Poll of the Day > Just watched Infinity War again. (SPOILERS)

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AllstarSniper32
01/04/19 11:28:06 AM
51
Unbridled9 posted...

Like, let's think about Thanos's finger-snap. In a poof about half of all world leaders, governments, CEO's, inventors, and everything else just vanished away. This means half of all nations just lost their leaders. Somewhere like North Korea or China may have been just thrown into turmoil because their leadership is now gone. Their successor may be gone as well. Then you have a bunch of lower and lesser positions which, while not as notable, are no less critical to keeping a nation going. Nevermind the fact that half off all trains, planes, ships, buses, cars, are now gone turning these things into missiles and similar things which will kill anyone inside of them or that they hit when crashing. And even after the finger-snap you have just killed off half of all farmers, plumbers, technicians, IT guys, and the like. There's going to be mass starvation simply because everything is breaking down and there's no one to tend to the crop fields. Your cushy city life simply can't happen anymore because more than half the people growing food are dead, more than half the people transporting it to the city are dead. More than half the people involved in knowing where to ship it to are dead. More than half of your electricians are dead so you probably can't keep any perishables. Half or more of your doctors and medical people are dead in the event the food poisons you... It just keeps going.

Yeah...it doesn't work like that. He specifically states that it will be completely random. It's not taking one role, like bus drivers, and erasing half of them. That's more selective and not random. You could remove half of the human population and not lose a single bus driver. Unless there's like a billion bus drivers out there.
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Unbridled9
01/04/19 5:49:17 PM
52
AllstarSniper32 posted...
Unbridled9 posted...

Like, let's think about Thanos's finger-snap. In a poof about half of all world leaders, governments, CEO's, inventors, and everything else just vanished away. This means half of all nations just lost their leaders. Somewhere like North Korea or China may have been just thrown into turmoil because their leadership is now gone. Their successor may be gone as well. Then you have a bunch of lower and lesser positions which, while not as notable, are no less critical to keeping a nation going. Nevermind the fact that half off all trains, planes, ships, buses, cars, are now gone turning these things into missiles and similar things which will kill anyone inside of them or that they hit when crashing. And even after the finger-snap you have just killed off half of all farmers, plumbers, technicians, IT guys, and the like. There's going to be mass starvation simply because everything is breaking down and there's no one to tend to the crop fields. Your cushy city life simply can't happen anymore because more than half the people growing food are dead, more than half the people transporting it to the city are dead. More than half the people involved in knowing where to ship it to are dead. More than half of your electricians are dead so you probably can't keep any perishables. Half or more of your doctors and medical people are dead in the event the food poisons you... It just keeps going.

Yeah...it doesn't work like that. He specifically states that it will be completely random. It's not taking one role, like bus drivers, and erasing half of them. That's more selective and not random. You could remove half of the human population and not lose a single bus driver. Unless there's like a billion bus drivers out there.


The reason I'm saying 'half or more' is because a sizable chunk will die either immediately after due to other people missing (like a doctor being hit by a now-driverless car) or soon after during the immediately following chaos and collapse of civilization (like someone dying because half of all fire-fighters are now dead and there's a ton of fires from crashing cars and houses that are now vacant but had stoves on and the like.)
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AllstarSniper32
01/04/19 8:47:07 PM
53
Unbridled9 posted...
The reason I'm saying 'half or more' is because a sizable chunk will die either immediately after due to other people missing (like a doctor being hit by a now-driverless car) or soon after during the immediately following chaos and collapse of civilization (like someone dying because half of all fire-fighters are now dead and there's a ton of fires from crashing cars and houses that are now vacant but had stoves on and the like.)

It's not about the "half or more", it's about how you're selecting specific groups and then saying each group is cut in half.

In your post you said half of all fire-fighters are now dead, but if you really randomly got rid of half of all humans on earth, there's a chance that you wouldn't lose a single fire-fighter. Cause it's random.
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Black_Crusher
01/04/19 11:38:21 PM
54
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.
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Lokarin
01/05/19 12:33:12 AM
55
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


I have a hypothesis...

He didn't give him HIS time stone, he gave him his future self's time stone
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Zangulus
01/05/19 12:34:33 AM
56
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.
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ParanoidObsessive
01/05/19 1:04:50 AM
57
Lil69Leo posted...
Not necessarily. Some have contracts ending. Chris Evans and RDJ being notable ones.

Neither of whom died in Infinity War, so it doesn't really apply in this case anyway.

