Poll of the Day > What exactly is the point of Americans having to file taxes

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Beveren_Rabbit
02/10/19 8:44:14 AM
1
if their government already has their banking and income info and is going to correct citizens anyway if they file wrong? Unless a citizen won prize money or gets tips there really isn't a point to the confusing process of filing taxes just to get penalized for accidentally making a mistake.
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*flops*
minervo
02/10/19 8:47:30 AM
2
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.
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"how hard is it for people to understand that not everything you read will be something you agree with?" - Awesome
Mead
02/10/19 10:26:11 AM
3
Just one of the many ways our country is stubbornly backwards and indulgently stupid

Not only does it not make sense, but it wastes money and they never even teach kids how to do it when theyre in school
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Muscles
02/10/19 10:58:16 AM
4
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
streamofthesky
02/10/19 11:03:02 AM
5
Mead posted...
Just one of the many ways our country is stubbornly backwards and indulgently stupid

Not only does it not make sense, but it wastes money and they never even teach kids how to do it when theyre in school

I'm super pissed off this year, that it turns out I need to pay like $80 for TurboTax Deluxe for Federal and State, compared to last year's....FREE.

What complex life situation made my taxes such a burden for their system to handle?
...Bank account interest. The same shit I've had every year as my only income source besides wages, yet now it's apparently too hard to add a single number to my AGI to be taxed at the same rate as my income.

So it looks like I'm gonna have to learn how to fill out the arcane forms myself, all because of some fucking bank interest, cause fuck if I'm paying $80 just to add a number to my AGI.

/venting
minervo
02/10/19 11:18:44 AM
6
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft

Without taxation we have anarchy.
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"how hard is it for people to understand that not everything you read will be something you agree with?" - Awesome
Muscles
02/10/19 11:25:11 AM
7
That's not true though
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
Beveren_Rabbit
02/10/19 11:32:50 AM
8
Some people put 0 on their withholding.
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*flops*
pedro45
02/10/19 12:14:07 PM
9
I mean, it at least produces a lot of jobs by having people do taxes for others.

If it was all automatic, how would a system know what to itemize as a deduction? I have certain dues and other things I itemize out of a larger cost, I.e. I may pay $200 for something, but $15 of it can be itemized.
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_AdjI_
02/10/19 12:15:42 PM
10
Job creation, mostly.
Sarcasthma
02/10/19 12:16:15 PM
11
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft

herp herp herp herp
---
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Mead
02/10/19 12:44:58 PM
12
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
cdw01
02/10/19 12:48:09 PM
13
Intuit (TurboTax), H&R Block, etc all lobby Congress to keep their business model in place and prevent us from getting free and simple tax filing. Another example of big business interests winning over everyday Americans.

https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-maker-of-turbotax-fought-free-simple-tax-filing
https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it
https://www.npr.org/2013/04/15/177341740/taxes-without-returns-pipe-dream-or-possibility
Muscles
02/10/19 12:56:06 PM
14
Mead posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?

Well for one, there wouldn't be the government stealing money from it's people
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
_AdjI_
02/10/19 1:02:44 PM
15
Muscles posted...
Mead posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?

Well for one, there wouldn't be the government stealing money from it's people


Based on what you have said thus far, the semantic content of this post can be summarized in its entirety by: "If there were no taxes then there would be no taxes." Truly, you are one of the greatest minds of our era, and we are all privileged to be basking in your radiant brilliance.
RoboXgp89
02/10/19 1:04:17 PM
16
taxes are horrible and rob people

if I was to be paying property tax in my state i'd be giving up 40% of my income before I paid sales tax or income tax.

all the rich people bought houses in other states so they don't have to pay taxes here
DirtBasedSoap
02/10/19 1:18:00 PM
17
lol muscles
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Doctor Foxx
02/10/19 1:20:11 PM
18
People have deductions and other things. My taxes are basic af but you better believe I'm deducting my transit and health care costs that I can.
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Never write off the Doctor!
Lokarin
02/10/19 1:31:26 PM
19
There should just be an auto-deducted transaction tax... and that's it. Doesn't matter the source, it would equally affect all people and corporations, and poor people who use cash would even be naturally exempt since they aren't using debit/credit/money order/etc
---
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Muscles
02/10/19 1:31:50 PM
20
_AdjI_ posted...
Muscles posted...
Mead posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?

Well for one, there wouldn't be the government stealing money from it's people


Based on what you have said thus far, the semantic content of this post can be summarized in its entirety by: "If there were no taxes then there would be no taxes." Truly, you are one of the greatest minds of our era, and we are all privileged to be basking in your radiant brilliance.

