about to suit them rather than you know, actually play games that interest them regardless.
---
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 3:22:52 AM
13
Why would adding an easy mode be so bad? Especially if they change nothing about the normal mode the game would played on without it?
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 3:24:38 AM
14
LinkPizza posted...
Why would adding an easy mode be so bad?


I've gave reasons for that. Why would a easy mode be good? Save for you know a wider audience. Why does a lack of a easy mode suddenly change your interest is a game you are interested in? Why do you think every game should change itself just to suit you?
---
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 3:34:57 AM
15
wwinterj25 posted...
LinkPizza posted...
Why would adding an easy mode be so bad?


I've gave reasons for that. Why would a easy mode be good? Save for you know a wider audience. Why does a lack of a easy mode suddenly change your interest is a game you are interested in? Why do you think every game should change itself just to suit you?

I dont see why having a wider audience is bad. Game developers would probably like it in most cases. And it could add interest for some. Like PO said, he probably wouldnt have played it if it didnt have an easy mode. Ibe also played harder games on easy to understand them, as well... I believe a game called Invisible, Inc. was meant to be played on the hardest setting. But they still had easier modes for newer people. Which helped me (and others) to understand the game. So, it can add interest for some. And I dont think all games should have to cater to everyone. Though, it is nice to try. But I dont see how adding an easy mode makes the game worse for you in any way. But that question could be turned back to you. Why do you think every game should only suit you? And why would having a smaller audience be better in most cases? Also, how would adding an easy mode make the game worse if they dont change anything in the regular mode you would normally play through? Thats kind of an important question. Like, the whole question. Not just part of it...
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Sahuagin
04/05/19 3:38:34 AM
16
LinkPizza posted...
Why would adding an easy mode be so bad? Especially if they change nothing about the normal mode the game would played on without it?

I'm torn on whether I think it would actually be "bad", but for the specific games that we're talking about here, the company's philosophy is that there should be a canonical baseline "normal" for everyone, with everyone sharing the same experience.

the specific game that I think we're talking about here (could be wrong), Sekiro, has the added issue that it's also an action game and not an RPG, meaning that there is little to no "avatar strength", and instead the game is about increasing the skill of the player, not the strength of the character. this means you have no choice at all except to be good at the game. if you have no interest in being good at the game, then you are 100% SOL, and are basically playing the wrong game.

again, I'm torn on this issue and can sort of see both sides. for me, it was hard as fuck, but I managed to beat the game, and it was a truly awesome experience that I wish everyone could have. I don't really see value in making it easier, because it was only such an awesome experience *specifically because* of how hard (and well-designed) it was. allowing it to be easy destroys the experience.
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 3:49:23 AM
17
LinkPizza posted...
I dont see why having a wider audience is bad.


It isn't. Dumbing down your game to achieve that however is.

LinkPizza posted...
Like PO said, he probably wouldnt have played it if it didnt have an easy mode.


That is also a silly reason to not play a game. If you're interested in a game then chances are you'll play it no matter what.

LinkPizza posted...
And I dont think all games should have to cater to everyone. Though, it is nice to try.

Not at the expense of completely changing what your game is about.

LinkPizza posted...
But I dont see how adding an easy mode makes the game worse for you in any way.


Kingdom Hearts 3. Proud mode to be more specific as a example shows exactly my problem.

LinkPizza posted...
Why do you think every game should only suit you? And why would having a smaller audience be better in most cases? Also, how would adding an easy mode make the game worse if they dont change anything in the regular mode you would normally play through? Thats kind of an important question. Like, the whole question. Not just part of it...


1. Makes no sense as I'm demanding nothing. I play games that interest me and ignore ones that don't.
2. Please point out where I said or suggested that.
3. That's a nice thought you have. Still a easy mode will always effect other modes as that's setting the bar on what's easy and what isn't.

