Board 8 > Mercenaries 5 Preseason Topic 2: That's The Name Of The Game

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KanzarisKelshen
01/28/19 10:02:40 PM
#151:


The dream there is to give Sonic enough that he can do (since he has a billion games to draw from) that even if he's mediocre in a given situation, you don't feel like an empty slot would've been better than him due to biases making people go 'lol sonic' and voting the other way. It's definitely not easy though, and we're still thinking about potential more elegant solutions than 'he gets a bunch of random stuff from his games to give him versatility'. I think Super Sonic was an experiment in trying to see if there was a way to stabilize Sonic's respect, but Super Sonic is so strong that the pendulum swings the other way and a lot of people will kneejerk vote for him even against excellent high tier teams.

EDIT: This reminds me that we never got to see Shadow in a match. I feel he needs to be tested at some point because some people thought 'sonic with gunz' was a solid 5 but it always felt like a stretch to me.
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Mewtwo59
01/28/19 10:45:39 PM
#152:


I thought the whole thing was nobody thought 'Sonic with gunz' was a 5 and that's why Shadow stayed unbought even after he was demoted to a 4.
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KanzarisKelshen
01/28/19 11:01:14 PM
#153:


Mewtwo59 posted...
I thought the whole thing was nobody thought 'Sonic with gunz' was a 5 and that's why Shadow stayed unbought even after he was demoted to a 4.


I know at least two people (not me) thought so, but yes, Shadow felt overupkeeped to me as well. I'm honestly not sure where he's supposed to go all told.
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Drakeryn
01/28/19 11:02:37 PM
#154:


also his abilities sucked

it was pure combat abilities on someone dubious to begin with
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GANON1025
01/28/19 11:10:13 PM
#155:


I Shadow's abilities were good I probably would have bought him. I even WANTED to
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DeathChicken
01/29/19 7:45:39 PM
#156:


Hey, pure combat ability on someone dubious worked for Juliet
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DeathChicken
01/30/19 4:05:47 AM
#157:


I wonder if Hannah from Until Dawn would be a viable merc. Fast as hell, damn near bulletproof, unless you have a source of fire, which just makes her not bulletproof...
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DeathChicken
01/30/19 12:39:06 PM
#158:


Matter of fact the above versus Sonic would be kind of interesting. Sonic would die if he got hit, but that's an if. Also think Sonic might have a hard time doing damage, you need something at least stronger than a shotgun to work
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Tom Bombadil
01/31/19 2:20:31 PM
#159:


hmm
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DeathChicken
01/31/19 3:48:43 PM
#160:


Of course the above also runs into the Monika problem of being a massive story spoiler by virtue of existing
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Lopen
01/31/19 3:50:43 PM
#161:


On the one hand I agree with the idea that battle mercs spoiling games should be avoided.

On the other hand Until Dawn is the right combination of niche and old that I don't think you're actually spoiling anyone who is likely to play it.
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KanzarisKelshen
01/31/19 4:02:48 PM
#162:


What would a writeup for her be like? I haven't played Until Dawn yet so I wouldn't be able to build a really good one
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DeathChicken
01/31/19 4:08:36 PM
#163:


You should, it's not a long game and usually cheap (free on PS Now)

Writeup could probably be a simple "As appears in Until Dawn, can't switch bodies on death"
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MajinZidane
01/31/19 10:56:07 PM
#164:


hmm
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Kamekguy
02/01/19 5:53:56 PM
#165:


Honestly you could just name it "The Wendigo" and classify it as female. It's not like the character has any abilities that would be specific to them as opposed to the game itself/the species.
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DeathChicken
02/01/19 6:25:44 PM
#166:


I thought of that, except there are other non-Hannah wendigos in the game. They're all much weaker (notably Hannah beheads one)
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KanzarisKelshen
02/02/19 6:50:19 PM
#167:


