Poll of the Day > Do you support trump's proposed border wall?

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TyVulpine
01/11/19 12:34:10 PM
102
imagine606 posted...
Y'all are aware of the existence of airplanes and work visas, right? That's how the vast majority of illegal immigrants come in. Wouldn't a metaphorical wall of better enforcement of expiring visas work much better? Hell, when it comes to the border there's more people that cross it into Mexico than into the US. That is why the wall is a waste of money. It addresses none of the actual issues. Anyone who is against illegal immigration should be for the money going into other places of enforcement than the wall.

Trump supporters dont like facts, so they ignore things like your post.
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streamofthesky
01/11/19 12:40:07 PM
103
darkknight109 posted...
Because the Texas border is all owned by private landowners, that will involve making use of eminent domain and - take it from me, I work in an industry where we deal with this on a pretty regular basis - eminent domain takes fucking forever to resolve. First you have to work out what each parcel of land you're buying is worth and make an offer to the landowner for "fair compensation" based on market rates, land value, devaluation of the remainder of the property, etc. If they decline the offer, they get to fight the application in court - most of them don't win, but they still can take up time by basically saying "I'm not being offered fair value, I should get higher compensation." If you want to get an idea of how long this takes, there are still landowner cases pending litigation from the George W. Bush administration, and their fence bill was passed in 2006.

But, of course, some of the landowners will sell voluntarily and we're finally free of the court system and bureaucratic red tape. What happens then?

Still no wall.

Next you have to actually do the land surveys, geological studies, and engineering work. You have to build access roads to get construction vehicles to the site and procure the materials you need. Then finally - finally - you can start to build the wall.

But that all takes time - *lots* of time.

Great overview of the process, but I have concerns with this portion. You're making two very questionable assumptions: 1) That Trump gives even a single fuck about building an effective wall and actually trying to cut down on illegal immigration rather than using the wall as one big hollow gesture to his base; and that 2) he will actually follow normal and rational processes for building a wall.

I consider the wall a colossal fucking waste of money, and would rather not see literally billions of dollars poured into such a boondoggle.
My fear is...Trump quickly gathers up info on all the places that are public-owned or where the private owners will sell w/o a court battle, and....with none of the planning or surveying that a rational person would perform before such a big project, just pushes for segments of the wall to be put up ASAP in the disparate areas he can do so right away.
Then he basically has what he wants -- something concrete (heh) to point to and tell his crazed followers, "See, I'm working towards building that wall! We're gonna build it up, piece by piece, until we have all the land rights to connect it into one contiguous wall!" (obviously not in such a lucid manner of speaking, but even just trying to mimic his speaking style makes me feel ill)
Of course, the rest of the wall will never be built because he'll be out of office before those eminent domain cases are settled, but we'll still have wasted ass loads of money for nothing, just so he could get his stupid little trophy and keep the crazies from abandoning / turning on him while he still needs their votes.
streamofthesky
01/11/19 12:41:46 PM
104
DeltaBladeX posted...
https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1083169537263054849

That is fucking amazing! Thanks for that.
ChaoticKnuckles
01/11/19 1:01:20 PM
105
I dont think its going to work well enough to be worth the money it takes to build it. Similarly to how its not cost effective to drug test welfare recipients. Its been tried and you end up spending more money on testing than you save by catching people that are on drugs and removing them from the system.

I believe something similar will happen with a wall. I think we will see a negligible drop in people crossing the border illegally and well have a $5 billion price tag to deal with. Or more. Wouldnt be surprised if building were to start and then down the line more money is needed.
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You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI.
streamofthesky
01/11/19 1:03:19 PM
106
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
...and well have a $5 billion price tag to deal with. Or more. Wouldnt be surprised if building were to start and then down the line more money is needed.

Oh, it's going to be way more than $5 billion.

