Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 210: HQ of the War on Christmas

(+) Yeah! (+)

I'm seeing several people who know Mattis saying that he was saying even as recently as early this month that he wouldn't leave unless Trump fired him. Definitely possible he changed his mind, but I don't think it's entirely clear that he resigned of his own volition.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Mattis wasn't fired, he resigned:

https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1075884490361397248

Just to reiterate, this is an egregiously bad thing for the US. He appears to have resigned in protest over a whole swath of issues, but it is likely Syria that pushed him over the top.

He won't get anyone a tenth as competent as Mattis, and he'll likely appoint a lackey that didn't have the strength of character Mattis does.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I'm seeing several people who know Mattis saying that he was saying even as recently as early this month that he wouldn't leave unless Trump fired him. Definitely possible he changed his mind, but I don't think it's entirely clear that he resigned of his own volition.

It is possible, but in his letter he is basically saying "you are wrong how you are handling NATO you are wrong how you treat our allies you are wrong how you treat Russia you are wrong how you treat China you are wrong about Syria". If he was fired, I think Mattis would be upfront about that considering how critical he was in his letter.
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https://twitter.com/M_McDonough/status/1075851290075389954

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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Leaving Syria and Afghanistan on their own isn't a necessarily bad thing. It's the fact that there is zero plan, wasn't discussed with any of our allies, and was determined by one crazy motherfucker that's the issue.
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Woohoo the murderer is out. May the heretic and devil Mattis burn in hell.
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Yikes that Mattis resignation letter is troubling and ominous.

And I thought the day was already crazy back when it was "only" the FinCEN stuff, the shutdown being back on, the stock market cratering, and Whitaker.

Which hasn't been noted here yet, but DOJ Ethics Officials concluded that Whitaker should recuse from the Mueller investigation but Whitaker's advisors told him not to and so he hasn't. Made more crazy that the initial reporting from WaPo was that Whitaker was found to not need to recuse and had to issue a correction when the official who told them that retracted his account and another senior official told them what was up. Hell, WaPo's article link still reflects the "pre-correction" version.

That said, DOJ has also said that while Whitaker will now get briefings on Mueller's investigation (he hadn't previously) day-to-day stuff is being left to Rosenstein. But given both the history of the administration both in general and literally this story hard not to still be skeptical.
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https://twitter.com/zeddary/status/1075789286434312192?s=21
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I told you so.

in other words: "called it. vindicated. etc."

it's scary how much trump resembles ulti.
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https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Proudly donated!
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Honestly, if Trump voters want to spend their money on a pointless wall, rather than mooching off the tax dollars of the majority that didn't vote for the wall, then I'm fine with that.
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The wall is actively bad, not just a colossal waste of money (disrupts wildlife, forces use of eminent domain for no good reason, etc)
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The wall is actively bad, not just a colossal waste of money (disrupts wildlife, forces use of eminent domain for no good reason, etc)

Oh, I'M aware. But at least if we're going to waste our money on some frivolous bullshit that actively damages our country, I'd rather not have to pay for it out of my own pocket. They want to fuck up the country, they can pay for it themselves.
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Not even sure why you're humoring an obvious scam tbqh!
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xp1337 posted...

Not even sure why you're humoring an obvious scam tbqh!

That too!
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At worst it is a scam, at best you are giving money to the government to do w/e with it effectively taxing yourself for no reason or guarantees where it will actually go. Man people are just straight up stupid with their money.
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Ulti_PCA posted...

https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Proudly donated!

It seriously has 9 million raised? Lol
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9 million dollars sure could help a lot of disabled or homeless Veterans, and there'd be a tangible, measurable benefit.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

9 million dollars sure could help a lot of disabled or homeless Veterans, and there'd be a tangible, measurable benefit.

lmao as if people who want to #buildthewall care about helping literally anyone
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https://www.gofundme.com/ladders-to-get-over-trump039s-wall

LMFAO

That said these are joke gofundmes and everyone knows they will be refunded.
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Nothing says a divided nation like a literal wall being built to keep out a group of people that America has been messing over since before the civil war. I see why the Germans saw Mexico is a potential ally back in WWI & 2.
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Umitencho posted...

Nothing says a divided nation like a literal wall being built to keep out a group of people that America has been messing over since before the civil war. I see why the Germans saw Mexico is a potential ally back in WWI & 2.

This post doesn't make a lot of sense.
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If you're braindead, sure
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this is extremely funny

https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1075913486969069568?s=21

anyone donating to this gofundme is so fucking dumb
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https://twitter.com/stevehofstetter/status/1075776357613719557?s=21
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Corrik posted...

Umitencho posted...

Nothing says a divided nation like a literal wall being built to keep out a group of people that America has been messing over since before the civil war. I see why the Germans saw Mexico is a potential ally back in WWI & 2.

This post doesn't make a lot of sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War
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Umitencho posted...

Corrik posted...

Umitencho posted...

Nothing says a divided nation like a literal wall being built to keep out a group of people that America has been messing over since before the civil war. I see why the Germans saw Mexico is a potential ally back in WWI & 2.

This post doesn't make a lot of sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican%E2%80%93American_War

It still makes zero sense.

How does that point to a "divided nation"?
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https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1075765222198018048

JFC, he pulled out of Syria because Ergodan told him that they were going to attack our Kurdish allies

What a fucking message to send to anyone else who still trusts us
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I just checked and the gofundme wall is at 10M with 165k donors. An average donation of $60k.

