Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 463: Better Viewership Than Raw

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Eddv
12/13/18 2:02:17 PM
#301:


Lopen posted...
Normally I'd be with you, but unlike most things this is good in the now so I don't care as much.

Usually it's me saying "they're going to ruin it" when we've got tepid/bad segments that could potentially be leading to something good. I actually enjoy the (top 3 of) Smackdown Women's division right now though so while them ruining it is a likely scenario it's not really a "give it a chance" kind of thing. It doesn't need to be given a chance. It's just good as it is. Knowing they'll ruin it shouldn't hurt the enjoyment right now. I'll just let it ruin the enjoyment then and enjoy that it's much better than expected now.


Bingo. Is this train gonna run out of fuel? Absofuckinglutely.

Is it good now? Yes.

Their goal with Becky is very obviously to push her as a Tweener so she can feud with both Charlotte and Rousey (who you cant turn heel because shes literally your only full time star with mainstream appeal when Cena isn't around).

This is how they get there.
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NBIceman
12/13/18 2:03:30 PM
#302:


scarletspeed7 posted...
NBIceman posted...
This argument is really good evidence for why the outdated conceptions of face and heel characters need to be done away with entirely.

Write compelling, logical, three dimensional characters and stories to surround them. Then let the audience decide who to cheer for and go from there.

Hey, another reason why bad writers are killing WWE!

You don't even need to necessarily get rid of faces and heels so much as provide consistent, logical booking and reasoning to the characters. It's like how characters like the Horsemen became faces during the NWO era when they were against the NWO and remained heels against the rest of WCW. Just find natural progression. I will always argue that the character of Lex Luger in the latter half of the 90s is one of the most nuanced characters in wrestling, and it's because he eschews the normal role of a heel and develops microrelationships on the roster that have grayer histories.

To me, the problem is that unless you're making a concerted effort to move away from face/heel, it's impossible to truly commit to layered characters, because two things are pretty much always going to happen.

First, from a booker's perspective, the temptation for shaking up a stagnant character is always going to be switching them towards the opposite alignment. If they're written as generally heroic and people get bored with them, the natural inclination is to make them more "heelish," even if you're not technically thinking in terms of a "heel" character or necessarily intending them to be booed. If you free yourself completely from that way of thinking, you'd be more open to instead making them a different kind of hero. Remember the Depressed AJ Styles storyline in TNA, where they tried to make him into a heel by just having him grow his hair out, ride a motorcycle, and be a loner? That didn't make any sense. He could've still been a face with all those characteristics. But because accepted wrestling logic dictates that a character shakeup can (usually) only occur by an alignment swap, the whole thing ended up just being laughed at.

The second, and more important, point is that fans are always going to get caught up in inane arguments like the one we just saw. If no one was concerned with what alignment Becky was, everyone would've just agreed that the segment was effective. As an outsider, I have no idea what's actually going on with Becky or that segment, but the whole thing was caused apparently by semantics born out of the binary face/heel dynamic and the extent to which people even think it exists or has to exist.

I also remember that Samoa Joe vs Sami Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match in NXT. I loved that match at the time because Joe was showing some face tendencies in it and I thought it was actually a clever way to get to a more nuanced Joe character. Instead, they completely ignored it afterwards because "well, he's a heel, we've gotta get him booed, better make him an unrepentant asshole still." What was a MOTYC for me fell way down my list because of the internal logic inconsistencies. So the face/heel dynamic can even bleed into matches sometimes.

I'm not saying that there's not already a bit of a sliding scale in some companies, but I think that until bookers are willing to cast it off entirely they'll still be hamstringing themselves by a natural instinct to abide by some of its conventions.
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HashtagSEP
12/13/18 2:04:17 PM
#303:


Eddv posted...
Lopen posted...
Normally I'd be with you, but unlike most things this is good in the now so I don't care as much.

Usually it's me saying "they're going to ruin it" when we've got tepid/bad segments that could potentially be leading to something good. I actually enjoy the (top 3 of) Smackdown Women's division right now though so while them ruining it is a likely scenario it's not really a "give it a chance" kind of thing. It doesn't need to be given a chance. It's just good as it is. Knowing they'll ruin it shouldn't hurt the enjoyment right now. I'll just let it ruin the enjoyment then and enjoy that it's much better than expected now.


Bingo. Is this train gonna run out of fuel? Absofuckinglutely.

