Board 8 > `````` Nominate SHEIK for CB11! #DownB
| Topic List | |
|---|---|
|
Tom Bombadil 12/28/18 10:49:53 AM #51: |
man I knew I shoulda blind signed
frickin' in, would say they should be two slots --- https://imgtc.com/i/uWMMlnN.png A thousand candles of peace ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 11:25:57 AM #52: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
Zero Suit Samus was separated from normal Samus too, that doesn't make them different characters. Nightmare and Siegfried actually exist as different beings within the SC story. I'm not opposed to ZSS getting in a contest, though I'm not advocating for her either. I think Sheik is more separate from Zelda than ZSS is to Samus and there is more legitimate support for Sheik to be an individual character on GameFAQs than ZSS. I'll walk through my thought process with ZSS, why not: 1) Nightmare is a form of Siegfried = Sheik is a form of Zelda. <-- ZSS is a form of Samus. 2) Nightmare was once considered to be Siegfried, but they entirely separated in Soul Calibur 3 = Sheik was once considered to be Zelda, but they entirely separated in SSB4. <-- ZSS was once considered to be Samus, but they entirely separated in SSB4. 3) Nightmare's play-style is significantly different from Siegfried's = Sheik's play-style is significantly different from Zelda's. --> ZSS's play-style is significantly different from Samus's. I'm adding these two other points from the .R.O.B./Ancient Master conversation now: 4) Nightmare's appearance is not immediately similar to Siegfried = Sheik's appearance is not immediately similar to Zelda --> ZSS's appearance is not immediately similar to Samus. 5) Nightmare's name and identity are not immediately similar to Siegfried = Sheik's name and identity are not immediately similar to Zelda --> Ah, Zero Suit Samus is without question connected by name and identity to Samus. So by those points, thanks to the Smash series, I think ZSS has an argument but it's weaker than Sheik's and I don't see people out-nominating Samus to get ZSS in. I hear you on your point of entity and permanence for Nightmare which makes that a unique relationship hard to replicate, so I'll go back to my point that SB has proven to be lenient over the years. There are a lot of similarities here though and Sheik is unique too. Since SB is afraid of both clones and other fictional characters not from games, we believe Sheik is different enough from Dr. Mario in a similar way Geralt is different enough from Spiderman. Allowing Sheik doesn't mean allowing Crossdressing Cloud or Yellow Yoshi. Sheik is plenty unique to consider separately, and if SB is that afraid he can put her in the same division as Zelda to nullify the risk of a takeover (though he didn't do that for Siegfried and Nightmare in 2008 and let them team up in 2011). --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 11:29:39 AM #53: |
Tom Bombadil posted...
man I knew I shoulda blind signed Better late than never, and it's never too late to support Sheik. Thank you for joining the battle and agreeing two slots is appropriate! --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 11:39:20 AM #54: |
O P E R A T I O N O U S T :
vB) HaRRicH vB) ZenOfThunder 3) Eddv 4) AxemRedRanger 5) MetalmindStats 6) UltimaterializerX 7) hombad46 8) STEINER 9) Shonen_Bat 10) TAFKAHurricane 11) Logience 12) Janus5k 13) Dels 14) WarThaNemesis2 --- 15) Kenri 16) Shaduln 17) Popcorn_Fairy 18) Tom Bombadil 19) A new legend..... SHEIKAH ON STANDBY: jcgamer107 https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/7a/76/067a765c276f3e51b91c82daabe3da27.jpg BOARD 8'S STEPPING-STONE GOALS: --> Five (5) blind pledges from Board 8 - DOUBLE SUCCESS --> Ten (10) pledges within the rally's first week --> Five (5) unique users adding Sheik-based signatures BOARD 8'S MAJOR GOAL: --> Eighty (80) pledges to support her getting into the contest by CB11's nomination-period --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 11:58:58 AM #55: |
ZELDAS PICTURES IN CHARACTER BATTLES:
Here's the breakdown of how many times Sheik has appeared in a picture for a Zelda-match. 2003 (two pictures): 2005 (two pictures): 2006 (eight pictures): 2007 (two pictures): 2008 (two pictures): 2009/2010 (seven pictures): --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 11:59:14 AM #56: |
2013 (two pictures): 2018 (at least thirteen pictures): Out of at least 38 pictures: Tetra: 1 (0 for main focus) Sheik: 3 (1 for main focus) Zelda: 47+ (36+ for main focus) But Zelda represents Sheik -- are you kidding me?! Zelda, not Sheik, has been the main focus of every single Zelda-match until we messaged SBAllen about getting Sheik in a contest. In comparison, before we messaged SBAllen, Sheik was only in Zeldas background twice...and both times were on the same day from the CJayC-era. SBAllen did break new ground to feature Sheik in her first foreground shot in 2018...once, which was not what we asked for regarding Sheiks representation. To be clear, OF COURSE Zelda should be the focus in Zelda-matches. The point is to counter the argument that Sheik-fans should be satisfied with Zelda representing them. Sheik needed Zelda to make it into 2006s Final Four for Sheiks right eye to make it into the background two out of four rotating pictures, and Sheik needed Zelda to make it into 2018's Losers Finals for Sheik to get her first foreground shot in another set of four rotating pictures. Am I missing something, or is this really what some people think will satisfy Sheik-fans? Zelda represents ZELDA, not Sheik. #DownB --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 12:13:22 PM #57: |
I have to admit, Moogle raises some good points. If Nightmare and Siegfried are truly two different entities, one of whom is a spirit that possesses the other for some time (but not all the time), then that's a different situation compared to a character who is just a disguise.
