Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 493 - Rise of Shadows Is Upon Us

(+) Yeah! (+)

So my friend doesn't clear his quests, I told him, give me your phone.

Rank 20 wild, I was reminded how much I hate Frost Lich Jaina. I am glad that she is wild only and basically never played at rank 5, cause fuck that card.
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Geez, Kokoro, you've got some serious hate of rogue going on right now. Like, I see other people complaining about rogue, too, notably Regis put out a video about Hearthstone's supposed rogue problem. I don't feel bad playing against rogue though and seem to do okay. I've also played a lot of rogue and although I win more than I lose, I don't get the impression I'm playing a completely imbalanced deck.

There are plenty of other builds in the meta right now that feel like I have to be very careful how I'm playing or I'm just going to get run over. I think the biggest problem right now is that there are a few really good decks, and if you aren't playing one of those, you're just going to get destroyed because nothing else even comes close. But I actually enjoy playing rogue, which is not something I can say about those other decks other than maybe dragon mage, and that does feel busted.

However, consistently the deck I feel oppressed by -- on rogue or not -- is warrior. You basically have to generate a wide board quickly, attempt to beat it down, and pray they don't draw Brawl or Dr. Boom. If the game goes to turn 10, you're in for a very long, slow, painful death.
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I usually only beat warrior by outvaluing it with espionage and tess. Bit that requires my card draw appearing at the right time
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Warrior isnt terrible if you go tall super early, a lot of builds Ive noticed are cutting execute and dont run Owl so as long as their armor isnt very high youre in a good spot

Going tall in the late game is so tough thanks to Devastator though, its also a yeti mech so it can trade well and get rush with boom. Its winnable with some decks (Mage, Shaman, And Warlock post Rafaam in particular) but thats when Aggro and Midrange have issues
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Honestly, the answer to warrior seems to be mech decks. Mechs can go tall thanks to magnetic, dodge one of Warrior's most important removal tools in Dyn-o'-matic, and tend to have deathrattles.
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Rogue has had a tier one or high tier 2 deck in just about every single meta I can think of. Like look at the world champion brawl we just had, Rogue is the only class all four (+1 from Hunterace) champions brought (Gadget Miracle, Oil, Malygos, Keleseth Tempo, Raiding Party (Thief variant) Tempo). Within those metas too other rogue decks have been extremely good to decent too, like Quest, normal pirate tempo, deathrattle, etc.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Rogue has had a tier one or high tier 2 deck in just about every single meta I can think of. Like look at the world champion brawl we just had, Rogue is the only class all four (+1 from Hunterace) champions brought (Gadget Miracle, Oil, Malygos, Keleseth Tempo, Raiding Party (Thief variant) Tempo). Within those metas too other rogue decks have been extremely good to decent too, like Quest, normal pirate tempo, deathrattle, etc.

worth noting, the rogue decks brought to worlds were not always dominant on ladder.

This time Hunterace did basically have a ladder deck, but Viper (his opponent) had a miracle deck with Gadgetzan Auctioneers, Questing Adventurers, Viiolet Teachers, and Wanted!

You won't see that deck on ladder.

Rogue just frequently seems to have these high-skill decks with potential, which means it gets brought to tournaments even when it's not big on ladder.
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My Control Warrior just got outvalued and destroyed by that new-ish Midrange Hunter list that is getting popular. I was cruising to rank 5 until I hit it.
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There's a Specialist tournament going on...

BoarControl - Rogue
Feno - Rogue
Firebat - Rogue
Muzzy - Rogue
Orange - Rogue
RDU - Rogue
Reynad - Rogue
Strifecro - Rogue
Zalae - Rogue

Deathstar - Hunter
Justsaiyan - Hunter

RayC - Warrior
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Grats, RayC?
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I don't even understand how League of Legends works and I'd rather watch an LoL tournament for 6 hours than have to sit through another game of this specialist format stuff.

It's the same exact game over and over again. It's awful.
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https://twitter.com/firebat/status/1124791407863062534?s=19
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davidponte posted...

It's the same exact game over and over again. It's awful.

This was my fear when they announced the format. Idk if it's actually possible to balance Hearthstone in such a way that every class has a viable tournament (specialist) deck, but I'm fairly certain Team 5 isn't capable of pulling it off.

No-one is going to watch a 3 class tournament that's majority mirror matches.
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The way the system is right now (with class cards/classic set etc) having real balance is difficult. That and the balance philosophy has clearly been to have certain classes be stronger or weaker in a given expansion. This combined with the small overall card pool (compared to other games) means that a lot of changes have to happen for specialist to succeed.

What I also think should alarm blizzard is the large number of big hearthstone personalities that are leaving the game or just not playing as much. It's fine that notable names are still winning championships, but when some of your top twitch players either barely play or only splits time between other game (like dog and toast) or just quit outright (like Hafu and pretty much Amaz) I think you have an issue.
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I just hit the turn limit for the first time ever in a game I was almost certainly going to lose. It only took 41 minutes!
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KokoroAkechi posted...

but when some of your top twitch players either barely play or only splits time between other game (like dog and toast) or just quit outright (like Hafu and pretty much Amaz) I think you have an issue.