Is it good now? Yes.

Their goal with Becky is very obviously to push her as a Tweener so she can feud with both Charlotte and Rousey (who you cant turn heel because shes literally your only full time star with mainstream appeal when Cena isn't around).

This is how they get there.


This is what I'm expecting and am fine with, that she's the "face" against Charlotte and will be the heel against Rousey.

I just got told their goal now was for her to be face, not tweener/heel later, and thus the argument.
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TheRock1525
12/13/18 2:07:17 PM
#304:


Heels can still show face-like qualities. It's why NXT works so well because heels aren't asked to wrestle slow-plodding styles with lots of rest holds, taunting and momentum killing maneuvers. They still use them, and they're still present, but they're not beyond flurries of offense and face style "comebacks."

Look at all the MotY candidates Gargano was as a face and one as a heel. There's a subtle shift to denote the change in alignment without throwing out the entire repertoire.
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HashtagSEP
12/13/18 2:08:26 PM
#305:


NBIceman posted...
As an outsider, I have no idea what's actually going on with Becky or that segment, but the whole thing was caused apparently by semantics born out of the binary face/heel dynamic and the extent to which people even think it exists or has to exist.


To be a bit more clear, my argument wasn't that face/heel should or has to exist. My argument was moreso that WWE is very much keeping Becky in a place where they can easily tell fans "You shouldn't cheer her now" at any point and against any opponent, be it Asuka or Rousey or whatever, and thus I couldn't get on board with the thought of giving WWE the benefit of the doubt on stuff that's happening now because they're still going to try and tell fans what to think regardless of what they actually think, instead of just embracing the reactions.

And because of that, it kinda dampens my enjoyment of the product a bit, because I know that even though I like something now, next week I could get WWE going "Okay well now you have to boo her because X."
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NBIceman
12/13/18 2:16:26 PM
#306:


TheRock1525 posted...
Heels can still show face-like qualities. It's why NXT works so well because heels aren't asked to wrestle slow-plodding styles with lots of rest holds, taunting and momentum killing maneuvers. They still use them, and they're still present, but they're not beyond flurries of offense and face style "comebacks."

Look at all the MotY candidates Gargano was as a face and one as a heel. There's a subtle shift to denote the change in alignment without throwing out the entire repertoire.

In the match I was talking about, my complaints had nothing to do with style. There were multiple times where Zayn was clearly done, struggling to get on his feet, but refusing to let himself get beat.

Repeatedly, Joe would shake his head remorsefully and get the ref to check on him while he retreated to the corner until, after like the fourth or fifth time, he finally just put him away.

Compare that to how he was before and after that match. A monster who would mercilessly go after his opponents in and out of the ring, beating the living hell out of them, oftentimes having to be forcefully pulled off when they'd had enough. He just liked to hurt people. Except in this one match, for whatever reason. They could've gone somewhere with that, but instead they decided, "nope, he's a heel, we gotta just go back to having him hurt people." And it was still entertaining, because Joe's awesome, but it could've been so much better. There could've been a match down the line where the two united for one night only against a common enemy because Zayn was one of the few who'd earned Joe's respect. But NOPE, CAN'T HAPPEN, ONE'S A FACE AND ONE'S A HEEL!

HashtagSEP posted...
NBIceman posted...
As an outsider, I have no idea what's actually going on with Becky or that segment, but the whole thing was caused apparently by semantics born out of the binary face/heel dynamic and the extent to which people even think it exists or has to exist.


To be a bit more clear, my argument wasn't that face/heel should or has to exist. My argument was moreso that WWE is very much keeping Becky in a place where they can easily tell fans "You shouldn't cheer her now" at any point and against any opponent, be it Asuka or Rousey or whatever, and thus I couldn't get on board with the thought of giving WWE the benefit of the doubt on stuff that's happening now because they're still going to try and tell fans what to think regardless of what they actually think, instead of just embracing the reactions.

And because of that, it kinda dampens my enjoyment of the product a bit, because I know that even though I like something now, next week I could get WWE going "Okay well now you have to boo her because X."

Right. I understand. MY argument is that the entire issue could be avoided, both in WWE and elsewhere, if nobody felt like they had to tell the fans anything in regards to who they should or shouldn't cheer for.

