Poll of the Day > Conservative Teacher is FIRED for being ANTI-TRANSGENDER and STUDENTS are MAD!!!

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Full Throttle
12/08/18 1:25:38 AM
#1:


Do you have a problem with addressing Transgender People by their preferred identity? - Results (8 votes)
Yes
50% (4 votes)
4
No
50% (4 votes)
4
47 y/o Christian Kook, Peter Vlaming, a French Teacher from Virginia was FIRED after he refused to use a transgender student's new pronoun's and thus, he was given the boot for INSUBORDINATION!!

The West Point School Board voted unanimously to dismiss him after he told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for a student who informed the school of his transition this summer.

He offered to use the boy's name and to avoid feminine pronouns but his attorney, Shawn Voyles said the school was willing to accept his compromise.

The school said his plan would discriminate against the boy and now he said the school discriminated against his religious beliefs!!

He was on paid leave on Halloween leading up to the hearing and his students have WALKED OUT in PROTEST over the firing!!

He taught the student, who was a girl, during their 9th grade year last year but after his transition, he refuses to acknowledge that they are now male using masculine pronouns that made the student now feel uncomfortable and singled out.

Principal Jonathan Hochman said that Vlaming told him that he "liked" and "missed" the FEMALE VERSION of the student.

Peter also said that he cannot fathom seeing a girl turn into a boy as it is not "biologically possible" and he refuses to accept that despite being "socially acceptable" nowadays.

The superintendent, Laura Abel said this discrimination leadsd to a hostile learning environment and students felt disrespected and the non discrimination policies were updated a year ago to protect gender identity

52 y/o parent, Jennifer Haynes supports Peter and said "If there's no policy in place, how can they just let him go?"

Mera Babineaux is in support of the student and is the founder of Anti-Bullying and Discrimination who said no matter what sense of self or identity a child may have, public schools must remain a bastion of secular education

Peter's lawyer says his rights are being violated even as a government employee that isn't allowing him to be free to be compelled to speak something that violates his conscience

Peter said "My religious faith dictates that i am to love and respect everyone whether i agree with them or not because we are all made in God's image. I represente the state in my r ole as a public school teacher and therefore speak with a certain authority. That authority is not to be used to promote any one specific worldview and i don't. However we are today because a specific worldview is being imposed upon me."

Peter also claims his job is in peril for having a view that the MAJORITY is held for most of human history and said that most people are too afraid to speak up against accepting transgender people where most are deep down AGAINST IT!!.

A small group of conservative students walked out in support of him and yelled "VLAMING" and protest over his firing and demand he get his job back.

He is now considering a legal appeal and if his 1st Amendment rights are being violated

Do you have a problem with addressing Transgender People by their preferred identity?

Peter - Voldemort

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/19/7148300-6471579-image-a-43_1544209343062.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/18/7148318-6471579-image-a-36_1544208994414.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/19/7148284-6471579-image-a-49_1544210518480.jpg

Jonathan - Principal

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/20/7148312-6471579-At_the_hearing_West_Point_High_School_principal_Jonathan_Hochman-a-1_1544214948455.jpg

Conservative Kids -

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/18/7148462-6471579-image-a-29_1544208936775.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2018/12/07/18/7148460-6471579-image-a-41_1544209062125.jpg
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Muscles
12/08/18 1:55:30 AM
#2:


I would, but I don't think he's a bad person for not doing that, i'm more concerned with the fact he was fired over it, sjws can't stop ruining people's lives
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Keebs05
12/08/18 1:58:59 AM
#3:


Full Throttle posted...
He offered to use the boy's name and to avoid feminine pronouns but his attorney, Shawn Voyles said the school was willing to accept his compromise.

Seems more than reasonable.

Full Throttle posted...
Principal Jonathan Hochman said that Vlaming told him that he "liked" and "missed" the FEMALE VERSION of the student.