That's gonna be a fraction of the total cost, especially when the annual maintenance costs for the life of said wall are added in.
Mead
01/11/19 1:03:27 PM
107
Lokarin posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Revelation34 posted...
More crimes are committed by citizens than they are illegals. Let's deport them too.

Illegal immigrants have a 100% crime rate, and deporting citizens is just sending them back home, what kind of punishment is that?


By that logic if an illegal immigrant commits any crime they can achieve and over 100% crime rate


Theyre hard to stop at that point because they start unlocking prestige criminal abilities
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ChaoticKnuckles
01/11/19 1:08:40 PM
108
Lokarin posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Revelation34 posted...
More crimes are committed by citizens than they are illegals. Let's deport them too.

Illegal immigrants have a 100% crime rate, and deporting citizens is just sending them back home, what kind of punishment is that?


By that logic if an illegal immigrant commits any crime they can achieve and over 100% crime rate


Thats not how that works. If theyre criminals already, committing more crimes doesnt increase the number of them that are criminals. It cant go over 100%.
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You look EXTREMELY immature when you announce that you're about to ignore someone. No one cares, including the person about to be ignored. Just FYI.
Zanimar
01/11/19 1:10:12 PM
109
Ya know, I don't see why Trump just doesn't pay for it himself. He's an American and he's super rich, he should just use his own money and people to build the wall. After all, if he truly cared about economy and what not, he'd be more than happy to use tons of his money to create new jobs (needing people to build the wall) and it would not need to use government money which would only create more debt. Honestly, a good president should lead by example and give up their own money first before forcing a whole nation to pay for something such as this.

Not trying to be sarcastic or anything of the sort, as I would apply this to any and all presidents both past and future. A president should be willing to give up any and all excess money they may have, only keeping enough that is needed to live comfortably at a middle class level until they can regain a regular job before they start tapping into funds of the country. Afterall, how can you convince the populous that what you want is worth paying for, if you aren't even gonna pay for it with your own money first.
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streamofthesky
01/11/19 1:14:03 PM
110
Zanimar posted...
Ya know, I don't see why Trump just doesn't pay for it himself. He's an American and he's super rich, he should just use his own money and people to build the wall. After all, if he truly cared about economy and what not, he'd be more than happy to use tons of his money to create new jobs (needing people to build the wall) and it would not need to use government money which would only create more debt. Honestly, a good president should lead by example and give up their own money first before forcing a whole nation to pay for something such as this.

Not trying to be sarcastic or anything of the sort, as I would apply this to any and all presidents both past and future. A president should be willing to give up any and all excess money they may have, only keeping enough that is needed to live comfortably at a middle class level until they can regain a regular job before they start tapping into funds of the country. Afterall, how can you convince the populous that what you want is worth paying for, if you aren't even gonna pay for it with your own money first.

Well, most presidents aren't billionaires, even after leaving office and milking speaking deals and honorary positions and such.

But Trump claims he is, and says the wall will cost $5 billion or so.

So yeah, the proposals sent to him should first say, "the president is authorized to use his incredible negotiating skills to get Mexico to pay for the wall" and if that is rejected, "If you want the wall so badly, you have the personal wealth to pay for it, so feel free..."

:D
TyVulpine
01/11/19 2:14:40 PM
111
Lokarin posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Revelation34 posted...
More crimes are committed by citizens than they are illegals. Let's deport them too.

Illegal immigrants have a 100% crime rate, and deporting citizens is just sending them back home, what kind of punishment is that?


By that logic if an illegal immigrant commits any crime they can achieve and over 100% crime rate

Illegal immigration isnt actually a crime in most cases. If theyre caught, theyre simply sent back to their country of origin.
---
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Mead
01/11/19 2:16:49 PM
112
TyVulpine posted...
Lokarin posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Revelation34 posted...
More crimes are committed by citizens than they are illegals. Let's deport them too.

Illegal immigrants have a 100% crime rate, and deporting citizens is just sending them back home, what kind of punishment is that?


