Board 8 > Sales of Judge Eyes halted in Japan after Pierre Taki gets busted for cocaine

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HashtagSEP
03/14/19 4:16:46 PM
51
Like, that argument basically sounds like "Well, I accidentally stepped on Tommy's toe. Might as well stab him in the jugular since he's already in pain, right?"
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Xiahou Shake
03/14/19 4:16:53 PM
52
Yeah people saying drug addicts are at all comparable to alcoholics are really showing their lack of firsthand experience here. Which isn't bad in itself, I wouldn't wish those experiences on anyone, but recognize that you're arguing from a position of ignorance at least.
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Nrrr
03/14/19 4:23:54 PM
53
I don't think everyone who believes drug possession should be decriminalized is saying that anyone should be able to buy any amount of any drug. I can't even do that with most harmless medication. Nor should they be saying that drug addicts should be free to continue being a danger to others, just that rehabilitation and treatment are better than jail.
Kenri
03/14/19 4:25:59 PM
54
HashtagSEP posted...
I could see this argument for saying there should be tougher laws on alcohol, but not as an argument for why all recreational drugs should be legal

Well to be fair we've tried the former already.

Lopen posted...
Unless you're supposing that, somehow, I've met a lot more meth addicts than alcoholics, the dichotomy is a lot closer to universal than you're implying.

I'm supposing that maybe you shouldn't judge this off your personal anecdotes at all.
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HashtagSEP
03/14/19 4:26:08 PM
55
Nrrr posted...
I don't think everyone who believes drug possession should be decriminalized is saying that anyone should be able to buy any amount of any drug. I can't even do that with most harmless medication. Nor should they be saying that drug addicts should be free to continue being a danger to others, just that rehabilitation and treatment are better than jail.


Actually, that's a huge problem this country is facing and one of the reasons why legalizing every recreational drug, even with regulation, would not be easy. There is a huge problem with over-prescribing/controlling prescription drugs as it is.
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HashtagSEP
03/14/19 4:26:54 PM
56
Kenri posted...
Well to be fair we've tried the former already.


Yeah but "Hmm we can't get tougher on alcohol. Better just open the floodgates on everything" doesn't seem too wise a response.
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Kenri
03/14/19 4:28:54 PM
57
HashtagSEP posted...
Yeah but "Hmm we can't get tougher on alcohol. Better just open the floodgates on everything" doesn't seem too wise a response.

More like "hmm prohibition made things worse and the war on drugs made things worse, maybe it's time we stop making things worse". You can get tough on alcohol/other drugs through more effective methods than our shitty legal system.
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Lopen
03/14/19 4:32:25 PM
58
Kenri posted...
I'm supposing that maybe you shouldn't judge this off your personal anecdotes at all.


I'm supposing my personal anecdotes, given how extreme and frequently they have occurred, are worth more than anything you can attempt to bring to the discussion here in your current state of knowledge and experience.

You're basically being Vlado telling us how America is here like he knows anything. You're completely out of your depth, and it shows very glaringly.
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Lopen
03/14/19 4:33:48 PM
59
Like this is basically the equivalent to me saying "the sky is blue I saw it outside" and you being like "no this study told me it was green that's just an anecdote." It really is that bad.
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Kenri
03/14/19 4:49:54 PM
60
Lopen posted...
Kenri posted...
I'm supposing that maybe you shouldn't judge this off your personal anecdotes at all.


I'm supposing my personal anecdotes, given how extreme and frequently they have occurred, are worth more than anything you can attempt to bring to the discussion here in your current state of knowledge and experience.

You're basically being Vlado telling us how America is here like he knows anything. You're completely out of your depth, and it shows very glaringly.