The bottom line is FromSoftware haven't bothered adding a easy mode in any of their souls style games simply because they understand why that would be a bad idea. Casuals who watch people play games they have no interest in playing or don't play a game because it lacks a easy mode are thankfully ignored and have been for a while. I don't play souls style games but support devs who want to make the game they want to make and don't bend over to casuals or at least for now anyway. I may give the games a go one day but when I do I certainly don't demand a easy mode before I do.
---
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Sahuagin
04/05/19 3:50:38 AM
18
LinkPizza posted...
I dont see why having a wider audience is bad. (snip)

try rephrasing your question to something like this: "what is wrong with adding an 'easy' mode to a game that is specifically designed not to be easy?"

you're not asking for just some additional feature, you're asking for the game to do something that is completely antithetical to what it is. it's a contradictory request that asks the game to be something that you want it to be, at the expense of what it is trying to be.
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 4:08:01 AM
19
wwinterj25 posted...
That is also a silly reason to not play a game. If you're interested in a game then chances are you'll play it no matter what.

Its not always the case, though. I probably wouldnt have played Invisible, Inc without an easy mode. And a few others, as well. An easy mode can help people decide on getting a game. It can be for many people, even if its not a quality you like for it...

wwinterj25 posted...
Kingdom Hearts 3. Proud mode to be more specific as a example shows exactly my problem.

I dont understand this as I havent play KH3 yet...

wwinterj25 posted...
3. That's a nice thought you have. Still a easy mode will always effect other modes as that's setting the bar on what's easy and what isn't.

But how exactly? I guess I dont understand that. If they make a game exactly as they want. Then make an easy mode after finding a way to make it easier, I dont see how that would take away anything from the base game.

In the end, I personally dont see a problem adding an easy mode to a game as long as it doesnt affect the other modes. So, I guess Ill agree to disagree. Thats just how I feel personally...
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 4:17:26 AM
20
LinkPizza posted...
Its not always the case, though.


That reasoning is simply stupid at best.

LinkPizza posted...
I dont understand this as I havent play KH3 yet...


I've explained this. Kingdom Hearts 3 has a Beginner mode, Standard mode and a Proud mode. Just like past entries. Great you would think right? Wrong. They have made proud mode easy to appeal to a larger audience despite having two other modes that do just that. My mind was blown.

LinkPizza posted...
But how exactly? I guess I dont understand that. If they make a game exactly as they want. Then make an easy mode after finding a way to make it easier, I dont see how that would take away anything from the base game.


It's simply the easy mode sets the bar and then the devs will decide what to apply to the game to make the game harder. So far so good right? Then they start the balancing and ultimately that effects every mode. Just like they did with Kingdom Hearts 3. This doesn't happen with every game thankfully. Devil May Cry 5 has stuck to it's roots but it could have just easy easy gone the other way. Still the point still remains that souls style games won't be souls style games with a easy mode.

LinkPizza posted...
In the end, I personally dont see a problem adding an easy mode to a game as long as it doesnt affect the other modes. So, I guess Ill agree to disagree. Thats just how I feel personally...


It shouldn't matter to you whatever the case as you would probably just watch someone play it anyway. You're right though I'm not going to change my view so you do you I guess.
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Violet_Blooded
04/05/19 4:21:09 AM
21
I'm all for it, i'm not getting any younger and can barely find time to enjoy some video games.. spending this precious time dying over and over is not an option.

So i really like games they call their easy mode "Enjoy the story" mode.. cuz that's exactly what i want to do, 30% Challenge 70% Fun exploring and killing.
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 4:32:16 AM
22
wwinterj25 posted...
That reasoning is simply stupid at best.

To you. But not for everyone. Everyone has different things that attract them to games...

wwinterj25 posted...
I've explained this. Kingdom Hearts 3 has a Beginner mode, Standard mode and a Proud mode. Just like past entries. Great you would think right? Wrong. They have made proud mode easy to appeal to a larger audience despite having two other modes that do just that. My mind was blown.

The problem was making the hard mode too easy. But thats a problem for that game itself. Not all games...

wwinterj25 posted...
It's simply the easy mode sets the bar and then the devs will decide what to apply to the game to make the game harder. So far so good right? Then they start the balancing and ultimately that effects every mode. Just like they did with Kingdom Hearts 3. This doesn't happen with every game thankfully. Devil May Cry 5 has stuck to it's roots but it could have just easy easy gone the other way. Still the point still remains that souls style games won't be souls style games with a easy mode.