Well we could assume they would have to cut spending, seeing as voluntary taxes would bring in less, and by extension would have a smaller overall government, which would lead to less power in the government and more in the people's hands, which doesn't sound like a bad thing at all
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
streamofthesky
02/10/19 1:38:14 PM
21
Doctor Foxx posted...
People have deductions and other things. My taxes are basic af but you better believe I'm deducting my transit and health care costs that I can.

You can actually do that? Do you itemize? Cause if you use standard deduction, you must have very very high medical expenses and/or fairly low pay for your medical expenses to not only exceed 7.5% (or is it 10% this year? not sure...) of your AGI, but also to exceed it so much that combined w/ other itemized deductions, it surpasses the standard deduction.

Hmm, I guess the actual question is "Do you have a mortgage?" Though w/ the new higher standard deduction (the only smart thing about the new tax law), even then it'd have to be a pretty big mortgage.
Doctor Foxx
02/10/19 1:44:45 PM
22
streamofthesky posted...
Doctor Foxx posted...
People have deductions and other things. My taxes are basic af but you better believe I'm deducting my transit and health care costs that I can.

You can actually do that? Do you itemize? Cause if you use standard deduction, you must have very very high medical expenses and/or fairly low pay for your medical expenses to not only exceed 7.5% (or is it 10% this year? not sure...) of your AGI, but also to exceed it so much that combined w/ other itemized deductions, it surpasses the standard deduction.

Hmm, I guess the actual question is "Do you have a mortgage?" Though w/ the new higher standard deduction (the only smart thing about the new tax law), even then it'd have to be a pretty big mortgage.

I don't have a mortgage

I can claim my monthly transit passes, prescription medication, and most health care expenses like my crutches and air cast

I seriously just held on to my receipts and passes and put the cost in for my claims. My health insurance company actually tracks my total out of pocket costs for me to put a number on my taxes.

I'm probably going to get 2k back this year because I had a lot of medical expenses and not as much income
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streamofthesky
02/10/19 1:52:22 PM
23
I just remember one year was really bad and we had like over $8,000 in medical expenses. I judiciously saved every receipt, hoping to at least get some tax money back.

...Only to find out it was still not even close to enough, b/c the total amount was still less than the married filing jointly standard deduction. Even if I could apply the full amount, rather than just the portion that was over 7.5% of our AGI.

Renters get the shaft.
Doctor Foxx
02/10/19 1:53:20 PM
24
streamofthesky posted...
I just remember one year was really bad and we had like over $8,000 in medical expenses. I judiciously saved every receipt, hoping to at least get some tax money back.

...Only to find out it was still not even close to enough, b/c the total amount was still less than the married filing jointly standard deduction. Even if I could apply the full amount, rather than just the portion that was over 7.5% of our AGI.

Renters get the shaft.

I was a low income single renter for 2018

I'm getting every cent back that I can

Oh but this is Canada. If you're in the US I'm not sure what can be deducted for medical with regards to taxes
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Never write off the Doctor!
Magus 10
02/10/19 1:53:47 PM
25
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.
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Kyuubi4269
02/10/19 2:00:20 PM
26
Muscles posted...
That's not true though

What do you think people would do if the roads were unlit, snowstorms uncleared, benefits unreceived, etc., etc.?

I don't see them working together to solve problems.
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Doctor Foxx posted...
The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas.
minervo
02/10/19 2:01:10 PM
27
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.

Technically, taxation is theft. Government leaders had nothing to do with the creation of our fine countries. So why should we be paying for their salary, especially considering how miserable of a job they are doing in most places?
---
"how hard is it for people to understand that not everything you read will be something you agree with?" - Awesome
Mead
02/10/19 2:04:29 PM
28
minervo posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.

Technically, taxation is theft. Government leaders had nothing to do with the creation of our fine countries. So why should we be paying for their salary, especially considering how miserable of a job they are doing in most places?


You agree to pay taxes by deciding to be part of civilization.
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
minervo
02/10/19 2:05:39 PM
29
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though

What do you think people would do if the roads were unlit, snowstorms uncleared, benefits unreceived, etc., etc.?


None of that would happen. A thousand countries would spring up overnight, and many more after that. Each one would have their own self-proclaimed king, who would need to make sure to pay his utilities to private corporations.
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"how hard is it for people to understand that not everything you read will be something you agree with?" - Awesome
CacciatoPart3
02/10/19 2:13:58 PM
30
DirtBasedSoap posted...
lol muscles

---
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Magus 10
02/10/19 2:33:43 PM
31
streamofthesky posted...
Though w/ the new higher standard deduction (the only smart thing about the new tax law)


The higher standard deduction came at the expense of the removal of personal exemptions.