Right back at you I guess? If you're gonna say "research won't convince me even if you cite it, only my lived experiences count" then I don't see any reason to believe your lived experiences over my own.
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Lopen
03/14/19 4:51:31 PM
61
Show me the research you cited of peace disruptions per user vs magnitude of disruptions caused by meth addicts relative to alcoholics

I'll wait
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Nrrr
03/14/19 4:53:54 PM
62
The only place you'll find anyone interested in the number of "peace disruptions" by different kinds of neighbors is on nextdoor
Kenri
03/14/19 4:54:34 PM
63
Lopen posted...
Show me the research you cited of peace disruptions per user vs magnitude of disruptions caused by meth addicts relative to alcoholics

If you think "peace disruptions" are the worst thing caused by addiction I've already won this argument.
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Lopen
03/14/19 4:56:37 PM
64
I guess if embracing your ignorance is winning the argument, yeah, you've won it. Don't presume to know what people have to go through living near or around hard drug addicts. Laws are to protect bystanders not offenders.
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Kenri
03/14/19 4:58:29 PM
65
Lopen posted...
Don't presume to know what people have to go through living near or around hard drug addicts.

Why not, you've been doing it all topic?

Lopen posted...
Laws are to protect bystanders

lol okay
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Lopen
03/14/19 5:03:13 PM
66
It's not presuming if you've lived through it.

Like I think you have this false image in your mind, when I say "peace disruption" that I'm speaking from the viewpoint of some guy in an ivory tower who gets his feathers ruffled when the peasantry below him dares make some noise. Not from the point of view of a person who regularly had to live through months on end of like 1-2 hours of sleep, has a mother who has severe depression and anxiety issues to this day due to being threatened by these types of people for years, etc etc

The true irony is that you're the one in the ivory tower in this discussion, since you clearly have never met a drug addict in your life.
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Gatarix
03/14/19 5:04:02 PM
67
Kenri posted...
You can get tough on alcohol/other drugs through more effective methods than our shitty legal system.

Like how?

(I agree the legal system is doing a spectacularly bad job controlling things, but I'm not sure how else one would "get tough" on drugs)
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Mac Arrowny
03/14/19 5:11:53 PM
68
I assume targeting alcohol/drug related crimes would be the best method? Like going harder on drunk driving and drug addicts disturbing the peace and such.
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ninkendo
03/14/19 5:16:26 PM
69
I don't care about any of this I'm just concerned for my Judge Eyes ;_;
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Bane_Of_Despair
03/14/19 5:17:02 PM
70
I'll judge your eyes
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Arti
03/14/19 5:20:26 PM
71
Lopen
03/14/19 5:23:32 PM
72
Mac Arrowny posted...
I assume targeting alcohol/drug related crimes would be the best method? Like going harder on drunk driving and drug addicts disturbing the peace and such.


I actually agree that the problem is mostly on targeting infractions like that

Unlike what Kenri will tell you (cause always without question, fuck the man, right? always value human rights even when they're infringing on others as long as it's not you they're infringing on) the big thing is that the system is too lenient on stuff like that right now. If you say, call the cops because you haven't slept in a week and your neighbor is bashing the shit out of his house, your best case scenario is they take him to detox and he comes back in a day or two.

Your worst case scenario is they tell him to knock it off and he starts it up in like 20 minutes. Actually, the real worst case scenario is they already did this a few other times during the night from other calls because he's loud enough to disrupt the entire block, so they don't come at all

You pretty much have to go through the landlord, but let's face it, if you're living in this neighborhood the landlord is probably a slumlord, so he's not going to do anything unless he absolutely has to. So then you need to try and go harder. The only method I eventually found when I got older was to start by getting a restraining order on the guy, which puts a bit more pressure on the landlord to actually do something, and may let the police actually take the guy for more than a day.

You, again, live in a slum, and restraining orders, they cost money, so good luck with that in a typical place. Even then, that's not a sure thing and can take many months. And if you have multiple meth heads in the neighborhood, well, then you're really fucked. You can say, just move, but moving costs money, so again, if you're actually poor this is a problem.
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Nrrr
03/14/19 5:33:24 PM
73
Imagine thinking the solution to slums full of drug addicts is to get tougher on crime in a country that is the wealthiest the world has ever seen, with 22% of the world's prison population and 4% of the world population, where the CIA specifically floods poor neighborhoods with drugs, where poor people already face the largest consequences for drug related crimes, where you have a fucking slumlord, no the real problem is the victim of this immoral hell of a society next door, and the solution is not to make him a slave in our prison system.
Kenri
03/14/19 5:38:11 PM
74
Gatarix posted...
Kenri posted...
You can get tough on alcohol/other drugs through more effective methods than our shitty legal system.

