Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic 288 - Rastakhan is Rumbling

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think Saronite Chain Gang is the first nerfed card I actually had to think about before dusting. It's usually a no brainer.
---

I dust them all then craft them again later on if I need them. There is zero downside to doing this.
---

Man imagine if they like, did this months ago
---

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/hearthstone/22835076/arena-updates-december-19-2018

Holy shit theyre banning MCT in arena
---

So had a game against an odd warrior as cubelock. My deck took out giants because they are really bad vs hunter and such and my deck has changed to tech vs aggro over control so I dont really feel favored.

Anyway I discovered rin off of a stone hill and had been playing the seals while doing just enough to keep his board to a minimum and my life up.

On the turn I played the last seal the warrior played azalina. Keep in mind that his board is empty and I have a 6/6 and can drop azari first. The warrior still has both shield slams and brawls, and has already changed into doctor boom.

Well the warrior sees I have demonic project in my hand (also his) and uses it. He turns his azari into some random demon and gives me a lord juraxus (from a cube) and promptly concedes.
---

LiquidOshawott posted...

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/hearthstone/22835076/arena-updates-december-19-2018

Holy shit theyre banning MCT in arena

man I thought the constructed nerf announcements were good but this is premier
---

Just played an arena game where my opponent got around a dozen spells off of Witch's Cauldron. Played taunts in front of it and kept getting Spirit Echo so it took forever to get rid of entirely. Then, once I finally finished the last of them off, he turned five small leftover minions/totems into legendaries a turn or two later with The Storm Bringer when the only thing I had in play was a Kobold Apprentice.

It completely backfired. He got Sonya and Swamp King Dred, and I topdecked Shadow Madness. Got to play six Kobold Apprentices and cleared his entire board. I had no business winning that game.
---

LiquidOshawott posted...

Man imagine if they like, did this months ago

Mmm...I can see why most of these are being changed now.

Kingsbane has been around forever, but generally a fringe deck. Suddenly with the expansion it was the third most played deck on ladder, and Kingsbane matches tend to be a bit unfun, so they toned that down.

Shudderwock in the witchwood meta was...frustrating to play against maybe, but also a pretty high skill deck that was required a lot of good decision making during play, so I can see why it wasn't nerfed then. But with the new set, it gained multiple ways to gain armour, which meant that several streamers tried to set up "prison" scenarios where they would extend games for hours. There wasn't a good fix for this without changing multiple cards or breaking the entire combo. They chose to break the combo.

Odd Paladin has been good forever, but not quite this good. By far the highest winrate on ladder.

I dunno about the Druid nerfs. These were the two most polarizing cards, the cards that spike the winrate if they're in your opening hand. But on the other hand, I've thought Druid was pretty easy to beat except for Taunt Druid.
---

Climbed through rank 4 with a tempo evolve shudderwock shaman.

I don't have any of the overly cute legendaries like Krag'wa or Zentimo (haven't opened them. Obviously those are great with unstable evolution, but also have the potential to be a dead draw so not sure if they are correct?) It's pretty close to the old list but with Former Champ replacing Giggling Inventor, and a Totemic Smash or two (I experimented between 1-2 copies), and Elise The Trailblaizer and a Fire Elemental which are sketchier includes maybe, but I wanted to outvalue.

Saronite Chain Gang is still in there. Chain Gang on 4 into Thrall on 5 is still a very strong play. It's not amazing with Shudderwock anymore, but being guaranteed to summon a taunt with Shudderwock is still handy.

Former Champ is obviously the bigger money with Shudderwock. It's not quite the same as summoning a bunch of 6/6s, but a 6/6 and a couple 5/5s along with stuff like freezes and MCT is still a pretty nice board swing.

I had tar creepers at first, but switched to a Corpsetaker setup (w/ Al'Akir and Zilliax).

Overall...faced a bunch of hunters and Even Paladins and mostly won actually. I have lightning storm, and my endgame seemed to just be bigger than theirs (Hagatha, Thrall, Unstable Evo, Shudderwock, Al'Akir, Lich King, Elise Pack. Also just......Fungalmancer; none of those decks run Fungalmancer, and I do and the card is kinda good). I did lose to a secret hunter that played double secretkeeper, prompting me to lightning storm on turn 3, double low roll, attack after the lightning storm and trigger a venomstrike trap, and proceed to get blown out by them having all the SmORC. Did also beat an Odd Rogue though, so not thaaat vulnerable to smORC.

