Board 8 > Mercenaries 5 Preseason Topic 2: That's The Name Of The Game

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ZeeksFire
01/08/19 1:32:45 PM
#51:


Well, there usually isn't too much about location in general, but the size of the location usually means a lot. The smallest of locations usually favor big hard hitters, and most casters/gunners eat a knuckle sandwich. Waterball was goofy but reasonable, Bubbly clouds should be shot and replaced with whispy woods, and some stages were also just too big (see Shakuras).
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Gatarix
01/08/19 1:53:27 PM
#52:


Terrain tends to favor Kain, who can function well at close quarters (heavily armored melee) or in a more range-y terrain (because he can jump to attack, then jump back to a safer range at will). Whereas the double dragons really need close quarters to attack. Even in something like "a generic big field" I think Kain has the edge because the dragons' movement is so slow that Kain can just hit-and-run the whole time.

The only time Kain is disadvantaged is if the terrain is so small/confined that he can't properly wield his spear or use jump attacks.

(Also ftr I ignored the gimmick armor because phys immunity is just silly)
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Kamekguy
01/08/19 2:56:08 PM
#53:


I've always earnestly been of the belief that a good terrain is worth more than two or three decent battle mercs. You can pull off absolute bullshit unless you're not entirely outclassed. And even when you are, you can run around kiting Dragon Ryu against the absolute weakest of turrets and people will still buy it a little.
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KanzarisKelshen
01/08/19 11:57:22 PM
#54:


Kamekguy posted...
I've always earnestly been of the belief that a good terrain is worth more than two or three decent battle mercs. You can pull off absolute bullshit unless you're not entirely outclassed. And even when you are, you can run around kiting Dragon Ryu against the absolute weakest of turrets and people will still buy it a little.


by which he means 'match goes into overtime or damn close to it with a trillion votes'

terrain's good y'all
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Tirofog
01/09/19 1:13:57 AM
#55:


i made a wreck-it ralph build

Wreck-it Ralph (Wreck-it Ralph
Heroic/Villainous Male Human/Robot
Upkeep: 3/Week
Min Bid: X GP

Wreck-it Ralph is as seen in the Wreck-it Ralph movies. For the purposes of this battle, he is able to exist outside of his game/the internet and is the size that he would be relative to the other humans in the match (~9 feet tall).

I'm Bad... And That's Good (Passive/Peacetime) - Every week in Peacetime, Ralph may choose whether he is considered Heroic or Villainous in this week's battle. This cannot be overwritten by any other Alignment altering abilities. If an alignment isn't chosen, this defaults to the last option chosen (or Villainous, if one hasn't been chosen yet).

I'm Gonna Wreck It! (Pre-Battle) - Once every three weeks, Ralph may wreck one preselected allied or enemy terrain. All structures in the selected terrain other than the outer border (if it exists - like the hull of a spaceship) will be reduced to a pile of rubble made of the same materials.

If this terrain isn't chosen for this week's battle, this ability goes on a one week cooldown.


UPGRADES:

(Ability Upgrade; XX EXP)

For an extra week of cooldown, Ralph can wreck the terrain bad enough to prevent it from being chosen this week. (The ability goes on full cooldown if this option is chosen.)

(New Pre-Battle; XX EXP)

Hero Medal (Pre-Battle) - Once every three weeks, Ralph may give one ally his Hero Medal, giving them a copy of his I'm Bad... And That's Good Passive.

Only one Merc on a team at a time (besides Ralph) can have a Hero Medal.


(New Start of Battle; XX EXP)

Break The Internet (Start of Battle) - Once every four weeks, Ralph's leader may send him into the Internet (as seen in Ralph Breaks the Internet) with one specific objective (buy a rocket launcher on eBay, find out whatever information you can on X enemy, etc.). Ralph will have 24 hours in the Internet to accomplish this objective, after which he will be transported to his starting location in this week's battle as the match is starting.

==============

Terrain: Fix-it Felix - The Fix-it Felix game, as seen in the Wreck-it Ralph movies. All fighters can exist in this terrain at the same approximate size as they would be as a game character in this universe (so humans would be the size that human game characters are shown in the movies). Access to any other arcade games or the outside world is prohibited.
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ScareChan
01/09/19 1:26:54 AM
#56:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
Kamekguy posted...
I've always earnestly been of the belief that a good terrain is worth more than two or three decent battle mercs. You can pull off absolute bullshit unless you're not entirely outclassed. And even when you are, you can run around kiting Dragon Ryu against the absolute weakest of turrets and people will still buy it a little.


by which he means 'match goes into overtime or damn close to it with a trillion votes'

terrain's good y'all


I feel terrain got me a handful of votes with my crazy game plans. Like they were blowouts but should be shut outs. I think my only contested match that terrain mattered was me vs alany elims
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Johnbobb
01/09/19 1:33:00 AM
#57:


Tirofog posted...
Break The Internet (Start of Battle) - Once every four weeks, Ralph's leader may send him into the Internet (as seen in Ralph Breaks the Internet) with one specific objective (buy a rocket launcher on eBay, find out whatever information you can on X enemy, etc.). Ralph will have 24 hours in the Internet to accomplish this objective, after which he will be transported to his starting location in this week's battle as the match is starting.