The theory is that at least one of them is going to die in the next movie, but it's not as if Marvel can't just have them retire in-universe and occasionally make guest appearances in the future. Have a throw-away line in a future Spider-Man movie about how Tony helped Peter design Spider-Tracers, or have someone mention that Steve has decided to run for Congress, etc. It actually helps make the world feel even more real in a way, than just killing people off when they don't want to do any more movies.

And it's not as if people didn't retire from the Avengers in the comics. People were constantly coming and going from the team all the time.



Zangulus posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.

Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.

This.

Strange literally says he viewed every single future, and in only ONE of them did the good guys win. So everything he does from that point is specifically setting up that one future.

Thanos is on the verge of killing Tony when Strange gives him the stone. Ergo, that single future likely requires Tony to be alive. Thus, allowing Thanos to "win" with the goal of undoing it later would be the only solution that works - actively trying to stop him will fail every single time, no matter what they do or how hard they try.


Also, a couple references to the new movie, which people should try to avoid reading if they want to avoid speculation spoilers:

It's been mentioned that they filmed at least one scene that was set during the "Battle of Manhattan" from the first Avengers movie. That, combined with mention in Ant-Man 2 that the Quantum Realm can enable time travel and the implication in the trailer that Ant-Man somehow wound up in the past, suggests that they're going to potentially undo what Thanos did by literally traveling backwards in time before he did it. In that scenario, Tony would be vital to develop the time travel technology, because the only other scientist who would know enough about the tech is already gone. So Tony lives, time travel becomes a thing, and the "good" future is enabled.


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Black_Crusher
01/05/19 5:19:09 PM
58
Zangulus posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.

Awesome if true. He did say they'd win in one scenario but of course nobody is probably thinking they'd have to let Thanos win first and then they could stop him later on. Great stuff!
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rogerskg1979
01/05/19 6:24:48 PM
59
Black_Crusher posted...
Zangulus posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.

Awesome if true. He did say they'd win in one scenario but of course nobody is probably thinking they'd have to let Thanos win first and then they could stop him later on. Great stuff!


Nobody? It's a pretty common war strategy to let your opponent win one battle if it means you can end up winning the war. That's all Thanos did was win one battle. He hasn't won the entire war.

Another way to think of it is in chess terms when you may sacrifice a lesser chess piece like a pawn in order to capture the opponent's queen or king. Chess was essentially designed as a game of simulated war, and all Strange did was sacrifice a pawn to set up the capturing of the king. That's long-form strategic thinking, and that is the way to win chess/war.
AllstarSniper32
01/05/19 6:31:56 PM
60
But we don't trade lives.
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Black_Crusher
01/05/19 9:48:32 PM
61
rogerskg1979 posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Zangulus posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.

Awesome if true. He did say they'd win in one scenario but of course nobody is probably thinking they'd have to let Thanos win first and then they could stop him later on. Great stuff!


Nobody? It's a pretty common war strategy to let your opponent win one battle if it means you can end up winning the war. That's all Thanos did was win one battle. He hasn't won the entire war.

Another way to think of it is in chess terms when you may sacrifice a lesser chess piece like a pawn in order to capture the opponent's queen or king. Chess was essentially designed as a game of simulated war, and all Strange did was sacrifice a pawn to set up the capturing of the king. That's long-form strategic thinking, and that is the way to win chess/war.

True but 'half of everybody dies' sounds like a lot more than one battle to me!
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ParanoidObsessive
01/06/19 2:16:30 AM
62
AllstarSniper32 posted...
But we don't trade lives.

If you get the lives back in the end, have you really traded lives?


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Lokarin
01/06/19 6:45:29 AM
63
ParanoidObsessive posted...
AllstarSniper32 posted...
But we don't trade lives.

If you get the lives back in the end, have you really traded lives?



So if you die and get a 1up - nothing has changed?
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AllstarSniper32
01/06/19 7:20:02 AM
64
ParanoidObsessive posted...
AllstarSniper32 posted...
But we don't trade lives.

If you get the lives back in the end, have you really traded lives?

They didn't trade anything, it was taken.
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Action53
01/06/19 9:49:59 AM
65
I just want to find out why Banner can't hulk out
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HillChange
01/06/19 10:38:03 AM
66
Action53 posted...
I just want to find out why Banner can't hulk out

Did you even watch Thor: Ragnarok? He can, but he's worried that if he does, he won't be able to un-Hulk.
quigonzel
01/06/19 10:52:21 AM
67
HillChange posted...
Action53 posted...
I just want to find out why Banner can't hulk out

Did you even watch Thor: Ragnarok? He can, but he's worried that if he does, he won't be able to un-Hulk.