On that horror game note, this reminds me - now that RE2make is out, who do you guys think would be a better rep for the series, Nemesis or Mr. X? With Jill and Chris probably getting folded into a S. T. A. R. S. model, there's probably some room for another villain, and those two would fill a sorely lacking niche of low tier tank. We don't really need both though, so I'd like to hear opinions from people who've managed to play the remake (and know RE3 well enough) on which one might get more respect.
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DeathChicken
02/02/19 7:16:47 PM
#168:


Haven't gotten to play RE2 (beyond the demo) but my Nemmy respect is real high. Guy is absurd to kill, is shockingly fast, has a rocket launcher...has shown he's not above T-Virusing people and then waiting them out...
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Tom Bombadil
02/03/19 11:04:00 PM
#169:


up
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 4:50:24 PM
#170:


OK, so I kinda wanna test two different mercs. Gonna be putting up some matches this week...this is what I have in mind:

Nemesis T-Type is as he appears in Resident Evil 3: Nemesis, armed with his rocket launcher and with full access to his Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 moveset. Upon being killed, he will immediately advance to his next boss form until he reaches his final form, at which point he will finally die for real.

~VS:~

Tidus is as he appears in Final Fantasy X, with the entirety of his normal sphere grid maxed out and access to all his overdrives. He also has access to his moves from the Dissidia series (including Dissidia NT), though the brave/HP mechanics do not apply. He has his Caladbolg and best non-broken armor.

Terrain: Fuyuki Bridge - A long bridge connecting Shinto and Miyama City. All areas of the bridge, and the river below, are accessible, though the surroundings of the bridge have a powerful bounded field in place, preventing escape. Attackers will start on the Miyama end, with defenders starting by the Shinto exit.

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(Note: I need a specific armor for Tidus, someone who recently replayed FFX help out?)

And for the second match...

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Mega Man is as seen in Mega Man Series. He has access to his Mega Buster, his Magnet Beam, all of his weapons from the mainline Mega Man series (1-10) aside from the Time Stopper, Flash Stopper, Gravity Hold, Centaur Flash and Astro Crush and his moveset from Marvel vs Capcom 2, but may only use his hypers if he has enough meter and the necessary robots are present.

~VS.~

Shirou Emiya is as he appears in Fate/Stay Night, at the end of the Unlimited Blade Works route. His contract to Rin Tohsaka is active, granting him full access to her mana reserves, and he has access to his rapid self-healing from his contract with Saber. Unlimited Blade Works is active, but will not override the terrain except to manifest swords. He may trace Kansho and Bakuya, as well as all the weapons of both teams as best as he is able.

-OR-

Shirou Emiya is as he appears in Fate/Stay Night during the Heaven's Feel route. He has access to Archer's arm and all the abilities it grants him, but is not yet affected by it and is at peak condition. He may trace all weapons of both teams as best as he is able, as well as Kansho and Bakuya and Berserker's rock sword (which grants him access to Nine Lives).

Terrain: Luxerion, the Divine City of Light - A gothic metropolis home to the Order, that chooses to greet the end of the world with peaceful reflection and prayer. There are no residents present and access to other areas of Nova Chrysalia is forbidden. Defenders will start at the cathedral where the portal leading to Bhunivelze's sanctum can be found (though it is inactive), and attackers will start at the city's train station.

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What do you guys think about these matchups? They seem fair and reasonably arguable for both sides?

(and before anyone asks, those Shirou models are experimental. Basically we want to see if he can get even a bit of respect if given his powerups before we bin him entirely, as part of an effort to clean up all VN characters and make them less annoying to argue and dumb. If you feel one of the two versions is generally better and has more of a chance of winning, please say so so we can get an interesting, arguable match.)
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Alany
02/04/19 4:53:31 PM
#171:


Off of a quick look, I'm easily going to go and pick Shirou in both cases and Nemesis. The resurrection for Nemesis and the drawn out nature of the fight doesn't play to Tidus' strengths in my opinion.
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Gatarix
02/04/19 4:54:27 PM
#172:


shirou is so swingy

imo bin him, there are much cooler AND better-respected AND consistently respected reps
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 4:57:02 PM
#173:


Alany posted...
Off of a quick look, I'm easily going to go and pick Shirou in both cases and Nemesis. The resurrection for Nemesis and the drawn out nature of the fight doesn't play to Tidus' strengths in my opinion.