Anyway, obviously still changing cards, but this is the state it was in when I stopped last night:

Tempo Evolve
Class: Shaman
Format: Standard
Year of the Raven
1x (1) Earth Shock
2x (1) Fire Fly
1x (1) Glacial Shard
1x (1) Totemic Smash
2x (1) Unstable Evolution
1x (2) Prince Keleseth
2x (3) Lightning Storm
2x (3) Mind Control Tech
2x (4) Corpsetaker
2x (4) Hex
2x (4) Saronite Chain Gang
1x (5) Elise the Trailblazer
2x (5) Former Champ
2x (5) Fungalmancer
1x (5) Thrall, Deathseer
1x (5) Zilliax
1x (6) Fire Elemental
1x (8) Al'Akir the Windlord
1x (8) Hagatha the Witch
1x (8) The Lich King
1x (9) Shudderwock
AAECAaoIDCC9Af8Fl8ECz8cCws4C688CnOICp+
4C7/cCm/8CoIADCfUE3gX+BevCApvLAtHhApboAt/pAquMAwA=

To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
---

I've been playing my minions-only Elemental Mage all afternoon because its worst matchups all got destroyed by the nerfs and Hearthstone is fun again. I decided to tech in Chief Inspector, because I was seeing nothing but Hunter, then queued up against everything else for about an hour and a half. Still went on a massive winning streak from Rank 10 to Rank 7 before hitting a Hunter, and I got my hopes up. Then he Turn 1 coin-Keleseth'd.

I lost.

However, next match was against another Hunter and it was the spell variant. Tar Creeper into Tol'vir Stoneshaper stops Spell Hunters dead in their tracks, because all they can generate are 4/2's, 2/4's, and 3/3's. After my Turn 7, his board was completely empty and I still had a 6/6 and a 3/3. His only play was to cast 3 secrets. Then the most "Amazing" topdeck took place.

"Well fought. I concede."
---

Im wondering if they might retire Baku and Genn early and send both into HOF next year

Theyre just too centralizing for a full two year meta
---

I'm already sad about Quests going away :(
---

Here's a fun warlock deck for people to try. Somehow I've had great results with it so far.

Suilock
Class: Warlock
Format: Wild

1x (1) Dark Pact
1x (1) Flame Imp
1x (1) Kobold Librarian
1x (1) Power Overwhelming
1x (1) Soulfire
1x (2) Darkbomb
1x (2) Mad Bomber
1x (2) Spirit Bomb
1x (2) Vulgar Homunculus
1x (2) Wrathguard
1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard
1x (3) Chittering Tunneler
1x (3) Duskbat
1x (3) Ornery Tortoise
1x (3) Spreading Madness
1x (3) Unlicensed Apothecary
1x (4) Ancient Shade
1x (4) Hooked Reaver
1x (4) Kazakus
1x (4) Pit Lord
1x (5) Antique Healbot
1x (5) Bittertide Hydra
1x (5) Bomb Squad
1x (5) Doomguard
1x (5) Madder Bomber
1x (5) Seaforium Bomber
1x (6) Drakonid Crusher
1x (6) Reno Jackson
2x (20) Molten Giant

AAEBAf0GHPcE+gWPBs4GzgfCCPUPihCtENERvxTDFoUX+
Ua4rALYuwKWvQL4vwKvwgKTxwLx0ALy0AL40AL90AK47gLx9wLx/ALkigMB3AoA
---

Ahh, doubles in a Reno deck. A player after my own heart.
---

Wow, what even is that deck?

At first I was like "oh it's wild Renolock, ok with two molten giants sure."

Then I took a closer look, couldn't find the Mountain giant, got confused, and then started noticing the other cards.

Brann Bronzebeard on turn 3, into Pit Lord/Ancient Shade on turn 4. Wow, that...certainly is a curve.
---

LMAO. As long you don't accidentally Hydra into Mad/Madder Bomber/Spreading Madness you should be good.

You can kind of compete the mid-game with cards like Pit Lord, Ancient Shade, Unlicensed Apothecary. Although generally you just want to go face with those sorts of cards, remove a couple of their threats with the few spells while tapping every now and then, then once they've hit you down play a Molten Giant into Reno turn. Healbot seems to be a necessary backup in case you don't draw Reno or either giant.