Like, we're on the same page in regards to "telling fans what they should think." Elimination of face/heel dynamic would also eliminate anyone feeling like they need to do that at all. It wouldn't fix every problem with WWE's storytelling, but it'd be a nice first step.
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TheRock1525
12/13/18 2:19:42 PM
#307:


The movies that make the most money have clearcut heroes and villains. Doesn't mean the villain can't be endearing or even somewhat right (why hello there, Kilmonger) but at the end of the day I think the WWE very much needs to live in the world of "here's our good guys, here's our bad guys, they will fight."
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HashtagSEP
12/13/18 2:25:11 PM
#308:


TheRock1525 posted...
The movies that make the most money have clearcut heroes and villains. Doesn't mean the villain can't be endearing or even somewhat right (why hello there, Kilmonger) but at the end of the day I think the WWE very much needs to live in the world of "here's our good guys, here's our bad guys, they will fight."


To be fair, the most popular movies have also had clear cut examples where popular reaction dictated what a hero or villain was!

The government tried to tell people to like Captain America, and he got booed by the "core fanbase" (the army). But then through his actions, he won them over and actually became the hero the government wanted him to be. Then the government decided to label him a villain over that one accident, but people still mostly stood by him until they actually witnessed him fighting other heroes, causing destruction, and so on. Then he became a villain/criminal to the people.

The cases where the government tried to tell people what to think basically failed, but people had natural reactions to his actions.
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Hardcore_Adult
12/13/18 2:26:09 PM
#309:


^ But that was pretty much their MO from when Vince took over from his dad, shit, even before that.
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TheRock1525
12/13/18 2:34:33 PM
#310:


I was thinking more along the lines of "character like Hela are huge assholes."
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NBIceman
12/13/18 2:37:05 PM
#311:


Movies have a designated beginning and end. They don't have to worry about putting out a consistent product week after week year after year and keeping a near-endless rotation of characters interesting. They have defined arcs where they can develop naturally without ever changing their basic good guy or bad guy alignment.

New Japan is gaining new fans every year while WWE is losing them. There's a multitude of reasons for that, but in my opinion, they can all be traced back to a willingness to do something akin to what I've been saying. They let their characters breathe. They have complex motivations that change a little bit at a time. They don't act the same way toward every opponent of one alignment or the other. And they evolve within themselves. Tanahashi's been a face for a long time, but he's been a different kind of face. In the beginning of the so-called "Okada era," he was the valiant, pure hero who always stuck to his ideals and conquered the impure villains who challenged him. Once Okada showed up, he got a little frustrated at his spotlight being stolen and showed a willingness to play a little dirty - but only against Okada. Against everyone else he was the same old Tanahashi. As the years wore on, that edge showed up more and more often. Then last year, and earlier this year, he was essentially a midlife crisis dude who refused to accept that his time was over. Fans loved him now because he was an earnest underdog most of the time who just couldn't quite get the job done in big spots anymore. And now, he's got a little bit of that valiance back in his clash of ideals against weirdo Omega as he gets ready for what could be his last shot at the top.

Through it all, sometimes he's been overwhelmingly cheered in his matches, sometimes pretty overwhelmingly booed, sometimes somewhere in the middle. But no matter what, it's made money. I don't believe Tanahashi would still be drawing the way he did five years ago if he was still written the way he was five years ago. But they've kept him fresh without ever really getting away from the core of his character.

THAT'S what I want more of. But the face/heel system makes it too tempting to take the easy way out instead of finding a way to keep guys interesting with subtle changes like NJPW does.
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scarletspeed7
12/13/18 2:37:13 PM
#312:


Hela is in the right.
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Jakyl25
12/13/18 2:39:45 PM
#313:


NBIceman posted...
Remember the Depressed AJ Styles storyline in TNA, where they tried to make him into a heel by just having him grow his hair out, ride a motorcycle, and be a loner? That didn't make any sense.


My favorite thing about that story was they spent all this time revamping his character to be 1997 Sting and then he lost his first match back clean
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ScareChan
12/13/18 2:52:45 PM
#314:


I watched raw and there was a good thing in it

The dean interview and promo video was fantastic
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WarThaNemesis2
12/13/18 4:24:01 PM
#315:


Jakyl25 posted...
NBIceman posted...
Remember the Depressed AJ Styles storyline in TNA, where they tried to make him into a heel by just having him grow his hair out, ride a motorcycle, and be a loner? That didn't make any sense.