"Blackmail the opposing player"
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DeathChicken
01/09/19 2:16:49 AM
#58:


Kamekguy posted...
I've always earnestly been of the belief that a good terrain is worth more than two or three decent battle mercs. You can pull off absolute bullshit unless you're not entirely outclassed. And even when you are, you can run around kiting Dragon Ryu against the absolute weakest of turrets and people will still buy it a little.

Insert comment about Dark Samus in a pool of Phazon here
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 3:41:43 AM
#59:


I feel like I've discussed this before, but something we wanna do for M5 in general is make terrain more meaningful - and this starts with giving actual consideration to whether we wanna remove the native fauna (read: enemies) from a terrain. I don't know if you guys have ever thought about it, but our old reliable standby of 'and no enemies or NPCs are present' is a humongous nerf to stealth characters, which is why their respect is so swingy. It's hard as fuck to stealth around when every level is deader than the graveyard's tenants! By contrast, with a big crowd of noisy people milling about, characters like Ezio, Snake and others start performing at their 'proper' level instead of getting nerfed because we keep asking for stand-up fights. It also gives more of a chance for personality arguments to matter - 'kefka is batshit insane and will hurt anyone' becomes relevant if there's a couple hundred guards with machineguns in a given terrain and the other team is being led by a charismatic goody two-shoes who can talk them into joining up with the team. We probably won't do this for every terrain, but it's something we're giving actual consideration to to mix up a few matches. Thoughts, everyone?
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ScareChan
01/09/19 3:54:52 AM
#60:


If you do that you would need to have at least one ability be about a team being mindful and causing the least collateral damage

Literally civil war
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 4:11:01 AM
#61:


ScareChan posted...
If you do that you would need to have at least one ability be about a team being mindful and causing the least collateral damage

Literally civil war


If we find the merc for it that wouldn't be a terrible idea
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Tom Bombadil
01/09/19 7:59:34 AM
#62:


I always thought that "NPC's are NOT removed from the terrain" would be a fun abil, but it could maybe work as a default, too

Probably need some kinda rule in place to handle situations where the NPCs have a shot at wiping out the teams.
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IfGodCouldDie
01/09/19 8:41:34 AM
#63:


Tom Bombadil posted...
I always thought that "NPC's are NOT removed from the terrain" would be a fun abil, but it could maybe work as a default, too

Probably need some kinda rule in place to handle situations where the NPCs have a shot at wiping out the teams.

If the NPCs are able to wipe out both teams it should count as a loss of both teams.
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Dantezoid
01/09/19 10:53:41 AM
#64:


I still think lanky could kite his way to victory, even playing his trombone annoyingly Everytime he got far enough ahead
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Gatarix
01/09/19 11:38:53 AM
#65:


yeahhh genius city

Nikolai > Anjori never forget

Kamekguy posted...
I've always earnestly been of the belief that a good terrain is worth more than two or three decent battle mercs. You can pull off absolute bullshit unless you're not entirely outclassed. And even when you are, you can run around kiting Dragon Ryu against the absolute weakest of turrets and people will still buy it a little.

Don't get me wrong, I love absolute bullshit terrain arguments. But I don't usually vote for them. Terrain can swing a moderate power difference if there's a big stylistic difference between the teams (melee vs. range especially) but it's rarely THAT big a factor, unless it's waterball.
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 11:41:43 AM
#66:


"F-f-foreigners!"

I still remember those arguments, that was some good stuff
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Dantezoid
01/09/19 11:42:46 AM
#67:


I love adding more NPCs and terrain hazards btw!

But note that if you hate people seemingly ignoring battle power if mercs teams for what you feel are tangents, they open the door to a lot of arguments like that!

