Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 351 - Everyone Gets a Nerf

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azuarc
03/15/19 9:11:13 AM
352
Camden posted...
I hope the Twinspell gimmick doesn't end up being mostly expensive cards because you get two copies.

Depends on their design philosophy and if they want you to be able to cast the spell again that turn. Wouldn't surprise me either way.

Spellward Jeweler certainly isn't Dirty Rat, but it *is* disruption. The problem is that it doesn't stop any of the combo decks in the current meta because it doesn't protect against Fatigue, Mecha'Thun, Corrupted Blood, or Mind Blast.
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LiquidOshawott
03/15/19 9:48:07 AM
353
Im a little skeptical because Rat turned matchups completely into an opposite direction

We need good tech cards but not like insanely good tech cards
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metroid composite
03/15/19 9:51:29 AM
354
Spellward Jeweler is aggro disruption of anything, working against zoo, aggro mage, aggro rogue, hunters running Kill Command, etc. I can't really see it as combo disruption as it only works on malygos decks.

But you'd also need to run it in a deck where you feel ok slamming a 3 mana 3/4 on turn 3. So like...a tech for aggro decks against other aggro decks I guess?
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azuarc
03/15/19 12:09:24 PM
355
Right, it's protection against burn that doesn't come from minion battlecries. So on wild, where I see a lot of even shamans, it could keep you from getting crackled to death after you finally stabilize...for a turn. You generally need more than one turn, though.

So I really don't see it as impressive. It's really just a spider tank with upside. Draw it late in the match, and it still has use as something other than just a 3/4. I doubt it's going to be run with the intent of protecting the hero against fireballs or eviscerates, though, unless there's a meta where burn mage is a thing and you drop it on 9.
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UltimaterializerX
03/15/19 12:53:06 PM
356
LiquidOshawott posted...
Im a little skeptical because Rat turned matchups completely into an opposite direction

We need good tech cards but not like insanely good tech cards

Rat was fair.
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davidponte
03/15/19 12:57:26 PM
357
Rat could have saved us from the cancer that is Shudderwock and Mecha'Thun. It's probably the number 1 rotated card that I wish was still in Standard.
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davidponte
03/15/19 1:24:09 PM
358
I already hate the Rogue card that was just revealed. Thankfully it's a class card.
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Camden
03/15/19 1:37:57 PM
359
I wonder if there's an upper limit to those cards. I feel like there's going to be points where you don't want to play the card because it adds too many copies of something to your deck.
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UltimaterializerX
03/15/19 2:15:01 PM
360
Four games with hunter. Played DK Rexxar in all four and I have yet to see Charge, Lifesteal, or Rush.

This entire games RNG premise needs to disappear. This shit is unreal.
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KokoroAkechi
03/15/19 4:15:50 PM
361
Thoughts on the new cards

Spellward Jeweler
-I think right now this card would not be played. Almost all mages that are seeing play don't run any spells that directly hit face (because they are all odd), a lot of times Hunter is going to KC a minion to maintain board, Malygos Druid is rare. Mind Blast doesn't target. It just doesn't stop enough common burst decks or other types of OTK combos to be viable. However, if spell burst mage (with another new card) becomes a thing this might find its way into some deck slots as a tech option.

Kalecgos
-This is another card that would not see play right now (because it costs 10). I think it's too slow to be played as a finisher in any type of aggressive mage and in controlling types I don't think they really need the mana reduction as they just want to. If you can make it against aggro to drop this (without Jaina) do you need this? Unless Mage gets some more spell generation (like Cabalists tome). Or maybe decks just start to put in this and 2 pryoblasts and a lot of chip damage/defense. In any case, I think this is a card that will create a semi-new type of deck that might not work right away due to the quality of cards.

Chef Nomi
-I don't think this is a card that you put into your deck to actively try to reach the condition, I actually think it's either something you might slot in just because you have an easy time to make it work potentially (like Rogue) as like a fallback if your pirates don't kill them, but would be more of a thing as a direct counter to something like Togwaggle, or as just like a control matchup tech where you think you might go to fatigue consistently.