My favorite thing about that story was they spent all this time revamping his character to be 1997 Sting and then he lost his first match back clean


I mean so did 1997 Sting.
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/13/18 4:29:36 PM
#316:


Catching up on Up Up Down Down and this slayed me.

Uso: What an awesome title. Because if you say belt, we'll punch you in the mouth.

Woods: Shoutouts to Young Randall (Randy Orton).

I love that they have in jokes about WWE terminology.
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Hardcore_Adult
12/13/18 5:36:06 PM
#317:


NXT continues to deliver as does 205, Always left looking fwd to next week with those two.
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Jakyl25
12/13/18 8:04:07 PM
#318:


Supposedly theres going to be some internal discussion about the direction/future of 205 Live when everyone gets back together after the holidays on 1/7
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TheRock1525
12/13/18 8:06:20 PM
#319:


They want more pee related Maverick storylines on 205 Live.
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/14/18 7:37:47 AM
#320:


Free Wrestling Observer Live where they blow up the entire idea that Raw is too hard to write. It was actually a really enjoyable listen.

https://www.f4wonline.com/wrestling-observer-live/free-wol-smackdown-and-raw-ratings-dave-meltzer-interview-more-272316
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Hardcore_Adult
12/14/18 9:08:19 AM
#321:


Jakyl25 posted...
Supposedly theres going to be some internal discussion about the direction/future of 205 Live when everyone gets back together after the holidays on 1/7


They've been making inroads and then some since January where the game was raised every week. What's there to discuss?
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 9:56:16 AM
#322:


Hardcore_Adult posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Supposedly theres going to be some internal discussion about the direction/future of 205 Live when everyone gets back together after the holidays on 1/7


They've been making inroads and then some since January where the game was raised every week. What's there to discuss?


Sinking viewership
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 12:32:15 PM
#323:


I just realized why Vince is okay with these ratings

You cant pin it on Roman
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ShatteredElysium
12/14/18 12:36:47 PM
#324:


Alternatively he can say it's because theres no Roman
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/14/18 12:37:16 PM
#325:


On the Bryan and Vinny show, they talked about Tyler Breeze on NXT looking incredibly confident and like a total main eventer and actually making Ricochet look like just a guy when he came out. They said he got a bigger pop on this NXT show than anyone in WWE had in ages.

Then they were asking how they have a guy who can get this reaction and do such a great job and WWE has no idea what to do with him and they end up sending him to NXT while Fandango is out. It kind of goes back to what (I think) scarlet was talking about where a minor character like Tyler Breeze has absolutely nothing going for him on Raw, so it's impossible for people to care, when he's shown he can be a great talent. And that with 30+ writers they still can't come up with anything for Tyler Breeze.

It was actually an interesting thought.
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Hardcore_Adult
12/14/18 12:42:39 PM
#326:


Fashion Files was like the best thing for Breezango but when it started getting over Vinnie boy decided to nix it.
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 12:44:36 PM
#327:


Listening to Dave and Bryan from Wednesday night discuss these people defending WWEs bad writing because its hard

Bryan: Vince has always been in the writers room changing his mind, its not like this is new!

Dave: Its worse now.

Get some help Vince!
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/14/18 12:55:29 PM
#328:


Bryan says what's really hard is having an intervention with Vince. He's not wrong. But Steph and Trips should be the ones pushing for this because it will be their company soon enough. They have the most to lose.

I still don't necessarily understand what is so hard about writing a 3 hour wrestling show still. Like, take out commercials and you're down to maybe 2.25 hours, if that. And then add in match times where the writers are largely uninvolved for the most part except for a finish. Take out time for entrances and stuff too and promotional videos and that takes even less time out. So they have 30+ people there to write awful dialogue for people and figure out a general storyline direction? That somehow it's so hard that it has the writers up at 3 in the morning trying to figure out?

It sounds like the whole creative process is seriously fucked up somewhere.
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 12:57:10 PM
#329:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
But Steph and Trips should be the ones pushing for this because it will be their company soon enough. They have the most to lose.


Soon

https://statics.sportskeeda.com/editor/2017/12/97114-1512942192-800.jpg
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HashtagSEP
12/14/18 1:06:45 PM
#330:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Bryan says what's really hard is having an intervention with Vince. He's not wrong. But Steph and Trips should be the ones pushing for this because it will be their company soon enough. They have the most to lose.