Like how?

(I agree the legal system is doing a spectacularly bad job controlling things, but I'm not sure how else one would "get tough" on drugs)

That's a pretty complicated question that I'm not fully equipped to answer without doing additional research first (though I can give my own opinion), but my position here is basically that addiction is solved by making an addict's life better, not worse. This is essentially the idea behind rehab too, but you don't need rehab per se if people's lives are generally good and addicts aren't excluded from those lives. So legalizing use (even if you continue to criminalize sale) is by itself a big improvement, because at least these people don't end up in trouble with the law in addition to all the other shit in their lives.

I would guess that other good changes would include safe injection sites, better public transportation, more affordable housing, better (mental, but also regular) health care, and less stigma about addiction-as-a-disease in general.

And as Mac said you'd hopefully have better enforcement of non-drug crimes that are related to drug use, like domestic violence and unsafe driving. But you need to do more positive reinforcement than negative, even in a "get tough on drugs" approach.
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iiicon
03/14/19 5:38:51 PM
75
as someone who also has had first hand experience with people in my immediate personal life using drugs (my mother battled substance abuse issues in the last decade of her life, my sister's addiction to meth forced me to step in and become the legal guardian to my niece and nephew), i would just like to say that i fully support:

- decriminalization + the creation of expansive, free health care provisions to drug users (including needle exchange clinics, safe injection sites, etc)
- the immediate release of a translated judgement/judge eyes in the west
- ignoring lopen

it is the only way for all of our communities to heal
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Lopen
03/14/19 5:56:51 PM
76
I think the funniest part of people like icon is that people that have drug abuse problems get more sympathy by default because "they have a disease"

Like, if you live in a slum and you aren't an addict, you're actually the bad guy because you don't have a disease. You can be that same person take some meth, flip out, and start raising hell for everyone around you and suddenly you're a victim because hey, you couldn't control yourself the addiction made you do that.

I actually think that calling drug use a disease is accurate in the sense that it's communicable. Like Kenri actually had it right that improving standards of living is going to help a lot, but in a neighborhood like that wanton disrespect for the people around you due to rampant drug use is a big part of the reason the standards of living are so low in the first place. You live in a neighborhood like that and the urge to start using is higher because you want to escape that very same neighborhood. Making it easier for addicts makes it less troublesome for them, sure, but at what cost? Is it good to make slums a little less bad but double the amount of livable space that is in slums because now meth addicts can live in more places and make more people around them miserable? Because that's something that could happen. There are a lot of things to consider. Having a narrow viewpoint because you have a relative who was a meth addict and you wish it was less bad for them is nice, but yeah.
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Mac Arrowny
03/14/19 5:59:45 PM
77
I'm not quite sure what you want as a solution, Lopen. It's clear that meth being illegal hasn't helped your situation.
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Lopen
03/14/19 6:05:12 PM
78
I want less people to have to experience living around people like that, and you know what, common sense to me says meth being legalized outright creates more addicts not less. Like people cite various prohibition statistics and such, but do you really think that alcohol and tobacco being the most commonly used recreational drugs is a coincidence?

I'm imagining a world where instead of those two it's meth and heroin and it's like, terrifying.
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pjbasis
03/14/19 6:31:21 PM
79
I think the more debilitating affects of meth and heroine also have a hand in causing less people to want to try it.

Weed being super popular despite being illegal is what pushed it to being legalized. I don't think there would be much of a mass endemic of heroine and meth if our culture is just a lot more savvy about drugs. That said there probably is no reason to decriminalize something that most people wouldn't do anyway.
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Lopen
03/14/19 6:52:55 PM
80
Weed being popular despite illegality is a good argument but it also defeats itself because it's less harmful than the two drugs it was less popular than

I'm not saying meth automatically comes in the running for most popular drug if it's legalized, but I would rather avoid anything that allows its use to spread if possible.
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ChaosTonyV4
03/14/19 6:57:20 PM
81
If all drugs were legal, then itd be easier to get/convince people to get treatment for drug abuse.