The fact that they get separated in Smash games (I haven't played them so I don't know) is the best argument for them being different, but I think you couldn't really argue for Zero Suit Samus being a different character than Samus. Sure, Sheik has a different name, but if the character was called "Disguised Zelda" instead, would you have any case? If Zero Suit Samus was suddenly called "Zero Hunter" as an alias instead, would that make her any more of a different entity? ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 12:40:04 PM #58: |
So one of the things I would like to see clarified about the Siegfried/Nightmare-divide Moogle brought up is how long it took in the series storyline to clarify Nightnare is its own entity and just chose to continue staying within Siegfried without necessarily bouncing to its next host. I was mostly a SC2-player and had to ask some SC friends and watch videos like this:
 How clear was it from the beginning Nightmare and Siegfried were separate entities? The fact that Siegfried/Nightmare were allowed after SC3 when they separated feels like a point in Sheik's favor now that Sheik has separated from Zelda, and any Smash player will immediately recognize the multiple differences between them. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 12:55:13 PM #59: |
Dels posted...
Sure, Sheik has a different name, but if the character was called "Disguised Zelda" instead, would you have any case? If Zero Suit Samus was suddenly called "Zero Hunter" as an alias instead, would that make her any more of a different entity? Sheik's success was more than a name -- players were effectively convinced Sheik was not Zelda through the majority of LoZ:OoT, then Nintendo honored those separate identities and character traits by first of all including her when they never added the likes of Tetra, then they went further by separating them mechanically in Smash. Zero Hunter would help Samus's case in my book but not really in a big way. Metroid's original spoiler was --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 1:20:10 PM #60: |
DOES SHEIK GET FAIR REPRESENTATION WITHIN THE LEGEND OF ZELDA?
So weve seen Sheik is hardly getting representation in Zeldas pictures. How about their original game and series they shared though? Did Sheik get her proper recognition there? 2004 for LoZ:OoT (four pictures -- one is relevant): 2006 for the LoZ-series (twelve pictures -- seven are relevant): 2009 (twenty-four pictures -- five are relevant): 2013 (nine pictures -- five are relevant): Out of 49 pictures -- 18 that are relevant: Sheik: 9 Zelda: 16 This is as fair to Sheik as GameFAQs has allowed up to this point: using her to boost the site's strongest game and series, yet still not allowing Sheik to represent herself as a character. It's worth noting that six of Sheik's nine pictures here featured Zelda in them too. All we are saaaaaaaayiiiiiiiiing ...is give Sheik a chance. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 1:25:08 PM #61: |
To be honest, I have not played OoT, Soul Calibur, or SSB4 or Ultimate. So I'm not the best person to weigh in on this. Either way, I still don't see the harm in making a push for Sheik, and I think even if they are the same, it'd be neat to see both in a bracket. So I suppose that's the end of my contribution here. Good luck with your rally.
... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 1:26:30 PM #62: |
DOES SHEIK GET FAIR REPRESENTATION WITH SUPER SMASH BROS.?