I still don't necessarily understand what is so hard about writing a 3 hour wrestling show still. Like, take out commercials and you're down to maybe 2.25 hours, if that. And then add in match times where the writers are largely uninvolved for the most part except for a finish. Take out time for entrances and stuff too and promotional videos and that takes even less time out. So they have 30+ people there to write awful dialogue for people and figure out a general storyline direction? That somehow it's so hard that it has the writers up at 3 in the morning trying to figure out?

It sounds like the whole creative process is seriously fucked up somewhere.


I mean, it's definitely harder than most TV in that you gotta fill atleast 2.25 hours every single week with literally no normal "seasons" to create downtime in between, and you gotta do so by taking into account that people will or will not react the way you are hoping to and things may or may not need to be changed on the fly, whether because of that or an injury or who knows what else.

So is it likely very difficult? Yes.

Is it anywhere near as difficult as they seem to be making it, or too difficult for a company that has as much money as WWE? Absolutely not.
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WarThaNemesis2
12/14/18 1:10:39 PM
#331:


HashtagSEP posted...
PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Bryan says what's really hard is having an intervention with Vince. He's not wrong. But Steph and Trips should be the ones pushing for this because it will be their company soon enough. They have the most to lose.

I still don't necessarily understand what is so hard about writing a 3 hour wrestling show still. Like, take out commercials and you're down to maybe 2.25 hours, if that. And then add in match times where the writers are largely uninvolved for the most part except for a finish. Take out time for entrances and stuff too and promotional videos and that takes even less time out. So they have 30+ people there to write awful dialogue for people and figure out a general storyline direction? That somehow it's so hard that it has the writers up at 3 in the morning trying to figure out?

It sounds like the whole creative process is seriously fucked up somewhere.


I mean, it's definitely harder than most TV in that you gotta fill atleast 2.25 hours every single week with literally no normal "seasons" to create downtime in between, and you gotta do so by taking into account that people will or will not react the way you are hoping to and things may or may not need to be changed on the fly, whether because of that or an injury or who knows what else.

So is it likely very difficult? Yes.

Is it anywhere near as difficult as they seem to be making it, or too difficult for a company that has as much money as WWE? Absolutely not.


"Fuck off SEP, this grammar is shitty. Rewrite the entire post, and don't just fix that one typo." - Vince McMahon
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NBIceman
12/14/18 1:17:27 PM
#332:


The thing with filling time is... it's wrestling. You've got a very talented roster. Just let them go out and wrestle.
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/14/18 1:19:17 PM
#333:


HashtagSEP posted...
I mean, it's definitely harder than most TV in that you gotta fill atleast 2.25 hours every single week with literally no normal "seasons" to create downtime in between, and you gotta do so by taking into account that people will or will not react the way you are hoping to and things may or may not need to be changed on the fly, whether because of that or an injury or who knows what else.

So is it likely very difficult? Yes.

Is it anywhere near as difficult as they seem to be making it, or too difficult for a company that has as much money as WWE? Absolutely not.

Oh, I totally get that stuff.

I get things having to change on the fly and that being hard, but creating the show week-to-week with an entire week to prepare it. I know it's not necessarily easy, but it seems ridiculous how they make it out to seem like it's so difficult they have these sleepless nights and have to slave over ideas for an entire show for a week as more than a full time thing when most of the show can just be filled in with Seth Rollins and Baron Corbin have a 30 minute match and this happens at the end.

Like I just don't get what makes it so absurdly difficult compared to other television programs aside from the fact that they don't get downtime between seasons.
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 1:20:11 PM
#334:


HashtagSEP posted...
PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
Bryan says what's really hard is having an intervention with Vince. He's not wrong. But Steph and Trips should be the ones pushing for this because it will be their company soon enough. They have the most to lose.

I still don't necessarily understand what is so hard about writing a 3 hour wrestling show still. Like, take out commercials and you're down to maybe 2.25 hours, if that. And then add in match times where the writers are largely uninvolved for the most part except for a finish. Take out time for entrances and stuff too and promotional videos and that takes even less time out. So they have 30+ people there to write awful dialogue for people and figure out a general storyline direction? That somehow it's so hard that it has the writers up at 3 in the morning trying to figure out?

It sounds like the whole creative process is seriously fucked up somewhere.


