Board 8 > Mercenaries 5 Preseason Topic 2: That's The Name Of The Game

(+) Yeah! (+)

composite merc with all the assassins! pick which assassin to use as a peacetime ability! they all have different abilities! as an upgrade ability, all the assassins can join at once!!

don't actually do this

also I like the idea of tagging stuff like "harmful effects"
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Also bring back Demyx, goddamn you
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I think Ezio, Bayek and Kassandra could all be in mercs and have pretty different abilities.
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Gatarix posted...

composite merc with all the assassins

dibs on kojirou
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oh Mash might make a fun merc actually
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Kamekguy posted...

If a character was as they appeared in Super Smash Bros, they are no longer that. This does not include Master Hand, as otherwise he would be from a real-life glove box.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs" data-time="

Excellent change.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

oh Mash might make a fun merc actually

She's actually on the list of ideas!
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good!
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In case anyone had any doubts, David Dunn is a very solid 3/week for filmmercs I think
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I'm surprised we do not have a John Wick build
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DeathChicken posted...

I'm surprised we do not have a John Wick build

Too powerful for mercs to contain if his dog is killed
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thats what you need to do. Utility mercs for movie mercs

Keanu Reeves

1 a week Bill and Ted

5 a week John Wick
6 a week Neo
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oh that's a cool idea

if I knew actors better this is where I'd come up with way too many other ones in that mold
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Workin on a new match

Stay tuned for details!
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Kratos Aurion is as he appears in Tales of Symphonia. He has all of his EX Skills, and has access to all of his techniques including Judgment and Shining Bind.

~VS~

Dr. Eggman is as he appears in Sonic Unleashed, piloting the Egg Dragoon. It has access to all abilities shown in Sonic Generations, other than changing gravity. When the Egg Dragoon is defeated, Dr. Eggman is considered defeated as well.

Terrain: San Romero High School - A typical all-American high school as featured in Lollipop Chainsaw. All areas within the school grounds including classrooms, pool and stadium are accessible. Attackers start at the school's entrance, and defenders start at the school's stadium.

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Debuting a newish merc with a gimmick we're sort of indirectly testing here. How's this matchup look?
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A high school seems like a bad terrain for the Egg Dragoon. The stadium is pretty much the only place it'll fit.
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I feel like that's a stomp for Eggman if he's smart enough to catch Kratos in the school hallways where he can pretty much run over him. But when does Eggman ever choose favorable battle locations?
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Mewtwo59 posted...

A high school seems like a bad terrain for the Egg Dragoon. The stadium is pretty much the only place it'll fit.

School grounds are included tbf, so it's more like Kratos can have cover but Eggman isn't TOO BIG'd out. Seems like the match is looking at least a bit debatable though, which is nice! I was totally expecting 'lol kratos SOLOS' because you never know with sonic chars
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he does solo though
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I'd say it might be on the other foot, remember, we are talking about something Sonic fighting the Egg Dragoon, versus Kratos Aurion fighting the dragoon. It's a weird situation, but I'd feel the egg dragoon has the advantage in speed, range, and mobility, and well, that's all it needs. Kratos runs out of resources way before the Egg Dragoon falls.

hmm
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ZeeksFire posted...

I'd say it might be on the other foot, remember, we are talking about something Sonic fighting the Egg Dragoon, versus Kratos Aurion fighting the dragoon. It's a weird situation, but I'd feel the egg dragoon has the advantage in speed, range, and mobility, and well, that's all it needs. Kratos runs out of resources way before the Egg Dragoon falls.

Interesting take. Would need to refresh on what both do, but I wonder why sonic heroes themselves get this train of thought but sonic villain does
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On that note, puttin the match up tonight in a few hours

Get psyched!
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all this talk about Kratos Aurion reminds me

we need to update the real Kratos to account for GOW2018
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77419474

It's up

let's gooooooo
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I had a stupid idea when coming home from work

Mark Watney (The Martian)
Heroic Male Human (Pure Support)
2/week

Do the Math. Solve the Problem (Pre-Battle) - As Mark Watney learned the hard way, everything will go south on you. Every three weeks he may shove a preselected enemy Merc into his own personal worst case scenario; they will be magically trapped on Mars under similar circumstances as he was. A side topic will be held asking if the selected merc can survive for 90 days on the surface of Mars, supplied with nothing but a functioning oxygenator, a water reclaimer, some seeds and a small supply of potatoes. Should the merc accrue more No votes for survival than Yes votes after seven hours, they will be KOed. Fuck you Mars.
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I think it needs to give at least a suit or some way not to freeze.

im ready for mercenaries 5
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hopefully m5 will be on discord, so i can complain to lopen on my phone
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greengravy294 posted...

hopefully m5 will be on discord, so i can complain to lopen on my phone

but of course

because there is nothing an admin wants more than to be harassed by angry players 24/7 over the phone
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You could do that in M4 if you got an IRC app for your phone!
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it has been a while since boko and I called each other :(
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Some ideas i saw from optional bosses in epic battle fantasy 5, not sure on costs to balance or the like but i do like the idea of being able to

Pre/Start: All limit breaks/signature skill offensive ability (if no limit breaks) are forbidden
Pre/Start: All transformations/summons are forbidden
Pre/start: All stat modifying buffs used after this ability are negative up to a maximum of -80% stat reduction. Neither team realizes this.
Start: All characters that can have revival spells are active, revive at 1hp, all non-item based magic healing is negated. Both teams know of the revival, not of the negated healing magic.

