Current Events > Ilhan Omar is really treading thin ice with overt anti-Semitism

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DarkRoast
02/11/19 9:44:39 AM
1
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/11/politics/ilhan-omar-aipac-backlash/index.html

What does she even hope to gain by continually harping on this stuff?



The freshman congresswoman faced swift backlash from both Democrats and Republicans on Twitter.
New York Democratic Rep. Max Rose tweeted, "When someone uses hateful and offensive tropes and words against people of any faith, I will not be silent. Congresswoman Omar's statements are deeply hurtful to Jews, including myself. Implying that Americans support Israel because of money alone is offensive enough. But to go a step further, and retweet someone declaring their pain at her sentiment is simply unacceptable."

"At a time when anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise, our leaders should not be invoking hurtful stereotypes and caricatures of Jewish people to dismiss those who support Israel," Rose tweeted.
"In the Democratic Party - and in the United States of America - we celebrate the diversity of our people, and the Gods we pray to, as a strength," Rose continued. "The Congresswoman's statements do not live up to that cherished ideal."


I'm beginning to think this horseshoe theory of political extremism may actually be onto something.
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s0nicfan
02/11/19 9:47:30 AM
2
DarkRoast posted...
What does she even hope to gain by continually harping on this stuff?


I mean she's legitimately anti-Semitic. I'm thinking she hopes to gain enough public support for a shift in policy away from Israel and on to Palestine. This isn't someone "trying to gain something" by playing the public. This is just someone with a megaphone shouting her hate for others to see.

EDIT: And just to be clear, this isn't because she criticizes Israel. This is about her specific use of dogwhistle words and the insistence that "they" are trying to keep her from spreading the truth.
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RebelElite791
02/11/19 9:48:31 AM
3
Ah the old "criticizing Israel is criticizing Jews" argument. That's a new one.
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Alphamon
02/11/19 9:50:16 AM
4
RebelElite791 posted...
Ah the old "criticizing Israel is criticizing Jews" argument. That's a new one.

She's walking a thin line and you know it.
s0nicfan
02/11/19 9:51:23 AM
5
For example:
GeFn1yW
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monkmith
02/11/19 9:51:55 AM
6
...did she say/do anything worse then point out the fact that lots of the defense republicans dole out for Israel only happens because they get money from a political group?

^ never mind. just one crazy religious person bitching about other crazy religions.
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Antifar
02/11/19 9:52:55 AM
7
A lot of people who know better are pretending her comments are something they aren't.

The guy she originally criticized here is Kevin McCarthy. This Kevin McCarthy
https://www.timesofisrael.com/house-majority-leader-mccarthy-deletes-tweet-saying-soros-buying-elections/
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DarkRoast
02/11/19 9:54:48 AM
8
RebelElite791 posted...
Ah the old "criticizing Israel is criticizing Jews" argument. That's a new one.


She clearly uses coded words in the same way white supremacists do.
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 9:54:51 AM
9
s0nicfan posted...
For example:
GeFn1yW

Antifar posted...
A lot of people who know better are pretending her comments are something they aren't.

I mean.....cmon. That ome is a bit much
s0nicfan
02/11/19 9:56:40 AM
10
Antifar posted...
A lot of people who know better are pretending her comments are something they aren't.


She put a sticky note on the map in her DC office that says "Palestine" and points to where Israel is. She knows exactly what she's doing.
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Antifar
02/11/19 9:56:49 AM
11
CruelBuffalo posted...
s0nicfan posted...
For example:
GeFn1yW

Antifar posted...
A lot of people who know better are pretending her comments are something they aren't.

I mean.....cmon. That ome is a bit much

That one is also 6 years old, and not the ones being cited in this piece, where she rightly says that AIPAC's lobbying has a lot of congressmen in support of Israel.
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BornIn1142
02/11/19 9:58:13 AM
12
I pray to Yahweh that Israel will stop shooting Palestinian teenagers and building illegal settlements.

Acceptable? Y/N?
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Alpha218
02/11/19 9:58:35 AM
13
Israel (the state) does not refer to Jewish people, but this is the same parallel the GOP likes to draw between border security and the wall.
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 9:59:12 AM
14
Alpha218 posted...
Israel (the state) does not refer to Jewish people, but this is the same parallel the GOP likes to draw between border security and the wall.

Hmm true
DarkRoast
02/11/19 9:59:16 AM
15
Antifar posted...
CruelBuffalo posted...
s0nicfan posted...
For example:
GeFn1yW

Antifar posted...
A lot of people who know better are pretending her comments are something they aren't.