Depends on why they quit. The game has been out for 5 years. Those people are allowed to get tired of even the best game in the world if they're playing it daily for hours and hours as their job.
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Hafu has come out specifically that shes not happy with the state of the game and that she feels like a complete overhaul is needed. Amaz has not been a big fan for quite a while now imo.

I feel like dog has basically reached the peak of what someone who does well on ladder can do but he just lacks the real will and discipline to preform on a tournament stage. Its notable that he has far less tournament experience than most top level players because he doesn't like to travel for them.

Even someone like toast, who still plays a lot, has more than once jokingly said that he'd pretty much be fine with leaving the game if he could make the same revenue playing something else full time along with his offlinetv partnership, and while I say it was a joke I do believe he does mean it. Toast specifically, due to the nature of his content, has not always been happy with the management team. And has said himself that one of the reasons why there had been distancing between them is due to a small fallout between them.
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I think I've said this before, but Hearthstone is not good as a "sit at your PC and play this for 8 hours game". It is, however, basically the best mobile game that I've found, which is why I'm probably playing it more now than I was when it first launched. (And I play a few different mobile games; for a while Fire Emblem Heroes unseated it for top spot, but lately FEH is just a lot of grind to me). It's also a pretty good streaming game, because it gives you lots of time to talk to your audience.

But for professional Hearthstone streamers and pro tournament players...yeah, their job becomes "sit at your PC and play Hearthstone for 8 hours", which as I've said above is a pretty meh experience.

I don't know that they necessarily should be focusing on improving the 8-hour PC experience either. I remember being pretty frustrated at Hearthstone a couple years ago when I frequently couldn't complete daily quests on mobile during breaks from work, cause stuff like "win 5 games with warrior" just was not happening on mobile during half hour work shift breaks. (Obviously these quests were designed when Hearthstone was just a PC game). Stuff that would make Hearthstone feel more gratifying for people who play it for hours is stuff that would probably feel frustrating to mobile users. IDK, doesn't seem like an easy problem to solve.
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Honestly think as long as Kripp stays then theres no real need to worry about twitch personalities.

The other good thing is that theres no other good alternative to go to. Like I guess the closest is MTGA but I dont think thats as entertaining as the RNG elements in Hearthstone. I think the only one who has actually done anything after quitting is Forsen
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Forsen is great
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A few things I learned from streams this weekend:

People are putting Wisp into Rogue (combo activator)

People are putting Giggling Inventor into Rogue (synergizes with Shadow Step, Waggle Pick, and Witchy Lacky)

Apparently warriors in high legend are basically all Mech'a'thun Warriors

A stupid deck that Dog made to entertain his stream might actually be good (Mech'a'thun Shaman with Jepetto, double giggling inventor, Shudderwock. Uses Voodoo Doll+Zap to activate the combo, plays around Unseen Saboteur by holding double zap. Wins faster than Mech'a'thun Warrior thanks to Spirit of the Frog).
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In addition to nearly every single one of them feeling the need to BM, I've now had a second Bomb Warrior friend request me after the game to bitch about how I only won because I didn't draw their bombs. I've now had the same amount of Bomb Warrior friend requests solely to bitch at me as I've had random friend requests from everyone else in the last five years combined.
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You must have played exactly four games of Hearthstone in that time period.
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Long four games.
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Tempostorm's wild meta snapshot recommends Hench Clan Hogsteed in wild Even Warlock.

I tried it out (two instead of one, cause testing) and yeah, so far I'm actually really liking it. Extra removal and early plays against the aggro decks that kill you super fast. Something you can play while playing around mass hysteria that literally every Priest seems to have on turn 5.

Meanwhile, that Japanese player with the wild corpsetaker walking fountain even shaman is back with another variant running Eureka now (instead of Earthen Might). Probably a good change, since the deck runs four 8-cost minions (mostly to activate corpsetaker) but games are often decided before turn 8. Whereas Earthen Might--the only elementals in the deck are the 8 cost minions, so it was literally a +2/+2 (which can still be fine on a corpsetaker or a healing totem, but it was probably the lowest impact card in the deck).
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My opponent played giggling Inventor and I played 2 hyenas, unleash, and a springpaw+lynx to hit him for 34 damage in one turn.
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did you have a Rhino out?
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i logged on to do my quest because i keep forgetting to do it (btw i have play a friend AND view a friend so i have to do those). And like I queued shudderwock shaman and played Token Druid (loss), some priest (win), Mech hunter (win).

But my last match was against a control warrior. Like after a lot of playing I'm pretty sure this is a bad matchup for me and it was really bad because hagatha was my second to last card (I would have lost if it was my last card). But I didn't lose... I also didn't win. The turn limit happened.
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azuarc posted...

did you have a Rhino out?