Despite how much larger $12000 looks than $6350, because they removed the $4050 personal exemption, the difference is actually only $1600.

If you have a non-child dependent you are probably breaking even, or actually worse off than with the personal exemption.
---
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Magus 10
02/10/19 2:37:35 PM
32
minervo posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.

Technically, taxation is theft. Government leaders had nothing to do with the creation of our fine countries. So why should we be paying for their salary, especially considering how miserable of a job they are doing in most places?


Must be hard living in a place where you get no benefits from the government. How do you manage it, living all alone in the middle of nowhere, depending only on yourself?
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Muscles
02/10/19 2:37:49 PM
33
Mead posted...
minervo posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.

Technically, taxation is theft. Government leaders had nothing to do with the creation of our fine countries. So why should we be paying for their salary, especially considering how miserable of a job they are doing in most places?


You agree to pay taxes by deciding to be part of civilization.

You don't decide to be part of civilization, you are born into it, unless you move to a new country
---
Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
Magus 10
02/10/19 2:42:40 PM
34
Muscles posted...
Mead posted...
minervo posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft


No it's not.

Technically, taxation is theft. Government leaders had nothing to do with the creation of our fine countries. So why should we be paying for their salary, especially considering how miserable of a job they are doing in most places?


You agree to pay taxes by deciding to be part of civilization.

You don't decide to be part of civilization, you are born into it, unless you move to a new country


You're free to move to a country with no taxes and no government if you don't like the one you were born in.

I mean, you'd have to find one first, but that's a different issue.

And you might have trouble finding someone to pay you so that you make money to not pay taxes on.
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CyborgSage00x0
02/10/19 2:44:57 PM
35
Muscles posted...
_AdjI_ posted...
Muscles posted...
Mead posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?

Well for one, there wouldn't be the government stealing money from it's people


Based on what you have said thus far, the semantic content of this post can be summarized in its entirety by: "If there were no taxes then there would be no taxes." Truly, you are one of the greatest minds of our era, and we are all privileged to be basking in your radiant brilliance.

Well we could assume they would have to cut spending, seeing as voluntary taxes would bring in less, and by extension would have a smaller overall government, which would lead to less power in the government and more in the people's hands, which doesn't sound like a bad thing at all

Libertarians are just so adorable.
---
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Muscles
02/10/19 2:45:10 PM
36
So what you are saying is there actually isn't a choice and you have to involuntarily give up your money no matter where you go?
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
Magus 10
02/10/19 2:47:20 PM
37
Muscles posted...
So what you are saying is there actually isn't a choice and you have to involuntarily give up your money no matter where you go?


Well your options are to pay taxes, or to live without the help of the society you live in, in which case you're not making any money anyway, so there's nothing to pay taxes on.

Why do you believe you shouldn't have to pay taxes?
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acesxhigh
02/10/19 2:52:47 PM
38
minervo posted...
Muscles posted...
minervo posted...
Yea it's stupid, there should only be a sales tax, and public services should be paid for by donations so all those internet freaks would stop getting paid as much.

There shouldn't be any taxes

Taxation is theft

Without taxation we have anarchy.

dude nice
Muscles
02/10/19 3:08:06 PM
39
Magus 10 posted...
Muscles posted...
So what you are saying is there actually isn't a choice and you have to involuntarily give up your money no matter where you go?


Well your options are to pay taxes, or to live without the help of the society you live in, in which case you're not making any money anyway, so there's nothing to pay taxes on.

Why do you believe you shouldn't have to pay taxes?

Well for one it's theft, but we already established that (though it should be a good enough reason in and of itself), another reason is what gives the government the right to be the one to do the taxing? Because they said so?
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
_AdjI_
02/10/19 3:12:50 PM
40
Muscles posted...
_AdjI_ posted...
Muscles posted...
Mead posted...
Muscles posted...
That's not true though


Can you explain what things would be like with no taxes?

Well for one, there wouldn't be the government stealing money from it's people


Based on what you have said thus far, the semantic content of this post can be summarized in its entirety by: "If there were no taxes then there would be no taxes." Truly, you are one of the greatest minds of our era, and we are all privileged to be basking in your radiant brilliance.

Well we could assume they would have to cut spending, seeing as voluntary taxes would bring in less, and by extension would have a smaller overall government, which would lead to less power in the government and more in the people's hands, which doesn't sound like a bad thing at all


Well, we've gotten out of outright tautological territory, but still nothing any more concrete than what you'd find in the "about us" section on the website of any high school Libertarian Club. You're not exactly convincing anyone that you've thought this through.
Locke90
02/10/19 3:17:13 PM
41
How else are you going to pay for the welfare of clearly "underpaid" public servants they do nee to afford to live in those rich areas to keep away from the riff raff.
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streamofthesky
02/10/19 3:30:50 PM
42
Magus 10 posted...
streamofthesky posted...
Though w/ the new higher standard deduction (the only smart thing about the new tax law)


The higher standard deduction came at the expense of the removal of personal exemptions.