I mean.....cmon. That ome is a bit much

That one is also 6 years old, and not the ones being cited in this piece, where she rightly says that AIPAC's lobbying has a lot of congressmen in support of Israel.


Well, I certainly didn't expect Democrats to be cool with frank racism / hatred but here we are.
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 9:59:37 AM
16
BornIn1142 posted...
I pray to Yahweh that Israel will stop shooting Palestinian teenagers and building illegal settlements.

Acceptable? Y/N?

Well yeah no dog whistles there
Antifar
02/11/19 10:00:17 AM
17
Like, here's a response to her tweet
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1094767031939932161

Jake Sherman wrote this piece about how AIPAC paid congressman for a lavish vacation to Israel:
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/who-paid-the-gop-bar-tab-in-galilee-080066

People who know better are pretending not to understand the role money and lobbying has in our politics.
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Antifar
02/11/19 10:00:38 AM
18
I am not a Democrat.
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Anteaterking
02/11/19 10:00:41 AM
19
Idk why more people aren't concerned about how strong of an influence AIPAC has in America. Imagine if there was a lobby that big for any other country. Wouldn't you start to question legislators motivations for foreign policy votes involving that country?
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Antifar
02/11/19 10:03:10 AM
20
Anteaterking posted...
Idk why more people aren't concerned about how strong of an influence AIPAC has in America. Imagine if there was a lobby that big for any other country. Wouldn't you start to question legislators motivations for foreign policy votes involving that country?

Saudi Arabia has a pretty big lobby, too. And figures like Howard Dean and Rudy Giuliani have been lobbyists for this one weird Iranian sect

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2016/11/15/giuliani-was-paid-advocate-for-shady-iranian-dissident-group/
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:04:53 AM
21
Antifar posted...
Like, here's a response to her tweet
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1094767031939932161

Jake Sherman wrote this piece about how AIPAC paid congressman for a lavish vacation to Israel:
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/who-paid-the-gop-bar-tab-in-galilee-080066

People who know better are pretending not to understand the role money and lobbying has in our politics.


So because a congress people got a vacation and a group racked up a $300-400 bar tab (where drinks are $15-20) Theyre gonna support Israel? When people hear they got money Im sure people assume they mean donations or PAC money...
BornIn1142
02/11/19 10:05:23 AM
22
CruelBuffalo posted...
BornIn1142 posted...
I pray to Yahweh that Israel will stop shooting Palestinian teenagers and building illegal settlements.

Acceptable? Y/N?

Well yeah no dog whistles there

Please tell me how it's appropriate to criticize Israel.

The only reason people take issue with that tweet is that she expressed herself by invoking her religion. A white person saying "I pray these evil acts will be recognized as evil" wouldn't have garnered the same reaction.

That's assuming good faith arguments, of course... In reality, many critics are perfectly aware they're grasping at straws and are intentionally trying to poison the well.

I'm assuming you're very familiar with that tactic.
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NinjaBreakfast
02/11/19 10:06:03 AM
23
the people who refuse to accept anything as racist unless the person accused of it signs a declaration that they think one race is inherently inferior to another say
She clearly uses coded words

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Antifar
02/11/19 10:07:57 AM
24
CruelBuffalo posted...
When people hear they got money Im sure people assume they mean donations or PAC money...

Free vacations are money!

AIEF is the nonprofit arm of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, long considered one of the most powerful advocacy groups in Washington. AIEF has sponsored hundreds of trips to Israel for lawmakers, aides and journalists since 2000, spending more than $7 million on those trips, public records show

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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:08:20 AM
25
BornIn1142 posted...
CruelBuffalo posted...
BornIn1142 posted...
I pray to Yahweh that Israel will stop shooting Palestinian teenagers and building illegal settlements.

Acceptable? Y/N?

Well yeah no dog whistles there

Please tell me how it's appropriate to criticize Israel.

The only reason people take issue with that tweet is that she expressed herself by invoking her religion. A white person saying "I pray these evil acts will be recognized as evil" wouldn't have garnered the same reaction.

That's assuming good faith arguments, of course... In reality, many critics are perfectly aware they're grasping at straws and are intentionally trying to poison the well.

I'm assuming you're very familiar with that tactic.