That, on the other hand, is a little inappropriate.
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JTekashiro
12/08/18 1:56:30 PM
#4:


The kids holding signs could clearly use some education on gender. They seem to think "a man is a man and that is a fact" which is most definitely not the currently accepted "fact" in the scientific community.
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dioxxys
12/08/18 2:05:15 PM
#5:


Wait so someone under the age of consent went under a huge life changing event? But what about their mental immaturity that can't possibly cope with making such a life altering choice?
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Zareth
12/08/18 2:13:16 PM
#6:


A man is not a man, a man is a miserable little pile of secrets.
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_AdjI_
12/08/18 2:16:36 PM
#7:


Muscles posted...
i'm more concerned with the fact he was fired over it,


Student: This is my name
Teacher: No it's not I'm calling you the name I want

I'm fine with firing that teacher. That's really not an appropriate way to treat a student (or anyone, really, and it's pretty disturbing how many people think they're taking some sort of moral high ground by acting that way), and that means he shouldn't be working as a teacher.
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Nichtcrawler X
12/08/18 2:19:20 PM
#8:


_AdjI_ posted...
Student: This is my name
Teacher: No it's not I'm calling you the name I want

I'm fine with firing that teacher. That's really not an appropriate way to treat a student (or anyone, really, and it's pretty disturbing how many people think they're taking some sort of moral high ground by acting that way), and that means he shouldn't be working as a teacher.


It is how a cousin of my mom found out he was adopted.

JTekashiro posted...
They seem to think "a man is a man and that is a fact" which is most definitely not the currently accepted "fact" in the scientific community.


Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 2:39:25 PM
#9:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.
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Lokarin
12/08/18 2:44:31 PM
#10:


when aren't students mad?
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Nichtcrawler X
12/08/18 2:46:54 PM
#11:


Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.


Again, it depends on exactly what you are talking about. So many arguments exist because people think they are talking about the same thing but actually are not.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 2:48:23 PM
#12:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.


Again, it depends on exactly what you are talking about. So many arguments exist because people think they are talking about the same thing but actually are not.


Even biological sex has a number of confounding factors that make it not straightforward.
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_AdjI_
12/08/18 2:48:33 PM
#13:


Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.


It does depend on how we're defining "man" to begin with. Presenting as a man and being a man at every biological level are more different than people tend to appreciate. On the woman side of things, Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is probably the most noteworthy example of that, where somebody will appear completely indistinguishable from a biological female, but they'll actually have internal testes and no ovaries/uterus (and by extension, a shallower vagina and no periods).
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Nichtcrawler X
12/08/18 2:51:13 PM
#14:


Magus 10 posted...
Even biological sex has a number of confounding factors that make it not straightforward.


In determination perhaps, but that does not mean it can be (easily) changed.
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Muscles
12/08/18 2:55:35 PM
#15:


_AdjI_ posted...
Muscles posted...
i'm more concerned with the fact he was fired over it,


Student: This is my name
Teacher: No it's not I'm calling you the name I want

I'm fine with firing that teacher. That's really not an appropriate way to treat a student (or anyone, really, and it's pretty disturbing how many people think they're taking some sort of moral high ground by acting that way), and that means he shouldn't be working as a teacher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_UbmaZQx74" data-time="

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wwinterj25
12/08/18 3:31:29 PM
#16:


Full Throttle posted...
Do you have a problem with addressing Transgender People by their preferred identity?

If they request to be refereed to as being something then I won't go out of my way to call them something different. If I'm however unaware of their preference then I may refer to them as something they don't want. This is no different to someones name though. I've had many folk actually ask me if I prefer to be called Jim for example or just flat out call me it.
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ninja_lootz
12/08/18 3:53:20 PM
#17:


Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.


Again, it depends on exactly what you are talking about. So many arguments exist because people think they are talking about the same thing but actually are not.


Even biological sex has a number of confounding factors that make it not straightforward.

I bet you ask every person you meet what their pronouns are, just in case.
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ASlaveObeys
12/08/18 5:50:25 PM
#18:


Honestly, I can't see how they can fire him for it. There are no policies and the laws on what is a gender versus what is a sex pronoun aren't defined enough to have a basis on the topic. If he isn't directly going to the student and saying "Yer not a boy, stop being you." Then it really isn't an attack.

