Board 8 > *~~SephG ranks the classic 2D console platformers~~*

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Page List: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 1:05:56 PM
#1:


At last, after two years of work and a lifetime of gaming, I've beaten all of the vaunted platforming series from the NES/SNES/Genesis generation. Some of you may have been following various topics I've made in the middle of the playthroughs and should be familiar with my goals for this. But for those who aren't, a little background:

I have been playing video games my entire life. I grew up with a NES and Genesis, but it really wasn't until the PlayStation that I found a true "passion" for gaming (thank you, Final Fantasy VII [the game, not the user]). I still do have great memories of the Mario games, the Sonics I played on Genesis, and the Donkey Kong Countries that I'd co-op with my neighbor Patrick on his Super Nintendo. However, I had never actually beaten a single one of them--and I wanted to do something about that.

Another thing about me is that, at age 30, I don't really have the time to dedicate to long playthroughs. That's what makes this project so perfect--I get to chip away at the games in short bursts without feeling rushed or like I am wasting my time.

I figured it would be fun to rank these from this point of view, knowing that I didn't really have much nostalgia for any of these games that could potentially cloud my judgement (save one of them, which I will explain in my write-up). I'm hoping my reviews can be more objective than most.

The games
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2 [US]
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest
Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!

The caveats
Some things I should point out before a bunch of people begin to question my decisions:

-All of these games were played on their original consoles, with the exception of the NES Mario games. I played these using Super Mario All-Stars on the SNES for the sake of the save functionality
-I chose these 3 series because they are the standard bearers for all 2D platforming games. I know there are others that could have been included, but these are the ones that I consistently see praised as being the best of all time.
-One specific exclusion I made were the Kirby games. Firstly, I decided to limit the list to console releases only, and Kirby is first and foremost a Game Boy series. Secondly, as I mentioned above, I wanted to see for myself what the greatest platformer of this era was--and I almost never see any Kirby games mentioned in the same breath as some of these.
-I did not include the 8-bit Sonic games (because they aren't really part of the mainline series), Sonic CD (because I do not own a Sega CD), or the Lost Levels (because fuck that)
-Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles were attached together and ergo counted as one game, as they rightfully should be

The tiers
I found myself struggling with the tiers because, to be fair, these are some of the most renowned video games ever created, so they are certainly going to skew toward the positive end. Once we get into "Excellent" territory, we're almost splitting hairs--but I think there are important distinctions between those tiers that I can hopefully articulate in the write-ups.

Not good: 1 game
Fine: 1 game
Great: 3 games
Excellent: 2 games
Spectacular: 2 games
All-timers: 2 games

Let's see if anyone can guess the #11 game--the worst of the lot and only game on the list that I do not consider to be worth the time!
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FBike1
12/12/18 1:07:44 PM
#2:


It better be Mario 2 Doki Panic.

just kidding it's gonna be dkc2 isn't it
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Bartzyx
12/12/18 1:53:23 PM
#3:


Yoshi's Island
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OliviaTremor
12/12/18 1:58:56 PM
#4:


Probably DKC3 but I would personally go with the original SMB. All of those games are good imo but the original SMB levels feel super repetitive as you go on.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 2:44:15 PM
#5:


#11. Sonic the Hedgehog
https://i.redd.it/3u0tmp9iag321.jpg

Green Hill Zone may be the most perfect platforming level ever created. Its bright, vibrant, surreal, and encourages you to explore and figure out the mechanics. It also serves as the introduction to the Platonic ideal of Sonic--a supremely fast-paced, frenetic platformer that satisfies a generation of ADHD children who no longer have the patience for a boring, methodical game like Super Mario Bros. Playing through it is pure bliss.

Its just too bad the rest of Sonic 1 isnt even remotely as fun as Green Hill. I played this game as a kid, but I never owned it and therefore never really got through more than the first few zones. I was more accustomed to Sonic 2 and 3, so that made Sonic 1 particularly jarring to play 20 years later. The game is janky, cheap, and punishes speed--the very element that makes Green Hill so amazing. The lack of a spin-dash is really a massive deterrent to enjoying the experience, since any time you get hit (often by cheap offscreen enemies) you have to s.l.o.w.l.y. regain momentum to get things going again--until you smash into the next enemy.