What if they did it the other way, then? Like make the hard mode, then balance out other stuff for easy.

wwinterj25 posted...
It shouldn't matter to you whatever the case as you would probably just watch someone play it anyway. You're right though I'm not going to change my view so you do you I guess.

If you really think that, then you havent listened to what I said. I said they are certain games that interest me enough to watch, but not play. But it doesnt do that with all games. For example, not watching anything videos of KH3, RE2, or Spider-Man because I wanted to play them. If I know I dont want to play a game, but still have an interest, then I watch it. Or older games that I havent gotten that someone I already watch is playing. Or something I already played. Things like that. I dont just watch all games just because. I dont know why you would think that, either...
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ParanoidObsessive
04/05/19 5:38:12 AM
23
Sahuagin posted...
if someone doesn't want difficulty, they might be in the wrong medium altogether. a game that isn't challenging is not really a game (it's failing at being a game).

their fun isn't "wrong", but their desire to play a game that doesn't actually offer what they're looking for might be.

Again, though, you're effectively seeking to impose your own view of what is acceptable and what isn't on others.

If someone wants to play a game with an easy mode because they get something out of it that you don't, and don't enjoy playing the same way you do, how does that alter your experience in any meaningful way?



Sahuagin posted...
if you don't play games to challenge yourself, why *do* you play them?

And this is the other side of that particular coin. You're effectively demanding that people who disagree with you be forced to justify their own fun, and will dismiss their reasons out of hand if they don't conform to your narrow view of what gaming should be.

Some people play platformers, some people hate them. Some people love narrative-heavy games like Telltale or Bioware (when it was still good), other people find more than 30 seconds worth of plot annoying. Some people play games like Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy with 37 hours worth of cut-scenes and love them, some people play those same games and skip every single one of those cut-scenes and still love them.

People play games for different reasons, get different things out of them, and two people can easily enjoy the same game in two radically different ways. And the fact that someone else enjoys a game in ways you don't (and vice-versa) doesn't change your personal enjoyment in any way.



Sahuagin posted...
on the other hand, you sure seem to be strongly implying that people that like good hard games are the ones whose "fun is wrong".

Perhaps, but I can also count on no hands the number of times I've demanded that all games should be easy by default and that no game should ever have a hard mode, so I'm calling the moral victory here.

Though to be fair, I'm not even really shitting on people who like difficult games. I'm shitting on the sort of people who seem to define their entire sense of self-worth on their ability to beat difficult games, and feel somehow threatened by the very idea that someone else, somewhere in the world, might be enjoying that same game without suffering quite so much.



Sahuagin posted...
challenging myself is *fun*, games or not.

Again, for you, sure.

But if what you find challenging is too difficult and frustrating to the point of NOT being even remotely fun for someone else, while a third person may find your challenge to be pathetically easy and not even worth wasting their time on, then wouldn't a sliding difficulty scale help improve the experience for everyone?

Plus, different people play in different ways. Some people can devote 12 hours a day to gaming while someone else may have adult responsibilities and can only game for a 2-3 hours a week or so - they're not playing the game in the same way.

Or to complicate matters even more, some recent games have split difficulty settings - so, for example, a game with both combat and puzzles may allow the player to make combat easier but keep puzzles hard (if they prefer the problem solving aspect of the game), or to reduce puzzle difficulty but keep combat hard (if they prefer the fighting game aspect), completely tailoring the entire experience to both their interests and their abilities. How does that do anything but make the game better for everyone?


---
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ParanoidObsessive
04/05/19 5:52:07 AM
24
wwinterj25 posted...
The entire point of those games is challenge.

The whole point for you, yes. If someone else can find fulfillment in those games without challenge, who are you to say they're wrong for doing so?



wwinterj25 posted...
I don't buy a football game and expect guns but worse of all shitpost on the internet demanding guns to be added.

You do go online and make piss-poor false analogies on video game message boards, though.

Saying "I think this game should have a slightly easier mode for people who want to play it" isn't even remotely the same thing, regardless of how you'd like to use flawed rhetoric to argue otherwise.



wwinterj25 posted...
Adding a easy modes invites dumbing down of games. Play on the hardiest mode? Yeah the problem with that is some devs are dumbing down those too because having a easy mode isn't enough.