I'm sure someone could make a much, much more effective version of this deck but I doubt it would be as stupidly fun.
---

GANON1025 posted...

I'm already sad about Quests going away :(

I'm not. Because it means quest rogue is dead. It also severely hurts APM priest because they no longer get their full heal for basically nothing. It also stops warriors being able to build extremely greedy decks with the quest as a crutch.
---

Going to miss finding a way to make Quest Mage work differently every time a new expansion comes out.
---

No Radiant Elemental means APM Priest is dead after rotation anyway
---

But I like my good friend Galvadon
---

I was watching a reynad video where he's telling a story about how he met some dude on a plane who was doing some work for a videogame. Turns out the guy was going to the game awards and was one of the team behind Celeste.

>.>
---

GANON1025 posted...

But I like my good friend Galvadon

Funny thing is, people make fun of Galvadon, but most of the quest rewards are around that power level. Queen Carnassa? Megafin? Nether Portal? Yeah ok.

It's really just Crystal Core, and to some extent Sulfuras that completely warp the game after they are played. (And I guess kind-of Barnabus as well, he's just never been particularly meta).
---

Anotha one:

Super Slow
Class: Paladin
Format: Wild

1x (1) Getaway Kodo
1x (1) Hidden Wisdom
1x (1) Humility
1x (1) Repentance
1x (1) Righteous Protector
1x (2) Annoy-o-Tron
1x (2) Doomsayer
1x (2) Equality
1x (2) Flash of Light
1x (2) Friendly Bartender
1x (2) Grimestreet Outfitter
1x (2) Lesser Pearl Spellstone
1x (3) Aldor Peacekeeper
1x (3) Benevolent Djinn
1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard
1x (3) High Priest Thekal
1x (3) Time Out!
1x (4) Annoy-o-Module
1x (4) Consecration
1x (4) Hammer of Wrath
1x (4) Keeper of Uldaman
1x (4) Truesilver Champion
1x (5) Prince Malchezaar
1x (5) Psych-o-Tron
1x (5) Rotten Applebaum
1x (5) Shrink Ray
1x (5) Solemn Vigil
1x (6) Ivory Knight
1x (6) Reno Jackson
1x (6) Spikeridged Steed

AAEBAaToAh6KAegB+gHcA/QFzwbWBo8JhRDiEcMWyRaFF/6sAo+
0AqC3Ave8Aou9AtK/AojHAuPLAvbSArLpAsXzAoT8AsD9AuH+As+GA+yGA86HAwAA
---

metroid composite posted...

It's really just Crystal Core, and to some extent Sulfuras that completely warp the game after they are played. (And I guess kind-of Barnabus as well, he's just never been particularly meta).

You're forgetting the mage quest.
---

The thing is the quests and the death knights are the only things preventing a complete odd warrior domination meta
---

VeryInsane posted...

The thing is the quests and the death knights are the only things preventing a complete odd warrior domination meta

I mean Mech'a'thun and APM priest would still counter Odd Warrior. But yeah, that sounds like a miserable meta, much worse than the one we currently have.
---

APM is dead at rotation. Radiant Ele is Mammoth

I think Druid and Warrior will be the only Mechathun combos around too? Cataclysm rotates and a lot of those Priest cards rotate too. Warrior may also be screwed if, say, Maly gets Hall of Fame'd
---

I'm watching these top 100 legend players stream, and...they're facing a decent number of Druids running Wild Growth all things considered. (Despite all the Reddit memes of druid being literally unsalvageable post-nerf).

I mean, it's not the most common class (which based on what I'm watching at high legend is...Rogue). It's not second or third either. But seeing more Druids than Mages/Warriors/Shamans.
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsRzTzxh5ho" data-time="&start=0

When I saw this last night, I thought of Ulti. Edit: Jump to 6:53. Apparently GFaqs won't do it with the plug-in.
---

Who feels like going on a roller-coaster of emotion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9nr4r4bcRE" data-time="&start=586
---

Odd Taunt seems pretty solid right now, especially with the Oondasta package
---

Odd Quest Warrior is in fact one of...9 decks that hsReplay currently categorizes as "tier 1" (along with Odd Paladin, Odd Rogue, Odd Warrior with dragons instead of quest, Even Paladin, Even Shaman, and three different hunter decks).
---

metroid composite posted...