Had Sonic 2 and 3 not improved the gameplay dramatically, I think wed be looking at the original Sonic as a rather generic attempt for Sega to establish a mascot platformer--a legacy as unimpressive as Alex Kidd or Bubsy. But because we must live in context, Sonic is often wrongly respected for breaking the mold and sparking the first serious challenge to Marios platforming hegemony. The truth of the matter is that Sonic is a frustrating mess of a game that really does only stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Alex Kidd and Bubsy, but we falsely treat it as seeding some kind of revolution that didnt really happen until its sequel.

Not good
11. Sonic the Hedgehog

Fine
10.

Great
9.
8.
7.

Excellent
6.
5.

Spectacular
4.
3.

All-timers
2.
1.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 2:48:17 PM
#6:


P.S. I've heard that some of the mechanics have been updated in the Sonic mobile port, and supposedly it improves the game greatly. But remember--these are reviews of the original games!
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Bartzyx
12/12/18 3:07:17 PM
#7:


Dammit, I was going to guess Sonic 1 because that's where I would rank it but thought you might have liked it more.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 3:24:24 PM
#8:


probably gonna tackle one of these a day
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Jakyl25
12/12/18 3:28:30 PM
#9:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
The truth of the matter is that Sonic is a frustrating mess of a game that really does only stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Alex Kidd and Bubsy, but we falsely treat it as seeding some kind of revolution that didnt really happen until its sequel.


Isnt that kind of what seeding implies?
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Jakyl25
12/12/18 3:32:42 PM
#10:


Also why are you besmirching Alex Kidd when there are so many more obvious targets?

https://gamefaqs.akamaized.net/box/2/7/7/21277_front.jpg
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 3:40:13 PM
#11:


Jakyl25 posted...
Nelson_Mandela posted...
The truth of the matter is that Sonic is a frustrating mess of a game that really does only stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Alex Kidd and Bubsy, but we falsely treat it as seeding some kind of revolution that didnt really happen until its sequel.


Isnt that kind of what seeding implies?

Sonic 1 offered nothing to move the genre forward and all of the "game-changing" innovations came in the sequels. Sonic 2 succeeded despite working off of a flawed baseline.
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Jakyl25
12/12/18 3:43:35 PM
#12:


Also I assure you that Sonic 1s public image even at the time was that of upending Mario

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR98zOj0yiw" data-time="

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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 3:53:13 PM
#13:


Is that Andy Dick??
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 6:34:19 PM
#14:


Go Cloud
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 10:13:22 PM
#15:


Hint: the #10 selection is probably going to piss off quite a few users
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AxemRedRanger
12/12/18 10:34:35 PM
#16:


I'd guess Mario 1.
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SeabassDebeste
12/12/18 10:45:13 PM
#17:


yoshi's island
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SeabassDebeste
12/12/18 10:45:53 PM
#18:


also ouch for sonic 1, my first game. but i see why you'd have issues with it - as you say, it punishes fun
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Suprak the Stud
12/12/18 10:51:58 PM
#19:


Its just too bad the rest of Sonic 1 isnt even remotely as fun as Green Hill. I played this game as a kid, but I never owned it and therefore never really got through more than the first few zones. I was more accustomed to Sonic 2 and 3, so that made Sonic 1 particularly jarring to play 20 years later. The game is janky, cheap, and punishes speed--the very element that makes Green Hill so amazing. The lack of a spin-dash is really a massive deterrent to enjoying the experience, since any time you get hit (often by cheap offscreen enemies) you have to s.l.o.w.l.y. regain momentum to get things going again--until you smash into the next enemy.


AGREED

There are so many levels where

you

have to

stop and wait

for these slow

moving

platforms

And it is like whoever made the first zone was different from the team that made the rest. Like you said, Green Hill is awesome and it is designed with speed in mind. There others are just these generic reject levels from bad games where so much time is spent waiting around.

I remember liking it as a kid, but I played it again five years ago and it was terrible. Sequels are much, much better.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/12/18 10:57:44 PM
#20:


Suprak the Stud posted...
And it is like whoever made the first zone was different from the team that made the rest.

I saw somewhere that the dev team spent more time on Green Hill than the rest of the game combined. I'll give Sega credit that it worked... They took a rather mediocre game overall, got kids hooked on the stellar first level, and outsold Nintendo (for a minute).
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SeabassDebeste
12/12/18 11:20:55 PM
#21:


also the music in green hill zone is fantastic
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pjbasis
12/12/18 11:47:11 PM
#22:


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LOLIAmAnAlt
12/12/18 11:51:17 PM
#23:


Classic 2D platformers without any Mega Man games?
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trogita
12/13/18 12:03:16 AM
#24:


Mega Man is almost in its own ultra-challenging genre.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/13/18 8:15:21 AM
#25:


LOLIAmAnAlt posted...
Classic 2D platformers without any Mega Man games?