He was literally Hulk at the beginning of the film.

The reason is because he is scared of Thanos after Thanos kicked his ass.
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rogerskg1979
01/06/19 11:31:50 AM
68
Black_Crusher posted...
rogerskg1979 posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Zangulus posted...
Black_Crusher posted...
Saw this again on Netflix last night. Big thing happened I somehow forgot about:

Why the hell did Strange give Thanos the time stone? He said they're in the endgame now or something like that.


Because After viewing millions of possibilities, the only way to stop Thanos was to let him win.

Awesome if true. He did say they'd win in one scenario but of course nobody is probably thinking they'd have to let Thanos win first and then they could stop him later on. Great stuff!


Nobody? It's a pretty common war strategy to let your opponent win one battle if it means you can end up winning the war. That's all Thanos did was win one battle. He hasn't won the entire war.

Another way to think of it is in chess terms when you may sacrifice a lesser chess piece like a pawn in order to capture the opponent's queen or king. Chess was essentially designed as a game of simulated war, and all Strange did was sacrifice a pawn to set up the capturing of the king. That's long-form strategic thinking, and that is the way to win chess/war.

True but 'half of everybody dies' sounds like a lot more than one battle to me!


It's still one battle regardless of the number of causalities. Thousands of soldiers died at the Battle of Gettysburg, but it was still only one battle out of the entire war.
rogerskg1979
01/06/19 11:34:09 AM
69
quigonzel posted...
HillChange posted...
Action53 posted...
I just want to find out why Banner can't hulk out

Did you even watch Thor: Ragnarok? He can, but he's worried that if he does, he won't be able to un-Hulk.


He was literally Hulk at the beginning of the film.

The reason is because he is scared of Thanos after Thanos kicked his ass.


This. Hulk basically has the mentality of a child. He got his ass kicked, and now he is hiding and scared to come out. Banner tried to turn into Hulk several times throughout the movie, but Hulk always refused to come out because he was literally afraid of Thanos.
AllstarSniper32
01/06/19 11:45:03 AM
70
rogerskg1979 posted...
quigonzel posted...
He was literally Hulk at the beginning of the film.

The reason is because he is scared of Thanos after Thanos kicked his ass.


This. Hulk basically has the mentality of a child. He got his ass kicked, and now he is hiding and scared to come out. Banner tried to turn into Hulk several times throughout the movie, but Hulk always refused to come out because he was literally afraid of Thanos.

Eh I don't think he's scared. It could be, but I don't think so. I mean technically, whenver Thanos hit him he should have just gotten more mad and thus stronger.

I saw a thing that said Hulk could just be tired of only being called out when people want him to fight. He already doesn't like Earth because people hate him here. Why would he want to come out to save people that hate him?

I think there's much more to it than him being scared because he doesn't look or sound scared the few times he refuses to come out.
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rogerskg1979
01/06/19 12:01:34 PM
71
AllstarSniper32 posted...
rogerskg1979 posted...
quigonzel posted...
He was literally Hulk at the beginning of the film.

The reason is because he is scared of Thanos after Thanos kicked his ass.


This. Hulk basically has the mentality of a child. He got his ass kicked, and now he is hiding and scared to come out. Banner tried to turn into Hulk several times throughout the movie, but Hulk always refused to come out because he was literally afraid of Thanos.

Eh I don't think he's scared. It could be, but I don't think so. I mean technically, whenver Thanos hit him he should have just gotten more mad and thus stronger.

I saw a thing that said Hulk could just be tired of only being called out when people want him to fight. He already doesn't like Earth because people hate him here. Why would he want to come out to save people that hate him?

I think there's much more to it than him being scared because he doesn't look or sound scared the few times he refuses to come out.


Thanos could have legitimately been hurting him, which would be why Hulk is scared. Hulk has never been legitimately hurt like that before. He's never lost a fight. It makes sense why he would scared and not know how to deal with it since he has never met a foe he couldn't beat.