Wouldn't his massive speed advantage give Tidus a large edge vs Nemmy? Or do you feel like it doesn't matter because Nemesis is so tanky he'll run out Tidus' MP and then murder him?

shirou is so swingy

imo bin him, there are much cooler AND better-respected AND consistently respected reps


This is definitely being considered for the record, depending on how this test goes

If he turns out to be too polarizing even with actually good combat we'll probably can him, it's just thorough to test if he can actually do well when he isn't basically Fate shirou but even worse
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Gatarix
02/04/19 4:58:34 PM
#174:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Wouldn't his massive speed advantage give Tidus a large edge vs Nemmy?

This is my gut although I don't know Nemesis well.
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Tom Bombadil
02/04/19 5:08:51 PM
#175:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Terrain: Fuyuki Bridge


booo

Leaning both versions of Emiya. I can actually participate in that one!
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Alany
02/04/19 5:14:02 PM
#176:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Wouldn't his massive speed advantage give Tidus a large edge vs Nemmy?

It feels like a single real mistake against Nemesis would result in him getting screwed, especially with his MvC moveset. Along with this, it's really hard to dodge rocket launchers.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 5:14:06 PM
#177:


Look I wanted to say waterball but it would have been a squash match

lets save those for the actual game so we can have some nice narratives ok
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DeathChicken
02/04/19 5:23:14 PM
#178:


I feel like somewhere in here Nemmy will get a tentacle in (ew), T-Virus and then Tidus won't finish him before he zombiefies
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 5:24:40 PM
#179:


Aight, sounds like there's decent debate there, I'm glad

Always felt like Nemesis could be a primo 3/week and this match should give us some nice information on how he does that I can compare to Mr. X once I've played RE2make
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DeathChicken
02/04/19 5:38:05 PM
#180:


I'm also assuming Nemmy's last form must actually be beaten, it doesn't just drop dead when he reaches Vagina Monster (wording is slightly ambiguous)
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 5:58:17 PM
#181:


DeathChicken posted...
I'm also assuming Nemmy's last form must actually be beaten, it doesn't just drop dead when he reaches Vagina Monster (wording is slightly ambiguous)


Yes, this will be added to the finalized writeup, it's not on a timer. You have to actually close or he'll just chomp you eventually.
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Gatarix
02/04/19 6:06:56 PM
#182:


Depends on why he dies in-game. If the timer is "this is how long he can survive in this unstable mutated form" it should translate to mercs (although Tidus wouldn't know that, and could still die against that form because he doesn't realize he can stall it out). If it's like "this is how long the fight lasts until he gets hit by a bus" then obviously it doesn't translate.
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DeathChicken
02/04/19 6:09:23 PM
#183:


He dies by being shot with a railgun and then a magnum
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Gatarix
02/04/19 7:22:02 PM
#184:


oh okay
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KanzarisKelshen
02/04/19 9:46:33 PM
#185:


Gentlemen, we have a match: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77454620

Enjoy!
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KanzarisKelshen
02/05/19 8:17:40 PM
#186:


Will be putting up the MM/Shirou topic tonight, probably, once Nemesis/Tidus is over. Very impressed with the big boy's respect, did not expect him to win nearly so cleanly. For the next match, we'll go with UBW Shirou, since that one has less overlap with Archer.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/05/19 9:50:59 PM
#187:


Nemesis wins! I'll post the tally later. For now, the second match I talked about is up:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77457645

Have at it!
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ZeeksFire
02/06/19 4:21:20 PM
#188:


You know, I feel Tidus could have had a chance if 1. the map was more of a mess than just a big bridge, and 2. got the drop on Nemesis with magic. Between slow/haste/cheer, the ability to delay the enemies attacks, and the fact that Tidus is just faster, I think Tidus could have locked Nemesis to the floor in melee to the point that he couldn't do anything.
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DeathChicken
02/06/19 4:24:27 PM
#189:


I feel like Nemesis actually got undersold on his speed. Like, he's no Tidus, but during RE3 he's consistently faster than Jill on foot. Trying to run away from him without fighting means he'll just charge you down and beat you over the head.
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ZeeksFire
02/06/19 8:31:17 PM
#190:


Yeah, was considering a comparative thing mainly DeathChicken, although I think Tidus has a chance given a better location, and thankfully Nemesis is good, but not amazing with the rocket launcher (and limited ammo). In watching the videos I did think of something amusing though, just because of how he just shows up EVERYWHERE.