I'd argue exactly the reverse. There's a vested financial interest for all major studios to make games accessible, because it increases sales. Without the availability of an easy mode, developers are more inclined to make the default experience easier overall. With a sliding difficulty scale, developers can feel more free to make games more difficult and "suggest" which difficulty level they think is best for "experienced gamers", but still allow for an easier experience.

If your complaint is that there aren't enough really challenging games out there, you should be MORE in favor of easy mode, not less.



wwinterj25 posted...
This isn't about bragging rights.

Yes it is.



wwinterj25 posted...
This is taking the very core of the game out just to please casuals who move onto the next hot shit rather quickly anyway.

And this is how I know it's about bragging rights.

You're basically proving my point that your argument is more rooted in your sense of moral superiority than anything else - how else can you prove how hardcore of a gamer you are if developers keep putting easy mode in their games so even the filthy casuals can enjoy them?



wwinterj25 posted...
It's a weird thing when some folk go to a certain style of game and demand it changes everything it's about to suit them rather than you know, actually play games that interest them regardless.

I still find it weirder that some people absolutely cannot enjoy something unless they know that other people aren't allowed to be part of the club.

It's like the video game equivalent of being a hipster. And no one likes hipsters. Not even other hipsters.


---
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ParanoidObsessive
04/05/19 6:08:15 AM
25
wwinterj25 posted...
The bottom line is FromSoftware haven't bothered adding a easy mode in any of their souls style games simply because they understand why that would be a bad idea.

They actually discussed the idea at one point, and the more toxic and vocal side of their fanbase exploded like a fecal hurricane over how much of an outrage it was that the filthy casuals might be allowed to enjoy their precious little baby. So they backed off from the idea.

The backlash to that particular discussion is a large part of why I tend to think most people who argue against the idea of easy mode are generally just gatekeeping assholes who want to retain their feelings of special snowflake-ness rather than having any real logical or justifiable reason why restricting game experiences are somehow more worthwhile than finding ways to make them more accessible without impacting the base experience.



wwinterj25 posted...
That is also a silly reason to not play a game. If you're interested in a game then chances are you'll play it no matter what.

The sheer number of people who've said at various times that they'd play a given game except it seems too hard (something that often comes up in discussions of Dark Souls or similar games) sort of puts paid to that particular assumption.

Not every game can be Super Meat Boy or I Wanna Be the Guy.



wwinterj25 posted...
I've gave reasons for that.

You really only gave one reason, and it wasn't a very good one.



wwinterj25 posted...
Why would a easy mode be good? Save for you know a wider audience.

So you acknowledge that an easy mode would increase the potential audience, thus implying you know full well that an easy mode would appeal to plenty of people.

Why does the idea of other people enjoying something terrify you so?



wwinterj25 posted...
Why does a lack of a easy mode suddenly change your interest is a game you are interested in?

Why does the potential presence of an easy mode suddenly change your interest in a game you are interested in?



wwinterj25 posted...
Why do you think every game should change itself just to suit you?

Why do you think every game should cater to you and you alone?


---
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Keebs05
04/05/19 6:19:41 AM
26
I feel like most games are already set pretty easily with the exception of the infamously hard games like the Dark Souls or Shinobis. That being said, I play games to decompress after a rough day at work, not get even more aggravated so bring on the easy mode!
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LaggnFragnLarry
04/05/19 6:36:05 AM
27
yes
KJ StErOiDs
04/05/19 9:28:41 AM
28
No; it should in no way be mandatory...though at the same time I wouldn't object to the publishers making that disclaimer to potential customers.

I can understand peoples' reasons for wanting an easy mode, but there are a lot of things people want in a game, for a lot of reasons.
---
A plethora of DKC-related fanart to numb your mind:
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Peachi
04/05/19 9:40:43 AM
29
ChaosAzeroth posted...
Why not?
You don't have to use it, after all.

---
DeepThroat0 posted...
Nomura is a terra-ble writer.
Clearwine
04/05/19 9:43:26 AM
30
I have a young niece who likes Nier's storyline and beat the game for the sake of the story. Same deal with Amalur. It broke my heart when she had to ask me to play Dark Souls games cuz she loves the setting and story, but it's too hard for her.

