Board 8 > Mercenaries 5 Preseason Topic 2: That's The Name Of The Game

Topic List
Page List: 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
DeathChicken
03/13/19 11:35:04 AM
#302:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77557039

I'm bored, let's get this science experiment on the road
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/14/19 2:37:36 PM
#303:


Punisher thumps Freddy 4-1

Well, there's my answer on "Is Freddy too powerful for this game"
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/16/19 7:00:43 AM
#304:


...
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/16/19 2:17:59 PM
#305:


So I haven't gotten round to it yet but I'm curious

is Dante as crazy as he seems to be in DMC5? Cause it's looking like he's a candidate for retirement at this point due to breaking the scale and Nero can take his place
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy
03/18/19 12:51:47 PM
#306:


Just from what I've seen based on a recurring boss... spoilers for the obvious spoiler you're expecting.

DMCV Dante > DMCV Vergil >>>>> Nero > Start of DMCV Dante, Trish, and Lady at the same time >>>>>> V >> Start of DMCV Nero seems to be the hierarchy right now.
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
Dantezoid
03/18/19 1:03:27 PM
#307:


Would Freddy have to kill ALL of the dreamy luigis
---
Boring and mundane signature informing you I'm on a Droid
Now with more bold! Less italics due to bold.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lolo_Guru
03/18/19 6:06:17 PM
#308:


Dantezoid posted...
Would Freddy have to kill ALL of the dreamy luigis

Yes, absolutely.
---
Lolo
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/21/19 8:16:13 AM
#309:


...
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
greengravy294
03/21/19 8:28:54 AM
#310:


Either dante is 8 upkeep or dont bother with his inclusion. He absolutely demolishes the strongest 7s from m4 with even extreme limitations tbqh
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/22/19 8:52:49 PM
#311:


So having finally gotten REmake2, I'd call Mr. X pretty impressively upgraded (and yet still not good as Nemesis if we're forcing an either/or). Birkin though is a fuckton meaner
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScareChan
03/25/19 1:50:12 AM
#312:


You know what we should impliment? Synergy bonus for your team. If you roster multiple people from the same series or franchise they should get a boost. Like if you roster Mario and Luigi they all get 1.5 stat boosts, something along those lines
---
Lets Smash- Switch friend code SW-5264-0547-1806
PSN TehScurr
... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59
03/25/19 1:50:29 AM
#313:


Please no.
---
""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScareChan
03/25/19 1:51:08 AM
#314:


Why not?
---
Lets Smash- Switch friend code SW-5264-0547-1806
PSN TehScurr
... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59
03/25/19 1:52:21 AM
#315:


Dr. Mog had that ability and giving that kind of boost to anyone who is worth anything totally breaks them.
---
""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScareChan
03/25/19 2:53:01 AM
#316:


Something like a 10% boost I dont feel would be breaking, 1.5 may a bit much, sure, but 10% should be fair
---
Lets Smash- Switch friend code SW-5264-0547-1806
PSN TehScurr
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy
03/25/19 12:50:46 PM
#317:


I'm more inclined to either grant inherent buffs or have passives activated by characters existing, i.e. giving the Mario Bros their Mario & Luigi Bros Moves if rostered together and something something shell immunity something something Luigi getting power-ups, or giving the Chrono Trigger guys some kind of passive when rostered together that prevents delays or other 'time manipulation' stuff. Paramater boosts, I feel, are best left to straight up buffs like "FF haste", "FF shell", "DQ Oomph", etc, or just limiting it to one parameter like 50% phys attack buff.

But just "yes I have Cloud and Rydia and Exdeath rostered" I am much less inclined to reward.
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/25/19 1:59:56 PM
#318:


Agree with that

People turn their brains off with parameter buffs

We want to be very careful with how they're handed out

One of the first builds we did for m5 had a synergy bonus when rostered with another character though, granting perfect team synergy and morale, so the idea is on our radar. Worry not.
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/26/19 7:07:31 AM
#319:


Crono's combo ability was one of the more fun abilities in the last game. Kind of hamstrung by Crono being so disrespected (getting to invent a double team move between Crono and Dante is all well and good, but it means you're rostering a dead slot in Crono), but what are you gonna do
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
ZeeksFire
03/26/19 11:03:31 AM
#320:


It didn't help that Crono was just very VERY average, being one self trained swordfighter with minor magical abilities where if i remember right, a huge chunk at 3-4 was a swordfighter with some sort of magic. You needed a fair amount to push yourself away from the pack, being a hero wasn't enough really to do so.
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/26/19 12:16:49 PM
#321:


He was barely considered to squeak a win over Tira. The disrespect went beyond other 3s being better
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/26/19 12:20:43 PM
#322:


We're keeping a version of that as an ability, IIRC. It was one of my favorite concepts too and much better in terms of balanceability than Epoch
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 12:23:33 PM
#323:


Tira should beat Crono in a 1v1

He's under respected as a 3 because he should be a 2
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/26/19 12:24:11 PM
#324:


Lopen posted...
Tira should beat Crono in a 1v1

He's under respected as a 3 because he should be a 2


You think? Who's a 3/week from CT then? Magus and Robo?
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 12:25:10 PM
#325:


Magus and that's it

Robo's hard to hurt but pretty unimpressive otherwise.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Mewtwo59
03/26/19 12:31:41 PM
#326:


DeathChicken posted...
Crono's combo ability was one of the more fun abilities in the last game. Kind of hamstrung by Crono being so disrespected (getting to invent a double team move between Crono and Dante is all well and good, but it means you're rostering a dead slot in Crono), but what are you gonna do


Yeah, I agree that that ability was fun but kinda useless. Like, what can Crono do to help make Dante better? It's only really useful with people on Crono's level.
---
""Love" is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope." HK-47
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy
03/26/19 12:35:36 PM
#327:


Lucca I think could be argued as a 3/week. Napalm Grenade spam and actual guns in addition to magic lets me see her at a glass cannon level that has a significantly better DPS than 2/weeks.
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
Gatarix
03/26/19 12:36:00 PM
#328:


ScareChan posted...
Something like a 10% boost I dont feel would be breaking, 1.5 may a bit much, sure, but 10% should be fair

I feel like a 10% boost gets straight up ignored

But 50% is an auto win unless there was a big power imbalance to begin with

Parameter boosts are tough
---
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 12:37:23 PM
#329:


Never use parameter boosts because no one (including me) really knows what they actually mean.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Gatarix
03/26/19 12:46:20 PM
#330:


though the fun part of parameter boosts is you have HGR trolling in the background "is size a parameter? what about weight? or intelligence? is he twice as tactical? twice as impulsive? are his fireballs twice as big?"
---
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/26/19 1:04:09 PM
#331:


As the owner of Lucca in M1, the arguments against her were annoying. "Well sure she has the highest magic stat in the game, but plotwise there's little reason to back that up so I'm going to ignore that"
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
Gatarix
03/26/19 1:08:38 PM
#332:


I respect statz

highest magic stat in the game = best mage. the end. (unless there's a separate stat for cast times. but either way, stats control unless they're EXPLICITLY contradicted by plot)
---
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}
... Copied to Clipboard!
Tirofog
03/26/19 1:09:33 PM
#333:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
We're keeping a version of that as an ability, IIRC. It was one of my favorite concepts too and much better in terms of balanceability than Epoch


I think Epoch would work if:
- You removed M1 as an option, added M4 and shifted everything down one.
- You add the restriction that you can't choose characters from boss battles, characters generated from other characters' abilities, and characters with less than 1 upkeep.

I think that gets rid of all the broken options? Most of the problematic stuff was from M1 anyway.
---
I'm just here to post something barely relevant, then fade back into the shadows. It's a tough job, but BKSheikah has to do it.
... Copied to Clipboard!
GANON1025
03/26/19 1:11:30 PM
#334:


Is morale a parameter?
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 1:16:47 PM
#335:


I'd actually give Lucca the second most respect behind Magus and well ahead of Crono (honestly I'd put Crono a bit below Frog too but yeah) but yeah I think I'm in the minority there. Her magic always seemed the most visually impressive, aside from Crono, but unlike Crono actually has the stats to back it up (magic typically = INT so I mean don't get the reason why people would deny her magic as being good).