The Forest's Aid
-I think Tree Speaker is a low key good card that is only going to be a bit better with death knights leaving. With a lot of AoE and mass defensive options leaving the game it might be viable to play this and next turn be able to threaten with either a savage roar lethal, army of 5/5s, or trade half a card with an aoe option. It's obviously not good against aggro, but because of twinspell it's very strong in control matchups.

Hagatha's Scheme
-If this is in your hand for 3 turns I think it's an okay card, and any more it's a great card. It's a big deal that this doesn't overload you. However, shaman is just not in a good place right now. So even though this card should be good against some deck if you can defend for a couple of turns, I think it's just not a real thing right now due to the weakness of the class.

EVIL Miscreant
-Notice, EVIL is in all caps. The lackeys you get from this are very strong but it should be noted that you have to combo this to get them, the stats don't pressure, and you don't gain a tempo swing like you would with SI. Even if you play this with a combo on 4 and use a lackey right away I think rogue has always traditionally been able to make stronger tempo plays and going into your opponents turn 4 or 5 doing this if you only have maybe like 1/5, 1/1 and maybe like another minion doesn't seem that good. So on paper I think this is a strong card I actually don't think it'll start to make the final cut in a lot of decks.

Forbidden Words
-This is a stong card that notable lets priest hit 4 attack minions. It does mean that sometimes you might just need to use mana inefficiently but that's not really a thing that priest worries about.

Arch-Villian Rafaam
-It's very important this has taunt because it means it has some form of protection when you drop it versus aggro. In a control type matchup this is a very good card. Prince Liam in Paladin is really good and while I don't think this will be as good it's going to let you win games you otherwise would have not. Even more important now that a lot of value options are leaving the format.
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KokoroAkechi
03/15/19 4:15:55 PM
362
Togwaggles Scheme
-I think this is a potentially deck defining card that can be used to help a lot of different rogue decks. It's very notable that it only costs 1 (so you can use it with auctioneer) AND you can also target opponent minions. This can help make pogo rogue a thing, help you with something like chef nomi after a myras, play a Leroy, put 5 more into your deck, a whole lot of other things. This is a very dangerous card that I think its going to have an immediate impact.
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Camden
03/15/19 5:34:14 PM
363
I love how the new deckbuilder wants to build the best decks possible so it gives you Baku a lot, but doesn't seem to understand that you shouldn't include even cost cards with it.
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SaintAkira7
03/15/19 6:30:21 PM
364
KokoroAkechi posted...
Arch-Villian Rafaam


May be worth noting this hard counters Hakkar's effect. Now, whether Hakkar becomes prevalent enough for Warlock to want/need to counter him remains to be seen. But perhaps a Hakkar Warlock deck becomes a thing and Rafaam is how you get the bloods out of your own deck. Like I said, Idk if either of those scenarios come to pass or are viable, but may be worth noting.
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UltimaterializerX
03/15/19 6:53:19 PM
365
Chief Nomi is clearly meant to be played the turn after Myras Unstable Element.
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SaintAkira7
03/15/19 6:58:32 PM
366
UltimaterializerX posted...
Chief Nomi is clearly meant to be played the turn after Myras Unstable Element.


Or, Prep-Myra's, into Nomi as a turn 9 play.

But yeah, Nomi and Myra's are like peas and carrots. Idk how good it'll be, but I'm very much looking forward to pulling it off.
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metroid composite
03/15/19 9:53:24 PM
367
Camden posted...
I wonder if there's an upper limit to those cards. I feel like there's going to be points where you don't want to play the card because it adds too many copies of something to your deck.

Confirmed no upper limit.
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davidponte
03/15/19 10:30:39 PM
368
metroid composite posted...
Camden posted...
I wonder if there's an upper limit to those cards. I feel like there's going to be points where you don't want to play the card because it adds too many copies of something to your deck.

Confirmed no upper limit.


Gross
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KokoroAkechi
03/16/19 5:41:55 AM
369
Forgot to mention this

Chef nomi Summons six 6/6 elementals.