Sheik consistently out-tiers Zelda in every Smash-game. That probably means Sheik gets represented well in Smash-pics, right? Nope. 2004 for Melee (five pictures -- three are relevant): 2006 for the Smash-series (three pictures -- one is relevant): 2009 for Melee (eleven pictures -- three are relevant): 2009 for Brawl (eleven pictures -- none are relevant): 2010 for Melee (six pictures -- three are relevant): 2010 for Brawl (nineteen pictures -- two are relevant): --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 1:27:03 PM #63: |
2015 for Melee (six pictures -- two are relevant and one picture from Round Two is missing from both creativenames site and the Board 8 Wiki) 2015 for SSB4 Wii U (three pictures -- the first two are irrelevant and Round Three is missing from both creativenames site and the Board 8 Wiki): Out of 64 pictures -- at least 14 that are relevant: Sheik: 1 Zelda: 14 Sheik only got one picture in Smashs matches compared to the fourteen Zelda has! Now granted, many of these pictures are crowded, but Sheik has earned her spot within this series every bit as much as Zelda AND THEN SOME. Just because Zelda-fans usually like Sheik a lot does NOT mean Sheik-fans often like Zelda the same. #DownB --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 1:29:01 PM #64: |
Dels posted...
To be honest, I have not played OoT, Soul Calibur, or SSB4 or Ultimate. So I'm not the best person to weigh in on this. Either way, I still don't see the harm in making a push for Sheik, and I think even if they are the same, it'd be neat to see both in a bracket. So I suppose that's the end of my contribution here. Good luck with your rally. OoT, Smash, and Soul Calibur 2 are fine games -- give 'em a shot sometime if you can. Appreciate the support! --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 1:32:56 PM #65: |
I made it my goal to finally dive into the Zelda series a couple years back. I played Zelda I and loved it, I beat II and acknowledged that it uh has lots of good, unique, gameplay, but has aged horribly. And then I got like 75% of the way through LttP before life got busy and I never returned to it. I plan on continuing the series in chronological order eventually.
I'm not very good at fighting games so I'm not into smash much. I played the Wii one 10 years ago but I'm just not really into it. I actually sort of like fighting games in concept and love seeing all the characters and special moves, but I'm awful at them. No reflexes. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 1:35:11 PM #66: |
Are you the person that I talked to/PMed about 2d platformers? And we talked about The End Is Nigh? Because you had a playthrough topic for it? Or *I* had a playthrough topic for it? Sorry, my memory for board 8 users is kind of rough sometimes.
... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 1:45:55 PM #67: |
3D LoZ is a great take on 2D Zelda, but Link Between Worlds showed me how 2D > 3D. Fantastic series.
And yes! The End is Nigh was so brutal and dare I say unethical with its difficulty ( --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 1:54:37 PM #68: |
Yeah, Link Between Worlds looks so nice! I really liked the series from what I played of it, I'm excited to get to more, just, y'know. So many games, so little time.
Okay cool, I'm glad I wasn't remembering wrong. Nope, nothing lately really. I'm sure you've played Celeste. I don't know what else there's been in that genre this year. Guacamelee 2 sort of, but not really. The Messenger also sort of. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 2:00:24 PM #69: |
Oh, I checked, apparently you recommended Night in the Woods to me, which I did play this month, and it was fantastic!
You're also the murder mystery guy, right? I finally bought Umineko during the past steam sale and was considering doing a playthrough topic. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 2:17:25 PM #70: |
I've heard excellent things about Celeste but I haven't played it yet, no. There's a Guacamelee 2? Neat! The first one was pretty rad. Don't know the Messenger.
There's another NitW playthrough topic here that just started if you wanna check it out. Some of the best writing in a video game -- Mae Borowski is my spirit animal. You might be thinking of KamikazePotato about Umineko -- he championed that one for awhile. I tried it but didn't get into it. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 6:05:19 PM #71: |
Bumping fish.
--- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
| #72 | Post #72 was unavailable or deleted. |
|
jcgamer107 12/28/18 7:43:20 PM #73: |
but Sheik's legendary in Melee, the best fighting game ever
--- Official Advokaiser advocate ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 8:02:22 PM #74: |
Hm, but I thought you were the person who was really into murder mystery stuff? Was I wrong?
... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Kenri 12/28/18 8:12:59 PM #75: |
That might've been Han? Not sure, don't remember it being Harrich though.
--- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 8:18:34 PM #76: |
Hm. Who is the murder mystery person then? They were even developing their own game, I think.
... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/28/18 10:45:25 PM #77: |
Foolmoron and agasonex made games from our board. I believe nintendogirl too, but I haven't seen her in awhile.
--- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/28/18 11:44:44 PM #78: |
I'm not sure, but I don't think it's relevant either way. By the time they both were in the contest they were established as separate, so there's not a precedent there in Sheik's favor.