By that logic if an illegal immigrant commits any crime they can achieve and over 100% crime rate

Illegal immigration isnt actually a crime in most cases. If theyre caught, theyre simply sent back to their country of origin.


Yeah and its more of a civil infringement really, even to law enforcement
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If they drag you through the mud, it doesnt change whats in your blood
darkknight109
01/11/19 2:36:33 PM
113
streamofthesky posted...
Great overview of the process, but I have concerns with this portion. You're making two very questionable assumptions: 1) That Trump gives even a single fuck about building an effective wall and actually trying to cut down on illegal immigration rather than using the wall as one big hollow gesture to his base; and that 2) he will actually follow normal and rational processes for building a wall.

I consider the wall a colossal fucking waste of money, and would rather not see literally billions of dollars poured into such a boondoggle.
My fear is...Trump quickly gathers up info on all the places that are public-owned or where the private owners will sell w/o a court battle, and....with none of the planning or surveying that a rational person would perform before such a big project, just pushes for segments of the wall to be put up ASAP in the disparate areas he can do so right away.
Then he basically has what he wants -- something concrete (heh) to point to and tell his crazed followers, "See, I'm working towards building that wall! We're gonna build it up, piece by piece, until we have all the land rights to connect it into one contiguous wall!"

That planning or surveying is a mandatory part of the process, though. The engineering work can't proceed without it.

I'm an engineer and, like all professional engineers, I have obligations and responsibilities that I am required by law to uphold. If someone presented me plans for a freestanding structure - like the wall - in an area where soil testing and land surveys had not be carried out, I would refuse to stamp or authorize those plans. If push came to shove, I would resign - I would basically have no other choice, because signing off on a project like that constitutes unprofessional conduct and I could easily lose my license to practice over it. No engineer with any scruples or brains whatsoever would ever willingly endorse a project like that.

As for building the wall piecemeal, that largely wouldn't work. Keep in mind the wall isn't something you can just airlift into position; you'll need to get all your equipment and materials to the property, so even if Joe Average, Trump Supporter gives you permission to build on his property, that doesn't mean anything unless you can get his neighbours to sign on as well, because you'll need an access road suitable for heavy equipment to be constructed first and that cannot be done unless it's contiguous.
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Susanowo
01/12/19 4:04:38 AM
114
No. Who does?
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ClarkDuke
01/12/19 4:11:17 AM
115
SunWuKung420
01/12/19 6:17:00 AM
116
Susanowo posted...
No. Who does?


@DPsx7
@RoboXgp89
@Hop103
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Lokarin
01/12/19 7:33:06 AM
117
TyVulpine posted...
Lokarin posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Revelation34 posted...
More crimes are committed by citizens than they are illegals. Let's deport them too.

Illegal immigrants have a 100% crime rate, and deporting citizens is just sending them back home, what kind of punishment is that?


By that logic if an illegal immigrant commits any crime they can achieve and over 100% crime rate

Illegal immigration isnt actually a crime in most cases. If theyre caught, theyre simply sent back to their country of origin.


What's funny is our Premiere started using the term "Irregular Immigration" because it's more accurate, it's not a crime... and he's getting flak from the righties over it
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Revelation34
01/12/19 12:03:18 PM
118
ChaoticKnuckles posted...
Thats not how that works. If theyre criminals already, committing more crimes doesnt increase the number of them that are criminals. It cant go over 100%.


Them having a 100% crime rate isn't how it works either.
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imagine606
01/12/19 3:11:56 PM
119
It's only a crime to people who want their lives run by imaginary lines.
captpackrat
01/12/19 7:01:52 PM
120
A wall won't work because people can go over a wall. We need to cover the entire United States with an air-tight transparent dome. That'll keep all them fureners out!
TyVulpine
01/12/19 7:38:51 PM
121
captpackrat posted...
A wall won't work because people can go over a wall. We need to cover the entire United States with an air-tight transparent dome. That'll keep all them fureners out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZFaOd8XL8E" data-time="

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