Which I think is a good thing but I know many will disagree with me
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Dantezoid
01/09/19 11:43:51 AM
#68:


Also I demand kuja regain the ability to mind control all NPCs
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DeathChicken
01/09/19 12:00:44 PM
#69:


Besaid Island with no one there but the crazy old woman was a great idea
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 12:04:03 PM
#70:


Define tangents? I don't think we terribly mind people arguing teams, like, use stage hazards in their favor. The stuff we do kinda mind are Cow votes that feel like a protest of the game, mostly. It's fine to joke vote for a bit but keeping those votes parked on a joke ends up making both merc leaders feel bad.
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Dantezoid
01/09/19 1:02:46 PM
#71:


I don't mean from an admin view, I mean from a leaders perspective. Stuff gets brought up all the time that becomes focal points of matches (like zidane grabbing Shepard's ass) and introducing more variables will make this happen more

I love it, I think it varies fights more. Just expect to have stuff like that more!
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 1:20:20 PM
#72:


Oh yeah, that's fine I think. Part of the game imo

Only the best survive the mercs thunderdome!
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DeathChicken
01/09/19 2:38:29 PM
#73:


Random thought that Agent 47 would become a murder machine if given like, Mardi Gras from Blood Money as a terrain
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trdl23
01/09/19 3:29:17 PM
#74:


DeathChicken posted...
Random thought that Agent 47 would become a murder machine if given like, Mardi Gras from Blood Money as a terrain

This actually came up as we were discussing 47, though not any specific terrain iirc.
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Johnbobb
01/09/19 5:20:36 PM
#75:


Yeah I think that might help Ezio too. Ezio on Villa Auditore got very little resort but maybe he'd get more with groups of conveniently-disguisable NPCs walking around
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KanzarisKelshen
01/09/19 9:11:30 PM
#76:


trdl23 posted...
DeathChicken posted...
Random thought that Agent 47 would become a murder machine if given like, Mardi Gras from Blood Money as a terrain

This actually came up as we were discussing 47, though not any specific terrain iirc.


Sneak peek of some of the work we did on him:

Silent Assassin (Passive): After being on the receiving end of an assassination attempt a few times already, 47 has learned to cover his tracks. If he is rostered for battle, the enemy team will not be aware of his participation in the fight, nor will they realize the fight is not yet over if they defeat all of his teammates while he remains undiscovered.


So, y'know - we hear ya, DC ;)
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Gatarix
01/10/19 5:33:34 PM
#77:


KanzarisKelshen posted...
nor will they realize the fight is not yet over if they defeat all of his teammates while he remains undiscovered.

omg
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KanzarisKelshen
01/10/19 10:32:02 PM
#78:


Speaking of sharpening merc identities to make them more attractive

the next match topic we're planning to put up is another sneak preview of our work fixing old mercenaries. Hint as to who's involved: this character very recently got a major announcement related to their franchise.
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ScareChan
01/11/19 12:01:50 AM
#79:


you know what would be interesting

do a match here

then rerun the match after it closes on CE

I know somoene was talking about a CE mercs, get new blood and test the waters there
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KanzarisKelshen
01/11/19 8:47:03 PM
#80:


Not a single guess? Y'all suck

Oh well, debuting this new ability in 5 minutes. So you know what we're about see, this is the topic header:

~SEDUCTION!~

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KanzarisKelshen
01/11/19 8:54:00 PM
#81:


And it's time. Introducing...the game of love!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77381793
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Johnbobb
01/12/19 6:01:51 PM
#82:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/77384108
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DeathChicken
01/13/19 5:22:21 PM
#83:


Eesh, Catherine is disrespected if she can't seduce the third horniest man in gaming (I'd only put Duke Nukem and Leisure Suit Larry above Snake on the horny meter. Maybe Ezio)
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Tom Bombadil
01/13/19 5:26:19 PM
#84:


time to make a Rance merc

don't actually do that
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Kamekguy
01/13/19 6:23:13 PM
#85:


I feel like it's debatable. Like get her in a room with Pit and she just tells him she has ice cream at her house and he's like OOH ICE CREAM OKAY.

That said some language tweaking is in order, as well as a way to upgrade it to make it more effective (hello shapeshifting).

Still think it could be used on Dante and she'd just take her hair down and he'd be like HNNNNGH MOTHERRRRRR.
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Gatarix
01/14/19 11:39:05 AM
#86:


Snake is horny but mission-oriented

I voted Snake but I'd take Catherine over a lot of less horny mercs (like I totally buy what Kamek said for Catherine > Pit)
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ZeeksFire
01/15/19 1:39:30 PM
#87:


Hmm, in playing some epic battle fantasy 5, I had a thought on Auto-life spells, that could make them still worth having in the game, but making them not broken. There is a status effect called Morale (which is in other games, usually guts or the like) which makes a person's hp not able to be knocked below 1 from damage, or just flat kill spells, as long as the person's hp is above a certain threshhold. (EBF is 50%) Having Auto-life grant that type of power rather than just on death, revive, would make it be viable to exist, because being able to stop random one shot skill is a strong power.