666
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metroid composite
03/17/19 11:45:54 AM
370
So I think I will craft golden genn and baku for the hall of fame, even though I already have non-golden, and then not disenchant anything. If they get nerfed at some point for wild, I make bank. If they never get nerfed, at some point I DE my golden copies and get the 1600 dust I would have gotten from crafting nothing.
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SaintAkira7
03/17/19 12:01:23 PM
371
There's a couple schools of thought I've heard regarding Baku/Genn going forward. One is that since the power they give, upgraded hero powers, is a constant and remains fixed, that other cards power levels will eventually overtake them, thus, in the Wild format at least, there will always be powerful enough answers to keep them from being as overpowered as they were in standard (relatively speaking).

Another thought is that eventually there will be a critical mass of cards that will lead to another format(s?) being created, with access to specific sets perhaps rotating or being excluded (similar to how Magic is, granted, Magic has been around forever). Thus allowing for Baku/Genn to be excluded.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that Baku and Genn will only grow in strength as more sets are released, and especially archetypes that make use of the "Baku Button" will only become more powerful as time passes. It's actually pretty interesting to contemplate how Baku and Genn will impact Wild over time, and it'll also be interesting to see if Team 5 gives zero shits designing cards going forward and give Odd/Even archetypes access to powerful stuff that may be meta-warping in Wild.

All that long ass reply to say; I think it's probably a smart investment for the future if someone's got the dust, and like you mentioned, if they never get touched or you want the dust, it's there for the DE-ing anyway. Not to mention you'll have golden copies to play with in the meantime.
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UltimaterializerX
03/17/19 12:11:41 PM
372
If you want to see the worst possible way a deck can run, just have me play it. I am playing the midrange hunter deck and my draw luck with it is so impossble it has to be seen to be believed. Ive seen DK Rexxar outside my bottom five in two games. My Tracking ALWAYS gives two copies of Dire Frenzy or Masters Call. When I do get to play rexxar the rng options are always complete shit.

I might actually like this game if I was actually allowed to play it, but 80% of the game is just cut off from me for whatever reason. Its just Magic all over again where I would run 30 land control decks (extra put in intentionally) and still get mana screwed in every single game, or run aggro decks with 12-16 lands and always get flooded.

Like the people who actually defend these systems of variance are simply not experiencing the worst of it on a regular basis. Thats my only conclusion here. No one who actually deals with this crap on the regular would ever defend it.
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MrSmartGuy
03/18/19 10:02:19 AM
373
This might be the most satisfying ending to a game of Hearthstone I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyrNxJloVqk" data-time="

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UltimaterializerX
03/18/19 11:34:22 AM
374
MrSmartGuy posted...
This might be the most satisfying ending to a game of Hearthstone I've ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyrNxJloVqk" data-time="

He won with rng, therefore it is invalid.

Like all ofher Hearthstone results.
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ColZach
03/18/19 1:18:45 PM
375
Card Name Swamp Queen Hagatha

Class: Shaman

Card type: Minion

Rarity: Legendary

Mana cost: 7

Attack: 5 Health: 5

Card text: Battlecry: Add a 5/5 [Horror](https://imgur.com/lb3IxOy) to your hand. Teach it two Shaman spells. (Note, teach means you Discover two Shaman spells, and the Horror will cast them as a Battlecry)

Source: [PlayHearthstone Twitter](https://twitter.com/PlayHearthstone/status/1107688241241698304)


New Shaman Legendary. Looks CRAZY fun.
BlackDra90n
03/18/19 1:51:35 PM
376
That's actually kinda cool. Like Deathstalker Rexxar but for spells.
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skullbone
03/18/19 1:55:54 PM
377
I'm wondering how targeted spells work if you select two, maybe the first spell is always targeted and the 2nd isn't? Also wondering if you can get duplicate spells, double bloodlust for 5 mana gg.
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skull
Camden
03/18/19 3:04:43 PM
378
skullbone posted...
I'm wondering how targeted spells work if you select two, maybe the first spell is always targeted and the 2nd isn't? Also wondering if you can get duplicate spells, double bloodlust for 5 mana gg.


https://twitter.com/legendaryferret/status/1107695976163115008
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UltimaterializerX
03/18/19 3:10:46 PM
379
YAY MORE RNG.