I mean, it's definitely harder than most TV in that you gotta fill atleast 2.25 hours every single week with literally no normal "seasons" to create downtime in between, and you gotta do so by taking into account that people will or will not react the way you are hoping to and things may or may not need to be changed on the fly, whether because of that or an injury or who knows what else.

So is it likely very difficult? Yes.

Is it anywhere near as difficult as they seem to be making it, or too difficult for a company that has as much money as WWE? Absolutely not.


The best counterpoint is that they used to fill the same amount of weekly content, to more than double the viewership, with the competition having half of the available talent.
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CeraSeptem
12/14/18 1:41:49 PM
#335:


Every time I hear Kyle O'Reilly I hear Kylo Riley/Reilly.
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Eddv
12/14/18 1:55:37 PM
#336:


NBIceman posted...
The thing with filling time is... it's wrestling. You've got a very talented roster. Just let them go out and wrestle.


This used to be a lot harder.

You cant just GIVE AWAY The Mounty vs Mr. Perfect or else why would anyone pay to see it at Survivor Series?

Or if you give away like Nakamura vs Hardy in May why would you expect people to get up for it in September?

But fuck it. With the network that stuff just doesn't matter anymore. You just want people invested enough in your product to buy the subscription.
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Lopen
12/14/18 3:35:08 PM
#337:


Eddv posted...
Or if you give away like Nakamura vs Hardy in May why would you expect people to get up for it in September?

But fuck it. With the network that stuff just doesn't matter anymore. You just want people invested enough in your product to buy the subscription.


It's still too much for these writers even with the ability to give matches away because they give matches away repeatedly. The same match. Like you don't have to make Hardy vs Nakamura not happen till the PPV but you don't wanna run it into the ground either.

Honestly think the idea that there are TOO MANY writers has some merit. There is a lot of content but writing it isn't too hard for a few people if you were working on it like a full time job.
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ScareChan
12/14/18 4:06:57 PM
#338:


Needs more stables imo
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PrivateBiscuit1
12/14/18 5:08:59 PM
#339:


So uh, the word is now that WWE isn't worried about the ratings because they are extremely confident that in January they have stuff planned that will turn everything around.

I don't even have a single idea what it could be.
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scarletspeed7
12/14/18 5:18:46 PM
#340:


Short of Conor and the Rock joining the show for a while, I have no idea.
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RaidenGarai
12/14/18 5:43:45 PM
#341:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
So uh, the word is now that WWE isn't worried about the ratings because they are extremely confident that in January they have stuff planned that will turn everything around.

I don't even have a single idea what it could be.


I'd say Owens, but I doubt he'll be back that soon.

My guess is they'll be starting the process of feeding Becky to Ronda, but I don't think that alone is enough. Maybe they assume that Lesnar will show up for the Rumble, and that's enough to get people to watch? That could be when they start Lesnar/Seth, but I don't think that's something that will magically get people on board either.
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Hardcore_Adult
12/14/18 5:47:15 PM
#342:


Why the fuck do they keep giving Lesnar titles?

He has nothing left to prove.

But this has been asked.
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Eddv
12/14/18 5:54:46 PM
#343:


Seth isnt an asses in seats sort of guy he's just pleasing the the asses that are already in seats guy agreed.
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scarletspeed7
12/14/18 5:55:19 PM
#344:


He likes pleasing asses?
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StealThisSheen
12/14/18 5:56:01 PM
#345:


But he's not even an Ass Man!
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ScareChan
12/14/18 5:56:10 PM
#346:


Eddv posted...
Seth isnt an asses in seats sort of guy he's just pleasing the the asses that are already in seats guy agreed.


I agree with this
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Eddv
12/14/18 6:02:43 PM
#347:


scarletspeed7 posted...
He likes pleasing asses?


Considering his exes? Absolutely.
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scarletspeed7
12/14/18 6:03:05 PM
#348:


That explains why Dean is the tittymaster. Seth is the assblaster.
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 7:42:26 PM
#349:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
So uh, the word is now that WWE isn't worried about the ratings because they are extremely confident that in January they have stuff planned that will turn everything around.

I don't even have a single idea what it could be.


Cenas back on 1/7 and he probably boosts things like 10% just by being there

At least until they start screwing him up too
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Jakyl25
12/14/18 7:42:58 PM
#350:


scarletspeed7 posted...
That explains why Dean is the tittymaster. Seth is the assblaster.


He did once win the sexy ass lottery
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