Truly a grassroots movement!
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I just checked and the gofundme wall is at 10M with 165k donors. An average donation of $60k.

Truly a grassroots movement!

This is a bad look.
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I am quite tired and I apologize.
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I mean the guy's just going to run off with all that wall money anyway right

Paratroopa1 posted...

I mean the guy's just going to run off with all that wall money anyway right

Pretty sure he only gets the money if they reach the goal.
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178,051 donors
10,840,340 raised

Average donation is $60.88.

Ladders
2767 donors
61,951 raised

Average donation is $22.39
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Ah okay, it's not a flexible funding thing

TheRock1525 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I mean the guy's just going to run off with all that wall money anyway right

Pretty sure he only gets the money if they reach the goal.

That's on Kickstarter. Go fund me doesn't require the goal to be met.

Edit:

Reaching your goal is not required. With GoFundMe, you keep each and every donation you receive. Your campaign will be able to accept donations even after your goal is reached. Once the goal is reached, the progress meter on your campaign will show that you have received more than your goal amount.

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Ah okay, it is a flexible funding thing

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/JenGriffinFNC/status/1075765222198018048

JFC, he pulled out of Syria because Ergodan told him that they were going to attack our Kurdish allies

What a fucking message to send to anyone else who still trusts us

You do realize Turkey is a bigger ally than the Kurds ever will be right?

It seems pretty contradicting to talk about trust when saying we should betray an ally on the other side as reasoning.

Turkey views the pkk or whatever as terrorists. We supported them in a conflict of our interest vs ISIS and have never had an interest in taking Syria from Bashar, thus what does our role there continue to even serve?

Turkey and the Kurds is between them. We can't choose a side there with the Kurds, especially when there is nothing to be gained for us to do so.
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The Kurds are our allies (and Erdogan, though yes, an unfortunately necessary ally, is a piece of shit). They are not terrorists.

If Germany was going to roll tanks into France we wouldn't be like "oh yeah cool guys, you do whatever!"
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the real question is: why the fuck would you want erdogan to be your ally? literally a fascist dictator.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

If Germany was going to roll tanks into France we wouldn't be like "oh yeah cool guys, you do whatever!"

History says otherwise <_<
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

the real question is: why the fuck would you want erdogan to be your ally? literally a fascist dictator.

You just answered your own question, given that the "you" in this situation is trump
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Well honestly were kind of bound to Erdogan through NATO

Trump certainly doesnt care about shitting on other NATO partners though
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/politics/trump-syria-afghanistan-us-military/index.html

We will be decades recovering from this presidency. (Which is, of course, exactly what Russia wanted.)
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It's a truly dark day. Cannot express enough disgust for any filth defending these actions as they've unfolded. Just an absolute disgrace.
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So you guys preferred being in Syria and afganistan for 100 years?
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So you would give up the fight against the Taliban and Isis because it is taking too long?
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Corrik posted...

So you guys preferred being in Syria and afganistan for 100 years?

I think there are better ways to withdraw from the Middle East that do not a) stab our allies in the back, b) empower truly awful people and regimes in the region, and c) accomplish Russia's foreign policy objectives for them.
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Not_an_Owl posted...

Corrik posted...

So you guys preferred being in Syria and afganistan for 100 years?

I think there are better ways to withdraw from the Middle East that do not a) stab our allies in the back, b) empower truly awful people and regimes in the region, and c) accomplish Russia's foreign policy objectives for them.

Ding ding ding

It's like corrik has never heard of the word "plan"

Also note how he's changed his position to exactly match trump's. Incredible
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Still think it is funny how I supposedly changed what I have always said. But, can't expect people to make sense here when flinging their bullshit.

1. Our allies are not stabbed in the back. Unless we go to conventional war with Russia, Syria, and Turkey, there is no way there will ever be an end to the conflict.

Supporting a group a NATO ally considers a terrorist group while the threat we were supporting them for, ISIS, has been defeated is contradictory to use as betraying an ally. Which is more important? Betraying a NATO ally or a marginal group in Syria that has very little to offer outside of the common goal we have already accomplished with them?

2. We are allies with Turkey if that is who you are referring to. Have you been unaware of that for however many years Turkey has been in NATO? Or are you referring to Russia and Syria? We were never in a war with them. Nor have we ever established a goal of regime change in the area. If you want a war with Russia, Iran, and Syria, just outright say it.

Many Trump supporters, including myself, were against war with Russia over Syria and dinged Hillary over her no fly zone which would have led to it.

Once we established a red line and never carried out the threats regarding it to capitulate to getting an Iran deal done, our bluff was called there.

3. Again if you want a war with Russia just outright say it. Just because us leaving is a good thing for Russia does not mean it is not a good thing for us also. Being boxed into having to do whatever infuriates another nation is more being a puppet then doing what is right for yourself. ISIS has been defeated. We should leave. If Bashar commits genocide, we always can come back to topple that regime. We don't need to be there when our objectives are accomplished and when we were working with groups our allies consider terrorists.

Afghanistan we should have left already also. Our goal was to topple their government and take away their military projection.

We will never completely eradicate every member of ISIS and the Taliban unless we are okay with genocide. In which however many other groups will spring up.

The end game where we "win" according to you guys does not exist.

Will Taliban topple the Afghanistan government once we leave? Maybe. All we could do was topple them, destroy their military projection, and try to train the new group for how to protect themselves. At the end of the day, if the people of Afghanistan are unable or unwilling to defend their lands, we cannot do it for them indefinitely.
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