Totally playing shaman next set because why not.
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BlackDra90n
03/18/19 3:27:45 PM
380
Ulti were you playing when Renolock was a thing? With Kazakus and stuff?
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LiquidOshawott
03/18/19 3:31:24 PM
381
Shaman is the RNG Class tbqh

Their Hero Power is literally RNG
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UltimaterializerX
03/18/19 4:03:17 PM
382
BlackDra90n posted...
Ulti were you playing when Renolock was a thing? With Kazakus and stuff?

Outside one long break because fuck secret paladin Ive played from the beginning.
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ColZach
03/18/19 5:43:15 PM
383
Lmao ulti secret pally made you stop playing but not Quest Rogue, pirates, etc?

I guess it did have a certain flavor of painful to play against but I would have guessed something from Ungoro onward would have been worse.
Camden
03/18/19 6:19:17 PM
384
If your opponent plays Dead Man's Hand and you're Priest with Benedictus in your deck, you probably shouldn't drop a Thanks emote if your hand is full. At that point, you know exactly what card is getting burned.
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davidponte
03/18/19 6:23:59 PM
385
If my opponent plays Dead Man's Hand I usually concede because it was the last thing I was expecting and I always get wrecked by it.
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UltimaterializerX
03/18/19 6:46:40 PM
386
ColZach posted...
Lmao ulti secret pally made you stop playing but not Quest Rogue, pirates, etc?

I guess it did have a certain flavor of painful to play against but I would have guessed something from Ungoro onward would have been worse.

Aggro decks never bother me because I love playing them in this game. In HS I tend to play hard aggro or hard control. If I ran up on Quest Rogues a lot (back then I was playing Taunt Warrior and Pirate Warrior) I would just play Pirates and smash them. Wax Elemental, that 1/3 lifelink rush dude, and Giggling Inventor are far more annoying in that deck than the Ungoro version. Quest Rogue literally could not beat aggro at the time.

Secret Paladin was the most unfun trash I have ever seen, because it had no counterplay, though Caverns Below is by far the worst design I've ever seen in any card game. Secrets in general are just not designed for a game like this where you can't pick the stack order, so you had to sit there and try to luckbox into popping them off in the wrong order for them. I think the only real counter back then was Flare? I was fine with Huntertaker because I was playing the deck (<_<). I was ok with Shamanstone because I saw the tail end of that deck's life and loved playing it. Secret Paladin can just fuck off. This was also not long after that GvG trash came around and turned Hearthstone into a shitshow.
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UltimaterializerX
03/18/19 8:56:44 PM
387
Oh look dk rexxar once again not giving me any good options. This is so indefensibly terrible its unreal.
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MrSmartGuy
03/19/19 9:03:25 AM
388
Just completely fucked up a Freeze Mage in Wild.

I had two 2/2 Deathlords on the board and he played Coldlight Oracle in desperation to try and find his combo pieces because I was actively killing my minions off. Attack first one in, pulls Sorceror's Apprentice. Attack second one into that, pulls Antonidas. He is promptly Entombed.

Then final lethal was achieved by Drakonid Operative netting me his second Coldlight at the bottom of his deck, and making him draw his last card, dealing 3 damage through his Ice Block.
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UltimaterializerX
03/19/19 5:56:35 PM
389
Idiot warlock player hard cast both Doomguards. He pitched DK Guldan, Dark Pact, Cube, and Defile.

Did he top deck his other Cube and hero powered to get his other Dark Pact without even being halfway down his deck? Of course he did, because Hearthstone is never allowed to be skill based. Hard casting Doomguard is just an idiotic play, but this game does not punish idiotic plays. There is always draw luck or rng to bail people out.

800 people fired because they suck at making games. I am in the majority opinion on Hearthstone being garbage. The end. This game will never, ever have legitimate results.

Hell we cant even get a fucking auto squelch.
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UltimaterializerX
03/19/19 7:14:57 PM
390
More proof matchups are determined by what you play. I faced all bad matchups when playing hunter. I switched to shaman and now Im seeing nothing but hard control.