Give him an ability that he thinks random/selected target on a team is a member of STARS, and will hunt them down in the week, whether it is in the main fight, or any side topics that show up. And he always knows where the merc is that week ignoring any stealth/cloaking/etc.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/06/19 9:31:47 PM
#191:


Surprisingly, looks like Shirou with UBW might actually be a character who is releasable without being a total embarrassment. Who'd have thought?

(Megaman proving that he's a big boy 5/week tho, stomping him into the dirt completely. Atta boy Rock)
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Johnbobb
02/06/19 9:34:03 PM
#192:


So playing through KH3, and I can only imagine Sora's respect going up considerably. Possibly bordering on 6 territory
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KanzarisKelshen
02/06/19 9:39:45 PM
#193:


Johnbobb posted...
So playing through KH3, and I can only imagine Sora's respect going up considerably. Possibly bordering on 6 territory


He was already borderline 6 in practice if everyone's vote patterns stay the same

If he gets notably stronger I think he might be a straight 6/week period

(also, that build I made where he gets to summon friends just got a whole lot more ridiculous if some of the spoilers I hear are true.)
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KanzarisKelshen
02/07/19 10:50:05 PM
#194:


Feeling a hankerin' for a new match. Not tonight, but what do you guys think about giving this dude a long overdue first outing tomorrow?

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Raiden is as he appears in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, with access to all of his weapons (save the Fox Blade), upgrades and non-recovery items available in that game. He has access to a maxed out energy gauge for Blade Mode and Ripper Mode.

~VS~

The Demi-Fiend is as he appears in Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne, Shin Megami Tensei 4: Apocalypse, and Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga, with all of the skills displayed in those games and all relevant immunities, save immunity to physical damage, as well as the skills Pierce, Focus and Fire Boost. Gaea Rage will reduce defenses as in SMT4A, but may not necessarily inflict OHKO damage on all opponents. He may not summon any demons.

Terrain: The Void - A barren featureless landscape with no cover or anything to speak of. There is no obvious source of light, but visibility is clear and the terrain otherwise has similar gravity, atmosphere, etc to Earth. Teams start 100m from each other.
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DeathChicken
02/07/19 10:57:00 PM
#195:


Does Demi-Fiend get his demon summons?
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KanzarisKelshen
02/07/19 11:00:00 PM
#196:


DeathChicken posted...
Does Demi-Fiend get his demon summons?


No (edited in for clarity) unless y'all think he gets super bodied without them, in which case he gets his main gal and canon demon, Super Pixie. With how he's basically the damage dealer of the Messiahs of the Diamond Realm in SMT4A's DLC, I don't think he really needs Daisoujou, Matador and all the others.
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Mewtwo59
02/07/19 11:17:33 PM
#197:


I don't know, after that match I'm a little worried Shirou is going to be killed by the "lol so dumb" thing like Travis was.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/07/19 11:32:58 PM
#198:


Mewtwo59 posted...
I don't know, after that match I'm a little worried Shirou is going to be killed by the "lol so dumb" thing like Travis was.


It's something his leader will have to argue against if he returns (which is up in the air, but at least he has a chance now that we know his battle worth can actually exist). I think there's backing to say he won't go full dumb (like the fight with Lancer in the prologue, several excerpts of him thinking tactically, etc.) but it's gonna be 100% a sell job to make sure he doesn't end up nerfed by voter biases.
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KanzarisKelshen
02/08/19 9:26:22 PM
#199:


Match is up, as promised: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77466506

I wonder how Demifiend will perform? Let's go!
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Tom Bombadil
02/10/19 1:24:48 AM
#200:


hmm
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