Idk saying they hypnotize people when they (jews) have been accused of maninpulating people in nefarious that led to a holocaust. Hmm. Idk.
ultimate reaver
02/11/19 10:12:07 AM
26
NinjaBreakfast posted...
the people who refuse to accept anything as racist unless the person accused of it signs a declaration that they think one race is inherently inferior to another say
She clearly uses coded words


That was my big takeaway from this thread to other than being reminded of how Israel can go fuck itself
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s0nicfan
02/11/19 10:12:50 AM
27
BornIn1142 posted...
CruelBuffalo posted...
BornIn1142 posted...
I pray to Yahweh that Israel will stop shooting Palestinian teenagers and building illegal settlements.

Acceptable? Y/N?

Well yeah no dog whistles there

Please tell me how it's appropriate to criticize Israel.

The only reason people take issue with that tweet is that she expressed herself by invoking her religion. A white person saying "I pray these evil acts will be recognized as evil" wouldn't have garnered the same reaction.

That's assuming good faith arguments, of course... In reality, many critics are perfectly aware they're grasping at straws and are intentionally trying to poison the well.

I'm assuming you're very familiar with that tactic.


You criticize Israel by levying criticisms, like you would anything else. "Israel does bad thing X" is a criticism. "Israel is evil" is not. Saying they're hypnotizing people is not. Slapping a label over the country and calling it "Palestine" is not either.

I get people's frustrations over the backlash, but when you call a nation evil, you can't then pretend like you're just "being critical" and getting undue hate for it, because you didn't actually levy a criticism.
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Anteaterking
02/11/19 10:13:50 AM
28
CruelBuffalo posted...
So because a congress people got a vacation and a group racked up a $300-400 bar tab (where drinks are $15-20) Theyre gonna support Israel? When people hear they got money Im sure people assume they mean donations or PAC money...


https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/03/22/the-best-congress-aipac-can-buy/

Among the confirmed speakers are 30 members of the U.S. Congress, 25 of whom received 2016 contributions from pro-Israel PACs and individuals, averaging $36,000 per recipient ($908,000 in total).
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Balrog0
02/11/19 10:15:26 AM
29
CruelBuffalo posted...
Antifar posted...
Like, here's a response to her tweet
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1094767031939932161

Jake Sherman wrote this piece about how AIPAC paid congressman for a lavish vacation to Israel:
https://www.politico.com/story/2012/08/who-paid-the-gop-bar-tab-in-galilee-080066

People who know better are pretending not to understand the role money and lobbying has in our politics.


So because a congress people got a vacation and a group racked up a $300-400 bar tab (where drinks are $15-20) Theyre gonna support Israel? When people hear they got money Im sure people assume they mean donations or PAC money...


these are donations and it is pac money

well, I mean, I guess I don't know about how federal ethics laws work. In my state, I'm not allowed as a lobbyist to buy food/trips/alcohol/etc for politicians unless I count it as a donation. Because this is a way people buy influence for sure.

Of course there are tons of loopholes but yeah
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:16:20 AM
30
Anteaterking posted...
CruelBuffalo posted...
So because a congress people got a vacation and a group racked up a $300-400 bar tab (where drinks are $15-20) Theyre gonna support Israel? When people hear they got money Im sure people assume they mean donations or PAC money...


https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/03/22/the-best-congress-aipac-can-buy/

Among the confirmed speakers are 30 members of the U.S. Congress, 25 of whom received 2016 contributions from pro-Israel PACs and individuals, averaging $36,000 per recipient ($908,000 in total).

Much better thank you
Anteaterking
02/11/19 10:16:29 AM
31
s0nicfan posted...
You criticize Israel by levying criticisms, like you would anything else.


Well yeah, but then you get people like you going into those topics saying "Oh you're going to criticize Israel and not everyone else who does bad things?"
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King_Hellebuyck
02/11/19 10:18:25 AM
32
Her possible antisemitism is being used as a distraction from the fact that shes right about a lobbying group.
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Anteaterking
02/11/19 10:18:31 AM
33
Balrog0 posted...
these are donations and it is pac money

well, I mean, I guess I don't know about how federal ethics laws work. In my state, I'm not allowed as a lobbyist to buy food/trips/alcohol/etc for politicians unless I count it as a donation. Because this is a way people buy influence for sure.

Of course there are tons of loopholes but yeah


Yeah, I mean on the other side of the coin I'm extremely restricted in gifts I accept from people who can be perceived as trying to influence the US government. That's even like "You can only accept food from them x many times a year..." and things like that.
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Alpha218
02/11/19 10:18:37 AM
34
Anteaterking posted...
Idk why more people aren't concerned about how strong of an influence AIPAC has in America. Imagine if there was a lobby that big for any other country. Wouldn't you start to question legislators motivations for foreign policy votes involving that country?

