Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1323

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charmander6000
01/11/19 9:58:06 AM
457
Yeah, on top of 2001 being one of the best years in gaming Melee was one of those games that became more popular with age. Even in 2004 there were half a dozen games that were able to keep up with it in its division.
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Congratulations to Advokaiser for winning the guru contest.
_Dog_
01/11/19 2:15:52 PM
458
@Yuri_LowelI posted...
NeoElfboy posted...
Yuri_LowelI posted...
Either way lets be real. As much hype smash got. Its not goty material. Its jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. Its a party fighter. Thats the bottom line.


To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.


Melee was just another good party game in 2001. It want until the mid to late GC era that melee became a gOtg type game.

I agree it was one of my most played games but I didnt truly appreciate melee until 2-3 years after and I appreciated it more after I played brawl which was hot fucking garbage.

Brawl did a lot of things better than Melee, like not having waved ashes and l-cancels! Wonderful game and deserved its sales.

Have at me.
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Yuri_LowelI
01/11/19 2:46:11 PM
459
_Dog_ posted...
@Yuri_LowelI posted...
NeoElfboy posted...
Yuri_LowelI posted...
Either way lets be real. As much hype smash got. Its not goty material. Its jyst a really good smash game. Neither brawl or melee or 4 won any goty or barely any. Its a party fighter. Thats the bottom line.


To be honest Melee not winning much GotY looks really stupid in hindsight, it's without a doubt one of the biggest games from that era, and easily has the longest reach of any GameCube game. I say this as someone who isn't even that big a fan of the game relatively.

The major western media outlets just hate handing out GotY awards to anything Japanese not named Zelda. Been this way pretty much since the turn of the century.


Melee was just another good party game in 2001. It want until the mid to late GC era that melee became a gOtg type game.

I agree it was one of my most played games but I didnt truly appreciate melee until 2-3 years after and I appreciated it more after I played brawl which was hot fucking garbage.

Brawl did a lot of things better than Melee, like not having waved ashes and l-cancels! Wonderful game and deserved its sales.

Have at me.


Well thats your *slips* opinion. I hated not having those things being a pretty high level melee player myself. Even still I gave it a go and disliked it. Even smash 4 and ultimate are far better as they had more balance and you could play it more competitively.

Brawl had a decent single player but thats about it. Only the original is worse and thats only because that game is old and archaic. Part of me would still play the older game ahead of new game.

Brawl is just an irrelevant game now. No one cares about it or plays it competitively anywhere.
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swirIdude
01/11/19 2:50:19 PM
460
Why call out L-Cancels? That's a really simple thing to learn. You don't need to be a pro to tap a button right before hitting the ground.
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Advokaiser picked Cloud in Guru and rained on my bracket.
At least I finished 20th overall!
snake_5036
01/11/19 3:10:23 PM
461
swirIdude posted...
Why call out L-Cancels? That's a really simple thing to learn. You don't need to be a pro to tap a button right before hitting the ground.

You do need to be a pro to hit L before touching the ground for every single aerial move you ever throw out lest you get 3 more frames of lag and punished in those extra frames, or you barely miss a punish on somebody you just hit because you missed the input for l cancelling and couldn't reach them in time

L Canceling is one of the stupider Melee things imo
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Lopen
01/11/19 3:18:43 PM
462
L canceling is just unnecessary overhead in inputs while playing the game at a high level for no real reason. It'd be different if there was a reason to like, not do it, but yeah.

Like if in Street Fighter II there was a mechanic to hit I dunno, HP + LK just after special move recovery to gain a bit of recovery frames, sure you could probably learn how to do it reliably, but I can't imagine people would think these are actually good mechanics.
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redrocket
01/11/19 4:22:12 PM
463
L canceling is bad for the same reason that combat damage using the stack was bad in Magic.
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Lopen
01/11/19 5:39:12 PM
464
Not a bad comparison. Similar burden of knowledge involved. Needlessly complicating a procedure that should be intuitive. I'd mark L-canceling as worse just because it's more obnoxious to manage once you get how to do it, unlike the combat damage stack which doesn't even matter a lot of the time unless you're specifically out to abuse it (which granted with all the sacrifice effects and whatnot that isn't exactly a rare event), but yeah.
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No problem!
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red sox 777
01/11/19 5:46:46 PM
465
L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy. It's not interesting from a game theory perspective but most things in video games are not interesting in that sense.

I think people wouldn't mind not having L-Canceling in Brawl if it defaulted to the regular lag being the same as L-Canceled lag. Instead, they made the regular lag longer than the non-L-Canceled lag in Melee, which just makes the game slower.
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Congratulations to DP Oblivion in the Guru Contest!
Lopen
01/11/19 5:48:45 PM
466
red sox 777 posted...
L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy.