Mega Man is an action platformer
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Nelson_Mandela
12/13/18 12:37:12 PM
#26:


#10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Sonic2_European_Box.jpg

I am probably going to take a lot of shit for this, but I think that Sonic 2 may very well be the most overrated game I have ever played. Until I came to this board, Sonic 2 was almost universally considered the best Sonic game and the pinnacle of the Sega Genesis. Every video game magazine, every top 100 list had it ranked as the best Sonic game--and often the best Genesis game ever. I had played it as a kid, but I was no where near good enough to make it through the first few zones, so my memories of it weren't super vivid. I also probably hadn't played it since the 90s. Needless to say, I was pretty hyped to play what I always understood to be the far superior sequel as a more refined adult.

But Sonic 2 let me down. I can't even say it "aged poorly" or anything like that. Nothing about the game is really antiquated--it was just never really that amazing to begin with. The spin-dash made parts of the game fun to play, but it suffers from the same inherent flaws as its predecessor. It is a game built around speed that simultaneously punishes going fast. I know the common response to this is that it encourages/forces replays to master it, and that you just need to "get gud." But the fact of the matter is that there are nine other challenging games on this list that encourage replays while not ruining the fun of an initial playthrough. Replays should give you alternate goals to attain, paths to clear, items to receive, etc. Sonic 2 wants you to replay it so the levels suck less when your muscle memory allows you to go fast. Maybe it's just me, but I hate that game design philosophy.

In addition to that intrinsic philosophical disagreement, there were also a number of factors that really took away from my enjoyment of an otherwise beautiful looking and sounding game. Like Sonic 1, the enemies and obstacle placements are fucking cheap, the bonus levels are tedious and annoying, and the hit detection is just awful. The final boss fight in particular was one of the most rage-inducing battles I've ever experienced entirely because the hit detection on Robotnik is genuinely inaccurate--not to mention having to start all over again when you fall victim to this fact.

This isn't to say Sonic 2 is a bad game. If you look at the tiers, I actually do consider it to be pretty okay... and I respect it for starting to change the paradigm for what platformers "should" be. However, we're in a topic that ranks some of the most beloved games in the genre, so in relative terms, Sonic 2 is at the bottom of the lot.

Not good
11. Sonic the Hedgehog

Fine
10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Great
9.
8.
7.

Excellent
6.
5.

Spectacular
4.
3.

All-timers
2.
1.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/13/18 2:16:54 PM
#27:


where leon at
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NeoElfboy
12/13/18 6:58:33 PM
#28:


To be honest I've never felt like Sonic or DKC could hang with Mario. They just don't have the same sublime stage design, and both sometimes feel confused about what they're trying to accomplish as platformers.

Back in the 90's I often felt like a rebel for saying this about Sonic, whereas most people I talked to would agree about DKC. These days I feel it's the reverse.
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Anagram
12/13/18 6:59:56 PM
#29:


Tag
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Nelson_Mandela
12/13/18 7:38:55 PM
#30:


Boo link
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Nelson_Mandela
12/13/18 10:51:26 PM
#31:


Hint: #9 is not a Sonic game!
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MetalmindStats
12/13/18 10:54:09 PM
#32:


My guess: DKC3.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 11:03:35 AM
#33:


up
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 12:05:47 PM
#34:


What comes after this? The 3D platformers?
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Xeybozn
12/14/18 12:07:38 PM
#35:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Hint: #9 is not a Sonic game!

It's a Knuckles game, isn't it?
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Suprak the Stud
12/14/18 12:22:31 PM
#36:


Definitely agree with the placement so far! Sonic 2 was better than Sonic 1, but I kinda didn't like Sonic 1 so that isn't great praise.

Next for me would be one of Mario 1/Mario 2/Sonic 3. Maybe DKC3, but I haven't played that game in forever so that one is a bit murky for me. It is the only one up there I don't have strong memories of, at least, so maybe that's a bad thing.
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lordjers
12/14/18 12:33:19 PM
#37:


Yeah Green Hill is neat but Marble Zone is up there was well. Those two are probably my favorite Sonic areas ever and I don't care that Marble is one of the most un-Sonic ones there is!
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 12:40:11 PM
#38:


Jakyl25 posted...
What comes after this? The 3D platformers?