Not wanting to save Earth makes no sense. He's not fighting for just the Earth. He's fighting for the entire universe. Plus, he's fighting for his Avenger friends' lives as well. Hulk is not that much of an asshole to let half the universe die unless he was scared helpless of Thanos. He's certainly not going to let his fellow Avengers die in the snap if he can help it.
ParanoidObsessive
01/06/19 1:47:12 PM
72
rogerskg1979 posted...
AllstarSniper32 posted...
rogerskg1979 posted...
This. Hulk basically has the mentality of a child. He got his ass kicked, and now he is hiding and scared to come out. Banner tried to turn into Hulk several times throughout the movie, but Hulk always refused to come out because he was literally afraid of Thanos.

Eh I don't think he's scared. It could be, but I don't think so. I mean technically, whenver Thanos hit him he should have just gotten more mad and thus stronger.

I saw a thing that said Hulk could just be tired of only being called out when people want him to fight. He already doesn't like Earth because people hate him here. Why would he want to come out to save people that hate him?

I think there's much more to it than him being scared because he doesn't look or sound scared the few times he refuses to come out.

Thanos could have legitimately been hurting him, which would be why Hulk is scared. Hulk has never been legitimately hurt like that before. He's never lost a fight. It makes sense why he would scared and not know how to deal with it since he has never met a foe he couldn't beat.

Not wanting to save Earth makes no sense. He's not fighting for just the Earth. He's fighting for the entire universe. Plus, he's fighting for his Avenger friends' lives as well. Hulk is not that much of an asshole to let half the universe die unless he was scared helpless of Thanos. He's certainly not going to let his fellow Avengers die in the snap if he can help it.

I WISH it was the scared thing. It actually makes a ton of sense, and adds a bit of depth to the character. And actually works with the dynamics of how the Hulk operates - it's hard to get angry if you're terrified. Then the arc for Banner is to somehow convince the Hulk to get so angry he's not scared anymore, thus reaching full power (possibly using the classic Hulk quote, "The angrier Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets!").

But the Russos flat out said in an interview it was actually the Hulk being kind of pissed that Banner only lets him out to fight, and that Hulk was happy where he was in Ragnarok and is pissed that Banner took him away from it, so he's basically just sulking. Which is kind of stupid. And doesn't even necessarily fit with what we saw in the movie (ie, he was willing to come out to fight Thanos in the beginning, and didn't start sulking until after he got his ass beat).


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DANTE20XX
01/06/19 1:57:21 PM
73
ParanoidObsessive posted...
I WISH it was the scared thing. It actually makes a ton of sense, and adds a bit of depth to the character.

No that's horrible and adds nothing of importance. He's definitely not scared. The more likely theory is Hulk does not want to just be "used" anymore like he has in the past. That is far more close to the truth. He's tired of Banner pushing him around so to speak.

Come fight my battles -> NO!

Wouldn't call that sulking either, he's just annoyed and he has nothing to gain from fighting. Wants Banner to do things on his own and stop relying on him like some sort of pet to do his bidding. Makes perfect sense to me, they can't be totally separate from each other so they have to work together.

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rogerskg1979
01/06/19 2:11:43 PM
74
ParanoidObsessive posted...
And doesn't even necessarily fit with what we saw in the movie (ie, he was willing to come out to fight Thanos in the beginning, and didn't start sulking until after he got his ass beat).


Yeah, that does stick out that Hulk was willing to fight at the beginning of the movie, and only started acting up after he lost to Thanos. Plus, I really doubt Hulk would let his quarrel with Banner interfere when the entire universe is at stake. He didn't let it interfere at the end of Ragnarok when he was needed to fight Hela. It legitimately seems like Hulk is just so scared of Thanos that he cannot get angry anymore. His fear is overpowering his anger.
ParanoidObsessive
01/06/19 2:13:25 PM
75
DANTE20XX posted...
No that's horrible and adds nothing of importance. He's definitely not scared.

Ehh, I'd say it adds far more than "Grr, Hulk's feelings hurt". A massive engine of destruction powered by pure rage finally meets a force it can't pummel into submission. It makes perfect sense that he might be confused and scared, and thus weak. It's absolutely how I and most people I know interpreted those scenes in the movie first time through.

Plus, Banner himself is terrified of Thanos, and that alone makes a strong argument why HE can't muster up enough anger to call up the Hulk in the first place.

It's not as if this isn't something that's been addressed in the comics before, either.



DANTE20XX posted...
The more likely theory is Hulk does not want to just be "used" anymore like he has in the past. That is far more close to the truth

It's not even a theory at this point, it's literally what the directors of the film said is the case.