I had the two hyenas out
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I put out a 3rd hyena on the unleash turn but she didn't matter.
. Also they were +3/+3 hyenas to begin with
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Tavern Brawl this week has nine premade decks with unique hero powers, but you can't play as three of the classes because four of the nine decks are Rogue. It's literally ladder.
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Tip

You. Can concede the brawl 3 times to get the quest done. Still have to win one though for the classic pack
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Who wants 80 gold?
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I've been playing the brawl and trying out 8/9 of them so far. Usually winning on the first, sometimes the second try with each, so I think the balance is better than people give it credit for (still have to do the weird warrior one, though).

Camden posted...

but you can't play as three of the classes because four of the nine decks are Rogue.

I mean, from what I remember some of these decks had cards from two different classes in them, and only one of the rogues actually has a weapon so like...it's really not a big deal that they are "technically" rogues. (There's definitely a few that I've won with where I'm not actually sure what class it was supposed to be).
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Solo Adventure details are out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwoqrKuCImU" data-time="

Basic info: Opens on the 16th with one free wing and one paid wing, and adds another paid wing for the next three weeks after that.

It seems like they added a bunch of new features, but Im not sure how much they really help replayability for me.

Good News: I got my four packs for picking Bunnyhoppor today, and I opened two legendaries and a golden legendary in them. Incredible luck.

Bad News: I opened all three of them on the Asia server, which I use pretty much exclusively for arena. Salt level is dangerously high.
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got my 6 packs for picking Hunterace
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My hunterace packs got me Gral the Shark and Akali the Rhino

huh
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Hit level 60 with Shaman, only two classes left to go. I don't particularly like playing Rogue, but the alternative is Druid and I'm not sure I'll ever get that class to 60.
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My Muzzy pack (singular) didn't get me shit. (3 commons 2 rares).

Not sure yet how I feel about single player in terms of purchasing it. Like...I did gladly paid full price for Slay the Spire, and it does look like they are trying to imitate that game. Unlocking new hero powers by doing multiple runs, having shops where you can pay them to remove a card from your deck or buy a card from them. This is all sounds very Slay the Spire-esque.

On the other hand, it's still going to use a hearthstone shell--Slay the Spire enemies would announce their attacks and you'd respond to them. Single playre hearthstone the enemy has cards that are hidden from you and an AI that feels unpredictable. Slay the Spire you retain damage between combats, so small mistakes even if you win add up. Hearthstone, if you win, it doesn't matter. I'm not sure if they can capture what makes Slay the Spire such a good game just by having a bunch of unlockables and having the actual gameplay taking the hearthstone shell which is designed more for multiplayer.
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Camden posted...

Hit level 60 with Shaman, only two classes left to go. I don't particularly like playing Rogue, but the alternative is Druid and I'm not sure I'll ever get that class to 60.

Rogue is the only class I've gotten to 500. It's kinda funny, because I never play the truly annoying rogue decks like quest rogue or miracle or the current tempo deck, but I still have like 1300 wins in rogue. (And I think I might have very recently gotten gold with shaman, but nothing else is even close.)

VeryInsane posted...

My hunterace packs got me Gral the Shark and Akali the Rhino

I opened 8 packs yesterday, a standard, a RoS pack, and my six from Hunterace. The standard gave me a legendary (Black Knight). The RoS pack gave me a legendary (Nozari). However, Hunterace's packs yielded but one epic and five rares.
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Oh yeah, did go back and get a clear with the final class in tavern brawl (Mr Chu).

God he sucks. Mostly 9 drops, with a few shield blocks, dr boom's scheme, brawl type cards, but an awful hero power for that kind of deck (a weaker version of Even Hunter's hero power WTF. Like...I would much rather vanilla armour up for this kind of deck).

Took like 7 tries, I had to queue into Russel the Bard to win. (Which...I think Russel the Bard is severely underrated; won first try with that character. Cabal Shadowpriest as a hero power is fantastic. But Cabal Shadowpriest is a weak hero power when your opponent has literally no minions *taps forehead*).
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azuarc posted...

Rogue is the only class I've gotten to 500. It's kinda funny, because I never play the truly annoying rogue decks like quest rogue or miracle or the current tempo deck, but I still have like 1300 wins in rogue. (And I think I might have very recently gotten gold with shaman, but nothing else is even close.)

I don't have any Picks, Edwin or Myras, so tempo is out for me. Played Togwaggle/Leeroy last night, won both my games without ever playing the Quad City Leeroys by just beating my opponent down with lackeys and eventually Eviscerates.

The last time I played Druid on ladder, Savage Roar/Force of Nature was still a combo.
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Camden posted...

The last time I played Druid on ladder, Savage Roar/Force of Nature was still a combo.

Yikes.

And the rogue deck I fiddle with right now is a tempo variant, but it's not the beatdown style everyone's running. More of a thief rogue. I do pretty well with it. Warrior's really the only bad match-up.
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Ive gotten gold at everything

I think my most is Hunter but Warlock nearly caught up with it since I really like playing Zoo for some weird reason
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