Muddling your game with pointless crap just to make people who take the time to learn the crap feel better about themselves is poor design.
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Advokaiser
01/11/19 8:29:16 PM
467
To be fair, Street Fighter (at least III from what I've played) has a parry mechanic, which can be somewhat comparable to something well-timed as L-Canceling. Heck, even Smash Ultimate has it.

Smash 64 has L-Canceling as well.
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Lopen
01/11/19 8:30:43 PM
468
The big difference is parrying is a meaningful tactical choice not "do this upkeep maneuver as a cost for all your jumps or be at a disadvantage"
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No problem!
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Advokaiser
01/11/19 10:47:52 PM
469
But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.
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LusterSoldier
01/12/19 12:00:29 AM
470
Weird, not sure why Allen did a Final Final Vote poll today. Still nice to have, though.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-
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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
Popular at school, but not as cool as Advokaiser, Guru Champ!
xp1337
01/12/19 12:01:03 AM
471
LusterSoldier posted...
Weird, not sure why Allen did a Final Final Vote poll today

so we could settle it in smash
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NowItsAngeTime
01/12/19 12:01:14 AM
472
because fuck 3 ways
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Congrats Advokaiser for believing in Cloud in the Characters 2018 Guru
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LeonhartFour
01/12/19 12:01:29 AM
473
_SecretSquirrel
01/12/19 12:03:46 AM
474
Eh, it's not like there's anything better to run for PotD today.
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LeonhartFour
01/12/19 12:06:26 AM
475
I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX
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LusterSoldier
01/12/19 12:10:27 AM
476
Oh wow, a drop of nearly 7% on the second update of this poll.
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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
Popular at school, but not as cool as Advokaiser, Guru Champ!
LeonhartFour
01/12/19 12:12:07 AM
477
That Smash board vote coupled with the GoW board vote is something else
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xp1337
01/12/19 12:15:12 AM
478
LeonhartFour posted...
and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

it's aqua's series now
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xp1337: Don't you wish there was a spell-checker that told you when you a word out?
swirIdude
01/12/19 12:22:28 AM
479
xp1337 posted...
LeonhartFour posted...
and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX

it's aqua's series now


If you ignore the part where KOS-MOS shot her up worse than she did TheStupidRaptor, sure.
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Advokaiser picked Cloud in Guru and rained on my bracket.
At least I finished 20th overall!
LusterSoldier
01/12/19 12:23:21 AM
480
LeonhartFour posted...
I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to


The poll for January 14th is going to be "Which scheduled January release are you most looking forward to?", so I guess this likely means a System of the Year poll tomorrow.
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Luster Soldier --- ~Shield Bearer~ | ~Data Analyst~
Popular at school, but not as cool as Advokaiser, Guru Champ!
Yuri_LowelI
01/12/19 1:56:49 AM
481
Lopen posted...
red sox 777 posted...
L-Canceling rewards players who are willing to put in the time and work to learn to perform it, which gives these players a feeling of superiority, which makes them happy.


Muddling your game with pointless crap just to make people who take the time to learn the crap feel better about themselves is poor design.


Or you just suck. Saying something that is poor design because youre too shit to master it doesnt make it pointless. Youre probably one of those gamers who plays every game on the easiest difficulty settings.
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Yuri_LowelI
01/12/19 1:58:32 AM
482
LeonhartFour posted...
I guess he could ask what January or 2019 games we're most looking forward to

and if KH3 dominates that poll I will be even more confused as to why Sora and Riku sucked so badly in CBX


It wont dominate. RE2 will be a close second.
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Yuri_LowelI
01/12/19 2:15:45 AM
483
America is the region which is heavy on smash. God of war is even 50/50 in friggin Japan. Thats how beastly that game is.
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LargeLongSword
01/12/19 2:49:42 AM
484
Just came back from vacation, good to see Cloud $trife winning so many matchs this contest without having FFVIIR out yet.
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LeonhartFour
01/12/19 4:30:15 AM
485
Yuri_LowelI posted...
Youre probably one of those gamers who plays every game on the easiest difficulty settings.


do you think saying things like this is actually beneficial to your argument
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redrocket
01/12/19 5:01:48 AM
486
Advokaiser posted...
But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.


There is a huge difference you are failing to grasp.

There is never a reason not to L cancel in Melee. Failing to do so is simply incorrect play. This means it is not in anyway a meaningful strategic decision by the player, so it adds zero strategic depth to the game. It is literally, as Lopen said, just extra input for the sake of extra input, for something as basic as jumping. To bring in a Brawl related analogy, it would be like if anytime your character ran further than 1/4 the length of the screen, you had to tap a button or they would automatically trip. Would anyone defend a mechanic like that?

Meanwhile, parrying is an active reaction to something your opponent is doing. You have to choose the correct input to respond to your opponent, and most importantly, choose whether or not parrying is the correct response at any given time. This adds strategic depth to the game.
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It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
redrocket
01/12/19 5:08:18 AM
487
Does anyone think BotW only gets 55% here?