Her gun is completely whatever though and would get less respect from me than most ranged weapons.

Anyway I wouldn't actually put Crono as a 2 since I think that introduces a bit of a mental bias against him among the players (and he really doesn't need that), but I would make his abilities good because yeah he's a pretty weak 3 all things considered. Game doesn't really give you any reason to believe he's all that aside from main character syndrome. His techs are not very impressive looking, he gets no real significant plot upgrade over the course of the game that the other characters don't get, and he's just some kid who fights with a mop before that. His claim to fame is he's the fastest among the cast but Ayla is his only real competition there in the sense that you could maybe buy they're fast.

Also Mercenaries 2 had a bunch of broken options too. 4 upkeep Sol Badguy no thanks. Limit it to Mercs 3 and Mercs 4 and it's probably fine but at that point you've perhaps removed most of the fun.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Tirofog
03/26/19 1:25:32 PM
#336:


Ah right - Sol was a case of (IIRC) someone who got massively buffed in later Guilty Gear games after M2. I can't really guarantee there aren't more Mercs like that lurking out there, so I guess it makes sense not to bring back Epoch.
---
I'm just here to post something barely relevant, then fade back into the shadows. It's a tough job, but BKSheikah has to do it.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 1:31:38 PM
#337:


Sol was always op as hell. It was the knowledge of the playerbase that got buffed more than anything. Also I think maybe in M2 there was some sort of "gameplay Sol" mentality that people rationalized disrespecting him (because otherwise at a 4/day he'd just win most fights). M2 was kinda weird in general because of the isolation of the gameplay from the casual votes-- not really a good gauge on respect in general. Lots of politics baked into perceived respect, much moreso than normal mercs.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
ScareChan
03/26/19 2:52:46 PM
#338:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Agree with that

People turn their brains off with parameter buffs

We want to be very careful with how they're handed out

One of the first builds we did for m5 had a synergy bonus when rostered with another character though, granting perfect team synergy and morale, so the idea is on our radar. Worry not.

If goal is not just team building but also balance I think counter productive boosts should work as well then

Example : if dante us rostered with another high teir merc his goal will be to be stylish and not listen to a high teir merc, instead isolating himself from the team. He will still look to win the battle and not actively attack his team

So in this case dante can still solo but now he has to fight on his own if you bring in another big gun. And if you dont bring in a big gun his backup may be weaker

Just example idea. I think the team building aspect is maybe more fun for a good amount if people than the battles themselves as seen by how many forfeits we get. So pros and cons to adding a member should be there in concept I feel. You shouldn't be able to just stock the best guy at every level and just win, a proper built team should always have a chance. I think this encourages that.
---
Lets Smash- Switch friend code SW-5264-0547-1806
PSN TehScurr
... Copied to Clipboard!
redrocket
03/26/19 6:20:15 PM
#339:


Lopen posted...
I'd actually give Lucca the second most respect behind Magus and well ahead of Crono (honestly I'd put Crono a bit below Frog too but yeah) but yeah I think I'm in the minority there. Her magic always seemed the most visually impressive, aside from Crono, but unlike Crono actually has the stats to back it up (magic typically = INT so I mean don't get the reason why people would deny her magic as being good).

Her gun is completely whatever though and would get less respect from me than most ranged weapons.

Anyway I wouldn't actually put Crono as a 2 since I think that introduces a bit of a mental bias against him among the players (and he really doesn't need that), but I would make his abilities good because yeah he's a pretty weak 3 all things considered. Game doesn't really give you any reason to believe he's all that aside from main character syndrome. His techs are not very impressive looking, he gets no real significant plot upgrade over the course of the game that the other characters don't get, and he's just some kid who fights with a mop before that. His claim to fame is he's the fastest among the cast but Ayla is his only real competition there in the sense that you could maybe buy they're fast.

Also Mercenaries 2 had a bunch of broken options too. 4 upkeep Sol Badguy no thanks. Limit it to Mercs 3 and Mercs 4 and it's probably fine but at that point you've perhaps removed most of the fun.


