Board 8 > Umineko Theatregoing Topic *unmarked spoilers for the whole series*

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GANON1025
03/30/19 12:03:03 PM
#151:


What WERE the Chestier sisters representations of? Maria's toys that she claimed were alive, and when she talked about them with Beatrice they thought up characters for them? This one is a bit more mystifying to me, because you have illusions like Zephar and Furfur who obviously are reflections of Yasu's thoughts on love and gender so I would almost expect the bunny girls to have more meaning.
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GANON1025
03/30/19 12:04:32 PM
#152:


I suppose you could say they reflect Yasu's friendship with Maria, or the idea of "dolls/toys given life" could be seen as another example of Yasu thinking of themselves as "furniture".
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Tom Bombadil
03/30/19 12:05:22 PM
#153:


the winCHESTER rifles

and also figurines
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Popcorn_Fairy
03/30/19 12:05:42 PM
#154:


GANON1025 posted...
What WERE the Chestier sisters representations of? Maria's toys that she claimed were alive, and when she talked about them with Beatrice they thought up characters for them? This one is a bit more mystifying to me, because you have illusions like Zephar and Furfur who obviously are reflections of Yasu's thoughts on love and gender so I would almost expect the bunny girls to have more meaning.


Chiesters are Maria's toys. There was a rabbit band, and Rosa broke one.
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GANON1025
03/30/19 12:12:54 PM
#155:


Well sure, even one of the goats claim that when they attack the house in Episode 8. But do they hold a deeper meaning???
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Popcorn_Fairy
03/30/19 12:18:40 PM
#156:


Nope.

I personally think people look too deep at this game
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Reg
03/30/19 1:38:07 PM
#157:


Tom Bombadil posted...
it's like the magical entities are being written by a literal child who just wants to keep coming up with more and more ideas


oh hey he made the connection

He's somehow incredibly close to understanding the truth of everything, but he doesn't realize it and he wouldn't realize it was the answer even if he finished connecting the dots
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Raka_Putra
04/01/19 3:37:49 AM
#158:


GANON1025 posted...
Well sure, even one of the goats claim that when they attack the house in Episode 8. But do they hold a deeper meaning???

Not really, just Maria's loneliness.
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GANON1025
04/01/19 5:42:02 PM
#159:


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Team Rocket Elite
04/01/19 5:49:30 PM
#160:


It's a package of all the Umineko VNs along with a new episode. I think it is supposed to come out this summer.
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GANON1025
04/01/19 7:18:14 PM
#161:


A new episode?? Isn't that a big deal?
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Raka_Putra
04/01/19 8:31:29 PM
#162:


It's probably another side story. You should read Tsubasa, Hane, etc. too.
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GANON1025
04/01/19 8:54:43 PM
#163:


What are those?
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Raka_Putra
04/02/19 6:26:12 AM
#164:


One-shot short stories.

https://umineko.fandom.com/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_Tsubasa
https://umineko.fandom.com/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni_Hane

My favorite is Game Master Battler:
While he is making Dawn of the Golden Witch, Battler is approached by all the other characters, who are willing to do anything to get a bigger role in his game.
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GANON1025
04/02/19 8:33:11 AM
#165:


That DOES sound fun!

I do wonder how Battler's game would have played it had it not gotten interrupted. Battler claimed he was going to reveal the truth, but would he REALLY have shown everything about Yasu? I doubt it, I can see Battler wanting to keep Yasu and their life "safe" and honored. So I would imagine that the love game would be a metaphor for the fact that Shannon, Kannon and Beatrice are the same person. Maybe a big clue is shown to Jessica, nothing is explicitly SAID but you can basically infer what is going on. If you reveal those three are the same, then you can show the truth of the crimes without having to go into Yasu's story.
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Raka_Putra
04/02/19 11:02:28 AM
#166:


There's the manga version too since I think it's more accessible.