The difference is Nightmare and Siegfried were seperated within the lore of their series, not just on a fighter select screen. There's stil no canonical Sheik who isn't Zelda in a costume. --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Dels 12/28/18 11:53:52 PM #79: |
HaRRicH posted...
Foolmoron and agasonex made games from our board. I believe nintendogirl too, but I haven't seen her in awhile. Uh. I'm surprised no one else remembers this? Board 8 definitely has a murder mystery person who was developing their own story. They posted graphics and everything. They're really into murder mysteries, they make topics about it. I guess it's not you though. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/28/18 11:58:35 PM #80: |
Allowing Sheik doesn't mean allowing Crossdressing Cloud or Yellow Yoshi. Sheik is plenty unique to consider separately, and if SB is that afraid he can put her in the same division as Zelda to nullify the risk of a takeover (though he didn't do that for Siegfried and Nightmare in 2008 and let them team up in 2011). I'm not worried about Crossdressing Cloud, I'm worried about Wolf Link and Fierce Diety Link. Maybe even Toon Link if we're using separate slots on the Smash character select screen to justify Sheik. we don't need more Links --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Popcorn_Fairy 12/28/18 11:58:38 PM #81: |
But Sheik is a good bit more than Zelda in a costume. It's a whole different persona. Sheik doesn't look, act, or sound like Zelda. Zelda doesn't look, act, or sound like Sheik. The whole point of Sheik was to not be Zelda.
--- ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/29/18 12:09:24 AM #82: |
Popcorn_Fairy posted...
But Sheik is a good bit more than Zelda in a costume. It's a whole different persona. Sheik doesn't look, act, or sound like Zelda. Zelda doesn't look, act, or sound like Sheik. The whole point of Sheik was to not be Zelda. sure. Zelda is Bruce Wayne, Sheik is Batman. I don't think there would be a lot of support for having Bruce Wayne and Batman as separate entants in a comics character contest . --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 2:16:20 AM #83: |
So Ultimate is inconsistent in a way. In one way, you're right about its (lack of) lore and how in one of its hint screens it suggests something like "In LoZ:OoT, Sheik is Ze--well you'll just have to play her game."
In another way, Ultimate's advertising literally features this shot to solidify them being separate characters: http://imgur.com/gallery/ewjazK0 Sheik usually isn't in their group shot-advertisements in their past games together. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Popcorn_Fairy 12/29/18 2:21:10 AM #84: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
sure. Zelda is Bruce Wayne, Sheik is Batman. I don't think there would be a lot of support for having Bruce Wayne and Batman as separate entants in a comics character contest . Except the line is much closer and blurred with Batman and Bruce. For example, it's not uncommon for Bruce to start going Batman on peeps while still Bruce Wayne. Bruce and Batman aren't so far away from each other. Sheik and Zelda have a much more clear defining line. Batman and Bruce are much more Bruce in Costume. Meanwhile Sheik is a very different character than Zelda. --- ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 2:24:26 AM #85: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
I'm not worried about Crossdressing Cloud, I'm worried about Wolf Link and Fierce Diety Link. Maybe even Toon Link if we're using separate slots on the Smash character select screen to justify Sheik. Sheik is more separated from Zelda than any of those Links are to Link. In addition, Sheik is beating any Link-character not simply titled Link, and the same goes for any other clone-fears people have. In any case, no variation of Link will out-nominate Link. In the meanwhile, Zen and I have a history of out-seeding Zelda with Corvo and Epona in 2013. Zen also nearly did it again this year with Metal Sonic. If you don't want both Zelda and Sheik in the same contest, that alone doesn't disqualify Sheik -- Zelda can still be out-nominated. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Kenri 12/29/18 2:31:45 AM #86: |
HaRRicH posted...
Sheik is more separated from Zelda than any of those Links are to Link. I mean, aside from the fact that the different Links are actually legit different characters, while Sheik is Zelda in disguise. <_< Ultimate kinda addresses that though by very clearly picking two different Zeldas to represent Sheik and Zelda. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/29/18 2:37:11 AM #87: |
I think just Sheik and no Zelda in the contest is the worst option. Sheik is only one very specific part of Zelda, while Zelda is all parts of Zelda including Sheik. It's a less inclusive way to represent the character.