Despite how much larger $12000 looks than $6350, because they removed the $4050 personal exemption, the difference is actually only $1600.

If you have a non-child dependent you are probably breaking even, or actually worse off than with the personal exemption.

It's still an increase, but yes it's not much when you factor in loss of personal exemption. And if you itemize b/c you have a mortgage, you probably straight up lost money.
But at least the new law made taxes fuck over renters compared to home owners a bit less, is all I'm saying.

In any case, being a renter who takes the standard deduction, I should've been one of the bigger beneficiaries of the new tax code, at least for middle class tax payers (obviously it was mostly a tax break for the rich). And...based on what I've seen so far in turbotax, despite a lower AGI this year (put more into tax deferred retirement accounts, plus worked less overtime), my tax bill is not much different. I might in the end be able to attribute a 2% reduction in federal taxes to the new law.
Totally worth the crippling debt load it added!
j/k the tax law was never for the middle class anyway
yoshi_62
02/10/19 4:02:51 PM
43
I traveled for work a lot last year and have three W2s. Fuck.
Mead
02/10/19 4:04:07 PM
44
Locke90 posted...
How else are you going to pay for the welfare of clearly "underpaid" public servants they do nee to afford to live in those rich areas to keep away from the riff raff.


So much to unpack here
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
Magus 10
02/10/19 4:49:58 PM
45
Muscles posted...
Well for one it's theft, but we already established that (though it should be a good enough reason in and of itself), another reason is what gives the government the right to be the one to do the taxing? Because they said so?


Do you use any services provided by the government?
---
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Bugmeat
02/10/19 5:09:41 PM
46
Muscles posted...
Well for one it's theft, but we already established that (though it should be a good enough reason in and of itself)

It isn't theft. You're free to move to another country that doesn't collect taxes. But the ones that don't are typically pretty shitty places to live. Whether it be due to lack of basic stuff like good roads, police, well trained fire response teams, etc. Or it being run by totalitarian governments that supply all of these things by owning and controlling the valuable resources such as how the United Emirates and their oil industry.

You willingly pay your income tax by choosing to live here. There is no theft. You know what is expected and accept these rules by not leaving.


---
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HeyImAlex
02/10/19 5:18:11 PM
47
@Muscles, think about what you're saying before simply typing what you think and then immediately hitting enter...
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RoboXgp89
02/10/19 5:19:01 PM
48
Bugmeat posted...
Muscles posted...
Well for one it's theft, but we already established that (though it should be a good enough reason in and of itself)

It isn't theft. You're free to move to another country that doesn't collect taxes. But the ones that don't are typically pretty shitty places to live. Whether it be due to lack of basic stuff like good roads, police, well trained fire response teams, etc. Or it being run by totalitarian governments that supply all of these things by owning and controlling the valuable resources such as how the United Emirates and their oil industry.

You willingly pay your income tax by choosing to live here. There is no theft. You know what is expected and accept these rules by not leaving.



our gov't should pay for their own money,
they have enough and if they aren't generating profit why do they exist?
they just hoard and spend and give it away to other countries,
they're the only business that doesn't have to generate profit, they're the ones on welfare.
Kigalas
02/10/19 5:53:55 PM
49
our gov't should pay for their own money

Wat?

they have enough and if they aren't generating profit why do they exist?

A government isnt a for-profit entity. They are there to keep you safe and provide necessary services.

they just hoard and spend and give it away to other countries

Its called appropriations, and all spending bills must originate in the House, which also has the highest amount of public representation.

they're the only business that doesn't have to generate profit, they're the ones on welfare.

Again, a government isnt a for-profit entity, nor should they be. And if they are for-profit then those profits should come back to the public in the form of tax relief/refunds or increased services.
---
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RoboXgp89
02/10/19 6:02:47 PM
50
jeez are americans really this clueless? what do you think military contractors do? protect people?
they get free money to start wars, aquire resources and knock stuff down to build it up again
the military does not need our continued funding
it's extortion with no return unless you're rich
you're giving them money to subjugate other people for the rich in other countries, you get no return on investment unless you own the military contractor companies

so again why should we still be giving them money???
if they aren't getting any money by being in other countries
if they aren't going to protect our own country, or secure our borders than what are they really?
can hardly call them an american army, our founding fathers would be rolling in their graves, its basically what the british were doing
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