When your options are get help and maybe go to jail, or be addicted, most people will choose the latter.
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HashtagSEP
03/14/19 6:58:46 PM
82
ChaosTonyV4 posted...
If all drugs were legal, then itd be easier to get/convince people to get treatment for drug abuse.


This I don't think is as true as people think, since it's often extremely hard to convince people to get treatment for alcohol/cigarette abuse and there's no legality issue there
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HashtagSEP
03/14/19 7:02:37 PM
83
Like, to me, I'd think it may actually be the reverse since if it's legal, it's harder to convince people they're doing something wrong or that they have a problem

I admit I could be very wrong, though. People rejecting treatment is an issue that I don't think legality would make a huge dent in, though.
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Waluigi1
03/14/19 7:53:06 PM
84
Is the game called Judge Eyes in Japan or something?
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ninkendo
03/14/19 7:57:38 PM
85
Judge Eyes: Will of the Shinigami

Just Judgement over here
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Bane_Of_Despair
03/14/19 7:59:46 PM
86
I'm still upset how much better of a name Judge Eyes is than Judgment
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You were the cancer, that's all you'll ever be
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pjbasis
03/14/19 8:02:03 PM
87
Lopen posted...
Weed being popular despite illegality is a good argument but it also defeats itself because it's less harmful than the two drugs it was less popular than


It doesn't defeat itself because that was also part of my point.

Weed is being legalized because a large enough amount of people use it responsibly to warrant it's normalization into society.

Meth and Heroine don't have this push because I suspect they're pretty difficult to integrate into a healthy lifestyle.
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Waluigi1
03/14/19 8:06:09 PM
88
Bane_Of_Despair posted...
I'm still upset how much better of a name Judge Eyes is than Judgment

I hope that's a joke <_<
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Bane_Of_Despair
03/14/19 8:10:52 PM
89
Yea cuz generic ass Judgment is gonna stand out over JUDGE EYES

Judge Eyes is fantastic for a game name
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You were the cancer, that's all you'll ever be
...and when the Clouds cleared,Advokaiser stood alone as CBX Guru Champ
ninkendo
03/14/19 8:23:40 PM
90
Judgment is the most generic video game name of all time
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Waluigi1
03/14/19 9:04:53 PM
91
I'm not saying Judgement is better necessarily but Judge Eyes is just a weird nonsensical Engrish thing.
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Bane_Of_Despair
03/14/19 9:13:02 PM
92
Waluigi1 posted...
Judge Eyes is just a weird nonsensical Engrish thing

yes and
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You were the cancer, that's all you'll ever be
...and when the Clouds cleared,Advokaiser stood alone as CBX Guru Champ
Waluigi1
03/14/19 9:17:13 PM
93
Bane_Of_Despair posted...
Waluigi1 posted...
Judge Eyes is just a weird nonsensical Engrish thing

yes and

And... it doesn't make any sense lol. It sounds "cool" to Japanese people who don't know English but is pretty silly sounding to us.
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Nrrr
03/14/19 9:37:08 PM
94
I think it sounds cool af
Xiahou Shake
03/14/19 9:46:56 PM
95
Judge Eyes >>>>>>>>> Judgment
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swordz9
03/14/19 9:50:06 PM
96
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-03-14/city-removes-manhole-cover-decorated-with-denki-groove-pierre-taki/.144542

His removal from stuff continues. If he was an American celebrity his career would mostly be fine after something like this >_>
Lopen
03/14/19 10:14:57 PM
97
pjbasis posted...
Weed is being legalized because a large enough amount of people use it responsibly to warrant it's normalization into society.

Meth and Heroine don't have this push because I suspect they're pretty difficult to integrate into a healthy lifestyle.


Well if it's part of your point it's not entirely at odds with mine. My point is that the most used drugs are the legal ones, not the ones with the least harmful side effects, so legalizing is likely to increase use, and substantially

I actually agree with you that it would be surprising that their use would increase to the point where they dethrone alcohol or tobacco, but even if their use doubled that's really bad considering the problems they cause, and not just to the users.
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