Yeah, I agree that Battler is not ever the type of person who would reveal the whole truth without embellishment...especially after what he did in EP8.
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Tom Bombadil
04/02/19 6:20:05 PM
#167:


a new challenger approaches
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77610922

Also! I have a solo-compatible RPG I've been trying out by self-inserting myself into random crap like a 14-year-old fanfic writer, and it turns out Gohda was the culprit all along. He stole the ferry and made off with most of the gold but hey at least I disarmed the bomb and he only did two and a half twilights!
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JeffreyRaze
04/04/19 11:57:47 AM
#168:


Thought Kanon was a girl at first

Haha, wonder if he'll remember this later?
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Tom Bombadil
04/04/19 12:34:20 PM
#169:


handsomeboy2012 posted...
I also have a crackpot theory that Shannon and Kanon are the illegitimate children of... someone in the family, which explains why 1) They started working as servants at a very young age 2) The older brother's wife don't like them 3) They act like siblings 4) Lots of servants have left but they didn't even if they are not very welcome 5) They have English-like names ... this one is a stretch though because it seems lots of other unknown servants have them.


popcornfairy.gif
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/04/19 12:36:14 PM
#170:


Oh damn. Thinking on the right track there.
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Raka_Putra
04/08/19 4:05:32 AM
#171:


I love how Dels hopes EP5-8 will not contain magic lol.
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Eerieka
04/08/19 6:10:37 AM
#172:


Tom Bombadil posted...
handsomeboy2012 posted...
I also have a crackpot theory that Shannon and Kanon are the illegitimate children of... someone in the family, which explains why 1) They started working as servants at a very young age 2) The older brother's wife don't like them 3) They act like siblings 4) Lots of servants have left but they didn't even if they are not very welcome 5) They have English-like names ... this one is a stretch though because it seems lots of other unknown servants have them.


popcornfairy.gif


I think it's funny how many people assume Shannon and Kanon are bastards of the family, and then forget they had that theory. Arria suggested they were "Kinzo's by-blows" as soon as they appeared, and yet now in Ep 5 and 6, even with all the stuff about the Man from 19 years ago and the baby that was tossed off the cliff... it's like she forgot Shannon and Kanon might be that kid.
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Tom Bombadil
04/08/19 6:42:44 AM
#173:


what DID Ange see that shouldn't exist? I don't remember that at all >_>
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Sceptilesolar
04/08/19 7:26:10 AM
#174:


The mass produced Sakutaros.
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Eerieka
04/08/19 8:01:25 AM
#175:


Tom Bombadil posted...
what DID Ange see that shouldn't exist? I don't remember that at all >_>


Yeah, with the new backgrounds, this is what you see:

http://i61.tinypic.com/25pidg4.png

Also, GameFAQs told me when I tried to post this that posting a tinypic link is bad because of vandalism. I literally just googled some phrases and found the first pic that showed the background, so if there's something 'bad' about this link, well, I'm sorry?
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/08/19 8:58:01 AM
#176:


Eerieka posted...
Also, GameFAQs told me when I tried to post this that posting a tinypic link is bad because of vandalism. I literally just googled some phrases and found the first pic that showed the background, so if there's something 'bad' about this link, well, I'm sorry?


Tinypic is bad because anyone who has the link can add tags to it. People like to go and add all kinds of nasty things as tags which ends up in the post being moderated. Thus, vandalism. I'd recommend ImgTC as an image host.
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Eerieka
04/08/19 10:58:10 AM
#177:


Popcorn_Fairy posted...
Eerieka posted...
Also, GameFAQs told me when I tried to post this that posting a tinypic link is bad because of vandalism. I literally just googled some phrases and found the first pic that showed the background, so if there's something 'bad' about this link, well, I'm sorry?


Tinypic is bad because anyone who has the link can add tags to it. People like to go and add all kinds of nasty things as tags which ends up in the post being moderated. Thus, vandalism. I'd recommend ImgTC as an image host.