I mean, he is being a bit of a dick by not using the pronouns even if he doesn't agree with the student's choice, but if he isn't actively being hostile about it and there are no regulations in place I can't see it.
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DiduXD
12/08/18 5:54:17 PM
#19:


Boys are boys

Girls are girls

I'll refer to whatever gender they were assigned at birth.
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Lokarin
12/08/18 5:58:30 PM
#20:


DiduXD posted...
assigned at birth.


Sex isn't assigned, it's observed
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 6:02:48 PM
#21:


Compromise is not enough, full submission is compulsory.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 6:09:05 PM
#22:


ninja_lootz posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Nichtcrawler X posted...
Depends on whether one is talking about gender or sex.


No it doesn't.


Again, it depends on exactly what you are talking about. So many arguments exist because people think they are talking about the same thing but actually are not.


Even biological sex has a number of confounding factors that make it not straightforward.

I bet you ask every person you meet what their pronouns are, just in case.


No, but if someone expresses a preference then I'll try to abide by that.

Lokarin posted...
DiduXD posted...
assigned at birth.


Sex isn't assigned, it's observed


Once again that's not always clear cut.
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VideoboysaysCube
12/08/18 6:14:58 PM
#23:


I swear we're going to reach the day where people identify as a piece of furniture and throw a tantrum over not being referred to as "it".
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PKMNsony
12/08/18 6:16:38 PM
#24:


I dont care but people shouldnt be punished for it either.
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ASlaveObeys
12/08/18 6:28:35 PM
#25:


VideoboysaysCube posted...
I swear we're going to reach the day where people identify as a piece of furniture and throw a tantrum over not being referred to as "it".

That's the real problem legally speaking. If, by law, there isn't an assigned number to genders how is it possible for someone to safely address anyone by a pronoun? Even worse if we're legally going to allow people to say they identify however they feel they should be, but we're also running the risk of offending (so far as it being called harassment) by asking for preferred pronouns there is literally no way to safely identify anyone.
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Lokarin
12/08/18 6:33:56 PM
#26:


Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 6:39:29 PM
#27:


Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 6:40:41 PM
#28:


Magus 10 posted...
Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?

You do blood tests then assign on facts, they're inconclusive til then.
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ASlaveObeys
12/08/18 6:41:37 PM
#29:


Magus 10 posted...
Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?

Those are incredibly rare anomalies that you can't really consider in statistical conversations. You wouldn't argue that you can't say a person is born with 10 fingers and toes because sometimes very rarely people are born with one extra or one less.
It's not viable statistically.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 6:42:25 PM
#30:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?

You do blood tests then assign on facts, they're inconclusive til then.


What sex do you assign to someone with XY chromosomes and a vagina?

Or XXY chromosomes?
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Magus 10
12/08/18 6:44:12 PM
#31:


ASlaveObeys posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?

Those are incredibly rare anomalies that you can't really consider in statistical conversations. You wouldn't argue that you can't say a person is born with 10 fingers and toes because sometimes very rarely people are born with one extra or one less.
It's not viable statistically.


I said:

Once again that's not always clear cut.


Because it's not always clear cut, and there have certainly been cases where someone's sex was assigned at birth.

I'm not saying that it happens all the time, or even often.
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 6:45:49 PM
#32:


Magus 10 posted...
What sex do you assign to someone with XY chromosomes and a vagina?

Male with a birth defect.

Magus 10 posted...
Or XXY chromosomes?

They are already defined as male with an extra X, remember that the difference is more subtle than the hyper-verbose description the short hand name is.
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ASlaveObeys
12/08/18 6:47:37 PM
#33:


But when you're arguing about legality you have to remove the statistical anomalies. All the instances where it isn't clear cut are less than 1% (much less often) than the total population and can be considered on a case by case basis because of how few there are.