Well, look at how many people blatantly ignore how much control Russia and Saudi Arabia have over Trump
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coolboy11
02/11/19 10:20:51 AM
35
A decent majority of American Conservatives are anti Semitic anyway so their dickriding of Israel is even more comical.
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BornIn1142
02/11/19 10:22:45 AM
36
s0nicfan posted...
I get people's frustrations over the backlash, but when you call a nation evil, you can't then pretend like you're just "being critical" and getting undue hate for it, because you didn't actually levy a criticism.

The issue here is the disproportionate social relevance of Twitter, which generates overly short declarations or witticisms instead of reasoned discussions.

You can find articles written by Jews that also describe Israel as "evil" and make a case for it as well. I personally agree it's a dramatic and potentially distracting word.
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Balrog0
02/11/19 10:23:10 AM
37
coolboy11 posted...
A decent majority of American Conservatives are anti Semitic anyway so their dickriding of Israel is even more comical.


I mean, idk about that, but I would say that most of these people complaining about anti-semitism have also said that Soros buys elections and pays for fake protesters with his billions of dollars. But the claims of anti-semitic dog whistling seemingly only apply if you bring up Israel.

That said even if she isn't anti-semitic and even if you don't think this was anti-semitic I feel like it was a pretty obvious angle that her political opponents would take so either way she knew what she was doing, I'd say.
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Zerocide
02/11/19 10:25:43 AM
38
s0nicfan posted...
For example:
GeFn1yW

Man I just imagine how better society would be if religion didn't exist.
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Phantom_Nook
02/11/19 10:26:20 AM
39
When there are a non-zero amount of politicians that want to make boycotting Israel products illegal, it's worth calling them out.
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s0nicfan
02/11/19 10:27:12 AM
40
Anteaterking posted...
s0nicfan posted...
You criticize Israel by levying criticisms, like you would anything else.


Well yeah, but then you get people like you going into those topics saying "Oh you're going to criticize Israel and not everyone else who does bad things?"


But then those people would be wrong, as opposed to this instance where she's the one who's wrong. "People are going to bitch no matter what" isn't an excuse to use intentionally lazy language.
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:28:06 AM
41
I personally agree it's a dramatic and potentially distracting word.

I have found growing up as I have became jaded where the most vocal people dont care if something is overdramatic, distracting, and actually detracts from the goal they want accomplished. They are heard with that method and thats the method theyll continue to use.
BJ-blazkowics
02/11/19 10:29:52 AM
42
DarkRoast posted...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/11/politics/ilhan-omar-aipac-backlash/index.html

What does she even hope to gain by continually harping on this stuff?



The freshman congresswoman faced swift backlash from both Democrats and Republicans on Twitter.
New York Democratic Rep. Max Rose tweeted, "When someone uses hateful and offensive tropes and words against people of any faith, I will not be silent. Congresswoman Omar's statements are deeply hurtful to Jews, including myself. Implying that Americans support Israel because of money alone is offensive enough. But to go a step further, and retweet someone declaring their pain at her sentiment is simply unacceptable."

"At a time when anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise, our leaders should not be invoking hurtful stereotypes and caricatures of Jewish people to dismiss those who support Israel," Rose tweeted.
"In the Democratic Party - and in the United States of America - we celebrate the diversity of our people, and the Gods we pray to, as a strength," Rose continued. "The Congresswoman's statements do not live up to that cherished ideal."


I'm beginning to think this horseshoe theory of political extremism may actually be onto something.


This is terrible stuff. But what about Trump's trail of tears jokes? Or Don Jr's celebration of a native american genocide joke?
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coolboy11
02/11/19 10:29:55 AM
43
I mean, idk about that
I mean I might be using my own personal biases of the Conservative community I grew up in, but most of those types were often comically anti Semitic (while weirdly being stringent defenders of Israel)
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:30:49 AM
44
BJ-blazkowics posted...
DarkRoast posted...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/11/politics/ilhan-omar-aipac-backlash/index.html

What does she even hope to gain by continually harping on this stuff?



The freshman congresswoman faced swift backlash from both Democrats and Republicans on Twitter.
New York Democratic Rep. Max Rose tweeted, "When someone uses hateful and offensive tropes and words against people of any faith, I will not be silent. Congresswoman Omar's statements are deeply hurtful to Jews, including myself. Implying that Americans support Israel because of money alone is offensive enough. But to go a step further, and retweet someone declaring their pain at her sentiment is simply unacceptable."