So, yes.
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Beer... making me dance with ugly men since 1995.
Lokarin
04/05/19 9:44:40 AM
31
All games are easy mode... GOML
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"Salt cures Everything!"
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Far-Queue
04/05/19 9:52:34 AM
32
Yes, with a caveat.

I'm all for inclusion, and making games accessible. There are many gamers with disabilities, or gamers who simply lack the skill or the time to invest in improving said skill, who may enjoy a more difficult game if some of the harder parts were softened some.

If developers and publishers want to maximize their potential profits, making their games accessible is a no-brainer. Some people might be put off by a game's reputation for being difficult and won't bother purchasing a game for fear of wasting their money on something they can't complete, even when they may enjoy the core gameplay/story/etc.

That said, I'm also all for the devs artistic vision for their games. If they are seeking to create a carefully crafted experience for their fans, and it happens to make the game inaccessible or less fun for some, well them's the breaks. A developer shouldn't be pressed to change their game for a disenfranchised minority, barring the aforementioned need to generate more revenue.
---
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wwinterj25
04/05/19 10:28:05 AM
33
LinkPizza posted...
The problem was making the hard mode too easy. But thats a problem for that game itself. Not all games...


Clearly not all games as some thankfully don't bother with a easy mode at all.

LinkPizza posted...
What if they did it the other way, then? Like make the hard mode, then balance out other stuff for easy.


Hard modes require the most work. Case in point Kingdom Hearts 3 is getting a critical mode as DLC. They are currently working on balancing.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
They actually discussed the idea at one point, and the more toxic and vocal side of their fanbase exploded like a fecal hurricane over how much of an outrage it was that the filthy casuals might be allowed to enjoy their precious little baby. So they backed off from the idea.


Probably for the best. They made the right choice.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
The sheer number of people who've said at various times that they'd play a given game except it seems too hard (something that often comes up in discussions of Dark Souls or similar games) sort of puts paid to that particular assumption.


Yeah I've not seen many folk say this. Still again if you're interested in a game it being too hard shouldn't change that. If it does then it suggests you are not that bothered to begin with. Mind you the casual market is very fickle.

ParanoidObsessive posted...
Why does the idea of other people enjoying something terrify you so?

Why does the potential presence of an easy mode suddenly change your interest in a game you are interested in?

Why do you think every game should cater to you and you alone?


1. Dumbing down games for the casual market is what irks me.

2. It doesn't. It however can make the experience less enjoyable when you get even the harder modes dumbed down to be more accessible. It's simply a slippery slope.

3. I'm demanding nothing. I don't play souls games but respect the style of game it is. I don'y play many FPS games but again respect the style of game it is. The list goes on and on. If I want a certain experience I go and find it in the games that offer that and I don't demand every game chances to suit that.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
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ChaoticKnuckles
04/05/19 11:09:52 AM
34
Not necessarily. Im all for additional options as long as they dont conflict with the developers vision for the game. If the game isnt meant to have an easy mode, then no it shouldnt have one.
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You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI.
supness420
04/05/19 11:11:38 AM
35
wwinterj25 posted...
LinkPizza posted...
Why would adding an easy mode be so bad?


I've gave reasons for that. Why would a easy mode be good? Save for you know a wider audience. Why does a lack of a easy mode suddenly change your interest is a game you are interested in? Why do you think every game should change itself just to suit you?


What I hear:

"Why would it be good... aside from more players, more interest, more word of mouth advertising for the game, more people get to enjoy it, and it does not hurt people playing hard mode at all, really, aside from all of those reasons... why would it be good? Also, it gives the the developers lead way to add an impossible mode for those who are really good at the game, so I ask you, why is adding an option good? All it does potentially make the game more enjoyable for more people while not effecting those who already enjoy it. That is dumb!"

LOL!!!

Some people seem to think along these lines: "While someone plays Guitar Hero, if a second player beats 'Slow Ride' on 'Easy Mode', then that absolutely makes it pointless for the first player to beat 'Through the Fire and the Flames' on 'Expert Mode'. The first player has no idea why the developers gave an 'Easy Option'. The first player feels that his or her accomplishments Have been invalidated'.