Sheik is more separated from Zelda than any of those Links are to Link. "separated" in what sense? Wolf Link and Sheik seem like the same situation to me. They're both magically altered versions of a character that look and play differently. Fierce Diety and the other MM Links are even more of a separate character because it's like a DBZ fusion with some other being's soul. --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 2:46:06 AM #88: |
Popcorn_Fairy posted...
sure. Zelda is Bruce Wayne, Sheik is Batman. I don't think there would be a lot of support for having Bruce Wayne and Batman as separate entants in a comics character contest . Playfully, hell yeah Sheik is Batman to Zelda's Bruce Wayne -- Sheik is the best between them! Also though, to me it's like Bruce Wayne has been in comic book contests since 2003 and people insist Batman can't be represented because Bruce Wayne has been here. Why wouldn't you include Batman?! Batman's awesome and has been for years! We have an inclusive solution where both of them can be featured, and if there's no inertia toward allowing Batman to be seen by normal means then we'll work extra hard to out-nominate Bruce and be done with it. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/29/18 2:48:53 AM #89: |
Except the line is much closer and blurred with Batman and Bruce. For example, it's not uncommon for Bruce to start going Batman on peeps while still Bruce Wayne. Bruce and Batman aren't so far away from each other. Sheik and Zelda have a much more clear defining line. Batman and Bruce are much more Bruce in Costume. Meanwhile Sheik is a very different character than Zelda. aside from the aesthetics are Zelda and Sheik even that different in OoT? Their practical purpose is just to teach Link songs to help defeat Ganondorf. They have identical goals. also playboy Bruce is the costume, Batman is the actual personality there --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/29/18 2:54:26 AM #90: |
Also though, to me it's like Bruce Wayne has been in comic book contests since 2003 and people insist Batman can't be represented because Bruce Wayne has been here. Why wouldn't you include Batman?! Batman's awesome and has been for years! We have an inclusive solution where both of them can be featured, and if there's no inertia toward allowing Batman to be seen by normal means then we'll work extra hard to out-nominate Bruce and be done with it. but it's like if Bruce Wayne existed in comics for thirty years just being Bruce Wayne and then there was year in those thirty years where he dressed up as Batman. It's a small part of who Zelda is compared to Bruce/Batman. getting Sheik in the contest instead of Zelda is like getting Nomad in a contest instead of Captain America --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 3:16:32 AM #91: |
Kenri posted...
HaRRicH posted...Sheik is more separated from Zelda than any of those Links are to Link. First of all, thank you for reminding me of the different LoZ-games being represented by Sheik and Zelda in Ultimate. As for your other point, fine job catching me get too loose with my words there. You're right that it was a disguise in LoZ:OoT. A lot of my argument goes back to these points about comparing Siegfried/Nightmare and Zelda/Sheik, so here's an opinion on the Links regarding them and Smash. 1) Nightmare is a form of Siegfried = Sheik is a form of Zelda. <-- Each Link is a different person -- I forget if it is family lineage or just some heroic power that ties them together in the LoZ-series, but Link/YL/TL are not the same person 2) Nightmare was once considered to be Siegfried, but they entirely separated in Soul Calibur 3 = Sheik was once considered to be Zelda, but they entirely separated in SSB4. <-- Link, Young Link, and Toon Link were never considered to be precisely the same character in Smash. 3) Nightmare's play-style is significantly different from Siegfried's = Sheik's play-style is significantly different from Zelda's. --> all three characters play similarly. 4) Nightmare's appearance is not immediately similar to Siegfried = Sheik's appearance is not immediately similar to Zelda --> all three Links appear similar with stylistic differences. 5) Nightmare's name and identity are not immediately similar to Siegfried = Sheik's name and identity are not immediately similar to Zelda --> Link, Young Link, and Toon Link have similar names. Young Link or Toon Link in addition to Link would break the spirit of what we're dealing with here. LoZ has weird continuity with its characters so they may be recognized as separate characters, but the points above remind us how similar they are in Smash and that's before considering how similar they are in LoZ. Wolf Link and Fierce Diety Link are basically power-ups to existing Links in my mind -- nobody wants Fire Mario and Cape Mario. With recognition that Sheik is a disguise for Zelda in LoZ:OoT, Smash still separates Sheik from Zelda more overall than these Links do from Link. If somebody wants to rally one of these Links over Link though, good luck...! --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
_SecretSquirrel 12/29/18 3:23:04 AM #92: |
HaRRicH posted...