"At a time when anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise, our leaders should not be invoking hurtful stereotypes and caricatures of Jewish people to dismiss those who support Israel," Rose tweeted.
"In the Democratic Party - and in the United States of America - we celebrate the diversity of our people, and the Gods we pray to, as a strength," Rose continued. "The Congresswoman's statements do not live up to that cherished ideal."


I'm beginning to think this horseshoe theory of political extremism may actually be onto something.


This is terrible stuff. But what about Trump's trail of tears jokes? Or Don Jr's celebration of a native american genocide joke?

Theyre way more terrible an awful.
BJ-blazkowics
02/11/19 10:31:13 AM
45
RebelElite791 posted...
Ah the old "criticizing Israel is criticizing Jews" argument. That's a new one.


She claims to be part native american yet wasn't offended in the least bit by this stuff:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trump-jr-applauds-racist-native-american-jokes-124303686--abc-news-topstories.html

No partisanship here, none at all...
---
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coolboy11
02/11/19 10:31:43 AM
46
This is terrible stuff. But what about Trump's trail of tears jokes? Or Don Jr's celebration of a native american genocide joke?

we basically never hold Republicans/Conservatives to serious consequences and they are unabashed about it so.....
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CruelBuffalo
02/11/19 10:33:06 AM
47
coolboy11 posted...
This is terrible stuff. But what about Trump's trail of tears jokes? Or Don Jr's celebration of a native american genocide joke?

we basically never hold Republicans/Conservatives to serious consequences and they are unabashed about it so.....


Idk about we, conservatives you mean never (very very rarely) hold their own accountable
BJ-blazkowics
02/11/19 10:33:19 AM
48
CruelBuffalo posted...
BJ-blazkowics posted...
DarkRoast posted...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/11/politics/ilhan-omar-aipac-backlash/index.html

What does she even hope to gain by continually harping on this stuff?



The freshman congresswoman faced swift backlash from both Democrats and Republicans on Twitter.
New York Democratic Rep. Max Rose tweeted, "When someone uses hateful and offensive tropes and words against people of any faith, I will not be silent. Congresswoman Omar's statements are deeply hurtful to Jews, including myself. Implying that Americans support Israel because of money alone is offensive enough. But to go a step further, and retweet someone declaring their pain at her sentiment is simply unacceptable."

"At a time when anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise, our leaders should not be invoking hurtful stereotypes and caricatures of Jewish people to dismiss those who support Israel," Rose tweeted.
"In the Democratic Party - and in the United States of America - we celebrate the diversity of our people, and the Gods we pray to, as a strength," Rose continued. "The Congresswoman's statements do not live up to that cherished ideal."


I'm beginning to think this horseshoe theory of political extremism may actually be onto something.


This is terrible stuff. But what about Trump's trail of tears jokes? Or Don Jr's celebration of a native american genocide joke?

Theyre way more terrible an awful.


Yup. And somehow "totally not trump supporters" gave that a pass.
---
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Anteaterking
02/11/19 10:35:35 AM
49
s0nicfan posted...
But then those people would be wrong, as opposed to this instance where she's the one who's wrong. "People are going to b**** no matter what" isn't an excuse to use intentionally lazy language.


How is it "wrong" to call a country evil?

It seems like you're going a step beyond "It's not criticism because it's just an empty attack" to "Also that empty attack is false!".

Also lol at "those people would be wrong". Is that you admitting that YOU'RE wrong when you do it?

CruelBuffalo posted...
I have found growing up as I have became jaded where the most vocal people dont care if something is overdramatic, distracting, and actually detracts from the goal they want accomplished. They are heard with that method and thats the method theyll continue to use.


I understand that, but I think most of the time, the people who are trying to make an argument over something being overdramatic are arguing in bad faith anyway. The people who say things like "Her comments would be fine if she didn't use the word 'evil'!" always have an endless supply of reasons why someone criticizing Israel is doing it wrong.

I agree with you when it's an issue where someone is actually alienating people who would support them.
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DarkRoast
02/11/19 10:36:17 AM
50
BJ-blazkowics posted...
RebelElite791 posted...
Ah the old "criticizing Israel is criticizing Jews" argument. That's a new one.


She claims to be part native american yet wasn't offended in the least bit by this stuff:

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/donald-trump-jr-applauds-racist-native-american-jokes-124303686--abc-news-topstories.html

No partisanship here, none at all...


If you're talking about me, I said I wasn't offended by Elizabeth Warren's statements.
---
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