It's not 100%, sure, but it's still clear cut that biologically speaking it's safe to say the average person will be born male or female barring a rare anomaly.
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RainShower
12/08/18 6:49:57 PM
#34:


don't care.
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Lokarin
12/08/18 6:53:06 PM
#35:


Magus 10 posted...
Lokarin posted...
Magus 10 posted...
Once again that's not always clear cut.


When you are born, yes it is - sexuality doesn't emerge until later. You don't just look as a wangle and go - definitely a girl.


Alright, what sex do you assign to someone with a vaginal opening and a penis?


Both.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 6:56:09 PM
#36:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Magus 10 posted...
What sex do you assign to someone with XY chromosomes and a vagina?

Male with a birth defect.


Now imagine that they presented as female at birth (which is normal for androgen insensitivity syndrome), and so they don't bother doing any test to determine the chromosomal sex, and they grow up as female.

They have a blood test for something unrelated when they're 25, and it reveals they have XY chromosomes.

Do you suddenly consider them male now?

Magus 10 posted...
Or XXY chromosomes?

They are already defined as male with an extra X, remember that the difference is more subtle than the hyper-verbose description the short hand name is.


In your world, we define everything based on chromosomes, so I'm not sure why you automatically go to male with an extra X instead of female with a Y.

Now, what about a chimera that has some XX cells and some XY cells?
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 7:10:48 PM
#37:


Magus 10 posted...
Now imagine that they presented as female at birth (which is normal for androgen insensitivity syndrome), and so they don't bother doing any test to determine the chromosomal sex, and they grow up as female.

They have a blood test for something unrelated when they're 25, and it reveals they have XY chromosomes.

Do you suddenly consider them male now?

Yes.

What you're ignoring is that sex is pretty arbitrary and people can express themselves however they wish. Him being male wouldn't make me treat him differently and I would understand if he wants to continue life presenting as female, but I would expect birth certificate corrections and official forms to be dealt with according to who he is.

Regarding gender dysphoria, I'm not comfortable encouraging a mental affliction, and them not being able to cope when people react based on what they percieve further solidifies that the person has a head issue, not a labelling problem.

Magus 10 posted...
In your world, we define everything based on chromosomes, so I'm not sure why you automatically go to male with an extra X instead of female with a Y.

Because the male X chromasome is different from female ones. It's a male defect.

Magus 10 posted...
Now, what about a chimera that has some XX cells and some XY cells?

They're a chimera, ideally what bits are male and which are female would be documented by their doctor. I'd suggest they write chimera or N/A.
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Magus 10
12/08/18 7:16:37 PM
#38:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Yes.

What you're ignoring is that sex is pretty arbitrary and people can express themselves however they wish. Him being male wouldn't make me treat him differently and I would understand if he wants to continue life presenting as female, but I would expect birth certificate corrections and official forms to be dealt with according to who he is.

Regarding gender dysphoria, I'm not comfortable encouraging a mental affliction, and them not being able to cope when people react based on what they percieve further solidifies that the person has a head issue, not a labelling problem.


Why bother having it on a birth certificate if it's so arbitrary?

Kyuubi4269 posted...
ideally what bits are male and which are female would be documented by their doctor.


That's not always possible. It's not necessarily "part A is XX and part B is XY", it could just be that some blood cells are XX and some blood cells are XY, in the same blood sample.

They might still present as fully male or fully female.
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 7:33:12 PM
#39:


Magus 10 posted...
Why bother having it on a birth certificate if it's so arbitrary?

Socially arbitrary, medically important.

Magus 10 posted...
That's not always possible. It's not necessarily "part A is XX and part B is XY", it could just be that some blood cells are XX and some blood cells are XY, in the same blood sample.

That's from bone marrow being one or the other, and that's identifiable. Note, I said "ideally", as they should note every defect they come across, but practically they can just be stamped CHIMERA and be struck off from blood donations.

Magus 10 posted...
They might still present as fully male or fully female.