This is insane to me...

PS. I have beat Sekiro, adding an easy mode(that I would never play) would not upset me at all, nor would adding and even more difficult mode(that I also would never play). Options are good!
---
Common sense has changed as the common person's sense is idiotic; therefore, I am happy to say I am not common, and I have no common sense.
InfestedAdam
04/05/19 11:12:28 AM
36
I'd say yes. Fun is relative. How others play the game will have little to no bearing on my gaming experience. I'm not gonna suggest others don't deserve to experience the story or see some special ending, especially with YouTube nowadays, just because they didn't play on a certain difficulty level.
---
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PrincessAnna2
04/05/19 11:16:20 AM
37
Yes, definitely.
---
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ninja_lootz
04/05/19 11:44:47 AM
38
There are more games than anyone could possibly play in their entire lives. If one is too difficult for you, then simply choose another.
---
MY HELMET'S ON
YOU CAN'T TELL ME I'M NOT IN SPACE
wwinterj25
04/05/19 12:33:17 PM
39
ninja_lootz posted...
There are more games than anyone could possibly play in their entire lives. If one is too difficult for you, then simply choose another.


No, no! Every game MUST cater to me and me only!
---
One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
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Far-Queue
04/05/19 12:40:41 PM
40
supness420 posted...
PS. I have beat Sekiro, adding an easy mode(that I would never play) would not upset me at all, nor would adding and even more difficult mode(that I also would never play). Options are good!

Modders already have added easy mode to Sekiro on PC:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/5/18296678/sekiro-easy-mode-mod-pc
---
https://imgur.com/ZwO4qO2
Bluer than velvet was the night... Softer than satin was the light... From the stars...
Sahuagin
04/05/19 12:43:33 PM
41
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Again, though, you're effectively seeking to impose your own view of what is acceptable and what isn't on others.

"challenge" is baked into the definition of "game". sorry if you don't like challenge, but something trying to be a "game" with no challenge is not really a game, it's a toy at best, or a "visual interactive experience" or something at worst. this isn't me "imposing my view"; that is *what a game is*.

that said, a game can still be challenging without being brutally difficult, but in this case we're talking about a game that is specifically designed to be brutally difficult. It's not "my view" that it's designed that way, that's the underlying design philosophy of this particular game, independent of what I think about it.

some random game? sure give it an easy mode. a game whose whole philosophy is overcoming steep challenges? no, don't give it an easy mode, that defeats the whole concept of what that game is about.
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_AdjI_
04/05/19 12:44:29 PM
42
wwinterj25 posted...
If someone said they beat a souls style game you know they have put in the time, effort and dedication to do so.


The only people who care enough about video games to be impressed by you beating a hard one would need you to follow "I beat dark souls" with "In less than two hours" to be at all impressed. To that end, having to append "on hard mode" in order to make it a remotely impressive claim doesn't change that much.

You talk about easy modes devaluing the achievement that is beating the game? That achievement never had any value beyond the enjoyment you had doing it. If an easy mode devalues that, that's purely because you choose to see it that way. Nothing more.
LinkPizza
04/05/19 12:48:57 PM
43
Sahuagin posted...
ParanoidObsessive posted...
Again, though, you're effectively seeking to impose your own view of what is acceptable and what isn't on others.

"challenge" is baked into the definition of "game". sorry if you don't like challenge, but something trying to be a "game" with no challenge is not really a game, it's a toy at best, or a "visual interactive experience" or something at worst. this isn't me "imposing my view"; that is *what a game is*.

that said, a game can still be challenging without being brutally difficult, but in this case we're talking about a game that is specifically designed to be brutally difficult. It's not "my view" that it's designed that way, that's the underlying design philosophy of this particular game, independent of what I think about it.

some random game? sure give it an easy mode. a game whose whole philosophy is overcoming steep challenges? no, don't give it an easy mode, that defeats the whole concept of what that game is about.