I mean you can say all this, but.... the party still beat Lavos in the end. Without any outside assistance. How do you reconcile that?
---
It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 6:32:33 PM
#340:


Okay but what did Lavos do to deserve italics exactly? Its claim to fame is basically run of the mill RPG final boss fare (final bosses that by and large get beaten by teams of 2 and 3 upkeep mercs) in terms of destructive power attached to a largely immobile enemy.
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/26/19 7:26:26 PM
#341:


He fries the surface of the planet with Destruction Rain. The same attack Crono later (haha, later. Earlier) gets hit by and shrugs off to do his heroic sacrifice bit
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 7:34:54 PM
#342:


The impressive thing about Lavos's destructorain thing is the AoE mostly. If you covered the entire globe with like Firaga you'd probably achieve a similar result. The in battle damage is pretty middling too
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy
03/26/19 7:50:40 PM
#343:


Most of Lavos' respect seems to come from his shell. Any time you beat up the squishy hermit crab inside, it's just a final boss. Beat on the outside like most people did/you can do against the spawns, and that rain hurts. Not to mention the potential debate of which time you fight Lavos is actually canon (i.e. weakened after the Black Omen goes down, crashing the Epoch into it, etc), potentially making the guy even weaker as "yes, he lost to 3 JRPG protagonists... after they attacked his weak spot after crashing into him at warp speeds with a spaceship/at, like, 60% power and hitting his weak spot exclusively".

Plus Spawns are still treated as a big deal at endgame and those can still take the party out, so I'm willing to say the big guy himself was more careful planning/crashing a spaceship into him than actually being strong enough to handle him 3v1 straight up.
---
... Copied to Clipboard!
Chaeix
03/26/19 8:13:20 PM
#344:


did someone say epoch
---
we're all buds~jc~
<DeathChicken> you are my hero for being the first person to cite National Geographic in Mercs
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/26/19 8:57:57 PM
#345:


Epoch is busted even with M3/4 stuff only

You get 4/week Haseo, Cole McGrath, Daniel Garner with his stupid as hell 32x damage and speed multipliers (Remember the time he soloed a whole team of 4s and 5s? I do), STILL 4/week Sol, and I forget what else

It's just not a balanceable ability unless you draw from M4 only, and at that point I'd rather give Crono something about Dual and then Triple Techs and his Heroic Sacrifice and call it a day. More iconic and less of a balance headache.

EDIT: Also yes, Sol was known to be busted even in M2. If you check the journal, it mentions how HGR was looking to cut a deal for the Illidan raidboss event that was basically 'if everyone but Drak and Twilight gives me a forfeit, I send Dragon Install Sol to clean house'. It's why I was always so miffed he didn't show up in M4, he's annoying to make a build for but he's a quintessential 'arguer's merc' that really rewards the players who take the time to research characters out.
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
DeathChicken
03/26/19 9:00:10 PM
#346:


Garner's unfortunate since that's a fun character, if he actually had a functional build
---
We are thought, and reality, and concept, and the unimaginable
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 9:02:50 PM
#347:


Honestly you could probably use Epoch with Tiro's restrictions with a further restriction that if the merc was released in multiple versions of the game you use the most recent upkeep value (including m5) for use of the ability
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
KanzarisKelshen
03/26/19 9:10:56 PM
#348:


That's probably workable

Really only leaves Sol and Bryan Fury as the notable 'gross' targets I think

The main thing is that Epoch isn't particularly cronoesque - you could hand it over to any CT character besides magus and it'd fit about as well. So I'm not super attached to it since it's one of those abilities that can be really warping (particularly because Crono HAS to be a day 1 merc, when reinforcements matter most) while also not being particularly fitting.
---
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Kamekguy
03/26/19 11:38:02 PM
#349:


I see we'll need to bust out the greatest time traveler for a reworked Epoch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5YLoCRlms" data-time="

---
... Copied to Clipboard!
Lopen
03/26/19 11:40:02 PM
#350:


I was gonna say Gaspar pure support to house it but Putt Putt is better
---
No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
... Copied to Clipboard!
ZeeksFire
03/28/19 4:45:13 AM
#351:


I could see crono having heroic sacrifice (AND) a secondary one that lets him come in a few minutes late to the battle if said heroic sacrifice is done (only in mid/high). They had to find a replacement doll and swap it after all.
... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List
Page List: 1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10