The idea of having abilities that completely changes the field of battle intrigues me, forcing different potential arguments. Like how much does Dante lose if he can't devil trigger? Or a fight where no limit break styled overkill moves are available. Or how tactical can a team be if people can be hit by life and the like, but a single shot will knock them down again, and how long it would take to reorganize a team's actions, how long do they have?

Ideally, when I have time, I'd just build these into making ebf5 characters, as a Peacetime character replacement/upkeep increase for the week, and passive when rostered. Possibly including the final fight where you fight a cat known as god, but I haven't fought that fight yet.

Eggman beats Kratos 6-3, making him probably the only vaguely respected Sonic character ever
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The main issue with that is it being too broad and leading to semantics arguments. For instance, "signature skill offensive ability" - would that be 'spin dash' for Sonic? If so, you're gonna get arguments of Sonic not being able to roll up into a ball. Or otherwise people will argue that it's Homing Attack, or the boost gauge. Now, that could be absolutely fine - an admin could step in and say it's this specifically - but then that would be needed for every character, and shenanigans would be called if that wasn't defined pre-match, so this leads to having to define "signature skill offensive ability" for every model. And even then, what's Quiet's signature offensive ability? Actually shooting her gun?

Universal abilities are dangerously powerful as whichever team activates it normally has an inherent advantage over the other. I'd say our current most exemplary example is Ryu's Martial Law, which gets a pass due to an insane recharge. It used to be a universal ability that applied to everyone in the fight... which normally hugely favored Ryu's team as composition could be built around it. Same thing with stuff like "replace the match with Xtreme Beach Volleyball". I'm more fine with the idea of abilities like "replace the match with AMERICAN FOOTBALL" or "replace the match with capture the flag", as those have an actual basis in combat and the shifting of objectives actually comes at a cost in the proposed AP system instead of being able to combo a select few abilities into it to ensure a win (i.e. "the opposing team has Senator Armstrong. Let's put him in a wheelchair so he can't football, phew glad we dodged that bullet." ), but it's something that needs to be taken with trepidation, and fits better as a challenge to be given out by event matches.

also if we did it it'd totally be Judgemaster Cid.
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DeathChicken posted...

Eggman beats Kratos 6-3, making him probably the only vaguely respected Sonic character ever

Not really it just means off-season voters are higher concentration of Sonic respect. Bet Sonic could pull some wins with this group too
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Lopen posted...

DeathChicken posted...

Eggman beats Kratos 6-3, making him probably the only vaguely respected Sonic character ever

Not really it just means off-season voters are higher concentration of Sonic respect. Bet Sonic could pull some wins with this group too

Give me a new character you think is sonic tier I must see this miracle for myself
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We've always been denied Mario vs Sonic in the Character Battles how about some Mario vs Sonic Mercs style?
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redrocket posted...

We've always been denied Mario vs Sonic in the Character Battles how about some Mario vs Sonic Mercs style?

I feel Sonic would destroy but we DID have a Mario build we were working on, IIRC...what do you guys think?
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Not even remotely interesting

Unless we get giant dreamy mario UGH
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what if he has his mop that erased Wendy's Castle in Super Mario World
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From what I have seen from Sonic's feats based around Mercs, is there even anything Mario could do to beat Sonic?
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

From what I have seen from Sonic's feats based around Mercs, is there even anything Mario could do to beat Sonic?

somehow hit him with the Cappy possession????
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Mario turns Tanooki statue, Sonic runs into him and dies. "Mercs"
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Hey, Sonic put in some work during Draft Mercs. More than I ever would have expected out of him!
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Mario is one of the few characters that even I would take Sonic over.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

From what I have seen from Sonic's feats based around Mercs, is there even anything Mario could do to beat Sonic?

somehow hit him with the Cappy possession????

Even then he'd need a pit of water to drop Sonic in, because if Sonic dies during the possession, so does Mario.
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mario uses the fludd to make the terrain slippery gg
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Some general thoughts on Sonic: IMO Sonic is tough to place (in terms of respect) because he's inherently swingy, much more so than most characters. He's got what I'll call "weapon triangle" issues and also terrain issues.

Weapon issues:
- Sonic is amazing against gunners. I would take Sonic over a literal army of GTA dudes with guns; they'll never hit him.
- Sonic is okay against blunt melee (e.g. SF Ryu). Because of his raw speed he hits a lot harder than most opponents. But he's also less durable than most opponents without rings (which he basically never gets in Mercs).
- Sonic is terrible against edged weapon melee such as swords. You just hold out your sword and Sonic is either going to impale himself on it, or dodge (at which point you just turn to face him with your sword again). That's how it is when your signature attack is hurling your whole body into the enemy. Like, I would probably take Lloyd > Sonic 1v1, even though the army of GTA gunners >> Lloyd.

So he's really situational. Against the right enemies he performs like a legit 6. Against his counters (which are many) he struggles to break 3.

Then there's terrain: Sonic wants space to make his speed matter. A big field, a big bridge. He really doesn't want small spaces where he has to make a lot of turns and he's susceptible to being nailed by AoE. He also really doesn't want arenas susceptible to ring-out (Bubbly Clouds).

So it's just weird to price a guy who can solo certain teams of 3-4/days but is close to dead weight in the wrong situation. I don't know if you can fix it without fundamentally changing his combat. I get that's the point of loading him with niche powers/items from different games, but then he feels less like Sonic and more like an awkward Mercs construct.
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Drakeryn posted...

Sonic is terrible against edged weapon melee such as swords

Drakeryn posted...

Then there's terrain: Sonic wants space to make his speed matter. A big field, a big bridge. He really doesn't want small spaces where he has to make a lot of turns and he's susceptible to being nailed by AoE

[m1 Axel joke goes here]
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