I'm also interested in just throwing together characters from EBF, (possibly a pile of 3's, could see it easily be a 5 if the full team together), and could easily think of some neat abilities that exist in the game as mechanics that'd transfer over well. The problem would be that they'd be a bit clunky because of all their various gear, and a lot based off of having a lot of power tied in customization equipment.
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Tom Bombadil
01/15/19 2:26:31 PM
#88:


I second EBF representation
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DeathChicken
01/15/19 11:33:45 PM
#89:


I'm always kind of amused by how the time gap between Mercs is such that entire videogame series go by with assloads of characters who never see the light of day. Like we got Ezio in Mercs, then missed Connor, Edward (this one's tragic, Edward is cool), Shay, etc

Likewise we have Red Dead 2 now and Arthur, but we never even got John Marston, did we?
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Tom Bombadil
01/15/19 11:34:58 PM
#90:


I tend to be about one Mercs behind on video games so that's usually pretty awkward
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KanzarisKelshen
01/15/19 11:36:57 PM
#91:


DeathChicken posted...
I'm always kind of amused by how the time gap between Mercs is such that entire videogame series go by with assloads of characters who never see the light of day. Like we got Ezio in Mercs, then missed Connor, Edward (this one's tragic, Edward is cool), Shay, etc

Likewise we have Red Dead 2 now and Arthur, but we never even got John Marston, did we?


It's a pity yeah

Not sure how we'd fix that beyond sparking lots of interest with m5 such that its followup comes quicker

(which, to be fair, is a mission statement, so...fingers crossed!)
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IfGodCouldDie
01/15/19 11:40:57 PM
#92:


How far along are you guys anyway?
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greengravy294
01/15/19 11:47:03 PM
#93:


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IfGodCouldDie
01/15/19 11:49:53 PM
#94:


Is that in Kanz time?
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DeathChicken
01/15/19 11:58:40 PM
#95:


I'm curious about Marston/Arthur's respect actually, since I remember Ocelot getting a bunch of "Durr hurr ancient guns his feats don't matter" guff. But on the flipside, Red Dead has stupid feats like a guy looking at another guy on a mountain through binoculars and getting shot exactly in the binoculars
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Kamekguy
01/16/19 12:09:41 AM
#96:


To give a basic overview:

-Made sure all new systems are defined.
-Creating and curating an updated codex of terms and rulings to actually be usable.
-Have been going over all old systems and tweaking and defining them.
-Have been ensuring that each ability has consistent language and definition. If something is considered a "harmful effect", it has been noted.
-Roughly 33% of all models have had a round table discussion around them done, dissected, and tweaked. Catherine was one of the results of this, as you saw. Data was taken from that topic in order to incorporate it, along with multiple other sample topics. This is to ensure that we have fun and fair pre-battle topics and fight topics, as well as proper pricing.
-At least 30 new models for characters not featured in previous games of Mercs have been made, along with significant reworks of others. All of these have been discussed, tweaked, and approved. So it's not like I made a shitty Donkey Kong Jr. model again or something and am counting it because I'm a huge Donkey Kong Jr. mark.
-10 models have been made for the proposed 'Bounty Hunter' system.
-If a character was as they appeared in Super Smash Bros, they are no longer that. This does not include Master Hand, as otherwise he would be from a real-life glove box.
-I am currently playing the greatest game of our time, Kao the Kangaroo Round 2, to see whether he, Roo, Roger Jr, or Ricky from Oracle of Seasons is the best kangaroo with boxing gloves on.

Currently, model overview, completing the uniform format for each model, and establishing rules of play (i.e. tiers, elimination, etc.) are the focuses.

(Note these are all my impressions and I just got home after running 20 minutes in the rain. I am very cold and might be wrong on some things.)
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KanzarisKelshen
01/16/19 1:14:29 AM
#97:


Sounds about right to me - we're aiming to release a glossary of 'tags' for abilities to help people make mercs under the new system as well (the idea being that we can codify stuff like defensive abilities such that they block based on tags so you know 100% if an ability counters another or not), but otherwise that covers everything.
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ScareChan
01/16/19 3:49:02 AM
#98:


you know what we need

Obra Dinn support monster that attaches to an enemy merc and summons chuthulu monsters to attack the terrain. It would target enemy team, but would basically be a third party and would fight either team if they cross paths
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Johnbobb
01/16/19 9:49:49 AM
#99:


I'm down for an Obra Dinn merc

DeathChicken posted...
Like we got Ezio in Mercs, then missed Connor, Edward (this one's tragic, Edward is cool), Shay, etc

Part of the issue there is that different assassins don't really have drastically different abilities. There are some differences(Edward's guns, Connor's hunting tools, etc) but they would ultimately full very similar roles with very similar respect

Ezios probably the protag that would get the most stealth respect and wouldbe most recognizable given that he has 3 games
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DeathChicken
01/16/19 10:38:17 AM
#100:


Edward gets a free pirate boat. Combine with Demyx's flood the terrain ability for hilarity
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