That would be wrong, though. A game does not have to be challenging to be a game. It just has to be fun. If you have more fun with gamers that are challenging, theres. Othing wrong with that. Everybody likes different games. But game dont have to be challenging to be a game. It just has to be fun...
---
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Sahuagin
04/05/19 12:50:39 PM
44
LinkPizza posted...
A game does not have to be challenging to be a game. It just has to be fun.

a "game" that is not challenging and is only fun is a toy, not a game.
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 12:52:29 PM
45
Sahuagin posted...
LinkPizza posted...
A game does not have to be challenging to be a game. It just has to be fun.

a "game" that is not challenging and is only fun is a toy, not a game.

No. Its a game. Just because you like the challenge doesnt mean is not a game without it. Its literally doesnt have to be challenging. I dont even know where youre getting that idea from. Its still a game.
---
Official King of Kings
Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around.
ninja_lootz
04/05/19 12:53:02 PM
46
wwinterj25 posted...
ninja_lootz posted...
There are more games than anyone could possibly play in their entire lives. If one is too difficult for you, then simply choose another.


No, no! Every game MUST cater to me and me only!

I still want to know hat my posting habits are.
---
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YOU CAN'T TELL ME I'M NOT IN SPACE
Sahuagin
04/05/19 12:57:18 PM
47
LinkPizza posted...
No. Its a game. Just because you like the challenge doesnt mean is not a game without it. Its literally doesnt have to be challenging. I dont even know where youre getting that idea from. Its still a game.

what do you think a "game" is, if it doesn't have to be challenging? jumping up and down on a bed can be "fun", but it's not a "game" in the way we're discussing here.

a "game" is something like a competition between two parties and within a particular set of rules whereby decisions made within those rules directly affect the outcome of the competition. note: competition. in a 1-player game, you are competing with the environment (PvE). a game with no challenge has no competition, and is not actually a game. it's still something else, it's interactive media, but it's not a "game".
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LinkPizza
04/05/19 1:02:32 PM
48
A game in itself can be multiple things. Even the first definition in the dictionary says:

ZNJwDNa

Video games are just electronic version. Again, some people have fun because of be challenge part. Other have fun because others are around. In the end, all that matters is a game is fun. If you didnt have fun with a game because it had no challenge. Thats fine. But it ABSOLUTELY does not make it not a game with no challenge. A game does not need to be challenging to be a game. I will not change my stance on that at all because Im not wrong. You are wrong if you think the only thing that makes a game a game is if it is challenging.
---
Official King of Kings
Switch FC: 7216-4417-4511 Add Me because I'll probably add you. I'm probably the LinkPizza you'll see around.
supness420
04/05/19 1:02:39 PM
49
Sahuagin posted...
LinkPizza posted...
No. Its a game. Just because you like the challenge doesnt mean is not a game without it. Its literally doesnt have to be challenging. I dont even know where youre getting that idea from. Its still a game.

what do you think a "game" is, if it doesn't have to be challenging? jumping up and down on a bed can be "fun", but it's not a "game" in the way we're discussing here.

a "game" is something like a competition between two parties and within a particular set of rules whereby decisions made within those rules directly affect the outcome of the competition. note: competition. in a 1-player game, you are competing with the environment (PvE). a game with no challenge has no competition, and is not actually a game. it's still something else, it's interactive media, but it's not a "game".


Minecraft, the sims, farmville, and many others say hi!
---
Common sense has changed as the common person's sense is idiotic; therefore, I am happy to say I am not common, and I have no common sense.
supness420
04/05/19 1:08:00 PM
50
Far-Queue posted...
supness420 posted...
PS. I have beat Sekiro, adding an easy mode(that I would never play) would not upset me at all, nor would adding and even more difficult mode(that I also would never play). Options are good!

Modders already have added easy mode to Sekiro on PC:

https://www.polygon.com/2019/4/5/18296678/sekiro-easy-mode-mod-pc


And the world did not explode? I thought for sure an easy mode would erase the achievements for everyone's steam/psn/live accounts. I am checking mine now! LOL

Honestly, that makes me happy. I do not know why people are so angry about that kind of thing. Adding options to games almost always help. Sad that probably only PC players will be able to experience it.
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Common sense has changed as the common person's sense is idiotic; therefore, I am happy to say I am not common, and I have no common sense.
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