Also, GoW only got 43.4% on Smash yesterday LFF confirmed.
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It's like paying for bubble wrap. -transience on Final Fantasy: All the Bravest
Yuri_LowelI
01/12/19 6:23:32 AM
488
redrocket posted...
Does anyone think BotW only gets 55% here?

Also, GoW only got 43.4% on Smash yesterday LFF confirmed.


No way

BOTW is crushing smash In a poll let alone GoW . Not up for debate. Look at last years poll. Had much stronger games.

Also I think were underrating GoW and overrating smash.

Coming from someone whos played smash a lot and like it(100% adventure and gotten95 % of challenges) Its not even on the same stratosphere as GoW and BOTW. Those are genuine GOTD calibur ganes. Ultimate is just a pretty solid party fighter with tons of cool characters. No one will remember this game in 10 years. Brawl is forgotten now. Ultimate will be the same. Only Melee will be fondly remembered and whatever the latest smash is at the time.
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Yuri_LowelI
01/12/19 6:31:36 AM
489
redrocket posted...
Advokaiser posted...
But what happens when someone knows how to parry your attacks and you don't? You're also at a disadvantage regardless.

That's when you step up your game and learn how to parry, or in this case, how to L-Cancel, and it's just about pressing a single button at the right time.


There is a huge difference you are failing to grasp.

There is never a reason not to L cancel in Melee. Failing to do so is simply incorrect play. This means it is not in anyway a meaningful strategic decision by the player, so it adds zero strategic depth to the game. It is literally, as Lopen said, just extra input for the sake of extra input, for something as basic as jumping. To bring in a Brawl related analogy, it would be like if anytime your character ran further than 1/4 the length of the screen, you had to tap a button or they would automatically trip. Would anyone defend a mechanic like that?

Meanwhile, parrying is an active reaction to something your opponent is doing. You have to choose the correct input to respond to your opponent, and most importantly, choose whether or not parrying is the correct response at any given time. This adds strategic depth to the game.


L cancelling makes gameplay faster. Thus requiring faster reflexes making quicker decisions and using a mechanic to become better at the game. No one said parrying wasnt important. But with how many unavoidable attacjs and stuns there are in future smash partying is a more worthwhile mechanic than l cancelling in modern games.

Also l cancelling is required in other modes to get the best scores for things like home run and TT.

To say its pointless is like saying fast ULtimates in ninja garden are useless because you can bypass time by pressing buttons st the right time.

Melee is unique in that way. And thats why it will outlast every smash game.
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ShatteredElysium
01/12/19 8:04:42 AM
490
I've never played a smash game but from what has been described in this topic L-canceling sounds stupid. It sounds like additional button input for the sake of it.

Situational canceling is fine in games, some even have it eat special gauges to do so. Mandatory canceling every time you do something as basic as jumping is silly. If people say it makes it flow quicker/better then how about just have the default jump be at l-cancel speed without having to actually cancel.
LiquidOshawott
01/12/19 8:47:24 AM
491
These GOTY polls wouldnt necessarily reflect what a contest picture would look like

If these two faced off in a contest I think Ultimate does a lot better
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HaRRicH
01/12/19 9:04:44 AM
492
L-Cancelling is an unnecessary mechanic that doesn't compare to parrying. Next.
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Advokaiser
01/12/19 10:34:19 AM
493
People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!
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The_Ctes
01/12/19 10:50:52 AM
494
We've also had years without them though.

I'd expect Smash to win by quite a bit more in a contest setting.
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Team Rocket Elite
01/12/19 11:22:26 AM
495
Advokaiser posted...
People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!


This is only the third one ever.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3365-best-of-2008-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6576-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-best-of-2018-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

And sometimes we don't get it when we really should:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5383-best-of-2013-game-of-the-year-final
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Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Contest!
ShatteredElysium
01/12/19 11:42:00 AM
496
Standings have prize placements now. Hurrah for 3rd place

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/features/cbx_stats

Just gotta wait to be contacted I guess
Team Rocket Elite
01/12/19 11:43:16 AM
497
Congrats!
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Link isn't the only one who kicks ass.
Congrats to Advokaiser for winning the CBX Guru Contest!
Advokaiser
01/12/19 1:45:54 PM
498
Team Rocket Elite posted...
Advokaiser posted...
People didn't expect a GoW/Smash final poll? We have had multiple of those in the past!


This is only the third one ever.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3365-best-of-2008-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/6576-best-of-2016-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7473-best-of-2018-game-of-the-year-final-final-vote

And sometimes we don't get it when we really should:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/5383-best-of-2013-game-of-the-year-final


Huh... For some reason those were the ones that came to mind, but somehow I just assumed there were more.

Either way, I also thought there was a good chance for this Final, Final vote.
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_Dog_
01/12/19 1:49:24 PM
500
Play Brawl!
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