I'm just saying I find it a weak premise and wish they'd gone the alternate route. But at this point I don't see them completely pulling a 180 next movie, so we're basically stuck with "Hulk take ball go home".



DANTE20XX posted...
Wouldn't call that sulking either

That is literally and exactly what it is.

He's essentially a child throwing a tantrum because he's not allowed to get his own way.


---
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DANTE20XX
01/06/19 2:16:13 PM
76
ParanoidObsessive posted...
"Grr, Hulk's feelings hurt".

No...because now we see he DOES have feelings. That's a huge thing to me about his character we don't see much.
ParanoidObsessive posted...
He's essentially a child throwing a tantrum because he's not allowed to get his own way.

You make it sound as if he literally ever has gotten his way. He's a slave when you think of it. Doesn't have a body of his own and only gets called out to fight something. Like...ok, childish that he wishes to have some say in what he does and does not do.
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quigonzel
01/06/19 2:33:27 PM
77
Don't care what the Russos say, I'm sticking with Hulk got the fucksmack laid down upon him and is hiding because he's scared.
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Veedrock-
01/06/19 2:50:30 PM
78
quigonzel posted...
Don't care what the Russos say

Agreed, a lot of what they've said in interviews has hurt the movie and lore.
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GanonsSpirit
01/06/19 3:13:07 PM
79
The "Hulk is butthurt" explaination doesn't make sense because at the end of Ragnorok Banner said he probably wouldn't be able to change back if he went Hulk again. So why would Hulk be mad about only coming out to fight when he had complete, permanent control?

To be honest it's kinda dumb that Hulk even has a choice, he comes out when Banner gets angry.
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rogerskg1979
01/06/19 3:25:44 PM
80
quigonzel posted...
Don't care what the Russos say, I'm sticking with Hulk got the fucksmack laid down upon him and is hiding because he's scared.


The issue with that is that the Russos are also the directors of Endgame, so when Hulk inevitably returns in Endgame, the Russos are going to be using their own reason for his return.

Right now what the Russos say is easy to ignore since it's not actually in the movie, but once it becomes part of Endgame, it's not going to be possible to ignore it any longer.
streamofthesky
01/06/19 3:28:55 PM
81
The whole Hulk story line was probably the worst part of an otherwise great movie and I hope it doesn't get much screen time to resolve in the next movie.

The only two good outcomes to make the cringy and dull subplot "worth it" is if either: a) Bruce tries to help as just himself even though it's suicide and Hulk realizes that if Bruce dies, so does Hulk, and he "grows up" or b) some hilarious scene of Bruce trying his hardest to deliberately piss off Hulk to get him to come out (ideally for it to fail, only for Hulk to come out anyway once Bruce has given up because "I want to, now" in a trolling kind of fashion)
rogerskg1979
01/06/19 3:37:03 PM
82
It's too bad that Black Widow didn't disintegrate in the snap. If that had happened, I could see that being what causes Hulk to become angry enough to emerge once again.
Veedrock-
01/06/19 4:38:58 PM
83
streamofthesky posted...
Bruce tries to help as just himself even though it's suicide and Hulk realizes that if Bruce dies, so does Hulk,

It was already suicide in IW. Plus Banner has attempted suicide before Avengers 1, which Hulk stopped.
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AllstarSniper32
01/11/19 1:08:03 AM
84
Going back to the Hulk being scared thing, I could see him being scared of Thanos, but there's no reason for him to be scared when it's just the children of Thanos during those fights.
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If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking systems, there would be a revolution before morning - Andrew Jackson
AllstarSniper32
01/11/19 10:16:01 AM
85
Also, I love Mantis! That deserved to bump the topic!
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If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking systems, there would be a revolution before morning - Andrew Jackson
ernieforss
01/11/19 11:40:13 AM
86
streamofthesky posted...
The whole Hulk story line was probably the worst part of an otherwise great movie and I hope it doesn't get much screen time to resolve in the next movie.

The only two good outcomes to make the cringy and dull subplot "worth it" is if either: a) Bruce tries to help as just himself even though it's suicide and Hulk realizes that if Bruce dies, so does Hulk, and he "grows up" or b) some hilarious scene of Bruce trying his hardest to deliberately piss off Hulk to get him to come out (ideally for it to fail, only for Hulk to come out anyway once Bruce has given up because "I want to, now" in a trolling kind of fashion)


this might be spoilers but people think hulk was loki the whole time. that's the reason why he didn't want to fight because he wasn't as powerful as hulk.
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