If somebody wants to rally one of these Links over Link though, good luck...! Honestly, I think you might have stumbled onto something with this statement. Imagine if Adult Link was forced to sit out in lieu of Young Link, Toon Link, or CDi Link. Would that be a big enough blight to bring down the god of the contests? --- Agent Triple Zero at your service! This line reserved for the true greatone, Advokaiser, the 2018 Guru Contest winner. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 3:23:22 AM #93: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
also playboy Bruce is the costume, Batman is the actual personality there Bruce Wayne came first and was shaped to become Batman from Bruce's tragic childhood. Bruce's playboy lifestyle as an adult can be its own cover, so to speak, but let's not blur that with Bruce Wayne and say Bruce is Batman's costume. Batman is Bruce's costume. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 3:29:22 AM #94: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
but it's like if Bruce Wayne existed in comics for thirty years just being Bruce Wayne and then there was year in those thirty years where he dressed up as Batman. Sheik's been relevant for twenty of those thirty years, thanks to Smash. LoZ:OoT was only most relevant to Sheik's fanbase when that was Sheik's only game from 1998 to 2001. Zelda has had her own adventures in the LoZ-series since then, but Sheik hasn't been rusting away either -- she continues to be awesome by her own merits in a different series. --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Kenri 12/29/18 3:30:19 AM #95: |
HaRRicH posted...
Young Link or Toon Link in addition to Link would break the spirit of what we're dealing with here. LoZ has weird continuity with its characters so they may be recognized as separate characters, but the points above remind us how similar they are in Smash and that's before considering how similar they are in LoZ. Wolf Link and Fierce Diety Link are basically power-ups to existing Links in my mind -- nobody wants Fire Mario and Cape Mario. I agree with all of this. I think the best pro-Sheik line, for me at least, is that plenty of characters get into these contests on Smash and effectively nothing else, so it's not really any worse to try to get Sheik in on her Smash status. They're different characters in a "character select screen" sense rather than a literary sense. --- Congrats to BKSheikah, who knows more about years than anyone else. ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 3:32:15 AM #96: |
_SecretSquirrel posted...
HaRRicH posted...If somebody wants to rally one of these Links over Link though, good luck...! Maaaaan that's a wild timeline to think about...I can only imagine the fallout in such an unlikely situation! --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
MoogleKupo141 12/29/18 3:37:37 AM #97: |
HaRRicH posted...
MoogleKupo141 posted...but it's like if Bruce Wayne existed in comics for thirty years just being Bruce Wayne and then there was year in those thirty years where he dressed up as Batman. sure, but she still appears as Sheik way fewer times than she appears as just Zelda, so including her in the contest as Sheik is a worse way to represent the overall character because they're the same character. Even if it doesn't come through in the gameplay anymore, there's still theoretically a princess hiding under Smash Sheik's ninja costume --- For your BK_Sheikah00. At least Kupo has class and doesn't MESSAGE the people -Dr Pizza ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
Ulti_PCA 12/29/18 3:45:01 AM #98: |
jcgamer107 posted...
but Sheik's legendary in Melee, the best fighting game ever Ultimate is better. Coming from me of all people, that is a huge deal. --- https://board8.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page CONGRATS ADVOKAISER!!! ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 3:45:18 AM #99: |
Kenri posted...
I think the best pro-Sheik line, for me at least, is that plenty of characters get into these contests on Smash and effectively nothing else, so it's not really any worse to try to get Sheik in on her Smash status. They're different characters in a "character select screen" sense rather than a literary sense. Thank you, and we do have an angle regarding this as well. Stay tuned for it next week. Tomorrow though, we're talking about Zelda's past nomination history and what that means if we're going to out-nominate her. Probably other cool things too! --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
|
HaRRicH 12/29/18 4:06:32 AM #100: |
MoogleKupo141 posted...
sure, but she still appears as Sheik way fewer times than she appears as just Zelda, so including her in the contest as Sheik is a worse way to represent the overall character It's worth repeating: we don't want Sheik to represent Zelda, we want Sheik to represent Sheik. We mainly advocate for Sheik and Zelda to both be allowed in the same contests and only threaten Zelda's spot in the next contest as a last resort due to no other attention brought to this issue for Sheik-fans. As for the person under the mask, you made it sound like earlier you thought some Links were more different due to soul-fusions. Do you have an opinion on how Ultimate treats playable characters with spirits? Because Sheik does get posessed by multiple pre-set spirits in the single player mode and players can later customize her spirits too. (and hey, I appreciate you debating in good faith here -- you've got good points despite my counter-arguments) --- O P E R A T I O N O U S T : Nominate SHEIK! https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/0/0d/Sheik-Victory3-SSB4.png ... Copied to Clipboard!
|
| Topic List |