This game literally doesnt actually let me play it, then people wonder why I think this game is garbage. Im not playing the same thing everyone else is. Anyone would detest this shit Im looking at.
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NewerShadow
03/21/19 12:12:27 AM
391
In expansion news, the card reveal schedule is finally live, with 42 non-blizzard instances over a week and a half, starting with a livestream on Monday at 10 PDT on the hearthstone twitch channel, and with the card dump around April 3.

Revealed card list + reveal schedule: https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/expansions-adventures/rise-of-shadows/cards
KokoroAkechi
03/21/19 5:15:48 AM
392
Man speaking of DMH. I queued into Fibonacci today. He was playing the same deck he always plays (control warrior). He was playing a list with DMH (one copy), Hakar, Explore ungoro, etc. I was playing Tesspionage. Like I've never seen him play not control warrior on ladder.

THE GAME LASTED FOREVER. Like, it's too bad for him that one of my warrior cards from espionage was a DMH, which also triggered when I played Tess.

But not as long as this game I saw Kibler play in a Benedictus quest priest mirror which reached the turn count. MY MASTER WILL (ZZZZZ)
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MrSmartGuy
03/21/19 5:31:37 AM
393
I haven't ever reached a turn count, but I have won a game when there were a combined 119 cards left in both decks.
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UltimaterializerX
03/21/19 1:01:44 PM
394
Played a game against rng rogue where he played DK Rexxar on turn 2, because Hearthstone is not designed correctly. And I got to play the same guy twice in a row because of Hearthstone allegedly having a large player base. Lost to rng garbage yet again.

So after that I got to play against a wall priest running benedictus. I was even shaman, so the guy played benedictus and Im like ok, his draws are screwed and Im an aggro deck.

He drew both Hex, both Chain Gang, Alakir, Hagatha, and Lich King before I drew any of those cards. I got to play a game where I got someone to one health and they won because of a literal rng bailout.

Anyone who defends this games design is clearly just not all there. Having a video game where not a single result is legitimate due to a system where no decision has a factor on results is the single most indefensible load of garbage in gaming history. Only Warcraft 3s hero rpg item system (coincidentally this is also heavily influenced by rng bullshit) is even remotely comparable.

The same company designed both of those games. I just CANNOT figure out how 800 pieces of human garbage got fired from that company. Cant possibly be due to their games being shit and the company losing half its value in under a month. Nah.

Worst game ever made. By far. Not even close. And it always will be until all rng is removed. No one who defends this will EVER be taken seriously moving forward.
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LiquidOshawott
03/21/19 1:33:51 PM
395
Some new cards today

Think Omega Devastator will be very strong off of Boom or Assembly

Rafaam scheme and all the juggles, though depends on if Warlock gets a Savage Roar or Bloodlust Card to be good

The Warrior Lackey Card seems eh, but Im not sure about the power level of the lackeys, since some seem a lot better than others
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Camden
03/21/19 1:49:12 PM
396
Before I watched the video, I thought Rafaam's Scheme was completely busted. I assumed it was 1 1/1, 2 2/2s, 3 3/3s and so on. Now it looks like pack filler.
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UltimaterializerX
03/21/19 4:16:36 PM
397
LiquidOshawott posted...
Some new cards today

Think Omega Devastator will be very strong off of Boom or Assembly

Rafaam scheme and all the juggles, though depends on if Warlock gets a Savage Roar or Bloodlust Card to be good

The Warrior Lackey Card seems eh, but Im not sure about the power level of the lackeys, since some seem a lot better than others

Dont forget the typo on that warrior card because Blizzard are fucking idiots. No self awareness, either.
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ColZach
03/21/19 5:23:03 PM
398
Wheres my PALADIN CARDS BLIZZARD
UltimaterializerX
03/21/19 8:04:56 PM
399
ColZach posted...
Wheres my PALADIN CARDS BLIZZARD

What he said.
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Camden
03/22/19 3:58:28 PM
400
The new Priest legendary feels very... unlegendary. I thought it was an epic at first.
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skullbone
03/22/19 4:06:37 PM
401
Getting to see 3 cards in your opponents hard AND copy one for 3 mana and 3/2 stats is a little boring but crazy strong. Auto include in every priest deck going forward
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