I do use Imgtc personally, but I didn't want to be assed to save a pic and reupload it there. Oh well, if someone is petty enough to do all that stuff you mentioned and I get moderated, meh.
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GANON1025
04/08/19 11:11:28 AM
#178:


If I tag that pic with horrible bitch its only because Im talking about Rosa
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Tom Bombadil
04/10/19 6:41:51 AM
#179:


I had to google "gretel umineko" and I still don't remember that being a thing >_>

[Bern]'s the only witch who is confirmed to actually be "good"


whoops

i demand answers!

and guess what, i'm almost at the part of the game literally named after them!


whoops

i don't think it's something as simple as "yeah kinzo really has been dead all along", because, well, that's just weird.


whoops

i really do hope episodes 5 to 8 focus exclusively on these mysteries and just drop all the ridiculous magic...


whoops
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/10/19 10:34:54 AM
#180:


Dels posted...
Does that mean Bernkastel is being made up as well? She's the only witch who is confirmed to actually be "good"


lol
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Raka_Putra
04/10/19 9:32:23 PM
#181:


Popcorn_Fairy posted...
Dels posted...
Does that mean Bernkastel is being made up as well? She's the only witch who is confirmed to actually be "good"


lol

To be fair, probably everyone thought that.
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Team Rocket Elite
04/10/19 10:00:42 PM
#182:


"I am the cruelest witch in the world. I will make any opponent of mine surrender without fail."

I don't think good people say things like that and she says it in Episode 1. >_>
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Raka_Putra
04/11/19 1:36:41 AM
#183:


Oh come on, it's not like we can remember every single line after all the craziness in EP2-EP4!
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Raka_Putra
04/11/19 8:57:31 AM
#184:


I am glad Dels finally finished the least exciting episode (IMO).
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/11/19 12:14:23 PM
#185:


Dels posted...
the game wasn't giving me what i needed to actually solve things.

and it still hasn't.


Goddamn it Dels, yes it has.
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GANON1025
04/11/19 8:11:53 PM
#186:


Has it? I don't think there's any reasonable way someone could figure out what is happening with where he is. The worst part is that he might actually believe answers will come in the Answer arc, the poor fool.
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/11/19 8:14:57 PM
#187:


GANON1025 posted...
Has it? I don't think there's any reasonable way someone could figure out what is happening with where he is. The worst part is that he might actually believe answers will come in the Answer arc, the poor fool.


I had it mostly solved before starting answer arcs. I wasn't 100% right, but I had the mastermind, motivation, and a general theory of how it was done.
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Sceptilesolar
04/11/19 8:17:37 PM
#188:


Most of the solution had been bandied about in the fan community prior to ep5's release. The solution to the epitaph had been worked out by a few mad geniuses, and we were at least aware Shkanontrice was a viable explanation for the culprit. The mechanics for how it worked weren't as well established; that really requires Ep6. A lot of people were worried about some kind of multiple personality solution and rejected the correct answer out of hand as a result. But if you wait half a year and just talk about Umineko, turns out you can indeed work most of it out.
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GANON1025
04/11/19 8:19:13 PM
#189:


Well maybe you need to have a right frame of mind or something. I had guessed that Shannon was the main killer, but when I guessed that Shannon was Kanon and WANTED to believe it there was so much contradictory stuff against it that it appears to be impossible.
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GANON1025
04/11/19 8:20:17 PM
#190:


Multiple personalities are a bit of a cop out, not gonna lie. No matter how well it's done, it feels just a LITTLE cheap.
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Zyxyz0
04/11/19 8:43:03 PM
#191:


GANON1025 posted...
Multiple personalities are a bit of a cop out, not gonna lie. No matter how well it's done, it feels just a LITTLE cheap.

it's not exactly "multiple personalities" in this case, tbf...
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Popcorn_Fairy
04/11/19 8:54:48 PM
#192:


Multiple Personalities was my main theory most of the game, found some of my old Umineko Notes.

Popcorn_Fairy Notes
I'm feeling really good about my Umineko multiple personality theory. Going back and re-reading the end of episode 4 with that theory in mind and I caught a line where they refused to repeat in red a line about multiple names. Multiple names can very quickly lead into multiple personalities. I think that this could solve Nanjo's murder from episode 3. EVA declared with red everyone dead by name. But if someone is using a different name, then that could bypass EVA's red, correct? Battler brings up multiple personalities and different names, but only applies it to Jessica. EVA shoots it down with red, but only applies it to Jessica. So, by applying multiple names/personalities to one of the dead, EVA could easily declare in red so and so is dead, tricking us to believe that. They then use a different name, the red is no longer applying to them, meaning they aren't necessarily dead. Boom, shoot Nanjo. Mystery solved.