So? We call people by what we percieve, I'm sure there's plenty of transgenders who pass comfortably and never have to worry about this.

Labels aren't made up to oppress people, they exist to identify differences, if you have a label you don't like, the world has percieved something about you you don't like, suck it up and move on.
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Anti-245
12/08/18 7:37:52 PM
#40:


@Full_Throttle, do you ever get tire of this sctick you're pulling?
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Nichtcrawler X
12/08/18 7:39:59 PM
#41:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
Labels aren't made up to oppress people, they exist to identify differences, if you have a label you don't like, the world has percieved something about you you don't like, suck it up and move on.


They can still have an effect on people, especially if that label means the bearer is treated differently than they would have been otherwise.
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Noop_Noop
12/08/18 7:44:58 PM
#42:


No. I do not approve of compelling anyones speech.
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Lokarin
12/08/18 8:06:31 PM
#43:


Noop_Noop posted...
No. I do not approve of compelling anyones speech.


This. I'm for politeness and I'll do it to be polite, but forcing someone to speak in a way they don't want to... that's no good.
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Kyuubi4269
12/08/18 8:26:47 PM
#44:


Nichtcrawler X posted...
Kyuubi4269 posted...
Labels aren't made up to oppress people, they exist to identify differences, if you have a label you don't like, the world has percieved something about you you don't like, suck it up and move on.


They can still have an effect on people, especially if that label means the bearer is treated differently than they would have been otherwise.

Well yeah, that's applicable to everything.

What people normally do is hide facts they don't want to be labelled with, or live with the label and accept the natural reaction to that. It is not on the table to reveal yourself as under particular label then tell people to suspend disbelief and act like it's not there. That's not a sane thing to do and discredits other people who share the label, making it an even less desirable title.

The labels will always exist as it's how we process reality, so the only thing you can do is change the significance in public perception. If you deny reality, you gain the label of "lunatic".
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Nichtcrawler X
12/08/18 8:36:02 PM
#45:


Kyuubi4269 posted...
The labels will always exist as it's how we process reality, so the only thing you can do is change the significance in public perception. If you deny reality, you gain the label of "lunatic".


I will admit, what I was mainly referring to (from personal experience), has been much more accepted in recent years than transgenderism.

In retro-respect, once one's label has been publicly accepted, it is easy to work on acceptance for all. While in the middle of figuring out that label for oneself, anything else I would imagine is much more difficult.
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Official Teetotaller of PotD
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain!
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BlazingSpeed
12/08/18 10:33:56 PM
#46:


Muscles posted...
I would, but I don't think he's a bad person for not doing that, i'm more concerned with the fact he was fired over it, sjws can't stop ruining people's lives


I would not especially if there is no policy saying that I had to refer to someone a certain way. Plus, if your want me to respect your beliefs then you should respect mine.

That school is being anti Christian and if the school was being anti Muslim or anti Semitic this situation would have turned out quite different.
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_AdjI_
12/08/18 11:01:25 PM
#47:


Muscles posted...
_AdjI_ posted...
Muscles posted...
i'm more concerned with the fact he was fired over it,


Student: This is my name
Teacher: No it's not I'm calling you the name I want

I'm fine with firing that teacher. That's really not an appropriate way to treat a student (or anyone, really, and it's pretty disturbing how many people think they're taking some sort of moral high ground by acting that way), and that means he shouldn't be working as a teacher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_UbmaZQx74" data-time="


I can't be bothered to watch a video. I'm sure you can use words to make your point.
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Muscles
12/09/18 12:03:57 AM
#48:


I can use words, but Jordan Peterson says it better than I do
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
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_AdjI_
12/09/18 12:05:33 AM
#49:


I'm sure you can still paraphrase.
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Muscles
12/09/18 12:17:20 AM
#50:


He pretty much says that forcing people to use certain words is bad and leads to dark places for society, if you start to force people to certain words then governments are forcing you to think a certain way and it turns into 1984 pretty much

He says it a lot better than I do though
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Muscles
Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies
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