After this I can finally die in peace

But seriously, I don't even know what the classic 3D platformers would be... The Mario games, SA1-2, and Crash?
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 1:14:09 PM
#39:


#9. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!
https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/ttv-boxart/Donkey%20Kong%20Country%203%3A%20Dixie%20Kong%27s%20Double%20Trouble%21.jpg

We've now reached the point in the list where every remaining game was enjoyable for me! But alas, there must be a least enjoyable enjoyable game, and for me that was (narrowly) DKC3.

The Donkey Kong Country series stands out from its peers because of its emphasis on ambiance and creating an overarching mood while you play. They accomplish this through lush visuals, gorgeous music, and fluid gameplay that feels legitimately zen-like when you're locked in. Unfortunately for DKC3, some of these take a major step back from its predecessors.

The first thing I noticed in this game is that the music mostly sucks. I can't even express to you how much this bummed me out after playing DKC2, which arguably has the greatest soundtrack in 16-bit gaming history. With David Wise's departure from Rare, the OST for the final game in the trilogy is just a mess. It's inconsistent in tone and at times comes off as very childish. Couple that with the awful addition of Kiddy Kong, and parts of the game are straight-up obnoxious. Speaking of Kiddy, I can only imagine how much it would suck to play DKC3 co-op and getting stuck with him. He truly has no redeeming qualities from a gameplay perspective and, once again, this fact is extra apparent when playing the game after DKC2.

Another common complaint I've seen is that the levels are too gimmicky. In fact, all 48 levels in the SNES version are distinctly original and contain a mechanic or gameplay element unique to that stage. Sometimes this fails miserably (Rocket Rush), but other times it can be really fun and memorable. Although it's flawed, I actually like the game better because of the stage variety--not only out of respect for the developers, but because many of the levels are stunning showcases of the SNES capabilities in its twilight.

Overall, DKC3 lacks much of the charm and consistency of the other entrants in the series, but the sheer creativity and impressive visuals definitely make it a black sheep worthy of a playthrough.

Not good
11. Sonic the Hedgehog

Fine
10. Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Great
9. Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!
8.
7.

Excellent
6.
5.

Spectacular
4.
3.

All-timers
2.
1.
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 1:16:34 PM
#40:


Nelson_Mandela posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
What comes after this? The 3D platformers?

After this I can finally die in peace

But seriously, I don't even know what the classic 3D platformers would be... The Mario games, SA1-2, and Crash?


LOL Sonic

Just do the Mario/Rare/Naughty Dog/Insomniac canon
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 1:20:10 PM
#41:


I'll have to see what I can handle. These were great because I could play them for 30 minutes at a time if needed.
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pjbasis
12/14/18 1:20:34 PM
#42:


The only reason I have trouble with Sonic 2 is that it's a lot LONGER than Sonic 1. I got near the final boss a few times and lost all my continues, but there were so many levels that I didn't really retain much information on them to do it all over again.

Sonic 1 levels are less open and in fewer number so I got to memorize them way faster.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 1:22:36 PM
#43:


pjbasis posted...
The only reason I have trouble with Sonic 2 is that it's a lot LONGER than Sonic 1. I got near the final boss a few times and lost all my continues, but there were so many levels that I didn't really retain much information on them to do it all over again.

The fact that Sonic 2 doesn't have a save feature is absolutely punishing. It's probably the most difficult game on the list when you don't count secret levels.
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Xeybozn
12/14/18 1:27:25 PM
#44:


No way, SMB3 without whistles is the hardest game here. And if you want to say its fair to use the whistles to make up for no saves, I'd argue you might as well use Sonic 2's level select for the same reason.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 1:28:42 PM
#45:


Xeybozn posted...
No way, SMB3 without whistles is the hardest game here. And if you want to say its fair to use the whistles to make up for no saves, I'd argue you might as well use Sonic 2's level select for the same reason.

That's actually a good point. I used the All-Stars version for the NES games, but I can't fathom beating SMB3 without saves.
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WarThaNemesis2
12/14/18 1:36:56 PM
#46:


SMB3 has unlimited continues and world checkpoints though.
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WazzupGenius00
12/14/18 1:39:14 PM
#47:


Mario 3 at least has unlimited continues, so given enough time you can prevail.
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Nelson_Mandela
12/14/18 1:43:20 PM
#48:


oh yeah

then I stand by Sonic 2 being the hardest
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 1:51:46 PM
#49:


Well at least all of those 3D platformers save with every major accomplishment
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 1:53:17 PM
#50:


Or you could continue into modern 2D platformers
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