Current Events > So I've started learning Python today...

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treewojima
02/11/19 1:16:48 PM
51
s0nicfan posted...
but it's still not where it needs to be to be truly functional


that's a pretty bold statement. there are definite areas in need of improvement, like the GIL, but on a whole the platform is solid and perfectly usable in a production system

unless you mean functional in the Lispy sense, which isn't really what the language is going for
s0nicfan
02/11/19 1:22:16 PM
52
treewojima posted...
s0nicfan posted...
but it's still not where it needs to be to be truly functional


that's a pretty bold statement. there are definite areas in need of improvement, like the GIL, but on a whole the platform is solid and perfectly usable in a production system

unless you mean functional in the Lispy sense, which isn't really what the language is going for


Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
scar the 1
02/11/19 1:24:38 PM
53
s0nicfan posted...
treewojima posted...
s0nicfan posted...
but it's still not where it needs to be to be truly functional


that's a pretty bold statement. there are definite areas in need of improvement, like the GIL, but on a whole the platform is solid and perfectly usable in a production system

unless you mean functional in the Lispy sense, which isn't really what the language is going for


Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.

Uh

Not only is it production ready, it's being used in production already by a lot of big actors. I have no idea what you're talking about tbh, and I'm guess you don't either.
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CableZL
02/11/19 1:31:31 PM
54
s0nicfan posted...
Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


What do you mean by tabs vs spaces being a problem? From what I've seen, I can do tabs or spaces with no issues.
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scar the 1
02/11/19 1:34:27 PM
55
CableZL posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


What do you mean by tabs vs spaces being a problem? From what I've seen, I can do tabs or spaces with no issues.

Tabs vs spaces isn't an issue. People who favor languages with other ways of dividing blocks of code often try to make it into an issue, but it's really not. Generally s0nicfan is spouting crap here, you shouldn't pay much attention to what he's saying.
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Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
treewojima
02/11/19 1:35:24 PM
56
s0nicfan posted...
treewojima posted...
s0nicfan posted...
but it's still not where it needs to be to be truly functional


that's a pretty bold statement. there are definite areas in need of improvement, like the GIL, but on a whole the platform is solid and perfectly usable in a production system

unless you mean functional in the Lispy sense, which isn't really what the language is going for


Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


it's not designed to be used in a real-time scenario though. that'd be like expecting Javascript or Ruby to perform in the same fashion. you can't hold it to a standard it never aimed to achieve

it's perfectly suitable for the development of web and desktop applications as well as serving as a scripting language, either standalone or as an extension of an application
s0nicfan
02/11/19 1:35:54 PM
57
CableZL posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


What do you mean by tabs vs spaces being a problem? From what I've seen, I can do tabs or spaces with no issues.


Its not something that comes up if a single person is working on code because the interpreter handles both, but it causes some issues if you happen to have a python file that has both tabs and spaces in it. That isn't a problem in languages that use brackets to denote scope.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
s0nicfan
02/11/19 1:37:38 PM
58
treewojima posted...
s0nicfan posted...
treewojima posted...
s0nicfan posted...
but it's still not where it needs to be to be truly functional


that's a pretty bold statement. there are definite areas in need of improvement, like the GIL, but on a whole the platform is solid and perfectly usable in a production system

unless you mean functional in the Lispy sense, which isn't really what the language is going for


Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


it's not designed to be used in a real-time scenario though. that'd be like expecting Javascript or Ruby to perform in the same fashion. you can't hold it to a standard it never aimed to achieve

it's perfectly suitable for the development of web and desktop applications as well as serving as a scripting language, either standalone or as an extension of an application


Okay, so calling it truly functional is a bit unfair because you're right that it wasn't designed to support hard real time, but that inherently limits it in a way that other languages with real-time variants aren't.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz
scar the 1
02/11/19 1:38:42 PM
59
s0nicfan posted...
CableZL posted...
s0nicfan posted...
Let's not go overboard. It's a solid language with a lot of prototyping capabilities and a wealth of user-created libraries (looking at you scikit-learn), but it isn't production ready by a long shot. Not in terms of performance. Not in terms of scalability. Not in terms of reliability. Not in terms of portability. Even the way it handles type safety is an issue. The fact that you can screw up your program and never know it because of tabs-vs-spaces is a problem. The way it handles memory management and execution safety makes it completely unusable in a hard real-time and safety critical systems.


What do you mean by tabs vs spaces being a problem? From what I've seen, I can do tabs or spaces with no issues.


Its not something that comes up if a single person is working on code because the interpreter handles both, but it causes some issues if you happen to have a python file that has both tabs and spaces in it. That isn't a problem in languages that use brackets to denote scope.

And if you're worried that it'll ever be an issue (it won't), you easily solve it by sticking a linter into your pipeline
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treewojima
02/11/19 1:50:20 PM
60
it's all about picking the right tool for the job, no one language is the best at everything. some just plain suck though (cough cough PHP cough)
radical rhino
02/11/19 2:00:43 PM
61
I primarily use Fortran, and find it to be pretty simple to follow.
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meestermj
02/11/19 2:15:58 PM
62
I fucking hate Python.
I first learned on C++, and it made me detest how automated Python is.
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scar the 1
02/12/19 1:35:36 AM
63
Btw TC, once you get into it a little, I recommend installing Anaconda. It's a Python distribution with a lot of things included, and you get Spyder and Jupyter Notebook as well. Those are two softwares that make writing Python code a lot nicer.
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Everything has an end, except for the sausage. It has two.
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