Popcorn_Fairy Notes
The Multiple Personality Theory solves even more of Umineko's mysteries.

All the clues lead to Kanon having the second personality. The second episode had the servants attacked by something resembling Kanon, who was dead at the time. Multiple Personalities explains it. When Kanon died, the second personality took control and attacked the servants. This doesn't contradict the red, it's not another person with Kanon's name, and they aren't mistaking another person for Kanon, they are mistaking Kanon's other self as Kanon. Now, I haven't gone back to that specific part to see if there is any red at the time that contradicts it, but I don't remember any.

This theory also explains most of episode 1. In episode 1's tea party, Shannon said that Kanon's death was a huge hint. Red text also says that nobody alive or dead killed him, it wasn't an accident, and it wasn't suicice. Now this is a HUGE stretch and really twisted logic, but if Kanon's other personality killed Kanon, it could be called a homicide and not necessarily suicide. Then with Kanon's other personality in control, we could follow similar logic to Battler's extra person theory. Kanon, now believed to be dead, could easily have killed Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo. And he could have been the one to shoot Natsuhi.


Popcorn_Fairy Notes
I have a theory. I've been holding off on explaining because it sounds stupid as hell. But, whatever.

Battler's Sin. Something simple. Something that we'd forget really easily. Beginning of Episode 3. Throwaway line, thought it was in episode 1, but it was 3. Shannon mentions six years ago, Battler said, "I'll be back. <See you again> I'll surely come for you riding a white horse." Quick humor line, making fun of Battler, something we laugh off and forget. But, Battler didn't come back. Red text says "No person named Beatrice existed for Battler six years ago." So, motivated by Battler not returning, Shannon created the illusion of the Witch.

Not 100% on how Kanon fits into all of this, but he must. I already established that I was under the impression that he had another personality. This clears up the who. It all sounds stupid when I say it, but it makes sense. It makes sense.

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Reg
04/11/19 8:55:43 PM
#193:


Zyxyz0 posted...
GANON1025 posted...
Multiple personalities are a bit of a cop out, not gonna lie. No matter how well it's done, it feels just a LITTLE cheap.

it's not exactly "multiple personalities" in this case, tbf...

Nope. It's just a brat LARPing instead.
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Tom Bombadil
04/12/19 12:18:11 PM
#194:


handsomeboy2012 posted...
I bet Maria's father's identity is going to be important at some point


one would think

also is dels yet at the part where "without love it can't be seen" becomes a line twice a scene? ...is that even how it's translated now?
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Eerieka
04/12/19 12:34:02 PM
#195:


That line appears in Ep 4, but you don't get bombarded with it until Ep 5 imo.
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GANON1025
04/12/19 6:34:20 PM
#196:


So here I am getting into mystery novels now. I read through And Then There Were None, which was real good BUT it's breaking some of Knox's rules!!!!! Well that can't be allowed right???? Umineko taught be so
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Tom Bombadil
04/12/19 6:41:53 PM
#197:


That was a big influence on Ryukishi apparently!
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Team Rocket Elite
04/12/19 7:02:26 PM
#198:


GANON1025 posted...
So here I am getting into mystery novels now. I read through And Then There Were None, which was real good BUT it's breaking some of Knox's rules!!!!! Well that can't be allowed right???? Umineko taught be so


That's the one I tried to read as well after finishing Umineko. Trying to apply Umineko rules to try and solve it didn't go so well. >_>
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Eerieka
04/12/19 9:52:11 PM
#199:


Hah, I tried applying the Knox rules to The Murder of Roger Ackroyd.... yeah...
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GANON1025
04/12/19 9:54:14 PM
#200:


Dlanor is rolling in her grave
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