Odd Quest Warrior is in fact one of...9 decks that hsReplay currently categorizes as "tier 1" (along with Odd Paladin, Odd Rogue, Odd Warrior with dragons instead of quest, Even Paladin, Even Shaman, and three different hunter decks).

I saw that. Kinda crazy. In a good way.

Had no idea Tempo Rogue was t4 until I looked. Felt stronker than that.

Anyone playing Even Pally? It was my main deck pre-CtA nerf, but I don't have the Glass Knight and am wondering how integral to the deck it is. I've got ~12k dust, but I'm stingy as hell with it.
---

Dead Man's Hand vs Academic Espionage is a nightmarishly long matchup considering that I encounter it frequently.
---

Glass Knights just a good four drop and an additional Corpsetaker buffer. Hes not necessary for success but if you want a replace you can try Chain Gang or Spellbreaker
---

SaintAkira7 posted...

Had no idea Tempo Rogue was t4 until I looked. Felt stronker than that.

I mean, hsReplay aggregates lots of results from people as far down as rank 20, so...it might be that tempo rogue is just a higher skill deck that a lot of people seriously misplay.

Like...if you listen to hsReplay, the only playable Druid deck is Spiteful Druid, but the Druid decks people have actually taken to top 25 legend post-nerfs are like...Malygos Druid and Togwaggle Druid.
---

metroid composite posted...

SaintAkira7 posted...

Had no idea Tempo Rogue was t4 until I looked. Felt stronker than that.

I mean, hsReplay aggregates lots of results from people as far down as rank 20, so...it might be that tempo rogue is just a higher skill deck that a lot of people seriously misplay.

Like...if you listen to hsReplay, the only playable Druid deck is Spiteful Druid, but the Druid decks people have actually taken to top 25 legend post-nerfs are like...Malygos Druid and Togwaggle Druid.

Right. And that's kind of hs replay in a nutshell; lots of good information that you kind of have to read between the lines to glean the "true" information. Like, for instance, played win rate is a stat that can vary wildly, but you have to take into account the specific card, the deck it's in, and when you'd be playing at theoretical optimal times and when you're just playing said specific card as just a Hail Mary. Mulligan win rates, drawn win rates...All have to be taken in context to be of any value.

Anyways, enough ramblings from me for a bit, I gotta wrap the kid's presents.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all I'm gonna be up all night anyway XD.
---

I play a lot of Tempo Rogue. I don't think it's a strong deck right now.
---

KokoroAkechi posted...

I play a lot of Tempo Rogue. I don't think it's a strong deck right now.

So you'd agree with t4? I'm not in anyway asserting that that's not the case, just asking for your impressions.
---

I'd say t4 might be right. Its nowhere near t2 right now. I will say that part of it might be simply I don't think the deck is as easy to play as odd rogue. But tempo rogue is ironically just either too slow (like versions with spirit of the shark) or the pirate version (which Is what I run) just uses too many bad cards.
---

KokoroAkechi posted...

like versions with spirit of the shark

Yeah that's the one I'm running. When it all comes together, it's awesome and feels good to pilot, but on the other hand it can just feel like you're floundering around when you don't get the pieces you need.

Put it together cause I'd tired of Odd Rogue, but that may be a better bet to get any climbing done.

You're not liking the Pirate version?
---

Id imagine some Deathrattle build would be decent, especially with Raiding Party
---

Its still fucking dumb that coin enables combo. Coin>vilespine is dumb as fuck and unfair.

I mean, going second is normally a net downside. Coin doing a little bit extra for Rogue/Mage means that maybe, maybe going second isn't a total downside for them. I'd like all the classes to benefit about that much from the coin, actually.
---

metroid composite posted...

I mean, going second is normally a net downside. Coin doing a little bit extra for Rogue/Mage means that maybe, maybe going second isn't a total downside for them. I'd like all the classes to benefit about that much from the coin, actually.

I think specific cases like Vilespine are too strong with coin. Combo specifically is especially disgusting with coin. Its taking a usual downside (having to play a card beforehand to get the benefit) and literally pulling a 180 and turning it into a benefit.